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Fantasy Jellal vs Azuma

Who Wins?


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Seven777

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um i think he failed to live upto hype in fans mind. not in his own. anything that had hype, it lived upto it (in mishma mind), unless mentioned in the manga. so yes nienhart is faaar stronger than gmg jura, no matter how amusing that sounds.

no they cant. it wont be cool then. i havent read the shiki thing.
but i am gonna assume, when shiki was doing it, his betters werent rolling their eyes.
if the above statement is true than his betters arent doing it either (thus the cool factor)

i have already told you an exception. irene sema has this weakness, no one else finisher has this weakness. thus an exception. you are super impressed by natsu final attack against zeref and aldron. tell me can erza handle that?

erza also is stronger than natsu, so she does everything natsu can do more easily. this was portrayed again when gajeel completely stopped natsu while erza and laxus fought till exhaustion. and agian in the recent chapter, erza was portrayed better than natsu.

this is bs. natsu was shown below august. maybe zeref is weaker than irene. erza and irene also fought in somewhat equal grounds before she turned into a dragon.

natsu has yet to be declared the ace of fariy tail.
just tell me since dues sema has this weakness, that if you hit it before it lands on the ground (which makes no sense since hitting it is equivilant to it hitting the ground, aka impact), you can stop it. please tell weaknesses of other moves. mainly finishers from dragon gods or high tier characters
(wendy example isnt good because she can stop all moves apparently)
Sure, likely because hype doesn’t mean the same thing to him as it does to us. For example, Genesis being astounded that Shiki broke the meteor doesn’t mean Shiki>Genesis, or even Natsu.

Thats not an exception, I just told you another attack like that, Dimarias. It’s not even an exception among Eileens arsenal lol, Wendy, the most fodder character on the battlefield, beats her in an enchantment match lol.
And no, Erza can’t. The attack hasn’t been stopped in the manga, Eileens has.

No, Natsu is portrayed in a league of his own. Mashimas hyping him up as a destroyer of worlds at this point. He was above Zeref when they fought in base, he was above Zeref when they fought in FH/savage.
Natsu was winning the fight, at the beginning and at the end. Zeref was the one on the backfoot, Zeref was the one who was desperate. This isn't EIleen vs Erza, Natsu was the superior in that fight.
Erza doesn't get Natsu's abilities, she doesn't get flames of emotion, Gildarts doesn't get flames of emotions, it's exclusively Natsu's own bullshit. Her PoF boost is the same as Gildarts' PoF boost. Gildarts>Erza, PoF Gildarts>PoF Erza.

No he’s just been declared king of the dragons.
Wendy is a perfect example, one you just like to ignore because it fucks your whole argument. But I’ll play along.
Break Benizakura before it hits you, just like Deus Sema, so there’s a weakness.
Momento Mori by Demonizing, there’s a weakness.
Destroy Armadura Fairy before it hits you, weakness.
Age Seal, stopped with any form of time magic.
Abyss Break, interrupt the cast or give an injury before hand.
Memory Make, too many attacks
Law, too many opponents
Copy magic, holder magic/physical hits
Historia, being scary
Demo Fist, having a hard face
Celestial magic, losing keys
Body swap, someone else using body swap
Refraction, physical bodies, only one space can be refracted
Pleasure, biting your tongue
Hunger thinking about eating opponent
RIP heightened senses
Erigor wind shield, changing wind direction
Over skelter, light
Deus Zero, another Deus Zero
And probably dozens more. So yeah, nothing exclusive to Erza. Happens to most characters in the manga one way or another.
 

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Sure, likely because hype doesn’t mean the same thing to him as it does to us. For example, Genesis being astounded that Shiki broke the meteor doesn’t mean Shiki>Genesis, or even Natsu.

Thats not an exception, I just told you another attack like that, Dimarias. It’s not even an exception among Eileens arsenal lol, Wendy, the most fodder character on the battlefield, beats her in an enchantment match lol.
And no, Erza can’t. The attack hasn’t been stopped in the manga, Eileens has.

No, Natsu is portrayed in a league of his own. Mashimas hyping him up as a destroyer of worlds at this point. He was above Zeref when they fought in base, he was above Zeref when they fought in FH/savage.
Natsu was winning the fight, at the beginning and at the end. Zeref was the one on the backfoot, Zeref was the one who was desperate. This isn't EIleen vs Erza, Natsu was the superior in that fight.
Erza doesn't get Natsu's abilities, she doesn't get flames of emotion, Gildarts doesn't get flames of emotions, it's exclusively Natsu's own bullshit. Her PoF boost is the same as Gildarts' PoF boost. Gildarts>Erza, PoF Gildarts>PoF Erza.

No he’s just been declared king of the dragons.
Wendy is a perfect example, one you just like to ignore because it fucks your whole argument. But I’ll play along.
Break Benizakura before it hits you, just like Deus Sema, so there’s a weakness.
Momento Mori by Demonizing, there’s a weakness.
Destroy Armadura Fairy before it hits you, weakness.
Age Seal, stopped with any form of time magic.
Abyss Break, interrupt the cast or give an injury before hand.
Memory Make, too many attacks
Law, too many opponents
Copy magic, holder magic/physical hits
Historia, being scary
Demo Fist, having a hard face
Celestial magic, losing keys
Body swap, someone else using body swap
Refraction, physical bodies, only one space can be refracted
Pleasure, biting your tongue
Hunger thinking about eating opponent
RIP heightened senses
Erigor wind shield, changing wind direction
Over skelter, light
Deus Zero, another Deus Zero
And probably dozens more. So yeah, nothing exclusive to Erza. Happens to most characters in the manga one way or another.
The what does it mean? How is it cool if everyone and their mothers can do it.

That is not an exception. Wendy forms a basic shield, that can block all nukes. It's not weakness of dimeria one. Maybe it can block natsu strongest attack but it treats all attack same.

What. Attack hasn't been stopped in manga. Thus that means its unstoppable. Bs

No he hasn't. Sorry. Natsu was interested in fighting Mira. And natsu didn't one shot gajeel. He is still not the ace

Flames of emotion is nothing special.
Erza pof >>>>igneel flames of emotion
Erza with pof can hit far above her weight
For igneel flames of emotions does absolutely nothing.
Give erza igneel level base strength. With pof aconologia is going down, most likely pretty easily.

And again. I have never seen gildarts pull erza level bs.
Erza pof >>>>>>>>>> gildarts pof
That bs is exclusive to erza

Lol
Half of these examples are crap.
I like how not one of the moves aren't hax.

Stopping any spell from complete cast is weakness of all spells
And having hard face for all moves too.

You cannot break benzikura without hitting it.
Again I asked for top tier peoples.
And nukes like deus sema and dragon roars like. Preferably. Definitely not hax (for hax, its always a plot device, mishma never knows what to do, and it ends up looking stupider)

Why no hax. Because I know what would happen if lucy kicks laxus reiko red lightening but I dont know of zeref black out wont be completely handled by wendy enchantment. No hax moves are predictable most of the times. Hax aren't because even mishma doesn't know what will happen

Because dues sema is a nuke.
you people only have a problem that it is solid and not just Made of colors. And came up with crap reason that it only explode once it hits the ground. If its explodes before somehow it doesn't release its full potential (even though this makes Zero sense and there is nothing in the manga that supports it) and somehow its durability is up grabs

Where are natsu moves, laxus moves, gildarts moves, aconologia moves.
What is aconologia roar weakness?
 
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Axiomus

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The latest chapter just proved that Erza is faster than base Natsu. But we already knew that. DF Natsu still stomps Erza. You can even throw Irene into the mix. The Aldoron seed is stronger than Erza, and Aldoron's dragon body is stronger than Irene. If Erza had been on the middle city when Natsu was still fighting Aldoron, Natsu's attack would have accidentally killed her.

Deus Sema is a rock. When you throw a rock really fast, it has kinetic energy. A space rock with a lot of kinetic energy is a meteor. These type of rocks tend to explode when it impacts the ground. Erza sliced up that rock before it exploded. The argument isn't that sema's durability isn't good. It's as good as an actual meteor. The argument here is that, as far as we can tell, Irene's not actually using any magic to enhance the toughness of the rock. She's using magic to pull the rock from space and throw it really fast. Her magic is going towards moving a rock of that size at that speed.

