No different from how spriggan's were exposed. Pleasure works extremely well only for those who are not a virgin. Kagura resisted it way better than Laxus did. Does this mean Kagura > Laxus?
August is no way stronger than DF Natsu nor Zeref.
No that means she's had less pleasure lol. And he also has RIP. Kyria isn't getting around his hax. Before someoje beings up Sting, Sting had an advantage against Larcade and had 2 other mages helping him. Kyria doesn't have those.
How? What has Zeref (Without FH) done to put him above August? His so called death magic only kills plants and animals and was avoided by tenrou elfman and evergreen. He was fighting completely equal to base Natsu in Alvarez. It's only his Immortality that he has going for him but August doesn't need to be immortal to be stronger than him.
DF Natsu is not stronger than August. August can easily avoid his attacks tiring him out. Natsu can barely get a few hits in before exhausting himself. Seeing as how August has copied Jellal and Racers magic which means he has Meteor and Speed magic, I fail to see what Natsu is going to do to him.
That form isn't anything special. It's just DF Natsu at a very high level of dragonisation. Now currently he probably can dragonise about 40% , I consider that form about 70% dragonised. 100% DF would be Acnologia tier. And no that half dragon form would clap Spriggan 12 + Zeref at the same time , it's leagues above August.
Nope DF Natsu and Zeref both clap August. DF Natsu is capable of wrestling physically with Mercuphobia currently and Zeref can take Igneel Natsu's attacks , and required Natsu on PoF steroids + him having the power of guild to overpower him.
That form isn't anything special. It's just DF Natsu at a very high level of dragonisation. Now currently he probably can dragonise about 40% , I consider that form about 70% dragonised. 100% DF would be Acnologia tier. And no that half dragon form would clap Spriggan 12 + Zeref at the same time , it's leagues above August.
Nope DF Natsu and Zeref both clap August. DF Natsu is capable of wrestling physically with Mercuphobia currently and Zeref can take Igneel Natsu's attacks , and required Natsu on PoF steroids + him having the power of guild to overpower him.
Idk where ur getting these numbers as DF natsu in the manga barely dragonizes. Like I said he's never shown that specific form in the manga. He's top DF form which was Alvarez or Dragon Cry are no where. Near Acnologia so all these numbers are headcanon
Yea DF powered by Ignias Flames. It's not the same. That was mainly Ignias MP helping them out as Natsu on his own couldn't do anything. That DF and Ignia power up was a one time thing
August has so many attacks that can one shot or close to ko Natsu before he goes DF.
How? What has Zeref (Without FH) done to put him above August? His so called death magic only kills plants and animals and was avoided by tenrou elfman and evergreen. He was fighting completely equal to base Natsu in Alvarez. It's only his Immortality that he has going for him but August doesn't need to be immortal to be stronger than him.
DF Natsu is not stronger than August. August can easily avoid his attacks tiring him out. Natsu can barely get a few hits in before exhausting himself. Seeing as how August has copied Jellal and Racers magic which means he has Meteor and Speed magic, I fail to see what Natsu is going to do to him.
Idk fodder 6 mages at once and absolutely play around with Cana and Gildarts. He wasn't going for the kill against her. He was busy with Gildarts and was destroying him. Lol
Yes weve seen him use speed magic and Jellal most likely wouldve used meteor. Idk why he wouldnt since he couldn't do anything else against August.
Oh so all of a sudden Cana >> August? He was fighting Gildarts not her. He can easily kill her but don't forget about this thing called plot
How? What has Zeref (Without FH) done to put him above August? His so called death magic only kills plants and animals and was avoided by tenrou elfman and evergreen. He was fighting completely equal to base Natsu in Alvarez. It's only his Immortality that he has going for him but August doesn't need to be immortal to be stronger than him.
DF Natsu is not stronger than August. August can easily avoid his attacks tiring him out. Natsu can barely get a few hits in before exhausting himself. Seeing as how August has copied Jellal and Racers magic which means he has Meteor and Speed magic, I fail to see what Natsu is going to do to him.
I thought the users here were joking about Zeref being equal to Base Natsu. Seems like I was wrong huh.
