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Fantasy Jellal vs Azuma

Who Wins?


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sharkai

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You don't have to be a crazy fangirl to figure out what is canon or not. The Zentopia incident is the Starry Night arc. It's mentioned in the manga, and therefore it's definitely canon. Btw, Zentopia is a church. They were tricked by Oracion Seis to help out in wiping out the Celestial Spirit Mages so they could use real nightmare. Fairy Tail stopped them. There's no reason for Zentopia to go around offing Celestial Spirit Mages by themselves, and infact....they ended up being friends with FT by the end of it. The other fillers may or may not be canon, but since it isn't mentioned in the manga and Mashima probably doesn't even remember them....It probably isn't. But Mashima basically wrote the Starry Night arc, and more importantly....It's referenced in the manga.
lets look at in from manga readers point of view. alverzec arc is going on, someone mentions Zentopia incident. what would a normal manga reader do. does he or she spent next 5 hours watching the filler arc? or do they just ignore it because they know its not important to understand anything in fairy tail?

Cobra and Max aren't Gildarts tier. Erza is not Gildarts tier.
not max. he is natsu tier. cobra only. yes he is a gildarts tier. which tier can stomp erza like that.

Nearly every pre-timeskip villain can give Natsu the same difficulty that Max did. Some of them even did better. Max didn't do anything to Natsu that someone like Erigor couldn't have.
erigor is way back. this max would stomp him. midnight is basically max plus tier only

Jacob is trash in stats, sure, but Historia of God Serena can deal with Dorma Anim.
I am joking. there is huge power creep. pretty sure nienhart can one shot dorma anim without magic. but just looking at the manga, that doesnt seems possible.

I suppose Natsu could vaporize some of the ocean. Just not enough to matter.
but he didnt evaporize anything. even though mercophobia only raised the ocean, he didnt make it stronger. we saw zero steam, from a guy who can melt ponds by just standing. the durablity seems different

The point of deus sema is to hit you with a rock from space. She is using magic to throw the rock. Nowhere in any of that is it said that Irene is using her magic to make the rock super hard. Irene herself treats the toughness of the rock as if it's an actual meteor. She says her own scales are harder to cut than it.
but it makes no sense. basically laxus hypes a move. and lucy kicks it away. irene has to make it more durable just like mercophobia was doing. thus irene hyped move would be even a challenge for august tier characters. otherwise there is no point of hyping it. especially we know mages below who can causally handle it like brandish and dimeria

it would be like mercophobia lifting the entire ocean and the we see Moses sorry i mean Natsu walking through not even slightly wet because he atleast could evaporate all water 4 feet around him

Dragons aren't immune to magic.
name any physical attack or projectile which harms dragons

Yeah, Natsu can burn Zeref's black magic. Because Zeref's black magic is tangible. Midnight's refractor isn't. It just warps stuff.
we dont know zeref magic is tangible or midnight refractor is not. for all you know midnight refractor would be treated the same way infront of natsu. maybe magic itself is tangible. mishma doesnt go in such detail. we have seen fire freeze. water crash. people eating shadows somehow
 

Seven777

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but it makes no sense. basically laxus hypes a move. and lucy kicks it away. irene has to make it more durable just like mercophobia was doing. thus irene hyped move would be even a challenge for august tier characters. otherwise there is no point of hyping it. especially we know mages below who can causally handle it like brandish and dimeria
Sense? Why are you looking for sense? This is how Mashima writes his manga. Shiki, Natsu and Haru combined are weaker than Genesis, yet Shiki can still bust his Sema alone, Erza breaking Eileen's is no different. How Mashima see's these meteors and how you see them are clearly very different.
 

sharkai

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Sense? Why are you looking for sense? This is how Mashima writes his manga. Shiki, Natsu and Haru combined are weaker than Genesis, yet Shiki can still bust his Sema alone, Erza breaking Eileen's is no different. How Mashima see's these meteors and how you see them are clearly very different.
I dont read other stuffs.
I dont know. Mishma seems to portray it as impressive. You people seems to think it's something everyone can do. Same with gray breaking invel armor.
Mishma likes his main characters. I err on that side

If I buy @Axiomus explanation it just means brandish and dimeria casually can handle dues sema.
Since I know how underestimated erza is, I am more likely to buy normal lucy in normal circumstances flicking laxus most strongest move aside casually than dues sema being handled that easily.
And since we already seen natsu fire can get hotter. Mercuphobia's water can somehow have even higher boiling point. I dont see why only irene (erza opponents gets short end of the stick)
 

