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Fantasy Luffy vs Marco

MBVC

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A general comparison before Luffy takes on Kaido. It's well known that Garp was way stronger than Marco during the war. Therefore Luffy must climb above the phoenix wall with ease before he is allowed to enter the most exclusive monsters club: Roger, WB, Garp and Sengoku during their prime times.

Talking big is cheap right?
 

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I would argue that right now luffy is significantly weaker than marco. Marco was WB's number two, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he was actually stronger than doflamingo and we all saw the extent to which luffy had to go to barely win that fight. Defeating doflamingo was a long battle of attrition which took everything out of the whole country. Even after using gear 4 luffy had to be protected before he could land the final blow. Luffy would need to use gear 4 several times to win and we know he can only manage one without help.

I am not so sure that garp was really stronger than marco. That was only one exchange. Now, garp is without a doubt a monster but he is also old now. Marco is someone who is in a position where he would be tough for garp in his prime....

Odds are that kaido's defeat will be something along the lines of what happened with doflamingo. A long battle of attrition where kaido fights god knows how many people and takes god knows how many attacks. I wouldn't be surprised if he is eventually taken down not by luffy alone but rather entire crews. With luffy of course dealing the final blow.
 

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Luffy should still be a tad beneath Marco. Marco seems to be quite close to admiral level. I'd say he's a little above Sabo and DD. Taking his DF regenerative powers into consideration and the fact that Luffy's gear doesn't have a very long run time and a severe handicap when he runs out of haki, fighting Marco wouldn't be a good match up for him.

As for Garp and Marco, I'm quite certain that's it's indisputable that Garp is quite beyond him. Garp may be old but he's not sick like WB was. Marco is generally a difficult opponent for anyone due to his DF abilities but he's not at a level where he can defeat admirals or the likes of Garp.
 

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IIRC Marco was able to hold his own against Admirals during the war... With WB dead and Marco assuming control, I very much doubt he has stagnated in his growth. It makes more sense for him to be significantly stronger as I don't see the WB pirates being quiet about BB taking their territory.

Luffy is still a level or two below. Marco on the other hand was arguably admiral level or slightly below them.

Taking both their abilities into consideration, then Luffy should lose handily if they were to fight now.
 

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Luffy should still be a tad beneath Marco. Marco seems to be quite close to admiral level. I'd say he's a little above Sabo and DD. Taking his DF regenerative powers into consideration and the fact that Luffy's gear doesn't have a very long run time and a severe handicap when he runs out of haki, fighting Marco wouldn't be a good match up for him.

As for Garp and Marco, I'm quite certain that's it's indisputable that Garp is quite beyond him. Garp may be old but he's not sick like WB was. Marco is generally a difficult opponent for anyone due to his DF abilities but he's not at a level where he can defeat admirals or the likes of Garp.
That is somewhat inconsistent. The difference between doflamingo was by no means slight or even small. Doflamingo proved beyond doubt that he was on every single account immensely more powerful than luffy. Even after having fought sanji, law and luffy and taken powerful attacks from luffy and law doflamingo was able to basically breeze through luffy's gear 2 and 3. He practically did not feel luffy's gear 2 and gear 3 was practically slow motion for him. And when luffy used gear 4 doflamingo survived and was the one in a position where he could defeat luffy.

Why? During the war marco fought almost exclusively the likes of admirals and the likes of garp. Even the gorosei acknowledged him as one of the few people whom at the time they thought could put a stop to BB. Garp is obviously a powerhouse but even then he is past his prime, whereas marco would be in his prime.
 

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It's might be true right now but 2 years ago Garp was stronger and out of Marco's reach 25 years ago.

Luffy must be as strong as Garp during the war so that he might have some small chance winning against Kaidou or BM. If Luff's G4 can't KO Marco then he's over because the phoenix can heal itself against almost every types of physical damage while Luffy is running out of steam after a short period of time.
 
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It's might be true right now but 2 years ago Garp was stronger and out of Marco's reach 25 years ago.