What makes you say Zeref is equal to Base Natsu ? The PiS fight where Zeref was holding back ? Zeref oneshotted Natsu moments later when he got serious. Natsu needed DF to break out of the immobilization spell. This is like saying Base Natsu = Jacob because he was fighting evenly with him when Natsu was restricted. Plus even after being incinerated by PoF DF Natsu , Zeref still had enough magic inside him left to rewind time. Plus he took hits from Igneel's power. PoF Natsu + the power of guild via guild mark was needed to match and overpower him. Literally not even one fact in the manga suggests Base Natsu = Zeref and I don't know where you came up with this fantastic theory.
And post script , the death magic you trash on is not Zeref's own power , but Ankhseram's. And the same magic oneshotted Igneel's scales on Tenrou , probably the most impressive feat in the manga till now. So no , it's not just his immortality.
I am saying permanent DF Natsu not temporary. And DF Natsu has enormous speed too , in case you forgot.
Wrong. He can't do that on his own and weve never seen him have that half dragon form in the anime. I'm also sure he will never use that again.
Without the FH August is stronger than Zeref it's just the Immortality. WW we need to see more. August is stronger than DF Natsu.
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Kyrias hax is easily beaten as weve seen twice. If there starting at a distance then Larcade pleasures get to death ASAP.
Sure at the beginning her hype was through the roof, but Erza and Laxus exposed that. Skullion one shot Gray and Madmole tanks hits only like 3 other FT characters can. They have some way more than her
Yep, and Larcades was easily beaten too by Sting and Kagura. Biting your tongue, saying you're going to eat your foe, it's all pretty meh. I've never been a big believer in hax to begin with.
As for her hype, meh, Skullion is prob getting beaten by Gray round 2 as well, and Madmole just got stalemated by Elfman. Kyria is prob Madmole tier, Skullion is prob a little above. Laxus and Erza are just top tier, and even then Erza is only up there with Laxus if it turns out that she doesn't need Wendy to re enchant the DS seal and Natsu/Gray's power.
I thought the users here were joking about Zeref being equal to Base Natsu. Seems like I was wrong huh.
What makes you say Zeref is equal to Base Natsu ? The PiS fight where Zeref was holding back ? Zeref oneshotted Natsu moments later when he got serious. Natsu needed DF to break out of the immobilization spell. This is like saying Base Natsu = Jacob because he was fighting evenly with him when Natsu was restricted. Plus even after being incinerated by PoF DF Natsu , Zeref still had enough magic inside him left to rewind time. Plus he took hits from Igneel's power. PoF Natsu + the power of guild via guild mark was needed to match and overpower him. Literally not even one fact in the manga suggests Base Natsu = Zeref and I don't know where you came up with this fantastic theory.
And post script , the death magic you trash on is not Zeref's own power , but Ankhseram's. And the same magic oneshotted Igneel's scales on Tenrou , probably the most impressive feat in the manga till now. So no , it's not just his immortality.
I am saying permanent DF Natsu not temporary. And DF Natsu has enormous speed too , in case you forgot.
I thought the users here were joking about Zeref being equal to Base Natsu. Seems like I was wrong huh.
What makes you say Zeref is equal to Base Natsu ? The PiS fight where Zeref was holding back ? Zeref oneshotted Natsu moments later when he got serious. Natsu needed DF to break out of the immobilization spell. This is like saying Base Natsu = Jacob because he was fighting evenly with him when Natsu was restricted. Plus even after being incinerated by PoF DF Natsu , Zeref still had enough magic inside him left to rewind time. Plus he took hits from Igneel's power. PoF Natsu + the power of guild via guild mark was needed to match and overpower him. Literally not even one fact in the manga suggests Base Natsu = Zeref and I don't know where you came up with this fantastic theory.
And post script , the death magic you trash on is not Zeref's own power , but Ankhseram's. And the same magic oneshotted Igneel's scales on Tenrou , probably the most impressive feat in the manga till now. So no , it's not just his immortality.
I am saying permanent DF Natsu not temporary. And DF Natsu has enormous speed too , in case you forgot.
Ignia only gave him magic power. The DF that gave him ability to wrestle with Mercuphobia physically is still his. That's his current Dragon Force. His attacks dished out are Ignia's power , his ability to wrestle physicallyis his own Dragon Force.