Seven777

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I dont read other stuffs.
I dont know. Mishma seems to portray it as impressive. You people seems to think it's something everyone can do. Same with gray breaking invel armor.
Mishma likes his main characters. I err on that side

If I buy @Axiomus explanation it just means brandish and dimeria casually can handle dues sema.
Since I know how underestimated erza is, I am more likely to buy normal lucy in normal circumstances flicking laxus most strongest move aside casually than dues sema being handled that easily.
And since we already seen natsu fire can get hotter. Mercuphobia's water can somehow have even higher boiling point. I dont see why only irene (erza opponents gets short end of the stick)
Yeah, he does, he portrays it as impressive, unbelievable, impossible, incredible, he makes it seem like not everyone can do it, and all that is exactly what he did when Shiki, the weakest of the three by far, destroyed Sema when the guy who cast it is stronger than all three combined. Hype moves, hype spriggans, it's just Mashima building tension.

As for Axiomus's explanation, maybe it's right, maybe it's not, Mashima didn't explain it likely because Mashima doesn't care himself, he just made Erza do it for the same reason he made Shiki do it, because it's cool.
Kind of like Wendy flicking Dimaria's strongest move aside? Yeah, because that happened, we both know that this shit is nothing out of the ordinary, and far from exclusive to Erza, so let's not pretend her opponents get the short end of the stick.
As for Merc, Gray can freeze his water, Natsu can burn it.
 

sharkai

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Yeah, he does, he portrays it as impressive, unbelievable, impossible, incredible, he makes it seem like not everyone can do it, and all that is exactly what he did when Shiki, the weakest of the three by far, destroyed Sema when the guy who cast it is stronger than all three combined. Hype moves, hype spriggans, it's just Mashima building tension.

As for Axiomus's explanation, maybe it's right, maybe it's not, Mashima didn't explain it likely because Mashima doesn't care himself, he just made Erza do it for the same reason he made Shiki do it, because it's cool.
Kind of like Wendy flicking Dimaria's strongest move aside? Yeah, because that happened, we both know that this shit is nothing out of the ordinary, and far from exclusive to Erza, so let's not pretend her opponents get the short end of the stick.
As for Merc, Gray can freeze his water, Natsu can burn it.
Its cool because its impossible. So I am safe here

Yes, mostly short end of the stick is exclusive for erza, maybe sometime for gray. That is why I am not accepting it. Lets give that short end to gildarts or laxus or df natsu after that I will talk

I think gray froze it for like a second before it went back no? I dont remember natsu doing anything

Look my logic is same. I am not gonna give irene weak move for no reason.
First give one to aconologia, gildarts, and all hyped laxus opponents after that i am game, not before.

The stronger the opponent is the harder it is over come there move.
Zancrow can't burn bluenote black hole.
Kagura cant cut jellal sema up
Bluenote cant do sh!t to irene sema nor can brandish nor can dimeria.
If dragon god has a sema. Irene cant do shit to it even with her body.
Sema does not have more weakness than any other move.

This then ties with dragon being above their base. So human aconologia shouldn't be able to knock dragon aconologia out his dragon form. Thus aconologia vs igneel makes sense.

All this for a small price that erza might have tapped into pof (i know impossible right) and was hitting well above she could possibly hit
 

Axiomus

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lets look at in from manga readers point of view. alverzec arc is going on, someone mentions Zentopia incident. what would a normal manga reader do. does he or she spent next 5 hours watching the filler arc? or do they just ignore it because they know its not important to understand anything in fairy tail?



not max. he is natsu tier. cobra only. yes he is a gildarts tier. which tier can stomp erza like that.



erigor is way back. this max would stomp him. midnight is basically max plus tier only



I am joking. there is huge power creep. pretty sure nienhart can one shot dorma anim without magic. but just looking at the manga, that doesnt seems possible.



but he didnt evaporize anything. even though mercophobia only raised the ocean, he didnt make it stronger. we saw zero steam, from a guy who can melt ponds by just standing. the durablity seems different



but it makes no sense. basically laxus hypes a move. and lucy kicks it away. irene has to make it more durable just like mercophobia was doing. thus irene hyped move would be even a challenge for august tier characters. otherwise there is no point of hyping it. especially we know mages below who can causally handle it like brandish and dimeria

it would be like mercophobia lifting the entire ocean and the we see Moses sorry i mean Natsu walking through not even slightly wet because he atleast could evaporate all water 4 feet around him



name any physical attack or projectile which harms dragons



we dont know zeref magic is tangible or midnight refractor is not. for all you know midnight refractor would be treated the same way infront of natsu. maybe magic itself is tangible. mishma doesnt go in such detail. we have seen fire freeze. water crash. people eating shadows somehow
Whether or not a Manga only reader ignores Zentopia, doesn't really change the fact it's canon.