And yeah.... solid objects are going to have an inherent disadvantage over energy projection in that they can break. This isn't exclusive to Irene. Silver can cover a city with ice so cold that it was impossible for Natsu to melt. But a fodder with a sword sliced through that ice. Wasn't even a mage.
 

Seven777

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The what does it mean? How is it cool if everyone and their mothers can do it.

That is not an exception. Wendy forms a basic shield, that can block all nukes. It's not weakness of dimeria one. Maybe it can block natsu strongest attack but it treats all attack same.

What. Attack hasn't been stopped in manga. Thus that means its unstoppable. Bs

No he hasn't. Sorry. Natsu was interested in fighting Mira. And natsu didn't one shot gajeel. He is still not the ace

Flames of emotion is nothing special.
Erza pof >>>>igneel flames of emotion
Erza with pof can hit far above her weight
For igneel flames of emotions does absolutely nothing.
Give erza igneel level base strength. With pof aconologia is going down, most likely pretty easily.

And again. I have never seen gildarts pull erza level bs.
Erza pof >>>>>>>>>> gildarts pof
That bs is exclusive to erza

Lol
Half of these examples are crap.
I like how not one of the moves aren't hax.

Stopping any spell from complete cast is weakness of all spells
And having hard face for all moves too.

You cannot break benzikura without hitting it.
Again I asked for top tier peoples.
And nukes like deus sema and dragon roars like. Preferably. Definitely not hax (for hax, its always a plot device, mishma never knows what to do, and it ends up looking stupider)

Why no hax. Because I know what would happen if lucy kicks laxus reiko red lightening but I dont know of zeref black out wont be completely handled by wendy enchantment. No hax moves are predictable most of the times. Hax aren't because even mishma doesn't know what will happen

Because dues sema is a nuke.
you people only have a problem that it is solid and not just Made of colors. And came up with crap reason that it only explode once it hits the ground. If its explodes before somehow it doesn't release its full potential (even though this makes Zero sense and there is nothing in the manga that supports it) and somehow its durability is up grabs

Where are natsu moves, laxus moves, gildarts moves, aconologia moves.
What is aconologia roar weakness?
It's cool because it looks cool and because it sounds cool. Shiki is the weakest character there, but even if he was the strongest, he's still weaker than Genesis.

Yeah, it's not an exception, because this shit is a regular thing throughout the manga, just like Deus Sema, and just like Deus Zero haha.

I didn't say it was unstoppable, lol, I said Erza couldn't stop it. Why would I assume she can when Aldaron couldn't?

Yeah, he's not the ace, he's leagues upon leagues better, both in hype and feats.

Flames of Emotion let Natsu beat infinite magic, it's very special.
What do you mean? Gildarts critically injured August and made him suicide according to you, sounds like PoF Gildarts is doing incredibly fine, easily as good as Erza, if not better, because you know, August and Eileen are equals... but of course you love your little double standard on this point don't you?

Stop whining about Erza. No one makes up anything special for her, it literally happens all the time in the manga. You're the one who going "Oh, it has to be a weakness" "Oh, it has to be a top tier" "Oh, it has to be a specific character" "Oh, it can't be hax" "Oh, it can't be shields" A bunch of random ass rules and restrictions you're pulling out of your ass to make it seem like Eileen is getting some raw deal when in reality I can and have listed off a dozen spells who have it the same. I mean what are you even talking about? This is how the manga works. Whether it’s offense, defense or hax, the reality is the same, that some spells have weaknesses, some don’t, some weaknesses are easy to exploit, some are not.
For example, Raiko Red Lightning, Laxus strongest attack. It’s weakness is incredibly easy to exploit, you dodge. Deus Sema? Not so much, unless you can teleport. So tell me why don’t we just automatically assume Raiko is a battlefield sized attack? Huh? Why does Raiko have such an easily exploitable weakness like dodging, while for Deus Sema you have to go through all the trouble of breaking it? Sounds like Laxus is getting the short end of the stick here, stop being so mean to Laxus!
So yeah, Deus Sema is fine the way it is, with an exploit suitable to the advantage its colossal scale provides, and we do know it’s an exploit sharkai, because Erza decided to meet it mid air as a rock, rather than cutting the blast, and we both know it.
 

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The latest chapter just proved that Erza is faster than base Natsu. But we already knew that. DF Natsu still stomps Erza. You can even throw Irene into the mix. The Aldoron seed is stronger than Erza, and Aldoron's dragon body is stronger than Irene. If Erza had been on the middle city when Natsu was still fighting Aldoron, Natsu's attack would have accidentally killed her.

Deus Sema is a rock. When you throw a rock really fast, it has kinetic energy. A space rock with a lot of kinetic energy is a meteor. These type of rocks tend to explode when it impacts the ground. Erza sliced up that rock before it exploded. The argument isn't that sema's durability isn't good. It's as good as an actual meteor. The argument here is that, as far as we can tell, Irene's not actually using any magic to enhance the toughness of the rock. She's using magic to pull the rock from space and throw it really fast. Her magic is going towards moving a rock of that size at that speed.

And yeah.... solid objects are going to have an inherent disadvantage over energy projection in that they can break. This isn't exclusive to Irene. Silver can cover a city with ice so cold that it was impossible for Natsu to melt. But a fodder with a sword sliced through that ice. Wasn't even a mage.
We dont even know if df natsu is fast. He just uses strength to push himself faster. This does not translate to reaction speed.
Not in mishma world. Erza most likely won't be even effected. Mishma just hasn't started portraying natsu as some sort of monster. I doubt even gajeel and gray think natsu is above them. I doubt even natsu thinks he is above erza

That rock moves becomes useless when a strong character appears. If irene and August are fighting. Irene strongest move will be sh!t infront of him. And not because of negation. Just because its soo weak. This irene has to make it stronger. Otherwise its not a move to hype. And it can get worst, imagine if brandish causally walked by. She would easily shrink it

Actually even that is not simple. If its a simple meteor. It explodes when it strikes something immovable. The output energy is the same. You basically are saying that erza took full power of the meteorite (because she made it explode). Without a scratch

I dont think so. This is fan made. We have seen gajeel eat shadows, we have seen gildarts crash fire. And we have seen natsu burn zeref black magic. Then why should i treat solid objects different. Its not category fairy tail talks about
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

It's cool because it looks cool and because it sounds cool. Shiki is the weakest character there, but even if he was the strongest, he's still weaker than Genesis.

Yeah, it's not an exception, because this shit is a regular thing throughout the manga, just like Deus Sema, and just like Deus Zero haha.

I didn't say it was unstoppable, lol, I said Erza couldn't stop it. Why would I assume she can when Aldaron couldn't?

Yeah, he's not the ace, he's leagues upon leagues better, both in hype and feats.

Flames of Emotion let Natsu beat infinite magic, it's very special.
What do you mean? Gildarts critically injured August and made him suicide according to you, sounds like PoF Gildarts is doing incredibly fine, easily as good as Erza, if not better, because you know, August and Eileen are equals... but of course you love your little double standard on this point don't you?

Stop whining about Erza. No one makes up anything special for her, it literally happens all the time in the manga. You're the one who going "Oh, it has to be a weakness" "Oh, it has to be a top tier" "Oh, it has to be a specific character" "Oh, it can't be hax" "Oh, it can't be shields" A bunch of random ass rules and restrictions you're pulling out of your ass to make it seem like Eileen is getting some raw deal when in reality I can and have listed off a dozen spells who have it the same. I mean what are you even talking about? This is how the manga works. Whether it’s offense, defense or hax, the reality is the same, that some spells have weaknesses, some don’t, some weaknesses are easy to exploit, some are not.
For example, Raiko Red Lightning, Laxus strongest attack. It’s weakness is incredibly easy to exploit, you dodge. Deus Sema? Not so much, unless you can teleport. So tell me why don’t we just automatically assume Raiko is a battlefield sized attack? Huh? Why does Raiko have such an easily exploitable weakness like dodging, while for Deus Sema you have to go through all the trouble of breaking it? Sounds like Laxus is getting the short end of the stick here, stop being so mean to Laxus!
So yeah, Deus Sema is fine the way it is, with an exploit suitable to the advantage its colossal scale provides, and we do know it’s an exploit sharkai, because Erza decided to meet it mid air as a rock, rather than cutting the blast, and we both know it.
This makes no sense. Tell me is beating up a five year old cool. Or beating up world strongest fighter cool. When mishma says its cool. That mean something impossible is happening. If this shiki guy better could do it. It would still lose that cool factor

If its so regular then why don't you give examples. All you do is give hax. Knowing wendy tier can out hax zeref tier.