Yeah no Zeref immobilized Natsu with one shot when he got serious.https://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/530/19
Plus I like how you only bring up this fight and ignore the fact that he could tank attacks from Igneel Natsu that were bypassing his immortality. Guess Base Natsu = Jacob now , because Natsu was fighting on par with Jacob , right ? Don't know the concept of holding back ?
And plus , FH is trash artifact which doesn't add any power to Zeref imo. The attack dished out by PoF Guild Mark Natsu was finite. If FH really increased Zeref's stats , it should've increased them to infinity since a fraction of infinity is still infinity. It didn't. Imo all it does is provide him with an endless supply of magic so he'll never be out of magic , but not increase his AP. Mavis also said that FH could be used to fire Etherion unlimited number of times. He needed infinite power just to open the Neo Eclipse gate not to fight with Acno. He would get trashed by Acno or Igneel even with FH. FH Zeref is the same as Base Zeref with a fancy time rewind. Reason ? We know PoF DF Matsu couldn't incinerate all of Zeref's magic but PoF Guild Mark Natsu did. Which means PoF Guild Mark Natsu > Zeref > PoF Alvarez DF Natsu . ( Imo current DF Natsu > Zeref )
And lastly , I don't know how you can think Base Natsu = Zeref if you consider Larcade above Base Natsu and it's outright stated Larcade is weaker than Zeref.
Idk where ur getting these numbers as DF natsu in the manga barely dragonizes. Like I said he's never shown that specific form in the manga. He's top DF form which was Alvarez or Dragon Cry are no where. Near Acnologia so all these numbers are headcanon
Yea DF powered by Ignias Flames. It's not the same. That was mainly Ignias MP helping them out as Natsu on his own couldn't do anything. That DF and Ignia power up was a one time thing
August has so many attacks that can one shot or close to ko Natsu before he goes DF.
That form is not shown in the manga but Dragon Cry is canon . So all those events happened. I said he's "probably" 70% judging by the extent of his dragonisation , my opinion.
I know Natsu can't enter DF by himself any time he wants. But once he enters August is done. Ignia only provided him with the magic power required for attacks , but the physical strength was still his Dragon force's.
When I say DF Natsu I mean he's starting in DF. Even I know August can wipe Natsu in base.
Also the WW is directly scaled to Zeref. So she would defeat August too via scaling.
I know some people are salty over poor writing and want to downplay characters but that's not how it works. Even generic shoumen rule suggests Zeref/WW > August.
Ignia only gave him magic power. The DF that gave him ability to wrestle with Mercuphobia physically is still his. That's his current Dragon Force. His attacks dished out are Ignia's power , his ability to wrestle physicallyis his own Dragon Force.
Yeah no Zeref immobilized Natsu with one shot when he got serious.https://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/530/19
Plus I like how you only bring up this fight and ignore the fact that he could tank attacks from Igneel Natsu that were bypassing his immortality. Guess Base Natsu = Jacob now , because Natsu was fighting on par with Jacob , right ? Don't know the concept of holding back ?
And plus , FH is trash artifact which doesn't add any power to Zeref imo. The attack dished out by PoF Guild Mark Natsu was finite. If FH really increased Zeref's stats , it should've increased them to infinity since a fraction of infinity is still infinity. It didn't. Imo all it does is provide him with an endless supply of magic so he'll never be out of magic , but not increase his AP. Mavis also said that FH could be used to fire Etherion unlimited number of times. He needed infinite power just to open the Neo Eclipse gate not to fight with Acno. He would get trashed by Acno or Igneel even with FH. FH Zeref is the same as Base Zeref with a fancy time rewind. Reason ? We know PoF DF Matsu couldn't incinerate all of Zeref's magic but PoF Guild Mark Natsu did. Which means PoF Guild Mark Natsu > Zeref > PoF Alvarez DF Natsu . ( Imo current DF Natsu > Zeref )
And lastly , I don't know how you can think Base Natsu = Zeref if you consider Larcade above Base Natsu and it's outright stated Larcade is weaker than Zeref.
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That form is not shown in the manga but Dragon Cry is canon . So all those events happened. I said he's "probably" 70% judging by the extent of his dragonisation , my opinion.
I know Natsu can't enter DF by himself any time he wants. But once he enters August is done. Ignia only provided him with the magic power required for attacks , but the physical strength was still his Dragon force's.