Cobra didn't easily beat Erza. They were fighting evenly until Cobra got the upper hand.

Max wasn't Natsu tier. Pretty much any villain pre timeskip could have done to Natsu what Max did. Fodder like Fukuro or Erigor could do to Natsu what Max did. It doesn't put them on the same tier.

Natsu didn't even use flames against the ocean Mercphobia lifted. And again, Mercphobia was using magic to prevent changes to his water after Gray froze one of his water pillars. That's why Gray couldn't freeze the whirlpool later on.

As far as I can tell, Irene isn't using magic to make her meteor rock harder to cut than a actual meteor rock. She treats the durability of the rock as if it's actually a meteor. It wouldn't even be helpful, as the point of Sema is to have the rock explode on impact.

Dragons aren't immune to magic. Whether or not physical attacks or projectiles can harm them is irrelevant. The reason dragons can't be harmed without dragon slaying magic is because their scales are too tough, not because they have immunity to magic. Their scales are simply tougher to cut than a meteor.

Zeref's black magic is tangible because you can literally touch it. And it's effected by heat. Refractor is magic that warps stuff. It has no physical substance by itself.
 

Seven777

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Its cool because its impossible. So I am safe here

Yes, mostly short end of the stick is exclusive for erza, maybe sometime for gray. That is why I am not accepting it. Lets give that short end to gildarts or laxus or df natsu after that I will talk

I think gray froze it for like a second before it went back no? I dont remember natsu doing anything

Look my logic is same. I am not gonna give irene weak move for no reason.
First give one to aconologia, gildarts, and all hyped laxus opponents after that i am game, not before.

The stronger the opponent is the harder it is over come there move.
Zancrow can't burn bluenote black hole.
Kagura cant cut jellal sema up
Bluenote cant do sh!t to irene sema nor can brandish nor can dimeria.
If dragon god has a sema. Irene cant do shit to it even with her body.
Sema does not have more weakness than any other move.

This then ties with dragon being above their base. So human aconologia shouldn't be able to knock dragon aconologia out his dragon form. Thus aconologia vs igneel makes sense.

All this for a small price that erza might have tapped into pof (i know impossible right) and was hitting well above she could possibly hit
Yep, exactly. Just like with Shiki .

Wtf are you talking about? How are Erzas opponents given the short end of the stick? And why the hell would we give it to Laxus? Laxus already gets it far more than Erza does. Wahl? Mediocre. Tempester? Mediocre. Raven Tail? Fodder. The only opponents of Laxus that the fan base considers strong are Hades and Jura, because literally everything in the manga told us they were. So get off this “Erza gets the short end” bullshit, most of her opponents are considered powerful.

No. Gray froze it completely, then Merc turned it back into water. Just another example of this shit happening to someone other than Erzas opponents.

Your logic isn’t Mashimas logic. Mashimas logic is that characters with strength less than a third of their opponents strength, can still bust their meteors. It’s all for the sake of hype.

There’s no reason to pay a price at all, because it’s all rife throughout the manga. And because Eileen was clearly and undeniably portrayed as Erzas complete superior
 

grey matter

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Cobra didn't easily beat Erza. They were fighting evenly until Cobra got the upper hand.
It wasn't some stomp or something. But Cobra was mid-high diffing her, wasn't an even fight.

I don't see the issue here at all. Cobra's sound magic and mind read is too good for close combat fights.

x784 Cobra was already able to deal with x784 Erza's fastest armour. So, why can't Cobra post power up, deal with essentially x784 Erza, with mid diff?

Also @sharkai
x784 Gildarts would low diff x784 Erza, if not outright one shot if he's serious. The gap was far too high in the beginning, Erza herself admitted it to Lucy. So Cobra mid-high diffing Erza, with a magic that is specifically great in cqc, doesn't make him Gildarts tier. Gildarts is fast enough for Cobra to not keep up with mind read. And even if he can counter some physical attacks from Gildarts using mind read, Gildarts can just blast him with a town sized crash attack that will destroy him regardless.
 

sharkai

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It wasn't some stomp or something. But Cobra was mid-high diffing her, wasn't an even fight.

I don't see the issue here at all. Cobra's sound magic and mind read is too good for close combat fights.

x784 Cobra was already able to deal with x784 Erza's fastest armour. So, why can't Cobra post power up, deal with essentially x784 Erza, with mid diff?

