Discussion Maschenny is one of the "Players"

Maschenny is:

  • A pawn

  • A servant

  • An assistant

  • An accomplice

  • A pawn that thinks she's a Player

  • A Player


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Cinera

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Introduction
There seems to be a very pervasive opinion in the fandom that Maschenny is nothing but a pawn, servant or puppet of one of the Family Leaders. That's she's nothing but a mere piece on their gameboard.

I find this opinion very vexing (it denies Maschenny of any actual agency) and am especially annoyed by it, because there's no solid basis for it in the actual Webtoon.

When I actually review Maschenny's scenes in the Webtoon, all I find is a mountain of evidence against it.



Maschenny's Agency
When she talks about her machinations schemes and stratagems, it's always her will:
  • Her desires
    • "I've been reading the Ancient books for a long time, waiting for the moment those battles will take place before my eyes. Compared to back then, the current peace seems so trivial and dull—":
    • "Ah, that's right, maybe I'm just a nut who can't live without bloodshed and fighting":
    • "I don't want this story to have a boring ending":
    • "I want it to keep going until it becomes a bit more interesting":
  • Her goals
    • "My goal... isn't much different from yours. What you want is what I want. I just thinkI need to shed a bit more 'blood' for the sake of my goal!!":
    • "I told you. You and I want the same thing. I just think a bit more 'blood' needs to be spilled":
  • Her expectations
    • "Rage will lead you to battle. I want you to become a vast wave of anger like you've never seen before":
    • "I wonder if that boy will be able to satisfy my expectations. I wonder":
  • Her anticipations
    • "I feel bad saying this when everyone is out there fighting so hard... But having that kid here is way more exciting":
  • Her curiosity
    • "But for some strange reason... Seeing him... Reminds me of my Father":
  • Her plans and actions
    • "That's right. I want to make a bet with my Yellow May and your Green April":
    • "I won't tell you the reason I'm after the Green April, but I'm suggesting this to you because I really need it too":
    • "I'll let him live a bit longer. I can't just let some valuable bait of the hook":
    • "I'm going to make this Tower a bloody mess":
    • "So what do you think I'm up to?":
    • "That's why I raised the stakes":
    • "That's why I've kept you alive this long":
    • "I'm the mastermind who entrapped Jinsung Ha and lured you all here":

As you can see, every time Maschenny does something, or talks about something she's done or plans to do, the focus is only on what she wants. There has never once been a reference to what someone else wants.

She has only ever been working for her own ends.



Contra Servant Maschenny
I think that the idea that Maschenny is operating at the Nest in service to one of the Family Leaders is heavily contradicted in the Webtoon.

When speaking to Jinsung, she said that the game became bigger than she expected and that people not even she could handle became actively involved:


She goes on to say that as a result, she kept Jinsung alive and brought him to the Nest. As he was like a breakwater for Baam and an important member of the Ha Family:


The look of fear and despair on her face when she says the above seems genuine.


If Maschenny was working in service to an Irregular:
  • She'd never have commented on the game becoming too big for her when the Irregulars got involved.
    • She wouldn't be a Player in the first place, but merely a piece or helper of one of the Players.
  • She wouldn't be so terrified when the Irregulars got involved as she has (a) suitable backer(s)/supporter(s) .
  • She wouldn't need to prepare her own countermeasures to an Irregular getting involved as her supporter(s) would presumably handle it.



In Favour of Player Maschenny
I think that it has been made sufficiently clear that Maschenny is a Player in her own right. I'll cover the evidence in favour below.


At the start of the Nest, she commented that while Baam currently does not have much power, his mere existence is shaking the board already:
Adios said:
I do wonder, if they are going to come.

I wonder what the Irregular can even do here.

He may be weak, but his mere existence is shaking the board already.
The chessboard metaphor is interesting, and brings to mind the scenario of a chess game with Players and pieces.

Maschenny seemingly considers herself one of the Players.


Jinsung listed her alongside the Zahard Army and 10 Great Families as the main forces/actors behind the Nest:

Note that Maschenny by herself, merits this distinction.


She tells Jinsung that she wouldn't tell him what she's up to, but that she doesn't want Baam's story to come to a boring end, that she wants to see it continue to become even more interesting and so she raised the stakes:


She mentioned that the game suddenly became much bigger and now there are people involved that not even she can handle:

Again, the implication is that she's sitting at the same board as the Family Leaders and Zahard, but they are even bigger forces than her.


She reveals that she's the mastermind behind the Nest:

She literally takes credit for setting up the game board on this battlefield.


And that her purpose is the same as the other Players. They want to obtain the special card called "an Irregular" and use it however they please:

Again, she groups herself with the Players.