When I say DF Natsu I mean he's starting in DF. Even I know August can wipe Natsu in base.
Also the WW is directly scaled to Zeref. So she would defeat August too via scaling.
I know some people are salty over poor writing and want to downplay characters but that's not how it works. Even generic shoumen rule suggests Zeref/WW > August.
Ignia only gave him magic power. The DF that gave him ability to wrestle with Mercuphobia physically is still his. That's his current Dragon Force. His attacks dished out are Ignia's power , his ability to wrestle physicallyis his own Dragon Force.
If anyone is going to read any part of this post, please go to the TL;DR at the bottom as this got ridiculously long winded and repeats itself at times.
Saying she can't cut Laxus is a moot point, she can cut Erza so durability shouldn't be an issue.
As for Wahl matching blows with Laxus, you're completely ignoring that Wahl was immune to his Magic. Its a decent strength feat but lets not pretend its anywhere near matching Laxus' Lightning-infused punches.
The point about POF is a fair one, completely forgot about that.
Not convinced Mercury Fulminate should be that much stronger than Roaring Thunder though, at least not enough to differ between only KO'ing Kyria vs one-shot killing Wahl.
Eh, while its noted that Machias are naturally weak to lightning, Wahl never states it to be a fatal weakness. Similar to what I said above, it doesn't make me think its enough of a factor to change an attack KO'ing to one-shot killing.
Kyria was fodderized in one blow with an art that's not even close to Laxus' strongest attack ,
without Laxus having any advantage of weakness over her and without him getting emotional and requiring a PoF powerup. He didn't even give a damn let alone get emotional .
The only bit I disagree with in here is Roaring Thunder not being close to Laxus' best attack. Roaring Thunder is a Secret Art and a high-tier spell, even if its not his most powerful spell now it shouldn't be leagues weaker than any of his Red Lightning attacks. Hell, Secret Arts are still clearly powerful considering that Natsu used his over FDKM Demo Fist against Mercphovia (talking about pre-Ignia amp) and Gajeel used his against Natsu when he was trying to kill him.
And as I said before, the point about POF is a good one.
That said, what makes you think Wahl would do any better vs 100YQ Laxus than Kyria did? Wahl only got major hits in on Laxus when he attacked him as he was having MBP tumour related fits, and he one-shot killed Wahl the second his Magic could actually affect him. Given that we know August thought Laxus could easily one-shot kill Ajeel, why would the same not apply for Wahl? You also have to account for the fact that 100YQ is clearly > Alvarez Laxus since he not only unlocked a new Mode but also fodderized someone Erza was having trouble with and then immediately beat Erza herself.
Like I said in my original post - I'm not arguing that Kyria necessarily would beat Wahl, just that Wahl isn't stomping Kyria.
Erza literally got one hit in and Kyria got back up when she landed above deck - and she was eager to start fighting again. Did Erza have the upperhand? Yes, but taking one hit is hardly getting pummelled, especially since Kyria used no named moves at all.
Something important that is being overlooked is Erza pulling out Belserion. Her pulling that out was what prompted Laxus to enter Red Lightning:
So Kyria losing the upperhand to Belserion Erza is hardly a bad feat when its what made Laxus decide to pull out Red Lightning.
Bruh, that's Laxus! The dude is just too strong, besides she at least took some attacks off screen before the Secret Art. And remember, even his base punches are strong enough to break Erza's anti-lightning armour and make the woman herself scream in pain, so its not like Kyria wasn't tanking anything.
Never thought I'd have to wank Laxus to a guy named @August_Lightning lol
If I fought a 6'6 Judo champion with lung disease and kicked the shit out of him when he had a coughing fit, would the fact that the Judo champion had lung disease take away from that? YES.
I don't want to sound bitchy but I've provided panels that show Wahl getting hits on Laxus was because the guy was half dying. Had it been a healthy Laxus Wahl may not have hit him at all after their initial back and forth. Saying Laxus' ill health doesn't take away from Wahl's fight against Laxus is absurd.
1) Immunity was the only god damn reason Wahl wasn't one-shot killed
2) Wahl outright confirmed Laxus should have been dead with how severe his MBP condition was
3) As stated above, the only reason Wahl got a bunch of his Assault Mode hits on Laxus was because he caught Laxus having a fit
"Plays a role" is understating how badly Wahl was outclassed to the point that I can't exaggerate how wildly you're dissing Laxus here.