Why couldn't aldron stop it. I mean if erza can stop irene top tier move, aldron must be weaker than lucy to not be able to stop natsu strongest move

Sorry. This is not being portrayed in normal setup. No one in fairy tail is treating him gildarts. Just against boss characters he is performing well. Not that abnormal

How is it special. Zeref is already weaker than natsu according to you. Its no where near erza pof which allowed her to pretty much over power a character strongest move and one shot her. I am of course talking about a character who could causally one shot erza

Nienhart and wahl are also equal. Lol. August specialty is hax, not durability.

Lol what. Calm down man. You are dumbing down.
Hax are almost always plot driven. That is how wendy fuked up zeref tier in one hit. That same zeref tier one hit laxus plus gajeel plus Mira in one hit.
This way we can kinda predict, that say if selene uses some sort of hax, Wendy might be able to help. On the other hand you know erza can't handle that natsu move (just like you already know lucy kick isnt doing anything to reiko).
Seriously, dodging! This should show you the strength of your argument.
Erza could have easily dodge dues sema, like any nuke. All she had to do jump to the side of that thing. Not jump right into it. Where the full power would be. If she get caught in the aoe of the thing. It would be magnitude better than taking it head on

So atleast think little bit. Pretty much every attack can be dodged (non hax atleast). Durability helps as well.

Your problem is you want something that is not in the manga.
Turn dues sema into a roar or colorful nuke. Nothing will change, erza will still cut through it
Nowhere in the manga did erza exploit any weakness. At max she kept the nuke away from others. But she herself either took the full power of it, or simply over powered it
 
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Seven777

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This makes no sense. Tell me is beating up a five year old cool. Or beating up world strongest fighter cool. When mishma says its cool. That mean something impossible is happening.

If its so regular then why don't you give examples. All you do is give hax. Knowing wendy tier can out hax zeref tier.

Why couldn't aldron stop it. I mean if erza can stop irene top tier move, aldron must be weaker than lucy to not be able to stop natsu strongest move

Sorry. This is not being portrayed in normal setup. No one in fairy tail is treating him gildarts. Just against boss characters he is performing well. Not that abnormal

How is it special. Zeref is already weaker than natsu according to you. Its no where near erza pof which allowed her to pretty much over power a character strongest move and one shot her. I am of course talking about a character who could causally one shot erza

Nienhart and wahl are also equal. Lol. August specialty is hax, not durability.

Lol what. Calm down man. Your dumbing down.
Hax are almost always plot driven. That is how wendy fuked up zeref tier in one hit. That same zeref tier one hit laxus plus gajeel plus Mira in one hit.
This way we can kinda predict, that say if selene uses some sort of hax, Wendy might be able to help. On the other hand you know erza can't handle that natsu move (just like you already know lucy kick isnt doing anything to reiko).
Seriously, dodging! This should show you the strength of your argument.
Erza could have easily dodge dues sema, like any nuke. All she had to do jump to the side of that thing. Not jump right into it.

So think little. Pretty much every attack can be dodged (non hax atleast). Durability helps as well.

Your problem is you want something that is not in the manga.
Turn dues sema into a roar or colorful nuke. Nothing will change, erza will still cut through it
Nowhere in the manga did erza exploit any weakness. At max she kept the nuke away from others. But she herself either took the full power of it, or simply over powered it
Don't blame me, that's just the way Mashima sees things. Breaking Sema is cool, and yet Shiki is still less than a third of Genesis strength. It's the same with the spriggans, whenever they're beaten it's portrayed as cool, but at the end of the day they're just trash. Even Natsu beating up Neinhart was a "woah impossible! Soooo cooool!" moment. So yeah, that's just how Mashima sees things.

Already listed a dozen.

Because he was killed by it.

Yeah, no one in FT is treating him like that(except Erza of course). Rather it's the characters with strength that's actually relevant, the god dragons, who are treating him like that.

For one, it's Natsu's exclusive power, which by default makes it special. Secondly, it's better than Fairy Heart, most hyped magic in the manga, so that's why it's special. Natsu was already stronger than Zeref because of Flames of Emotion.

Says who? Like I said, double standard. PoF Gildarts>PoF Erza, because he performed better against an equal foe.

Everything in FT is plot driven, not just hax. Look at Deus Sema, came from Eileen, but was busted by a canonically much weaker fighter. So yes, hax is getting included among the many spells that have weaknesses.

Yep, dodging, and it perfectly and entirely reduces your argument to nothing. Erza could have dodged in any direction she wanted, Deus Sema is battlefield sized, she was going to get hit. You keep whining about how unfair it is that Deus Sema has an exploit, when you ignore the advantage it has with it's colossal scale. You're basically saying you want to keep everything good about the spell and make everything bad about it disappear, it's ridiculous.

I mean why is it fair that Laxus' Red Lightning didn't wipe out everyone on the battlefield like Deus Sema can huh?
Why is it that some spells require incantations that can be interrupted like Abyss Break and some spells don't like Demo Fist? How's that fair?
Why is it that some spells multiply all strength like Dragon Force, while others just boost speed like Meteor? How's that fair?
Answer the questions, why are all these fair?
The answer is of course it isn't fair, Mashima doesn't deal in fair, magic isn't equal, and it's pretty much always exploitable, some can be easily exploited by being out of range like Red Lightning, some need a bit of work like Deus Sema, some need a specific trait like Age Seal, some don't have any weaknesses at all. None of it's fair, it's simply the way it is. Deus Sema being busted before it lands is an established method of dealing with the spell by both Erza and Shiki, and thus Mashima, and there's nothing wrong with that, it perfectly compensates for it's colossal scale.
 

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Don't blame me, that's just the way Mashima sees things. Breaking Sema is cool, and yet Shiki is still less than a third of Genesis strength. It's the same with the spriggans, whenever they're beaten it's portrayed as cool, but at the end of the day they're just trash. Even Natsu beating up Neinhart was a "woah impossible! Soooo cooool!" moment. So yeah, that's just how Mashima sees things.

Already listed a dozen.

Because he was killed by it.

Yeah, no one in FT is treating him like that(except Erza of course). Rather it's the characters with strength that's actually relevant, the god dragons, who are treating him like that.

For one, it's Natsu's exclusive power, which by default makes it special. Secondly, it's better than Fairy Heart, most hyped magic in the manga, so that's why it's special. Natsu was already stronger than Zeref because of Flames of Emotion.

Says who? Like I said, double standard. PoF Gildarts>PoF Erza, because he performed better against an equal foe.

Everything in FT is plot driven, not just hax. Look at Deus Sema, came from Eileen, but was busted by a canonically much weaker fighter. So yes, hax is getting included among the many spells that have weaknesses.

Yep, dodging, and it perfectly and entirely reduces your argument to nothing. Erza could have dodged in any direction she wanted, Deus Sema is battlefield sized, she was going to get hit. You keep whining about how unfair it is that Deus Sema has an exploit, when you ignore the advantage it has with it's colossal scale. You're basically saying you want to keep everything good about the spell and make everything bad about it disappear, it's ridiculous.

I mean why is it fair that Laxus' Red Lightning didn't wipe out everyone on the battlefield like Deus Sema can huh?
Why is it that some spells require incantations that can be interrupted like Abyss Break and some spells don't like Demo Fist? How's that fair?
Why is it that some spells multiply all strength like Dragon Force, while others just boost speed like Meteor? How's that fair?
Answer the questions, why are all these fair?
The answer is of course it isn't fair, Mashima doesn't deal in fair, magic isn't equal, and it's pretty much always exploitable, some can be easily exploited by being out of range like Red Lightning, some need a bit of work like Deus Sema, some need a specific trait like Age Seal, some don't have any weaknesses at all. None of it's fair, it's simply the way it is. Deus Sema being busted before it lands is an established method of dealing with the spell by both Erza and Shiki, and thus Mashima, and there's nothing wrong with that, it perfectly compensates for it's colossal scale.
But you don't know how mishma thinks. For all you know mishma thinks like me.

No you didn't. You listed hax and for others you said durability or straight up over power it or the mew one dodge (which would still be super effective for nukes with huge aoe)

So that means aldron is weaker than lucy

Erza always treated him like that. Gray and gajeel are pretty relevant.