Also @sharkai
x784 Gildarts would low diff x784 Erza, if not outright one shot if he's serious. The gap was far too high in the beginning, Erza herself admitted it to Lucy. So Cobra mid-high diffing Erza, with a magic that is specifically great in cqc, doesn't make him Gildarts tier. Gildarts is fast enough for Cobra to not keep up with mind read. And even if he can counter some physical attacks from Gildarts using mind read, Gildarts can just blast him with a town sized crash attack that will destroy him regardless.
Gildarts tier get retconed. I am talking about tenrou arc. Bluenote ain't one shotting erza. Just like gmg jura isn't.
Cobra as far as I remember was stomping erza before she pulled out that filler hammer.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Yep, exactly. Just like with Shiki .

Wtf are you talking about? How are Erzas opponents given the short end of the stick? And why the hell would we give it to Laxus? Laxus already gets it far more than Erza does. Wahl? Mediocre. Tempester? Mediocre. Raven Tail? Fodder. The only opponents of Laxus that the fan base considers strong are Hades and Jura, because literally everything in the manga told us they were. So get off this “Erza gets the short end” bullshit, most of her opponents are considered powerful.

No. Gray froze it completely, then Merc turned it back into water. Just another example of this shit happening to someone other than Erzas opponents.

Your logic isn’t Mashimas logic. Mashimas logic is that characters with strength less than a third of their opponents strength, can still bust their meteors. It’s all for the sake of hype.

There’s no reason to pay a price at all, because it’s all rife throughout the manga. And because Eileen was clearly and undeniably portrayed as Erzas complete superior
Look its only hype if its impossible. That is what mishma thinks. Otherwise its not hype or hype failed to live upto to where ever it lived up to.

Everything in the manga also told us irene is hella strong. Sadly now you want me to believe that her strongest move can casually be handled by people who are scared of her

Lol. Laxus strongest oppenent was Jura. Just erza strongest opponent was irene. I still haven't seen you tell others that lyon can causally stop jura strongest attacks.
Exception is being produced for erza strongest opponent only. Irene strongest move have this weakness lol

Yes gray froze that water like he froze ajeel. Same can be said for dues sema. Gildarts crashes one meter of that. And then irene makes its stronger.

And zeref was portrayed to have infinite magic. That didn't stop natsu
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Whether or not a Manga only reader ignores Zentopia, doesn't really change the fact it's canon.

Cobra didn't easily beat Erza. They were fighting evenly until Cobra got the upper hand.

Max wasn't Natsu tier. Pretty much any villain pre timeskip could have done to Natsu what Max did. Fodder like Fukuro or Erigor could do to Natsu what Max did. It doesn't put them on the same tier.

Natsu didn't even use flames against the ocean Mercphobia lifted. And again, Mercphobia was using magic to prevent changes to his water after Gray froze one of his water pillars. That's why Gray couldn't freeze the whirlpool later on.

As far as I can tell, Irene isn't using magic to make her meteor rock harder to cut than a actual meteor rock. She treats the durability of the rock as if it's actually a meteor. It wouldn't even be helpful, as the point of Sema is to have the rock explode on impact.

Dragons aren't immune to magic. Whether or not physical attacks or projectiles can harm them is irrelevant. The reason dragons can't be harmed without dragon slaying magic is because their scales are too tough, not because they have immunity to magic. Their scales are simply tougher to cut than a meteor.

Zeref's black magic is tangible because you can literally touch it. And it's effected by heat. Refractor is magic that warps stuff. It has no physical substance by itself.
Because there is a sequence
Manga doesn't have it. Unless it fills some gaps it isnt cannon.

Cobra had an upper hand throughout. Atleast till erza produced that filler hammer which she never pulls again in the manga

As I said max is reasonably close to tenrou natsu. Not beginning of series natsu. Your definition of tier is yours

Why wouldnt irene do the same. Especially since meteor are nothing for august tier

We dont know anything. We have never seen a physical attack harm dragons which aren't ds magic

And shadow is. How does gajeel eats it
 

Seven777

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Look its only hype if its impossible. That is what mishma thinks. Otherwise its not hype or hype failed to live upto to where ever it lived up to.

Everything in the manga also told us irene is hella strong. Sadly now you want me to believe that her strongest move can casually be handled by people who are scared of her

Lol. Laxus strongest oppenent was Jura. Just erza strongest opponent was irene. I still haven't seen you tell others that lyon can causally stop jura strongest attacks.
Exception is being produced for erza strongest opponent only. Irene strongest move have this weakness lol

Yes gray froze that water like he froze ajeel. Same can be said for dues sema. Gildarts crashes one meter of that. And then irene makes its stronger.