I've actually changed my mind on this, Wahl's offence is outdated now IMO.
Dude, he unleashed his barrage of Assault Mode attacks on Laxus while he was having a fit and Laxus was fine, only collapsing because of the MBPs.
According to Wahl it was so bad that even breathing would hurt soon. If Wahl's barrage can't put down a Laxus that is literally terminally ill, I don't see it putting down Kyria who tanked Belserion and was only put down by a Secret Art from a healthy and generally superior version of Laxus.
Everything from Assault mode to Etherion there is no way Kyria is tanking that. She was immobilized by a secret art, do you really think Wahl and his entire arsenal of attacks isn't putting her down too?
As I've stated above, the only thing that put Kyria down for good was a Secret Art from Laxus, and that was after she had taken multiple attacks from him off screen. And nameless attacks from Laxus aren't weak, being able to break 100YQ Erza's lightning armour and make her scream in pain.
On the other hand Wahl couldn't put down a terminally ill Laxus who was having fits. So no, I'm struggling to see Wahl put down Kyria.
The only 'maybe' in all of this is Etherion, but Wahl only brought it out against Laxus when he was on the ground, right in front of him and couldn't move. Even then, it required enough charge time that Laxus could draw a Jutsu Shiki barrier. Even if you ignore those caveats, Wahl's Etherion is completely featless.
Why would base be anywhere near RL? His base is strong sure but RL is overkill as we've seen with the Erza fight. His base secret art is no where near his RL attack that could kill a Spriggan. His RL beat an Erza who had so many tricks up her sleeve it was insane and his RL was able to cancel out her blumenblatt and almost destroy the whole tower. I'd compare RL to base the same way I'd compare FDKM to base.
His secret art against Kyria was minimal in damage and clearly less potent than his RL
I'm not trying to say that his Secret Art is on-par with his Red Lightning attacks, just that Roaring Thunder shouldn't be massively outclassed by them either.
Strangely enough though our analogy of Base/Red Lighting being similar to Base/FDKM is the same, but I think it supports my own point better. Note how when Natsu went against Mercphovia the first time he used a Secret Art instead of FDKM Demo Fist. He used Demo Fist later once he had the Ignia amp, but when he was against Merc he chose the Secret Art. Now you could try and argue this was due to Natsu being low on MP, but Demo Fist doesn't seem particularly straining considering how frequently he spammed it in Alvarez and now in 100YQ.
While I'm not saying that Roaring Thunder is on-par with Red Lightning attacks, I also see no reason to think that the difference in power is enough to result in such drastic results (Kyria being KO'd vs Wahl being one-shot killed).
Kyria's durability is nowhere near as bad as it seems. She forced Erza into bringing out Belserion, took a named attack from it and was ready to fight once she landed after being knocked into the air. Just as a reminder, Erza bringing out Belserion is what prompted Laxus to bring out Red Lightning, so losing the upperhand to her is hardly a poor performance. As for her fight against Laxus she took at least one or two nameless attacks off-screen before getting KO'd by Roaring Lightning. This sounds bad but is actually somewhat understandable when you consider that one unnamed attack from Laxus broke Erza's anti-lightning armour and had her screaming in pain.
On the other hand we have Wahl. Wahl was fighting against an inferior version of Laxus than the one Kyria fought, an inferior version that was terminally ill and suffering coughing fits at that. Despite this there are multiple examples of Laxus matching and at times even outmatching Wahl, even when the latter was using Assault Mode. Even if we look at the few times Assault Mode Wahl did get the upperhand against Laxus it was because of Wahl taking advantage of Laxus' coughing fits and attacking him when he physically couldn't respond. Regardless Laxus tanked everything Wahl threw at him and only collapsed at the end because of his MBP tumour affecting his condition. Once Laxus was cured of his MBPs, he very promptly one-shot killed Wahl because he finally hit him with a spell that bypassed Wahl's immunity to lightning.
There is one argument that can be made for Wahl though - Weakness Magic. Personally I don't think its enough since Kyria has been shown to be able to cut through Magic, not too dissimilar from Gildarts' Crash Magic. There's also the issue of how Weakness would even counter Blade Dragon Slaying Magic in the first place. Personally, writing this has made me decide that Kyria would win, but that isn't what this post is about. This post is refuting that Wahl would stomp Kyria, nothing more, nothing less.