Its just pof. Yes natsu pof is stronger
Its
natsu pof>> erza pof >gray pof >>>>>>> laxus pof > gildarts pof

How did gildarts perform better. Erza was much better performer

Dues sema was busted just like zeref with infinite magic lost. Pof reigned Supreme. Natsu in that moment was stronger than fh zeref. Same for erza.

No it doesn't. Every attack is dodgable. Erza already was in full explosion of dues sema. Did nothing to her. If she had jumped couple of meters to the side she would have completed dodged everything

Because deus sema doesn't have a weakness. You just created it out of your ass. Erza did that to save her friends. It exploded above the ground. Nothing more. Erza either overpowered it or took full force ot it. The rest of the things are coming out of your ass, nothing else.
Of course if you want to talk unfair. I know your love for laxus won't let you see wahl weakness which is literally mentioned in the same manga in the same arc and in that character description. But instead you want to create some sort of weakness for irene move even though its nowhere in the manga

The problem isn't its fair or not The problem is you know sh!t, you are just assuming mishma thinks like you. Which doesn't have to be and is most likely is not true. If erza exploited some weakness, it would be mentioned in the manga.
You just made an exception for erza so she goes to that power level which you assumes she exists on

Canonically, erza attacked the nuke head on. She either just over powered it (most likely) or overpowered it and took full brunt of it(normal meteor physics) without a scratch.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Sema being busted before it lands is an established method of dealing with the spell by both Erza and Shiki, and thus Mashima, and there's nothing wrong with that, it perfectly compensates for it's colossal scale.
No it doesn't. It just keep the people on the ground safe. It does not help erza or shiki.
 

Seven777

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But you don't know how mishma thinks. For all you know mishma thinks like me.

No you didn't. You listed hax and for others you said durability or straight up over power it or the mew one dodge (which would still be super effective for nukes with huge aoe)

So that means aldron is weaker than lucy

Erza always treated him like that. Gray and gajeel are pretty relevant.

Its just pof. Yes natsu pof is stronger
Its
natsu pof>> erza pof >gray pof >>>>>>> laxus pof > gildarts pof

How did gildarts perform better. Erza was much better performer

Dues sema was busted just like zeref with infinite magic lost. Pof reigned Supreme. Natsu in that moment was stronger than fh zeref. Same for erza.

No it doesn't. Every attack is dodgable. Erza already was in full explosion of dues sema. Did nothing to her. If she had jumped couple of meters to the side she would have completed dodged everything

Because deus sema doesn't have a weakness. You just created it out of your ass. Erza did that to save her friends. It exploded above the ground. Nothing more. Erza either overpowered it or took full force ot it. The rest of the things are coming out of your ass, nothing else.
Of course if you want to talk unfair. I know your love for laxus won't let you see wahl weakness which is literally mentioned in the same manga in the same arc and in that character description. But instead you want to create some sort of weakness for irene move even though its nowhere in the manga

The problem isn't its fair or not The problem is you know sh!t, you are just assuming mishma thinks like you. Which doesn't have to be and is most likely is not true. If erza exploited some weakness, it would be mentioned in the manga.
You just made an exception for erza so she goes to that power level which you assumes she exists on

Canonically, erza attacked the nuke head on. She either just over powered it (most likely) or overpowered it and took full brunt of it(normal meteor physics) without a scratch.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



No it doesn't. It just keep the people on the ground safe. It does not help erza or shiki.
-I do, because it took Shiki, Natsu and Haru combined as well as a nerf to his powers afterwards to beat Genesis.
-I did, there's no rule against hax. I also listed many with straight power like Abyss Break, Benizakura and Momento Mori.
-Aldaron is stronger than Lucy
-Yep, and turns out Erza was right all along, Natsu is the strongest good guy by a mile.
-No, it's flames of emotions, it's literally stated in the chapter.
-He made August suicide according to you.
-It was busted just like Shiki busted it, just like Kyria busted Benizakura, because it's a physical object.
-Save her friends? Whats that got to do with jumping? Couldn't Erza have just cut the blast wave? It's the same to you as the meteor, right? Haha.

No, "fair" is exactly your problem. You're the one who's going on about this "weakness" stuff. From the beginning, my argument has been the same, weaker characters stopping stronger spells is not something special to Erza or Eileen. Whether jumping and smashing the meteor in the air is a weakness or not doesn't matter one wit(It is though), because characters like Wendy have stopped Dimaria's Full Power attack by herself. Erza is weaker than Eileen, we know this for a fact, she was weaker in the beginning, she was weaker in the middle, and she was weaker in the end, that's why she lost the fight despite all the advantages she had, including an ally fighting with her. Erza was weaker.
 

sharkai

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-I do, because it took Shiki, Natsu and Haru combined as well as a nerf to his powers afterwards to beat Genesis.
-I did, there's no rule against hax. I also listed many with straight power like Abyss Break, Benizakura and Momento Mori.
-Aldaron is stronger than Lucy
-Yep, and turns out Erza was right all along, Natsu is the strongest good guy by a mile.
-No, it's flames of emotions, it's literally stated in the chapter.
-He made August suicide according to you.
-It was busted just like Shiki busted it, just like Kyria busted Benizakura, because it's a physical object.
-Save her friends? Whats that got to do with jumping? Couldn't Erza have just cut the blast wave? It's the same to you as the meteor, right? Haha.

No, "fair" is exactly your problem. You're the one who's going on about this "weakness" stuff. From the beginning, my argument has been the same, weaker characters stopping stronger spells is not something special to Erza or Eileen. Whether jumping and smashing the meteor in the air is a weakness or not doesn't matter one wit(It is though), because characters like Wendy have stopped Dimaria's Full Power attack by herself. Erza is weaker than Eileen, we know this for a fact, she was weaker in the beginning, she was weaker in the middle, and she was weaker in the end, that's why she lost the fight despite all the advantages she had, including an ally fighting with her. Erza was weaker.
Shiki had already used 400% of his power stopping something that would be very hard for Genesis. It is lucky enough shiki was moving after that. Your statement proves nothing

No you didn't. For abysal break you literally said stop the casting. Omg. That is also weakness for literally all other nukes. Laxus roar can be stopped by shutting his mouth before roars.
We already talked about benzikura. Is tenrou erza alverzec gildarts tier? If not. Then every single benzikura swing is not the same
Demon slaying advantage on mentomori. Ds gray could one shot mard

How do you know. He couldn't stop natsu strongest move

Mishma still not going with that in normal settings. Natsu is not the ace yet. Atleast not normally

So. Erza was glowing with pof. Its in the chapter too

So. Erz wrecked irene after overpowering her move

Physical object. What. How does natsu flame crash in tenrou arc. Erza normal swing was overpowered. Dues sema was overpowered

Blast wave would be in all direction. Erza basically struck a nuclear Missile far in the sky. She took full hit. While her friends felt nothing.

So. With pof she was stronger than Irene for five seconds. That is why she wrecked irene afterwards in one hit. Something even aconologia couldnt do to igneel. Just like gajeel is weaker than zeref but still somehow natsu was barely strongest than him now. When natsu and erza were tripping on pof they were stronger than zeref and irene respectively

You haven't given one example of stronger people nuke weakness. Other than overpower, dodge and durability, which basically works for all nukes

Shiki and erza saved people on the ground nothing more. It is equivalent of erza stepping in front of natsu to try to stop that strike (recent chapter). If aconologia has roared down instead of dues sema. Erza would still jump to try to over power it.

Hitting dues sema in the air does nothing different. If sema hits the ground it explodes. If it hits something very hard in the air, it still explodes with same intensity. Nothing changes except people one the ground are little far away from the explosion
 

Seven777

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Shiki had already used 400% of his power stopping something that would be very hard for Genesis. It is lucky enough shiki was moving after that. Your statement proves nothing

No you didn't. For abysal break you literally said stop the casting. Omg. That is also weakness for literally all other nukes. Laxus roar can be stopped by shutting his mouth before roars.
We already talked about benzikura. Is tenrou erza alverzec gildarts tier? If not. Then every single benzikura swing is not the same
Demon slaying advantage on mentomori. Ds gray could one shot mard

How do you know. He couldn't stop natsu strongest move

Mishma still not going with that in normal settings. Natsu is not the ace yet. Atleast not normally

So. Erza was glowing with pof. Its in the chapter too

So. Erz wrecked irene after overpowering her move

Physical object. What. How does natsu flame crash in tenrou arc. Erza normal swing was overpowered. Dues sema was overpowered

Blast wave would be in all direction. Erza basically struck a nuclear Missile far in the sky. She took full hit. While her friends felt nothing.