Luffy must be as strong as Garp during the war so that he might have some small chance winning against Kaidou or BM. If Luff's G4 can't KO Marco then he's over because the phoenix can heal itself against almost every types of physical damage while Luffy is running out of steam after a short period of time.
2 years ago we saw garp literally throw a single punch, it is nowhere near enough to suggest garp is that much stronger. If WB's second in command was that much weaker than a marine veteran past his prime then to begin with the WB pirates would not have been that much of a threat.

Also, it's unlikely that current luffy is as strong as garp two years ago. Remember how BB did against sengoku? It's a pretty bad scenario all around for luffy even currently. Luffy is nowhere near the top of the world when it comes to strength. Garp is past his prime but his strength at his prime was that of an actual admiral, even if his strength has decreased due to age it's unlikely to have been that much.
 

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Luffy would lose to Marco given Marco's power, devil fruit, and the feat he's shown against the admirals. Took being distracted to get him in handcuffs. Unfortunately, we don't know how Luffy would have fared against an uninjured Doflamingo given he was havin problems with the injured one.
 

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That is somewhat inconsistent. The difference between doflamingo was by no means slight or even small. Doflamingo proved beyond doubt that he was on every single account immensely more powerful than luffy. Even after having fought sanji, law and luffy and taken powerful attacks from luffy and law doflamingo was able to basically breeze through luffy's gear 2 and 3. He practically did not feel luffy's gear 2 and gear 3 was practically slow motion for him. And when luffy used gear 4 doflamingo survived and was the one in a position where he could defeat luffy.
It's not really inconsistent. When Luffy got into Gear 4, he was clearly superior. DD did manage to hold out long enough for Gear 4 to go out. DD proved he was more powerful than Luffy in general but he was inferior to Gear 4. I didn't say Luffy was stronger than DD though. I said Luffy should still be beneath Marco with Marco probably being a little stronger than DD and Sabo.

Why? During the war marco fought almost exclusively the likes of admirals and the likes of garp. Even the gorosei acknowledged him as one of the few people whom at the time they thought could put a stop to BB. Garp is obviously a powerhouse but even then he is past his prime, whereas marco would be in his prime.
Because we have a panel of he and vista attacking Akainu (who had taken powerful blows from WB at the time) and he barely felt their attacks. BB was not on admiral level. Yes Marco was one of those with the possibility of stopping BB although that wasn't solely based on strength. Obviously crew size and knowledge came into play considering Marco had taken over he WB Pirates and would have control over the whole crew as well as knowledge of their territories. BB himself fled with his entire crew (ID level 6 inmates included) when he heard Akainu was sent. Garp on the other hand wasn't just admiral level. He was placed in the league of Roger and WB which is as high as it gets. An ill and old WB performed far better against the admirals than Marco or any of the others did and Garp was in even better condition (seeing as he wasn't ill or anything).
 
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It's not really inconsistent. When Luffy got into Gear 4, he was clearly superior. DD did manage to hold out long enough for Gear 4 to go out. DD proved he was more powerful than Luffy in general but he was inferior to Gear 4. I didn't say Luffy was stronger than DD though. I said Luffy should still be beneath Marco with Marco probably being a little stronger than DD and Sabo.



Because we have a panel of he and vista attacking Akainu (who had taken powerful blows from WB at the time) and he barely felt their attacks. BB was not on admiral level. Yes Marco was one of those with the possibility of stopping BB although that wasn't solely based on strength. Obviously crew size and knowledge came into play considering Marco had taken over he WB Pirates and would have control over the whole crew as well as knowledge of their territories. BB himself fled with his entire crew (ID level 6 inmates included) when he heard Akainu was sent. Garp on the other hand wasn't just admiral level. He was placed in the league of Roger and WB which is as high as it gets. An ill and old WB performed far better against the admirals than Marco or any of the others did and Garp was in even better condition (seeing as he wasn't ill or anything).
But that does not take into account that while luffy was indeed tired from fighting, doflamingo had been involved in multiple fights and his insides were held together because of the makeshift stitching he did after law's final attack. Can you imagine how luffy's gear 4 would have performed against doflamingo if doflamingo hadn't been in such poor shape? The difference between luffy and doflamingo was immense even with gear 4 taken in consideration.