Anyway, that's the last post I'm making on this topic, sorry I've just got too much on my plate atm.
We're not going to pretend they fought the same Laxus first off. Wahl was immune to lightning and Laxus was sick to boot. Wahl probably still wins though. Depends on how powerful 5th gen dragon force is and if Kiria even has it.
If anyone is going to read any part of this post, please go to the TL;DR at the bottom as this got ridiculously long winded and repeats itself at times.
As @Seven777 pointed out, Kyria cut through Aquametria (and IIRC she also cut through one of Natsu's attacks? Not sure on this one though).
Saying she can't cut Laxus is a moot point, she can cut Erza so durability shouldn't be an issue.
As for Wahl matching blows with Laxus, you're completely ignoring that Wahl was immune to his Magic. Its a decent strength feat but lets not pretend its anywhere near matching Laxus' Lightning-infused punches.
She is, since Laxus deemed her worthy of using a Secret Art on and she tanked Erza's slash from Belserion + Flame Armour attack.
The point about POF is a fair one, completely forgot about that.
Not convinced Mercury Fulminate should be that much stronger than Roaring Thunder though, at least not enough to differ between only KO'ing Kyria vs one-shot killing Wahl.
Eh, while its noted that Machias are naturally weak to lightning, Wahl never states it to be a fatal weakness. Similar to what I said above, it doesn't make me think its enough of a factor to change an attack KO'ing to one-shot killing.
The only bit I disagree with in here is Roaring Thunder not being close to Laxus' best attack. Roaring Thunder is a Secret Art and a high-tier spell, even if its not his most powerful spell now it shouldn't be leagues weaker than any of his Red Lightning attacks. Hell, Secret Arts are still clearly powerful considering that Natsu used his over FDKM Demo Fist against Mercphovia (talking about pre-Ignia amp) and Gajeel used his against Natsu when he was trying to kill him.
And as I said before, the point about POF is a good one.
That said, what makes you think Wahl would do any better vs 100YQ Laxus than Kyria did? Wahl only got major hits in on Laxus when he attacked him as he was having MBP tumour related fits, and he one-shot killed Wahl the second his Magic could actually affect him. Given that we know August thought Laxus could easily one-shot kill Ajeel, why would the same not apply for Wahl? You also have to account for the fact that 100YQ is clearly > Alvarez Laxus since he not only unlocked a new Mode but also fodderized someone Erza was having trouble with and then immediately beat Erza herself.
Like I said in my original post - I'm not arguing that Kyria necessarily would beat Wahl, just that Wahl isn't stomping Kyria.
Erza literally got one hit in and Kyria got back up when she landed above deck - and she was eager to start fighting again. Did Erza have the upperhand? Yes, but taking one hit is hardly getting pummelled, especially since Kyria used no named moves at all.
Something important that is being overlooked is Erza pulling out Belserion. Her pulling that out was what prompted Laxus to enter Red Lightning:
So Kyria losing the upperhand to Belserion Erza is hardly a bad feat when its what made Laxus decide to pull out Red Lightning.
Bruh, that's Laxus! The dude is just too strong, besides she at least took some attacks off screen before the Secret Art. And remember, even his base punches are strong enough to break Erza's anti-lightning armour and make the woman herself scream in pain, so its not like Kyria wasn't tanking anything.
Never thought I'd have to wank Laxus to a guy named @August_Lightning lol
Unless Wahl has firepower on-par with 100YQ Laxus then he's in for a long fight.
And as @Seven777 brought up, Wahl has had his attacks slashed by Kagura before, so Kyria should be able to outright negate some attacks.
Except it definitely does?
If I fought a 6'6 Judo champion with lung disease and kicked the shit out of him when he had a coughing fit, would the fact that the Judo champion had lung disease take away from that? YES.
I don't want to sound bitchy but I've provided panels that show Wahl getting hits on Laxus was because the guy was half dying. Had it been a healthy Laxus Wahl may not have hit him at all after their initial back and forth. Saying Laxus' ill health doesn't take away from Wahl's fight against Laxus is absurd.
"Immunity and sickness plays a role"
Bruh.