And zeref was portrayed to have infinite magic. That didn't stop natsu
Oh it's always "failed to live up to" with Mashima, at least in his later shit. So yep, it was impossible, it just turns out that "impossible" ain't all that impressive.

Casually? Who said anything about casually? Weaker people can do it, Erza proves this because we know she's weaker. Just like Shiki.

Why would they? Even Laxus didn't stop Jura's strongest attack.
The only exception being produced for Erza is by you. This shit happens all the time, I've given you examples of it happening, and yet you still whine about this bullshit. Even in your little "Imagine Lucy flicking away Laxus' strongest attack" example, at the end of the day that's exactly what Wendy did to Dimaria. Nothing about it is exclusive to Erza, her ally in that fight literally did it in her last fight lol.

Yes, he froze the water like he froze Ajeel. Just goes to show, it's easy. Top tier god character that makes Eileen look like garbage, had his attack frozen by a technique weaker than the one Gray used on Ajeel. That's just the way the manga works, you're better off accepting it now.
And no, as far as we've seen Eileen cannot reform Sema, plus Gildarts shatters it entirely with greater ease than Erza, because he is stronger than her.

Yep, but Zeref was still portrayed on Natsu's tier. Long before his lost, Natsu was slugging it out evenly with Zeref, and even when it came to them clashing their magical attacks, Demo Fist vs Darkness Blade boosted by infinite magic, it was still never even hinted that Zeref would have the advantage. They were already equals from the outset, unlike Eileen and Erza.
That aside, Erza isn't Natsu, or anywhere close to him.
 

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That aside, Erza isn't Natsu, or anywhere close to him.
Sure she is not :

In Alvaress, she stopped a Berserker version of Natsu + Grey with her bare hands. With his control lost, I can see that as an enhanced FDK here + Grey using equal raw power.

Erza is way faster than Natsu in battle. She blitz Laxus in their last encounter two times and he couldn't even react :
- In counterattack :
- Front Attack with some meters :

In the past, when wrecked and exausted by her Ikaruga's fight, she could blitz Jellal (50%) the same way as he couldn't react as well, like current Laxus :

In the last chapter, she could react as fast as Suzaku himself and lost due to the weakness of her sword. Her speed could match him : even Suzaku is surprise that she was able to react to his blade's speed :

In counterpart, Natsu can't react two times in front of Suzaku. The first time, only Erza reacts and protects the group. The second time, well, Natsu was cut in half in front attack just like Erza did with her dual swords to Laxus :


It's good having raw power but speed can counterpart raw power as well. I still don't see Natsu that far away....
 

Seven777

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Sure she is not :

In Alvaress, she stopped a Berserker version of Natsu + Grey with her bare hands. With his control lost, I can see that as an enhanced FDK here + Grey using equal raw power.

Erza is way faster than Natsu in battle. She blitz Laxus in their last encounter two times and he couldn't even react :
- In counterattack :
- Front Attack with some meters :

In the past, when wrecked and exausted by her Ikaruga's fight, she could blitz Jellal (50%) the same way as he couldn't react as well, like current Laxus :

In the last chapter, she could react as fast as Suzaku himself and lost due to the weakness of her sword. Her speed could match him : even Suzaku is surprise that she was able to react to his blade's speed :

In counterpart, Natsu can't react two times in front of Suzaku. The first time, only Erza reacts and protects the group. The second time, well, Natsu was cut in half in front attack just like Erza did with her dual swords to Laxus :


It's good having raw power but speed can counterpart raw power as well. I still don't see Natsu that far away....
Ok? And Gray took a Berserker Natsu punches to his face instead of his hands, and received less damage from it....

Base Natsu, sure.

Why should I care about preskip?

Why should I care about this when Natsu killed Aldaron? Blitzing base Natsu is like blitzing Gajeel, mediocre.

Natsu is far away, far, far, far away. He could low diff Erza and Laxus at the same time. He could probably low diff Erza, Laxus and Suzaku at the same time. Don't mistake Natsu jobbing in Base to what Natsu is actually capable of. Jobbing Base Natsu is just a slightly better Gajeel, basically trash.
 

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Natsu is far away, far, far, far away. He could low diff Erza and Laxus at the same time. He could probably low diff Erza, Laxus and Suzaku at the same time. Don't mistake Natsu jobbing in Base to what Natsu is actually capable of. Jobbing Base Natsu is just a slightly better Gajeel, basically trash.
I think you overestimate him. Low diff Erza + Laxus + Suzaku ? For me it sounds like the "Natsu Prime 1 Million" people said.
Laxus and Erza are monsters, not warms for Natsu.
I think the three, even in 1vs1, are more than a challenge. Especially when Suzaku no diff him in a blink while jobbing (we will see his real strength vs Selene ).