Saying he barely felt the attack is perhaps a tad much considering he made the point that he was up against haki users. And even then, marco seemed to be in worst condition that akainu even when considering WB's attacks against him. Marco had been fighting longer as encountered multiple fighters including admirals. The war as a whole placed the WB pirates at a handicap considering they were the ones attacking a heavily fortified and prepared fortress.

Was garp placed at that level of strength? He was obviously pretty strong but the implication was that he cornered roger a few times. Which in context does not necessarily mean he was a match in terms of power. Not to mention that he has never done anything which suggest he is capable of feats of strength that could match the stuff we have seen from the likes of WB. Even sengoku who seems to be regarded similarly to garp did not really do anything even close to what WB did during the war. He did fight BB and his crew but even then it did not seem like he matched what we saw from WB... To compare the situation, imagine the strawhats being chased by smoker. Smoker is clearly weaker than luffy but if you add a battleship or two into the mix (which even now remain a force to be reckoned with) it's by no means impossible or a stretch for smoker to also corner luffy, crew and all. And then luffy escapes.
 

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Just right after Roger execution, WB was the only strong pirate in NW, the remaining of the yonkou hasn't shown up yet, the WG could order both Garp + Sengoku to shut down WB pirate if WB was only as strong as those 2, Kizaru+Akainu+Aokiji could take care Marco & others. Either Garp + Sengoku couldn't do the job or Garp refused the order and Sengoku was weaker than WB.

Anyway, even if Luffy manages to climb the phoenix wall, there are several more: Garp wall, Garp+Sengoku wall etc...
 

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But that does not take into account that while luffy was indeed tired from fighting, doflamingo had been involved in multiple fights and his insides were held together because of the makeshift stitching he did after law's final attack. Can you imagine how luffy's gear 4 would have performed against doflamingo if doflamingo hadn't been in such poor shape? The difference between luffy and doflamingo was immense even with gear 4 taken in consideration.
Well DD himself acknowledged Luffy was faster even before using Gear 4. Honestly, I disagree that there's a large gap between DD and Luffy. It simply doesn't follow what we've seen. Luffy needed 41 minutes of Gear 4 to defeat DD. He ran out of haki at 40 but what if Luffy hadn't been fighting and using haki prior to that? Even the time spent tanking Bellamy's attacks to save his pride instead of simply knocking him out involved him using haki.
This is just reminiscent of Luffy vs Lucci tbh. Lucci was leagues out of luffy's level when they first met. With Gear 2, Luffy closed the gap reasonably. With Gear 3, Luffy smashed him out of the water. Both situations involved the initially superior opponent being forced on the defensive. Luffy spent ages running around and using haki as well as his gears pretty much every time. Imagine if he and DD tangled while fresh and Luffy started out with Gear 4. You'd have him smashing DD about and in the worst case scenario, he'd run out of time before he can defeat DD but would've done more severe damage on DD. Enough for it to be considered a close battle.


Saying he barely felt the attack is perhaps a tad much considering he made the point that he was up against haki users. And even then, marco seemed to be in worst condition that akainu even when considering WB's attacks against him. Marco had been fighting longer as encountered multiple fighters including admirals. The war as a whole placed the WB pirates at a handicap considering they were the ones attacking a heavily fortified and prepared fortress.
Well Akainu did say it was a bother. It's manga speak for something more annoying/in the way than effective. Not sure how Marco was in worse condition. Marco got some kizaru lasers but Akainu tangled with WB for most of the time and was on the receiving end of WB's fury when Ace died. Sure Akainu seemed better off but that's because he's that much stronger. He fought a stronger opponent after all. Also, Akainu was never idle. He was always involved in a fight against one or multiple opponents. At the end, he's basically fighting Jinbei and WB's commanders on his own and he had then on the defensive.