1) Immunity was the only god damn reason Wahl wasn't one-shot killed
2) Wahl outright confirmed Laxus should have been dead with how severe his MBP condition was
3) As stated above, the only reason Wahl got a bunch of his Assault Mode hits on Laxus was because he caught Laxus having a fit
"Plays a role" is understating how badly Wahl was outclassed to the point that I can't exaggerate how wildly you're dissing Laxus here.
I've actually changed my mind on this, Wahl's offence is outdated now IMO.
Dude, he unleashed his barrage of Assault Mode attacks on Laxus while he was having a fit and Laxus was fine, only collapsing because of the MBPs.
According to Wahl it was so bad that even breathing would hurt soon. If Wahl's barrage can't put down a Laxus that is literally terminally ill, I don't see it putting down Kyria who tanked Belserion and was only put down by a Secret Art from a healthy and generally superior version of Laxus.
As I've stated above, the only thing that put Kyria down for good was a Secret Art from Laxus, and that was after she had taken multiple attacks from him off screen. And nameless attacks from Laxus aren't weak, being able to break 100YQ Erza's lightning armour and make her scream in pain.
On the other hand Wahl couldn't put down a terminally ill Laxus who was having fits. So no, I'm struggling to see Wahl put down Kyria.
The only 'maybe' in all of this is Etherion, but Wahl only brought it out against Laxus when he was on the ground, right in front of him and couldn't move. Even then, it required enough charge time that Laxus could draw a Jutsu Shiki barrier. Even if you ignore those caveats, Wahl's Etherion is completely featless.
I'm not trying to say that his Secret Art is on-par with his Red Lightning attacks, just that Roaring Thunder shouldn't be massively outclassed by them either.
Strangely enough though our analogy of Base/Red Lighting being similar to Base/FDKM is the same, but I think it supports my own point better. Note how when Natsu went against Mercphovia the first time he used a Secret Art instead of FDKM Demo Fist. He used Demo Fist later once he had the Ignia amp, but when he was against Merc he chose the Secret Art. Now you could try and argue this was due to Natsu being low on MP, but Demo Fist doesn't seem particularly straining considering how frequently he spammed it in Alvarez and now in 100YQ.
While I'm not saying that Roaring Thunder is on-par with Red Lightning attacks, I also see no reason to think that the difference in power is enough to result in such drastic results (Kyria being KO'd vs Wahl being one-shot killed).
Nah, I'm not gonna give Kyria's hax feats it doesn't have.
That said Wahl is made of organic materials IIRC, so it could make an interesting what-if omake.
As I mentioned to him, Wahl was inherently immune to lightning from the start so those 'matched blows' should be taken with a mountain of salt.
Kyria's durability is nowhere near as bad as it seems. She forced Erza into bringing out Belserion, took a named attack from it and was ready to fight once she landed after being knocked into the air. Just as a reminder, Erza bringing out Belserion is what prompted Laxus to bring out Red Lightning, so losing the upperhand to her is hardly a poor performance. As for her fight against Laxus she took at least one or two nameless attacks off-screen before getting KO'd by Roaring Lightning. This sounds bad but is actually somewhat understandable when you consider that one unnamed attack from Laxus broke Erza's anti-lightning armour and had her screaming in pain.
On the other hand we have Wahl. Wahl was fighting against an inferior version of Laxus than the one Kyria fought, an inferior version that was terminally ill and suffering coughing fits at that. Despite this there are multiple examples of Laxus matching and at times even outmatching Wahl, even when the latter was using Assault Mode. Even if we look at the few times Assault Mode Wahl did get the upperhand against Laxus it was because of Wahl taking advantage of Laxus' coughing fits and attacking him when he physically couldn't respond. Regardless Laxus tanked everything Wahl threw at him and only collapsed at the end because of his MBP tumour affecting his condition. Once Laxus was cured of his MBPs, he very promptly one-shot killed Wahl because he finally hit him with a spell that bypassed Wahl's immunity to lightning.
There is one argument that can be made for Wahl though - Weakness Magic. Personally I don't think its enough since Kyria has been shown to be able to cut through Magic, not too dissimilar from Gildarts' Crash Magic. There's also the issue of how Weakness would even counter Blade Dragon Slaying Magic in the first place. Personally, writing this has made me decide that Kyria would win, but that isn't what this post is about. This post is refuting that Wahl would stomp Kyria, nothing more, nothing less.