She tells Baam and his allies that they are not strong enough or great enough to side with her (or any of the other Players):

Again, Maschenny implicitly groups herself among the Players.


She goes on to say that Baam's group are only fit to become pawns. And then asks them if they want to become her pawns:

Yet again, she implies that she's one of the Players on the game board.



Conclusions
Maschenny clearly presents herself as a Player in her own right. And as of now, there has been no other presentation of her in the Webtoon.

The idea that she's just a pawn serving one of the true Players has no substance in the Webtoon.

It's a headcanon rooted solely in the fetishism of the Irregulars.

Maschenny may be the smallest Player at the table, but she's still one among them. At least, that's what the story is currently telling us.





 
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lazybum

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I agree Maschenny is moving of her own agency, and worked towards her own goal and has been doing so since the beginning of TOG (we did see her early, with Yuri visiting Repellista, the LPB princesses are in her faction, the bet with Yuri and perhaps getting her imprisoned, the Nest arc). She is a player for sure, as her actions moves the plot, but being a player doesn't stop being made into a pawn, whether it's in her knowledge or not. Khel believed he was some sort of player (he thought he could lead his group to Jahad and kill him, and he thought he could make a Slayer puppet & deal with the Irregular Baam), and twice Jahad proved him wrong. She is making a pawn out of Baam, though she's probably counting on him getting stronger and be an actual threat to other Irregulars as well, Baam wouldn't be under her forever (but then she may have achieve her goal by then).

So Player yes, but her position is weak, much like Baam right now. Like Rachel, I think she wants to use Baam as her spear, like Baam is her only opportunity to achieve whatever her goal is (she's risking her position just to use Baam, rather than relying on other plans that won't expose her).
 

Cinera

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I agree Maschenny is moving of her own agency, and worked towards her own goal and has been doing so since the beginning of TOG (we did see her early, with Yuri visiting Repellista, the LPB princesses are in her faction, the bet with Yuri and perhaps getting her imprisoned, the Nest arc). She is a player for sure, as her actions moves the plot, but being a player doesn't stop being made into a pawn, whether it's in her knowledge or not. Khel believed he was some sort of player (he thought he could lead his group to Jahad and kill him, and he thought he could make a Slayer puppet & deal with the Irregular Baam), and twice Jahad proved him wrong. She is making a pawn out of Baam, though she's probably counting on him getting stronger and be an actual threat to other Irregulars as well, Baam wouldn't be under her forever (but then she may have achieve her goal by then).

So Player yes, but her position is weak, much like Baam right now. Like Rachel, I think she wants to use Baam as her spear, like Baam is her only opportunity to achieve whatever her goal is (she's risking her position just to use Baam, rather than relying on other plans that won't expose her).
Well the difference is that SIU himself is hyping Maschenny:
  • Season 3 Episode 99 (Jinsung): "I thought she was just a young water snake who likes to fight... But she's a python too big to remain in the sea" .
  • Season 3 Episode 103 Blog Post (SIU): "Mascheny feels like a dangerous lake because she is so deep and dark".


You can also compare their performance:
  • Khel Hellam was repeatedly absolutely humiliated by Zahard and given lifelong PTSD.
  • Maschenny just outmaneuvered Traumerei and is playing the entire Lo Po Bia Family for fools.

It really doesn't sound to me like SIU intends for Maschenny to be someone like Khel.


Honestly, comparing an elite member of the Zahard Family to an elite member of FUG is a disrespect to the Zahards; they don't have FUG's incessant loss streak.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

So Player yes, but her position is weak, much like Baam right now.
I disagree that her position is like Baam's. She told Baam that he was only fit to become a pawn to hers. Her position isn't comparable to the Great Warriors, but it's much better than someone like Baam's.

Like Rachel, I think she wants to use Baam as her spear, like Baam is her only opportunity to achieve whatever her goal is (she's risking her position just to use Baam, rather than relying on other plans that won't expose her).
Well, I think that she wants to kill Zahard:



She has the same goal as Jinsung, and they want the same thing.
 

Theorist05

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I still feel like someone is going to use Maschenny’s plans against her(not like Khell) but maybe there will be an anomaly (probably another Irregular) or Bam might do something unexpected.
 

King Dryst

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In the end, any of the real Irregulars can zero-diff her. If she has any 'agency' then it's only because it amuses them to allow it, and it can be taken away in an instant. She just doesn't have the strength to enforce the kind of independence you want her to have.
 

lazybum

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It really doesn't sound to me like SIU intends for Maschenny to be someone like Khel.
My issue is Rei being too inactive, we don't have an insight to his thought. SIU still can spring something from him and make a show why the Irregular is still an important component of TOG.