Natsu killed Aldaron
No he didn't. He killed a seed far weakened by team-up and let Aldoron's body explode in chain reactions as he couldn't control the overflow inside his growing, as the seeds and orbs were the locks to contain it. Aldoron seed is not Aldoron God Dragon, he is a Guardian, embodiement of his brain so, control Dragon's actions. A seed is not a tree. It's like saiying a human commander in charge of a Nuclear Submarine is the Submarine itself. If you kill the commander, then the submarine can't move and act. But the human commander is nowhere close to Submarine's stats by himself. The Seeds are close to the Priestesses in powers. Aldoron Seed is perhaps the same for Aldoron Dragon as Youko or Mimi to Selene.

 
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Seven777

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I think you overestimate him. Low diff Erza + Laxus + Suzaku ? For me it sounds like the "Natsu Prime 1 Million" people said.
Laxus and Erza are monsters, not warms to Natsu.
I think the three, even in 1vs1, are more than a challenge. Especially when Suzaku no diff him in a blink while jobbing (we will see his real strength vs Selene ).



No he didn't. He killed a seed far weakened by team-up and let Aldoron's body explode in chain reactions as he couldn't control the overflow inside his growing, as the seeds and orbs were the locks to contain it. Aldoron seed is not Aldoron God Dragon, he is a Guardian, embodiement of his brain so, control Dragon's actions. A seed is not a tree. It's like saiying a human commander in charge of a Nuclear Submarine is the Submarine itself. If you kill the commander, then the submarine can't move and act. But the human commander is nowhere close to Submarine's stats by himself. The Seeds are close to the Priestesses in powers. Aldoron Seed is perhaps the same for Aldoron Dragon as Youko or Mimi to Selene.

He doesn't need to be prime 1 million to low diff them, he just need to nuke them with the attack that killed Aldaron. Maybe one of them will escape if they're quick and aren't starting the fight too close together, idk, Suzaku is still up in the air, doesn't change the fact that Erza is basically trash to him.

Yeah, I know all that. Natsu still makes every good character in the manga look like trash. God Seed being weakened is all well and good, but it still puts Natsu head and shoulders above Erza. Even without the God Seed feat, erasing Zeref puts him head and shoulders above Erza. Not to mention him soloing infinite magic FH Zeref, which is what I was actually talking about when you quoted me. But any way you slice it, Erza is in no way comparable to Natsu, there is one and only one possible way for Erza to beat Natsu, and that's for him not to take her seriously.
 

grey matter

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Ok? And Gray took a Berserker Natsu punches to his face instead of his hands, and received less damage from it....

Base Natsu, sure.

Why should I care about preskip?

Why should I care about this when Natsu killed Aldaron? Blitzing base Natsu is like blitzing Gajeel, mediocre.

Natsu is far away, far, far, far away. He could low diff Erza and Laxus at the same time. He could probably low diff Erza, Laxus and Suzaku at the same time. Don't mistake Natsu jobbing in Base to what Natsu is actually capable of. Jobbing Base Natsu is just a slightly better Gajeel, basically trash.
Ouch, shots fired at Gajeel. But true lol. I don't see how it's debatable at this point. Natsu one shots Erza, Laxus etc if he gets really serious
 

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Yeah, I know all that. Natsu still makes every good character in the manga look like trash. God Seed being weakened is all well and good, but it still puts Natsu head and shoulders above Erza. Even without the God Seed feat, erasing Zeref puts him head and shoulders above Erza. Not to mention him soloing infinite magic FH Zeref, which is what I was actually talking about when you quoted me. But any way you slice it, Erza is in no way comparable to Natsu.
You said preskip was useless when I post the fact END + Grey were stopped by Erza but you make the point Natsu vs Zeref ? No problem for me. Feats are feats and yes Natsu is crazy strong. I agree.

For the weakened God Seed, I not necessary put him stronger than RL Laxus as I saw this one and his enhancements as huge stats.

Still, you take both Natsu as his best PoF while we haven't seen Erza's in 100YQ. Her stats are enhanced by crazy mergin when you see her fight vs Eileen, as the Dragon Queen was toying with her at the beginning, even with Wendy's boosts until being impress by Erza's own power level.

I am not saiying Erza is stronger than Natsu. But I think, it's closer than you think. Thinking that Natsu can take all FT's monsters like bullshits is irrelevant for me. Gildarts, Erza, Laxus are quite powerful.