So. With pof she was stronger than Irene for five seconds. That is why she wrecked irene afterwards. Something even aconologia couldnt do to igneel. Just like gajeel is weaker than zeref but still somehow natsu was barely strongest than him now. When natsu and erza were tripping on pof they were stronger than zeref and irene respectively

You haven't given one example of stronger people nuke weakness. Other than overpower, dodge and durability

Shiki and erza saved people on the ground nothing more. It is equivalent of erza stepping in front of natsu to try to stop that strike (recent chapter). If aconologia has roared down instead of dues sema. Erza would still jump to try to over power it.

Hitting dues sema in the air does nothing different. If sema hits the ground it explodes. If it hits something very hard in the air, it still explodes with same intensity. Nothing changes except people one the ground are little far away from the explosion
-Haha, afraid not, Shiki full on lost to Genesis in an earlier fight, no Sema breaking, I'm afraid Shiki is just weaker lol. And yeah, it does prove Mashima's mindset.
-I did. Looks like a "weakness" to Memento Mori to me. Abyss Break was stopped by prior injury, terrible weakness. Benizakura is Tartaros Erza's strongest.
-Because he kicked Base Natsu's ass. You also don't need to stop a move to be stronger than someone, what a stupid comment.
-Why should I care about normal setting? I'm talking full power Natsu, not casual Natsu.
-And? Glowing =/= Flames of Emotion
-Not as good as making someone suicide.
-Crash breaks non physical objects too, it's one of it's core features lol
-Hang on.... I thought the Meteor being a solid object didn't matter.... all of a sudden it does? Goodness me....
-No, she was to Eileen what Shiki was to Genesis.
-I literally did in that very sentence, Wendy vs Dimaria
-Don't matter to me, the whole weakness argument is your thing, it didn't come from me. For me, it doesn't matter a single bit if breaking Deus Sema midair is a weakness. because at the end of the day, weaker character stop stronger character attacks all the time.
 

sharkai

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-Haha, afraid not, Shiki full on lost to Genesis in an earlier fight, no Sema breaking, I'm afraid Shiki is just weaker lol. And yeah, it does prove Mashima's mindset.
-I did. Looks like a "weakness" to Memento Mori to me. Abyss Break was stopped by prior injury, terrible weakness. Benizakura is Tartaros Erza's strongest.
-Because he kicked Base Natsu's ass. You also don't need to stop a move to be stronger than someone, what a stupid comment.
-Why should I care about normal setting? I'm talking full power Natsu, not casual Natsu.
-And? Glowing =/= Flames of Emotion
-Not as good as making someone suicide.
-Crash breaks non physical objects too, it's one of it's core features lol
-Hang on.... I thought the Meteor being a solid object didn't matter.... all of a sudden it does? Goodness me....
-No, she was to Eileen what Shiki was to Genesis.
-I literally did in that very sentence, Wendy vs Dimaria
-Don't matter to me, the whole weakness argument is your thing, it didn't come from me. For me, it doesn't matter a single bit if breaking Deus Sema midair is a weakness. because at the end of the day, weaker character stop stronger character attacks all the time.
So did erza. Pof was for a moment
Yes from a character who could one shot mard. Already talked about every single benzikura swing is not the same
Prior injury will stop laxus roar too. Basically that injury stopped jellal from straining. Nothing more

But he couldn't stop natsu strongest strongest move thus definitely weaker than lucy

That is not full power natsu. You are talking about pof natsu. That is power natsu cannot access whenever he wants

Flames of emotion is irrelevant. Didnt help igneel a little bit

No its below. Against a character who specializes in negating attacks on himself

How do you break a non physical object. Natsu has shown to burn zeref black.magiv as well. Gray has frozen flames also non Physical. Gajeel eats shadows for gods sake. Mishma never treats them differently

No it doesn't. I am just showing nonsense reasons of yours

Wendy blocking dimeria is not domeria weakness. Wendy can do that to dues sema nuke and laxus reiko too. It treats all nukes same. Power behind it would tell us whether Wendy can block it or not

No that never happened. Stronger character stopped a weaker character move
Pof erz >= dragon irene >>irene>>erza

This also why pof erz knocked irene out of her dragon form. Igneel couldn't do this to Aconologia or vice versa
 
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Seven777

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So did erza. Pof was for a moment
Yes from a character who could one shot mard. Already talked about every single benzikura swing is not the same
Prior injury will stop laxus roar too. Basically that injury stopped jellal from straining. Nothing more

But he couldn't stop natsu strongest strongest move thus definitely weaker than lucy

That is not full power natsu. You are talking about pof natsu. That is power natsu cannot access whenever he wants

Flames of emotion is irrelevant. Didnt help igneel a little bit

No its below. Against a character who specializes in negating attacks on himself

How do you break a non physical object. Natsu has shown to burn zeref black.magiv as well. Gray has frozen flames also non Physical. Gajeel eats shadows for gods sake. Mishma never treats them differently

No it doesn't. I am just showing nonsense reasons of yours

Wendy blocking dimeria is not domeria weakness. Wendy can do that to dues sema nuke and laxus reiko too. It treats all nukes same. Power behind it would tell us whether Wendy can block it or not

No that never happened. Stronger character stopped a weaker character move
Pof erz >= dragon irene >>irene>>erza
-Lost as in a separate fight entirely, but if you wanna say Erza is to Eileen what Shiki was to Genesis, that's fine by me lol
-Yep, a hell of a weakness. Nothing is the same, each magic is unique, including Deus Sema, so that's fine by me. Not really, Laxus could still attack with cancer.
-Why? Lucy hasn't stopped any of Natsu's moves, let alone his strongest.
-It's flames of emotions Natsu
-Doesn't need to help Igneel
-It's above, and we know it's above because Gildarts>Erza
-Every instance you mentioned is different. Actually, you just mentioned a lot of "weaknesses" lol, guess Deus Sema is far from alone after all haha.
-No, it's just a prime example of a weaker character negating a stronger characters attack, and thus doing so is definitively not exclusive to Eileen & Erza
-Eileen>Erza, and that's pretty much it. Erza just did a Shiki, that's all.
 

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For me there are differents versions of PoF. The Power of Feelings or emotions, can be use by all characters in the Manga, like anger, desperate, determination, sadness... to give adrenaline into their stats to enhance them on a moment. This is what I understand as Full Power for a character :
- Gildarts used it when August menace to kill Kana.
- Mirajane used it when Skullion erased Gimini Lisanna in front of Mirajane.
- Laxus used it when he faced Erza and asked her to stop holding back as he wanted a blood fight.

These are only few exemples... This is what I understand about power of feeling. It's recurrent Magic everybody can use to rise their max level.

Some characters can continuously use their feelings to enhance their stats to another level, until some limitbreak. I think about Slayers :
- Natsu use Flame of Emotion to drain his rage into his flames until rising his climax level which is Dragon Force. It's adrenaline used growing gradually without failing, contrary of classic adrenaline used by above characters.
- Gray is falling down into his anger or darkness the time he stays in Devil Slayer Mode. It's also gradually as Demon Mode eats his humanity gradually until making him insane as a result in exchange of enhancing stats until rising "Devil Force".

Both are like the Hulk, berserkers. But they reach a limitbreak : Dragon Force - END // Devil Force (Gray).

So if you want to consider Natsu at full power, you can take "Dragon Force", the classic one. When using it, I can see him close to current Laxus or Erza. So, no, for me, he is not the ultimate Ace of Fairy Tail.

Above PoF, there is another Power : "Power of Bond" or "Love as Magic One", the strongest of all Magics. This is when a character ears and connect the heart to the others one. This power acts as "Unisson Raid of Feelings" that transcend far beyond the Full Power of a Character.

For me, only two characters since the beginning of the Manga can tap into this "Unique Power" who is above impossible feats :
- Erza and Natsu.

This unique hability or Unisson Raid of Bonds can only use for seconds and with only certain condition. They are not willing to use it when they want.
- Natsu used it two times : to burn Fairy Heart and destroying Zero long time ago in same description of this power.
- Erza used it three times : break through Tenro's Magic used by Azuma, rised against Kyoka who shut down all her senses and to destroy Eileen's Deus Sema.