Well the WB pirates might have been attacking a fortress but you could say the same for the marines. They had to guard against an avalanche of raging fighters. First it was WB then Luffy and his ID gang. Furthermore, they were supposed to ensure Ace wasn't saved.

Was garp placed at that level of strength? He was obviously pretty strong but the implication was that he cornered roger a few times. Which in context does not necessarily mean he was a match in terms of power. Not to mention that he has never done anything which suggest he is capable of feats of strength that could match the stuff we have seen from the likes of WB. Even sengoku who seems to be regarded similarly to garp did not really do anything even close to what WB did during the war. He did fight BB and his crew but even then it did not seem like he matched what we saw from WB... To compare the situation, imagine the strawhats being chased by smoker. Smoker is clearly weaker than luffy but if you add a battleship or two into the mix (which even now remain a force to be reckoned with) it's by no means impossible or a stretch for smoker to also corner luffy, crew and all. And then luffy escapes.
Well asides that, Garp has been stated to be Roger's rival as well. We even have WB acknowledging Garp and Sengoku while still referring to the likes of Akainu and Aokiji as brats. The point about Garp cornering Roger is a fair one as even I have considered that it doesn't indicate they are the same level of strength but Garp has also been referred to as Roger's rival. Even Roger says as much here:


That indicates that Garp was able to match his strength.
 

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Well DD himself acknowledged Luffy was faster even before using Gear 4. Honestly, I disagree that there's a large gap between DD and Luffy. It simply doesn't follow what we've seen. Luffy needed 41 minutes of Gear 4 to defeat DD. He ran out of haki at 40 but what if Luffy hadn't been fighting and using haki prior to that? Even the time spent tanking Bellamy's attacks to save his pride instead of simply knocking him out involved him using haki.
This is just reminiscent of Luffy vs Lucci tbh. Lucci was leagues out of luffy's level when they first met. With Gear 2, Luffy closed the gap reasonably. With Gear 3, Luffy smashed him out of the water. Both situations involved the initially superior opponent being forced on the defensive. Luffy spent ages running around and using haki as well as his gears pretty much every time. Imagine if he and DD tangled while fresh and Luffy started out with Gear 4. You'd have him smashing DD about and in the worst case scenario, he'd run out of time before he can defeat DD but would've done more severe damage on DD. Enough for it to be considered a close battle.




Well Akainu did say it was a bother. It's manga speak for something more annoying/in the way than effective. Not sure how Marco was in worse condition. Marco got some kizaru lasers but Akainu tangled with WB for most of the time and was on the receiving end of WB's fury when Ace died. Sure Akainu seemed better off but that's because he's that much stronger. He fought a stronger opponent after all. Also, Akainu was never idle. He was always involved in a fight against one or multiple opponents. At the end, he's basically fighting Jinbei and WB's commanders on his own and he had then on the defensive.

Well the WB pirates might have been attacking a fortress but you could say the same for the marines. They had to guard against an avalanche of raging fighters. First it was WB then Luffy and his ID gang. Furthermore, they were supposed to ensure Ace wasn't saved.



Well asides that, Garp has been stated to be Roger's rival as well. We even have WB acknowledging Garp and Sengoku while still referring to the likes of Akainu and Aokiji as brats. The point about Garp cornering Roger is a fair one as even I have considered that it doesn't indicate they are the same level of strength but Garp has also been referred to as Roger's rival. Even Roger says as much here:


That indicates that Garp was able to match his strength.
Doflaming admitted luffy's gear 2 was fast but he also made the point it barely tickled him. And gear 3 was powerful but it moved at turtle pace from doflamingo's perspective. It is true that luffy had been fighting for a while but that is also true for doflamingo who not only took a few punches but took law's gama knife. Doflamingo's insides were in no form or context healed, they were merely stitched together by his ability. It's damage far beyond anything luffy took through all of dressrosa. And even with his insides split cleanly in half and stitched together luffy's gear 4 was not enough to finish doflamingo. So what happens if full powered luffy fights doflamingo whose insides are not cut cleanly in half? It's luffy who is at a disadvantage in this scenario. Anything before gear 4 is by all intents and purposes useless against doflamingo and gear 4 doesn't last enough for it to do the trick. The absolute worst case scenario for doflamingo is invariably to take some punches from luffy and once lufyf runs out of juice doflamingo has a full 10 minutes to whatever he wants until he has to finish off luffy. There is no scenario under which luffy is really a threat to doflamingo on his own, the only reason he managed to pull a win here was because of all the help luffy had in this ridiculous battle of attrition. Both starting fresh is an scenario that invariably benefits, significantly at that, doflamingo.