Still, Suzaku no diff Natsu is a feat. No matter how, Natsu was enraged and couldn't react. Erza lost. Natsu lost. A defeat is a defeat. And we still don't know Suzaku's magic and his real power level.
 

Seven777

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You said preskip was useless when I post the fact END + Grey were stopped by Erza but you make the point Natsu vs Zeref ? No problem for me. Feats are feats and yes Natsu is crazy strong. I agree.

For the weakened God Seed, I not necessary put him stronger than RL Laxus as I saw this one and his enhancements as huge stats.

Still, you take both Natsu as his best PoF while we haven't seen Erza's in 100YQ. Her stats are enhanced by crazy mergin when you see her fight vs Eileen, as the Dragon Queen was toying with her at the beginning, even with Wendy's boosts until being impress by Erza's own power level.

I am not saiying Erza is stronger than Natsu. But I think, it's closer than you think. Thinking that Natsu can take all FT's monsters like bullshits is irrelevant for me. Gildarts, Erza, Laxus are quite powerful.

Still, Suzaku no diff Natsu is a feat. No matter how, Natsu was enraged and couldn't react. Erza lost. Natsu lost. A defeat is a defeat. And we still don't know Suzaku's magic and his real power level.
Huh? Preskip, as in Erza vs ToH Jellal lol, not Alvarez. What I said about END vs Gray is that Gray's face is more durable than Erza's fist because it took the hit better than she did, which is why her catching the punch is meh to me.

Of course I do, because Natsu at his best beat Aldaron, Erza at her best has done nothing. And why would I need to see Erza do more in 100YQ? You honestly think Erza's performance is actually going to get better and Natsu's is just gonna stay the same lol? No, Erza could solo all 4 Black Knights at the same time and I'd still be %99 certain Natsu will outperform her. He's beating the Dragon Gods dude, he's prob gonna solo Ignia. Natsu's best is going to be better than Erza's best, guaranteed, and by a colossal margin.

It really isn't. Erza is closer to base Natsu than she is to DF Natsu. The only character I'm willing to put anywhere close to his tier is Gildarts, and that's only because of his reputation, by feats Gildarts is garbage to him too.

Sure, it's a feat. How much it means is totally up in the air though. He could end up just being a Jellal tier that got lucky, we'll see, but I wouldn't get too hyped for him if I were you, right now his feats are sitting about as good as snow lady in the back, a character that Gray's prob gonna solo.
 

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Huh? Preskip, as in Erza vs ToH Jellal lol, not Alvarez. What I said about END vs Gray is that Gray's face is more durable than Erza's fist because it took the hit better than she did, which is why her catching the punch is meh to me.

Of course I do, because Natsu at his best beat Aldaron, Erza at her best has done nothing. And why would I need to see Erza do more in 100YQ? You honestly think Erza's performance is actually going to get better and Natsu's is just gonna stay the same lol? No, Erza could solo all 4 Black Knights at the same time and I'd still be %99 certain Natsu will outperform her. He's beating the Dragon Gods dude, he's prob gonna solo Ignia. Natsu's best is going to be better than Erza's best, guaranteed, and by a colossal margin.

It really isn't. Erza is closer to base Natsu than she is to DF Natsu. The only character I'm willing to put anywhere close to his tier is Gildarts, and that's only because of his reputation, by feats Gildarts is garbage to him too.

Sure, it's a feat. How much it means is totally up in the air though. He could end up just being a Jellal tier that got lucky, we'll see, but I wouldn't get too hyped for him if I were you, right now his feats are sitting about as good as snow lady in the back, a character that Gray's prob gonna solo.
No problem. Just for me, Erza/Gildarts/Laxus are highly stronger than Base Natsu, and surely closer to his Dragon Force rather his Base. It's my opinion. We can disagree, no problem at all. They are not garbade like you said.

As for Natsu soloing the Dragon Gods, still waiting :

Mercphobia, under half his strength was impossible to defeat without Ignia's help. I don't count that as a single win as the Dragon wasn't 100% and Natsu had a help (huge power up) which made the difference.

As for Aldoron, winning against Seeds (Guardians) without fighting the almighty Dragon is not a win at all for Natsu : it's team up and still, only Gajeel-Brandish gave some shots to the real Dragon. Aldoron died by his own overflow as nothing remain to suppress it (Guardians + Orbs).

Still waiting to see Natsu killing a full Dragon God in 1vs1. I think he needs Power Up and certainly will have. But two Dragons have fallen only to team-up + high handicaps. No clear win for Natsu alone here for me. So 40% of the Quest done without a single win in 1vs1.

Natsu's best will be more impressive than Erza's, but not sure for the colossal margin.
 