Anyway, that's the last post I'm making on this topic, sorry I've just got too much on my plate atm.
She only cut Erza when she hax-ed her out which made Erza weak thus defenseless. Plus Erza is more endurance than durability.
Wall is only immune to the lightning he's not immune to the concussive produce from the lightning. Kiria also couldn't even match Laxus in physicality either.
You forget without immunity to lightning Wall is inherently weak to it so him fighting Laxus was a bad match up as once Laxus bypassed lightning immunity Wall's inherent weakness kicked in. Second, Wall die to Laxus strongest move that was super effective to him. Kiria got toasted w/o Laxus breaking a sweat.
Erza used Shin Benzisakura not Belserion sword against Laxus. Laxus went RL because he stated that he couldn't down Erza with anything less than it. It didn't have anything to do with the enchantments lol.
It remains to be seen if Natsu's dragon force with his own magic power has the same level as physical strength as the dragon force that was triggered from eating Ignia's flames. We should be able to tell right away just by looking at how much Natsu dragonizes. Ignia's flames gave Natsu scales over most of his body and his hands into claws. If Natsu's current dragon force has the same degree of transformation, then it's probably just as powerful. If it's only a few patches of scales, then it's probably not on the same level.
Dragon Cry form was a special case, and it's not clear if it can be replicated. Technically Natsu suffered a fatal wound fighting Animus, and that wound just magically disappeared. The form also gave Natsu some weird blue coloured flame. I can only assume that drinking Lucy's tears gave him some sort of massive POF boost. Not even sure what to call it. Power of Lucy? Waifu force?
Not convinced Mercury Fulminate should be that much stronger than Roaring Thunder though, at least not enough to differ between only KO'ing Kyria vs one-shot killing Wahl.
It isn't that stronger but the difference is considerable imo.
Eh, while its noted that Machias are naturally weak to lightning, Wahl never states it to be a fatal weakness. Similar to what I said above, it doesn't make me think its enough of a factor to change an attack KO'ing to one-shot killing.
I see it more or less like devil slaying magic or dragon slaying magic. It's a weakness , so it should be effective. It damages the components of their body. Gray oneshotted Mard with Devil Slaying magic even when he was a tier below him , so Laxus oneshotting Wahl isn't all that surprising to me tbf , even if we consider that their weakness is less severe than devil slaying magic because that attack dished out by Laxus was probably the strongest attack he's dished out till now.
That said, what makes you think Wahl would do any better vs 100YQ Laxus than Kyria did? Wahl only got major hits in on Laxus when he attacked him as he was having MBP tumour related fits, and he one-shot killed Wahl the second his Magic could actually affect him. Given that we know August thought Laxus could easily one-shot kill Ajeel, why would the same not apply for Wahl? You also have to account for the fact that 100YQ is clearly > Alvarez Laxus since he not only unlocked a new Mode but also fodderized someone Erza was having trouble with and then immediately beat Erza herself.
Here's where we disagree. I don't think Laxus would've oneshotted Ajeel , and I don't trust August's opinion. It's because his opinion has been contradicted in the manga. If Laxus really was capable of oneshot killing Ajeel , he should've no diffed Erza . Yes , no difficulty. Because Ajeel damaged Erza when she was in the sand storm. Even if we say Ajeel had an advantage against Erza , she should've completely no sold his attacks if she could tank Laxus' Red Lightning attacks , which are his stronger attacks. She didn't , which means Laxus' attacks aren't as strong as we thought. His attacks are on par with Erza , but what places him above her is his insane durability , since he can tank Natsu + Gray's enchanted power + Erza's physical strength and still remain standing at least some time.
Here's where we disagree. I don't think Laxus would've oneshotted Ajeel , and I don't trust August's opinion. It's because his opinion has been contradicted in the manga. If Laxus really was capable of oneshot killing Ajeel , he should've no diffed Erza .
Let's be honest. No one from FT would get no diffed in a straight-up fight. Logic and FT don't go well together. Acno couldn't oneshot or at least knockout freaking rogue who should have fodder than Wendy when he speeds blitz, God Serena. August couldn't beat Cana even after getting a direct hit.
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