The condition of this unique hability is wake up when friends are about to die or being erase. Both Characters can destroy their own body in action or suicide to save them all. So, currently, they are the two with the highest "Potential" of Fairy Tail. But this potential needs circumstances and is use for one or two shots, not a willing power.

You have to think that Natsu used it vs Aldoron god seed when this one insults Igneel in front of Natsu. As answer of this affront, Igneel's Legacy "fused" their Bonds into Natsu and the pillar is the result. This power is like "Unisson Raid of Fire Dragon's Bonds" and transcent by huge mergin the full power of Natsu's willing Dragon Force. He said "It's my Fire", but with that, I understand "It's my legacy, Igneel's Legacy of the Fire Dragons".

So if you want to consider Natsu's willing Full Power, you only can take account his Dragon Force where he was only matching Aldoron God Seed. Not Power of Bond which can break impossible Walls for seconds. You have to think that Natsu can kill Erza in one strike with this. But the reverse is also valid.
 
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Seven777

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Erza is closer to Gray than she is to Natsu, in her use of PoF, in her relevance to the manga and in her power level.
 

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Reread Tenrô for Erza. It's same definition as Natsu facing Zero and FH Zeref. But sure she didn't connect hearts and bonds. Only Natsu did.
 

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We dont even know if df natsu is fast. He just uses strength to push himself faster. This does not translate to reaction speed.
Not in mishma world. Erza most likely won't be even effected. Mishma just hasn't started portraying natsu as some sort of monster. I doubt even gajeel and gray think natsu is above them. I doubt even natsu thinks he is above erza

That rock moves becomes useless when a strong character appears. If irene and August are fighting. Irene strongest move will be sh!t infront of him. And not because of negation. Just because its soo weak. This irene has to make it stronger. Otherwise its not a move to hype. And it can get worst, imagine if brandish causally walked by. She would easily shrink it

Actually even that is not simple. If its a simple meteor. It explodes when it strikes something immovable. The output energy is the same. You basically are saying that erza took full power of the meteorite (because she made it explode). Without a scratch

I dont think so. This is fan made. We have seen gajeel eat shadows, we have seen gildarts crash fire. And we have seen natsu burn zeref black magic. Then why should i treat solid objects different. Its not category fairy tail talks about
We do know that DF Natsu is fast. He went from being unable to tag Jellal to keeping up with him. The mere fact that Natsu can keep up with Jellal means that he can tag Erza. And quite frankly....it doesn't even matter if Natsu isn't as fast as Erza. He just needs to be fast enough to keep her in front of him. Purgatory Dragon Fire is the size of a city.

Mashima has started portraying Natsu as stronger than Erza. And it's not even just in this arc. He was stronger than FH Zeref all the way back in Alvarez, who again....Is stronger than Erza. Natsu thinks he can solo the S-Class. He also literally thinks Happy is stronger than everyone else. Gajeel and Gray know they're below Natsu. Gajeel because he lost to Natsu twice. Gray thought he'd just be in Natsu's way when they fought Zeref. Aldoron thinks Natsu is going to burn the world. But it simply doesn't matter what the characters think. Purgatory Dragon Fire vaporized the Aldoron god seed and blasted a hole in Aldoron's dragon body. Anybody who is not stronger than Aldoron gets vaporized, and both the seed and the actual dragon body are stronger than Erza. Destruction Fist vaporized Zeref's body, who had to piece himself back together by rewinding time with Fairy Heart. Erza is not surviving a finisher from DF Natsu. She'd have to be leagues above Aldoron or Zeref, or have an ability to allow her to survive incineration.

August probably has a bunch of ways to counter Deus Sema, sure. He could just negate the damage. He can also turn intangible, copy dragon slaying magic and eat the explosion, use a barrier, teleport away....And I'm sure there's a bunch of other things he could do. Irene's dragon form negates most of August's attacks too. I don't see a problem with this. They're equals.

Brandish couldn't shrink enchanted Neinhart, and deus sema is a stronger enchantment.

It's actually just that simple. When a meteor impacts the ground, we'd see a giant fireball because a huge portion of that kinetic energy converts into heat. Just look at when Jellal's sema struck the ground. Had deus sema actually struck the ground, the explosion would have likely been even larger than Jellal's sema. We simply don't see that when Erza sliced up the meteor. There's a small explosion a bit larger than the meteor itself....Mostly just dust and debris.

What? That solid objects can break, while energy projection can't? That's not fan made. That applies even to real life. We're not talking about eating. We're talking about slicing up objects. You can slice a meteor because it's a rock. You can't slice something like melt because it's fire. Or rather, you can slice through melt, but your sword would just pass through the flames without actually doing much. You'd have to slash so hard that you create enough air pressure to displace the entire pillar of fire. And if Erza's not doing that against Laxus' red lightning, it's probably not going to happen to August's melt.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Reread Tenrô for Erza. It's same definition as Natsu facing Zero and FH Zeref. But sure she didn't connect hearts and bonds. Only Natsu did.
Yeah, she did.
 
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We do know that DF Natsu is fast. He went from being unable to tag Jellal to keeping up with him. The mere fact that Natsu can keep up with Jellal means that he can tag Erza. And quite frankly....it doesn't even matter if Natsu isn't as fast as Erza. He just needs to be fast enough to keep her in front of him. Purgatory Dragon Fire is the size of a city.
that was strength feat. natsu huge amount of energy to jump

Mashima has started portraying Natsu as stronger than Erza. And it's not even just in this arc. He was stronger than FH Zeref all the way back in Alvarez, who again....Is stronger than Erza. Natsu thinks he can solo the S-Class. He also literally thinks Happy is stronger than everyone else. Gajeel and Gray know they're below Natsu. Gajeel because he lost to Natsu twice. Gray thought he'd just be in Natsu's way when they fought Zeref. Aldoron thinks Natsu is going to burn the world. But it simply doesn't matter what the characters think. Purgatory Dragon Fire vaporized the Aldoron god seed and blasted a hole in Aldoron's dragon body. Anybody who is not stronger than Aldoron gets vaporized, and both the seed and the actual dragon body are stronger than Erza. Destruction Fist vaporized Zeref's body, who had to piece himself back together by rewinding time with Fairy Heart. Erza is not surviving a finisher from DF Natsu. She'd have to be leagues above Aldoron or Zeref, or have an ability to allow her to survive incineration.
it may be so. but natsu isnt an ace yet. when that happens we will have some charcaters clearly showing it

mishma just wont kill erza like that. logically you are correct
August probably has a bunch of ways to counter Deus Sema, sure. He could just negate the damage. He can also turn intangible, copy dragon slaying magic and eat the explosion, use a barrier, teleport away....And I'm sure there's a bunch of other things he could do. Irene's dragon form negates most of August's attacks too. I don't see a problem with this. They're equals.
i meantioned that if august doesnt have negation magic. he could still easily handle it. which goes against its hype. why should august (not using negation) easily handle a top august tier move.

Brandish couldn't shrink enchanted Neinhart, and deus sema is a stronger enchantment.
you said dues sema is just a rock. why are you talking about enchantment now. if its just a rock. brandish can sleep while she handles it

It's actually just that simple. When a meteor impacts the ground, we'd see a giant fireball because a huge portion of that kinetic energy converts into heat. Just look at when Jellal's sema struck the ground. Had deus sema actually struck the ground, the explosion would have likely been even larger than Jellal's sema. We simply don't see that when Erza sliced up the meteor. There's a small explosion a bit larger than the meteor itself....Mostly just dust and debris.
doesnt compute. what is the difference of that meteor hiting the ground or hitting erza (an immovable object). as far as i know. that kinectic energy turns into heat in both cases, and equal amount as well.
erza slicing it at max will make it into two pieces. resulting devastation will be same

What? That solid objects can break, while energy projection can't? That's not fan made. That applies even to real life. We're not talking about eating. We're talking about slicing up objects. You can slice a meteor because it's a rock. You can't slice something like melt because it's fire. Or rather, you can slice through melt, but your sword would just pass through the flames without actually doing much. You'd have to slash so hard that you create enough air pressure to displace the entire pillar of fire. And if Erza's not doing that against Laxus' red lightning, it's probably not going to happen to August's melt.
fairy tail does not differentiat between these things.
again in recent spoiler we are seeing
fire being cut. those light butterflys are being cut
mishma has never differentiated between tangible and non tangible objects, in fairy tail atleast
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