You can't say that for the marines. It was the marines who set the stage and built every countermeasure they could. It was the pirates who had to advance through all of that. And even them advancing at all was luck due to oar's stupid mistake working to the pirate's advantage and allowing them to advance to the plaza. For all intents and purposes the marines had the highground during the war.

Neither really needs to have been as strong as the other to have nearly killed the other. In context roger was supposed to be an actual match to WB and so far we have yet to see someone that could match that. Garp has not shown all his stuff but at least nothing yet suggests he could have taken on WB. Even in his old age WB had the upperhand against most people he fought. Garp was a high ranking marine, which means he had high ranking subordinates and battleships at his disposal, there are plenty of circumstances where he could have been in a position to almost kill roger. Take smoker, he is nowhere near as strong as luffy right now but it is not impossible for smoker to be in a position where he could potentially capture or almost kill luffy (though he would at least need more manpower than he has now). I also don't buy garp really being a match to roger and roger consistently escaping or otherwise eluding garp. It makes more sense that roger had the upperhand.
 

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I still say Marco would beat Luffy, especially since his devil fruit makes it nearly hard to land wounds that stay. I won't claim that Marco is superior because he fared better against the admirals when his devil fruit was better suited, unlike Luffy's.
 

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I still say Marco would beat Luffy, especially since his devil fruit makes it nearly hard to land wounds that stay. I won't claim that Marco is superior because he fared better against the admirals when his devil fruit was better suited, unlike Luffy's.
The key would be this
Can Luffys gear 4 be able to knockout Marco fast enough to prevent Marco from healing.

Currently Marco has 0 feats that prove he can tank Yonko level haki imbued attacks, where as Luffy has proven to beat logia users and Yonko Commanders.

Im giving this to Marco at the moment, but im afraid its mostly due to Marcos reknown and not on feats. I think Luffy is Yonko commander level, but not Top Commander level and Marco was Whitebeard's #2

Thoughts?
 

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I highly doubt it unless Luffy continuously attacks Marco. I mean, Marco was penetrated by Kizaru's light beam multiple times and he was still fighting, and even with sea prism cuffs on, the penetration didn't take Marco out.

I'm basing my decision on feats, and Marco fared better against the admirals than Luffy. Luffy doesn't seem to be a Yonkou commander level given his difficulty and inability to beat Doflamingo and Cracker on his own.
 

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Marco murks Luffy. The last chapter only reinforced that for me.
 

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Its too late in the game for Luffy not to be at least Yonko Commander level.
 

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i disagree luffy is yonko commander level just that he isnt stronger than certain commanders u can be on the same tier but be weaker than certain characters . 2. luffy loses to marco mid high-high low diff
 

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I would think luffy has 0 chance here. Marco was effectively WB's first mate, a man acknowledged by the gorosei as having the potential to stop BB (though he didn't) and overall held his ground very well against admirals during the war. The admirals did get the better of him however there is also the issue that admirals had an advantageous position here since pirates were on the attack and marines were defending a well prepared fortress. Defeating marco is a far bigger feat than defeating the likes of doflamingo. This would be like luffy defeating jack, katakuri, smoothie... Luffy should still be outclassed here. Luffy's stamina didn't last enough to beat doflamingo whose insides were at best stitched up, I don't see how gear 4 would even last enough against a monster like marco who on top of everything regenerates. Marco could literally just stand there for an hour, wait for gear 4 to run out and then casually end luffy. Which in all fairness even doflamingo could have done. Luffy as we have seen him so far doesn't have even 1% chance of winning.
 
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