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No problem. Just for me, Erza/Gildarts/Laxus are highly stronger than Base Natsu, and surely closer to his Dragon Force rather his Base. It's my opinion. We can disagree, no problem at all. They are not garbade like you said.

As for Natsu soloing the Dragon Gods, still waiting :

Mercphobia, under half his strength was impossible to defeat without Ignia's help. I don't count that as a single win as the Dragon wasn't 100% and Natsu had a help (huge power up) which made the difference.

As for Aldoron, winning against Seeds (Guardians) without fighting the almighty Dragon is not a win at all for Natsu : it's team up and still, only Gajeel-Brandish gave some shots to the real Dragon. Aldoron died by his own overflow as nothing remain to suppress it (Guardians + Orbs).

Still waiting to see Natsu killing a full Dragon God in 1vs1. I think he needs Power Up and certainly will have. But two Dragons have fallen only to team-up + high handicaps. No clear win for Natsu alone here for me. So 40% of the Quest done without a single win in 1vs1.

Natsu's best will be more impressive than Erza's, but not sure for the colossal margin.
Natsu doesn't need a clear win against any god dragon to be head, shoulders, knees and toes above Erza, he already exists in an entirely different world to her just by defeating FH Zeref. His performance against Aldaron, while better than anyone in FT by a mile, is still not even his max potential. Maybe Erza will do better, maybe, but if she does Natsu will outperform it by the end of the story, probably by the end of the arc.

Natsu's best is already better than Erza's by a colossal margin. End of story Erza's best feat won't even come close to beating Zeref, let alone whatever Natsu is gonna do. I doubt she's doing much more than beating a single Black Knight honestly, and chances are there's going to be 3 other characters who do the same, and Gildarts will probably be a cut above them all by beating the Guild Master.
 

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Oh it's always "failed to live up to" with Mashima, at least in his later shit. So yep, it was impossible, it just turns out that "impossible" ain't all that impressive.

Casually? Who said anything about casually? Weaker people can do it, Erza proves this because we know she's weaker. Just like Shiki.

Why would they? Even Laxus didn't stop Jura's strongest attack.
The only exception being produced for Erza is by you. This shit happens all the time, I've given you examples of it happening, and yet you still whine about this bullshit. Even in your little "Imagine Lucy flicking away Laxus' strongest attack" example, at the end of the day that's exactly what Wendy did to Dimaria. Nothing about it is exclusive to Erza, her ally in that fight literally did it in her last fight lol.

Yes, he froze the water like he froze Ajeel. Just goes to show, it's easy. Top tier god character that makes Eileen look like garbage, had his attack frozen by a technique weaker than the one Gray used on Ajeel. That's just the way the manga works, you're better off accepting it now.
And no, as far as we've seen Eileen cannot reform Sema, plus Gildarts shatters it entirely with greater ease than Erza, because he is stronger than her.

Yep, but Zeref was still portrayed on Natsu's tier. Long before his lost, Natsu was slugging it out evenly with Zeref, and even when it came to them clashing their magical attacks, Demo Fist vs Darkness Blade boosted by infinite magic, it was still never even hinted that Zeref would have the advantage. They were already equals from the outset, unlike Eileen and Erza.
That aside, Erza isn't Natsu, or anywhere close to him.
um i think he failed to live upto hype in fans mind. not in his own. anything that had hype, it lived upto it (in mishma mind), unless mentioned in the manga. so yes nienhart is faaar stronger than gmg jura, no matter how amusing that sounds.

no they cant. it wont be cool then. i havent read the shiki thing.
but i am gonna assume, when shiki was doing it, his betters werent rolling their eyes.
if the above statement is true than his betters arent doing it either (thus the cool factor)

i have already told you an exception. irene sema has this weakness, no one else finisher has this weakness. thus an exception. you are super impressed by natsu final attack against zeref and aldron. tell me can erza handle that?

erza also is stronger than natsu, so she does everything natsu can do more easily. this was portrayed again when gajeel completely stopped natsu while erza and laxus fought till exhaustion. and agian in the recent chapter, erza was portrayed better than natsu.

this is bs. natsu was shown below august. maybe zeref is weaker than irene. erza and irene also fought in somewhat equal grounds before she turned into a dragon.

natsu has yet to be declared the ace of fariy tail.
just tell me since dues sema has this weakness, that if you hit it before it lands on the ground (which makes no sense since hitting it is equivilant to it hitting the ground, aka impact), you can stop it. please tell weaknesses of other moves. mainly finishers from dragon gods or high tier characters
(wendy example isnt good because she can stop all moves apparently)
 
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