-Lost as in a separate fight entirely, but if you wanna say Erza is to Eileen what Shiki was to Genesis, that's fine by me lol
-Yep, a hell of a weakness. Nothing is the same, each magic is unique, including Deus Sema, so that's fine by me. Not really, Laxus could still attack with cancer.
-Why? Lucy hasn't stopped any of Natsu's moves, let alone his strongest.
-It's flames of emotions Natsu
-Doesn't need to help Igneel
-It's above, and we know it's above because Gildarts>Erza
-Every instance you mentioned is different. Actually, you just mentioned a lot of "weaknesses" lol, guess Deus Sema is far from alone after all haha.
-No, it's just a prime example of a weaker character negating a stronger characters attack, and thus doing so is definitively not exclusive to Eileen & Erza
-Eileen>Erza, and that's pretty much it. Erza just did a Shiki, that's all.
pof erza was above irene. normal erza is far below irene
you are not giving me any weakness. its mishma way of showing that attack effected him so he cant strain. its a not a weakness. we dont know waht that cancer was doing to laxus. so its not the same.

does it matter. we know far weaker mages can stop far stronger mages strongest attacks. brute vs brute. irene strongest brute attack got taken out erza attack. so why not same for natsu and lucy. why cant you give me anything for non hax strongest attack being overpowered by much weaker mage attack.
i mean if erza can overpower irene strongest move. why is it beyond you to think someone alot weakner than natsu can do that to natsu strongest moive (without using any hax, or speed) just by pure strength.

what is flames of emotion natsu. its just peak pof natsu. basrely any difference

igneel needed it. yes it does make us understand that flame of emotion aint much different from pof.

sadly no. we know erza>natsu just as we know gildarts >erza. this dragon eater again showed it. natsu didnt even see the swrod. meanwhile erza went from being behind natsu to saving his life.

-Every instance you mentioned is different. Actually, you just mentioned a lot of "weaknesses" lol, guess Deus Sema is far from alone after all haha.
if you have nothing to say than just say Bluh blah blah i am right you are wrong. why being a troll. i have made myself clear. non hax. because we keep on seeing God teir natsu falling for hax all the time. that lackey of selene did it too.
wendy put white witch down who causally put laxus gajeel and mira down.
suzuku seems interesting because he took out natsu without hax. while selene lackey did not look that impressive because of nature of her magic

deus sema is indeed unique for you. only top tier non hax move, which can handled by people far weaker than the top tier. of course you wont apply this to anyone else.
natsu can kill laxus + erza + suzuku. but irene moves has so much weakness that a character that she can literally one shot can easily take her strongest. lol

Eileen>Erza, and that's pretty much it. Erza just did a Shiki, that's all.
not really
normally yes.
but pof exists
pof erza>irene
that is why pof erza one shot irene right after. something aconologia and igneel couldnt do to each other. even though aconologia is a ds and igneel is a dragon
--- Double Post Merged, ---

i will summarize what is said. and then atleast not talk here, because its off topic as hell
first on topic

jellal vs azuma
i think jellal laxus and erza were in the same tier pre ts. they were all said to be far stronger than natsu but werent compared to each other. unless you give credibility to laxus wanking himself while wonder how the fuk did evergreen lose to erza. erza was never said be the weakest s class mage ever (even when mira was off). erza of course is shown struggling because she is one of the main. but if mishma replaces erza with jellal or laxus. and keeps the rules same. (rules like main has to struggle and nakama theme. and natsu has to take out the boss character every time). fairy tail story wont change even a little bit
then we have pre ts jellal feat.
his speed if the most impressive. but can we really say toh jellal is faster than OS racer using his slowing magic. nothing in manga supports this.
his nukes are impressive. but by how much. GC nearly took out natsu. how durable is toh natsu anyway. is he more durable than edolas gajeel? well azuma pretty much one shot pantherlily one arc after edolas arc (pantherlily stalemated gajeel in edolas arc). so one can consider gc above tower brust but it shouldnt be by that much.
azuma handled erza just fine. i see no reason why he wont handle jellal in the same way.
tricking azuma into bind snake or explosion circle is not possible. you just dont see low tier spells handling strong characters in fairy tail.

now if someone wants to say jellal is on a whole different level than erza, then filler is the way to go. we have non cannon filler. where OS guys got a huge powerup. i mean more bigger power up than fairy tail main guys. other than midnight of course.

cobra and racer were scared of midnight. there is no better way to show that midnight was a tier above racer and cobra. which is why we see racer alone taking out natsu gray (with angel help) and three fodders while erza needed to be taken out by cobra racer and hoteye in a sneak attack. this showed huge gap between
erza and natsu gray
and
erza and cobra and racer.
this is what you call portrayal.
then we see cobra easily handling natsu (maybe because of haxy nature of his magic)
and we see midnight somewhat handle erza.
in other words a tier difference between midnight and cobra.

now look at the filler. midnight needs gensis zero to handle natsu (who in the manga was having trouble with max). meanwhile cobra was stomping erza till she didnt pull out that filler hammer.
this erza is important. because this erza is the same erza who beat WS tier monster plus 99 other monsters, who tanked a nuke which even shocked jura and moved so fast that markarov couldnt follow and was dealing or taking jupiter tier attacks (when kagura was still sheathed)

tenrou erza is stronger than kagura and most likely minerva as well
going by gmg power levels

god tier
Jura
top tier
minerva
kagura
mid tier
orga (i am putting him here because minerva did tell him also not to fight kagura)
shadow rouge
low tier
sting
rouge

now if the above tier list is somewhat correct
where would max go. where would filler midnight go or that filler cobra.
starry arc would fuk the power list in any way you look at it.


either how. os never used their filler powers ever again (except angel because she had no magic). jellal handled them.
i think tartarus jellal performance wasnt so impressive, if you ignore the filler (which you normally are supposed to do anyway). but going by mishma, we can safety say tartarus jellal is still strong character. but this doesnt show jellal to be >> erza
which brings me back to pre ts jellal vs tenrou azuma.
without tenrou tree power it could go either way. but azuma is a better fighter and far versatile (which is weird because jellal should know alot of magic)
with tenrou power its a stomp match
 

Seven777

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pof erza was above irene. normal erza is far below irene
you are not giving me any weakness. its mishma way of showing that attack effected him so he cant strain. its a not a weakness. we dont know waht that cancer was doing to laxus. so its not the same.

does it matter. we know far weaker mages can stop far stronger mages strongest attacks. brute vs brute. irene strongest brute attack got taken out erza attack. so why not same for natsu and lucy. why cant you give me anything for non hax strongest attack being overpowered by much weaker mage attack.
i mean if erza can overpower irene strongest move. why is it beyond you to think someone alot weakner than natsu can do that to natsu strongest moive (without using any hax, or speed) just by pure strength.

what is flames of emotion natsu. its just peak pof natsu. basrely any difference

igneel needed it. yes it does make us understand that flame of emotion aint much different from pof.

sadly no. we know erza>natsu just as we know gildarts >erza. this dragon eater again showed it. natsu didnt even see the swrod. meanwhile erza went from being behind natsu to saving his life.



if you have nothing to say than just say Bluh blah blah i am right you are wrong. why being a troll. i have made myself clear. non hax. because we keep on seeing God teir natsu falling for hax all the time. that lackey of selene did it too.
wendy put white witch down who causally put laxus gajeel and mira down.
suzuku seems interesting because he took out natsu without hax. while selene lackey did not look that impressive because of nature of her magic

deus sema is indeed unique for you. only top tier non hax move, which can handled by people far weaker than the top tier. of course you wont apply this to anyone else.
natsu can kill laxus + erza + suzuku. but irene moves has so much weakness that a character that she can literally one shot can easily take her strongest. lol



not really
normally yes.
but pof exists
pof erza>irene
that is why pof erza one shot irene right after. something aconologia and igneel couldnt do to each other. even though aconologia is a ds and igneel is a dragon
--- Double Post Merged, ---

i will summarize what is said. and then atleast not talk here, because its off topic as hell
first on topic

jellal vs azuma
i think jellal laxus and erza were in the same tier pre ts. they were all said to be far stronger than natsu but werent compared to each other. unless you give credibility to laxus wanking himself while wonder how the fuk did evergreen lose to erza. erza was never said be the weakest s class mage ever (even when mira was off). erza of course is shown struggling because she is one of the main. but if mishma replaces erza with jellal or laxus. and keeps the rules same. (rules like main has to struggle and nakama theme. and natsu has to take out the boss character every time). fairy tail story wont change even a little bit
then we have pre ts jellal feat.
his speed if the most impressive. but can we really say toh jellal is faster than OS racer using his slowing magic. nothing in manga supports this.
his nukes are impressive. but by how much. GC nearly took out natsu. how durable is toh natsu anyway. is he more durable than edolas gajeel? well azuma pretty much one shot pantherlily one arc after edolas arc (pantherlily stalemated gajeel in edolas arc). so one can consider gc above tower brust but it shouldnt be by that much.
azuma handled erza just fine. i see no reason why he wont handle jellal in the same way.
tricking azuma into bind snake or explosion circle is not possible. you just dont see low tier spells handling strong characters in fairy tail.

now if someone wants to say jellal is on a whole different level than erza, then filler is the way to go. we have non cannon filler. where OS guys got a huge powerup. i mean more bigger power up than fairy tail main guys. other than midnight of course.

cobra and racer were scared of midnight. there is no better way to show that midnight was a tier above racer and cobra. which is why we see racer alone taking out natsu gray (with angel help) and three fodders while erza needed to be taken out by cobra racer and hoteye in a sneak attack. this showed huge gap between
erza and natsu gray
and
erza and cobra and racer.
this is what you call portrayal.
then we see cobra easily handling natsu (maybe because of haxy nature of his magic)
and we see midnight somewhat handle erza.
in other words a tier difference between midnight and cobra.

now look at the filler. midnight needs gensis zero to handle natsu (who in the manga was having trouble with max). meanwhile cobra was stomping erza till she didnt pull out that filler hammer.
this erza is important. because this erza is the same erza who beat WS tier monster plus 99 other monsters, who tanked a nuke which even shocked jura and moved so fast that markarov couldnt follow and was dealing or taking jupiter tier attacks (when kagura was still sheathed)

tenrou erza is stronger than kagura and most likely minerva as well
going by gmg power levels

god tier
Jura
top tier
minerva
kagura
mid tier
orga (i am putting him here because minerva did tell him also not to fight kagura)
shadow rouge
low tier
sting
rouge

now if the above tier list is somewhat correct
where would max go. where would filler midnight go or that filler cobra.
starry arc would fuk the power list in any way you look at it.


either how. os never used their filler powers ever again (except angel because she had no magic). jellal handled them.
i think tartarus jellal performance wasnt so impressive, if you ignore the filler (which you normally are supposed to do anyway). but going by mishma, we can safety say tartarus jellal is still strong character. but this doesnt show jellal to be >> erza
which brings me back to pre ts jellal vs tenrou azuma.
without tenrou tree power it could go either way. but azuma is a better fighter and far versatile (which is weird because jellal should know alot of magic)
with tenrou power its a stomp match
-Erza above Eileen.... good one.
-Sure, and him being affected didn't stop Meteor. Abyss Break has a weakness that Meteor doesn't have. A nice addition to the list if I do say so myself
-The gap between Natsu and Erza is bigger than the gap between Erza and Eileen, let alone Lucy. That aside, Natsu's attack hasn't shown to be stopped.
-Because it's stated explicitly to be Natsu
-We don't even know that Igneel has Flames of Emotions, that's just Axiomas' theory.
-Natsu>Erza hasn't been true since Alvarez, arguably Tartaros when Natsu went DF without powerups.
-It's simple, there is no reason not to include hax. Some magic has weaknesses, like Memento Mori, a power move, Deus Sema isn't special. neither is hax.
-No, it was clear, Erza lost the fight, Eileen was more powerful. No matter what Erza tried, no matter what emotions she had, no matter how helpful Wendy was(and she was VERY helpful), she still could not defeat Eileen. Eileen was the undeniable superior beginning to end, the gap between the two was at least as large as the gap between Mard Geer and Tartaros Gray, or Shiki and Genesis.

Minerva told Sting not to find Kagura, not Orga. And she said it was to conserve energy.
 

sharkai

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and the off topic discussion

is natsu stronger than erza. is natsu strongest character in the guild. well it looks like it. but remember no charcaters seems to think of him like that. which is mind you more important than what fans thinks of him. recent suzuku feats shows this.

tangible non tangible are not treated differently in fairy tail. you have equal chances of cutting shadow as you would have of cutting rocks. those who use physical attacks arent weaker than those who use energy waves. this is not even mentioned or showed in the manga.

dues sema weakness.
this is not in the manga. dues sema cannot be just a rock. otherwise as i said before it becomes a weak move for irene tier. just a rock means brandish can handle it while sleeping. brandish was scared of irene.
pof does increase power levels. so what if erza was hitting at or above irene level. is that impossible for pof in this manga.

this pof erza went to nearly one shot irene. so a case can be made for pof erza>irene
counter argument would be erza had ds.
this is complicated. because manga made it that way. dragon use ds. can you imagine zirconis one shoting igneel.
difference between demon slaying and dragon slaying.
think koyoka and silver
does anyone thinks koyoka has more chances of beatng mard. of course not. meanwhile silver might have been capable of one shotting mard. igneel and aconologia could fight. aconologia didnt one shot igneel like erza did with irene.

another point is why does dues sema has this weakness.
first its not mentioned in the manga
two this manga does not treat tangible and intangible differently
three do we really know of another attack (not hax) which can be overcome by weaker attack. we are basically talking about can natsu final attack against be over come by mages weaker than him, maybe gajeel and gray, with their own weaker attack
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

-Erza above Eileen.... good one.
-Sure, and him being affected didn't stop Meteor. Abyss Break has a weakness that Meteor doesn't have. A nice addition to the list if I do say so myself
-The gap between Natsu and Erza is bigger than the gap between Erza and Eileen, let alone Lucy. That aside, Natsu's attack hasn't shown to be stopped.
-Because it's stated explicitly to be Natsu
-We don't even know that Igneel has Flames of Emotions, that's just Axiomas' theory.
-Natsu>Erza hasn't been true since Alvarez, arguably Tartaros when Natsu went DF without powerups.
-It's simple, there is no reason not to include hax. Some magic has weaknesses, like Memento Mori, a power move, Deus Sema isn't special. neither is hax.
-No, it was clear, Erza lost the fight, Eileen was more powerful. No matter what Erza tried, no matter what emotions she had, no matter how helpful Wendy was(and she was VERY helpful), she still could not defeat Eileen. Eileen was the undeniable superior beginning to end, the gap between the two was at least as large as the gap between Mard Geer and Tartaros Gray, or Shiki and Genesis.

Minerva told Sting not to find Kagura, not Orga. And she said it was to conserve energy.
that cut on dragon irene shows otherwise
its not a weakness. i think its called a needle. which you are searching for in a haystack

i sure saw that gap with suzuku. i cant even say erza is weaker than suzuku because erza wasnt prepared for the attack and her position werent right. meanwhile suzuku looks couple of tiers above natsu

sooo. its not like flames of emotion allowed tower of heaven natsu to beat jellal

not in the manga. mishma apparently still thinks gajeel can handle natsu

you are making it special. its not is my point. it should be treated like any natsu power attcaks or laxus power attacks. no added benefits or weakness which you are trying to give it

she was. but pof raised erza power by alot.

its really hard for you to believe that pof exists in fairy tail and it raises people powers

and jellal vs jura in gmg also makes no sense then

Minerva told Sting not to find Kagura, not Orga. And she said it was to conserve energy
huh so minerva only told sting not to fight kagura and jura and that too only to conserve energy?
 
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Axiomus

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If something is moving fast, then it's a speed feat. Doesn't matter if the speed is the result of physical strength.

Why shouldn't August be able to use magic to counter Deus Sema? Irene is flat out immune to most of August's spells too. i really don't see the problem with this.

Deus Sema is an enchanted rock. The enchantment is what pulls the rock towards the earth. Brandish can't effect anything that has more MP than enchanted Neinhart, and the enchantment on sema probably takes more MP than enchanted Neinhart. Neinhart's durability didn't skyrocket when Irene enchanted him either.

The kinetic energy didn't turn into heat when Erza sliced it. We simply don't see the expected explosion. When a meteor impacts the ground, most of the rock actually vaporizes on impact. When Erza sliced it, crumbled into smaller chunks of debris.

Erza isn't Suzaku. Suzaku is slashing hard enough that the air pressure is displacing the flames from Selene's attack.
 
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