Honestly, comparing an elite member of the Zahard Family to an elite member of FUG is a disrespect to the Zahards; they don't have FUG's incessant loss streak.
Fair point. Though now it may change because of Baam. Baam doesn't want to work with FUG, but now his situation is dire, I'd say he may as well use FUG to protect his people. He did willingly work with White (someone he hates), Karaka (ex enemy), Yama (who wanted to melt Baam) even if he didn't like it.

I disagree that her position is like Baam's. She told Baam that he was only fit to become a pawn to hers. Her position isn't comparable to the Great Warriors, but it's much better than someone like Baam's.
Before betraying Zahard and LPB, yes I agree. Now her position is no different than Baam IMO. She may have allies, but as you have shown she is still wary about Jahad/Great family, she will be a fugitive/criminal (unless she has a plan to cover her betrayal though I have my doubt, there are 2 errors she committed : Jinsung being free, and Baam being free). If she's captured she's gonna be treated like Yuri I guess, not exactly free.

Well, I think that she wants to kill Zahard:
Yeah you've told me this in another topic and I agree it's a reasonable take.
 

Bane-4U

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Introduction
There seems to be a very pervasive opinion in the fandom that Maschenny is nothing but a pawn, servant or puppet of one of the Family Leaders. That's she's nothing but a mere piece on their gameboard.

I find this opinion very vexing (it denies Maschenny of any actual agency) and am especially annoyed by it, because there's no solid basis for it in the actual Webtoon.

When I actually review Maschenny's scenes in the Webtoon, all I find is a mountain of evidence against it.



Maschenny's Agency
When she talks about her machinations schemes and stratagems, it's always her will:
  • Her desires
    • "I've been reading the Ancient books for a long time, waiting for the moment those battles will take place before my eyes. Compared to back then, the current peace seems so trivial and dull—":
    • "Ah, that's right, maybe I'm just a nut who can't live without bloodshed and fighting":
    • "I don't want this story to have a boring ending":
    • "I want it to keep going until it becomes a bit more interesting":
  • Her goals
    • "My goal... isn't much different from yours. What you want is what I want. I just thinkI need to shed a bit more 'blood' for the sake of my goal!!":
    • "I told you. You and I want the same thing. I just think a bit more 'blood' needs to be spilled":
  • Her expectations
    • "Rage will lead you to battle. I want you to become a vast wave of anger like you've never seen before":
    • "I wonder if that boy will be able to satisfy my expectations. I wonder":
  • Her anticipations
    • "I feel bad saying this when everyone is out there fighting so hard... But having that kid here is way more exciting":
  • Her curiosity
    • "But for some strange reason... Seeing him... Reminds me of my Father":
  • Her plans and actions
    • "That's right. I want to make a bet with my Yellow May and your Green April":
    • "I won't tell you the reason I'm after the Green April, but I'm suggesting this to you because I really need it too":
    • "I'll let him live a bit longer. I can't just let some valuable bait of the hook":
    • "I'm going to make this Tower a bloody mess":
    • "So what do you think I'm up to?":
    • "That's why I raised the stakes":
    • "That's why I've kept you alive this long":
    • "I'm the mastermind who entrapped Jinsung Ha and lured you all here":

As you can see, every time Maschenny does something, or talks about something she's done or plans to do, the focus is only on what she wants. There has never once been a reference to what someone else wants.

She has only ever been working for her own ends.



Contra Servant Maschenny
I think that the idea that Maschenny is operating at the Nest in service to one of the Family Leaders is heavily contradicted in the Webtoon.

When speaking to Jinsung, she said that the game became bigger than she expected and that people not even she could handle became actively involved:


She goes on to say that as a result, she kept Jinsung alive and brought him to the Nest. As he was like a breakwater for Baam and an important member of the Ha Family:


The look of fear and despair on her face when she says the above seems genuine.


If Maschenny was working in service to an Irregular:
  • She'd never have commented on the game becoming too big for her when the Irregulars got involved.
    • She wouldn't be a Player in the first place, but merely a piece or helper of one of the Players.
  • She wouldn't be so terrified when the Irregulars got involved as she has (a) suitable backer(s)/supporter(s) .
  • She wouldn't need to prepare her own countermeasures to an Irregular getting involved as her supporter(s) would presumably handle it.



In Favour of Player Maschenny
I think that it has been made sufficiently clear that Maschenny is a Player in her own right. I'll cover the evidence in favour below.


At the start of the Nest, she commented that while Baam currently does not have much power, his mere existence is shaking the board already:


The chessboard metaphor is interesting, and brings to mind the scenario of a chess game with Players and pieces.

Maschenny seemingly considers herself one of the Players.


Jinsung listed her alongside the Zahard Army and 10 Great Families as the main forces/actors behind the Nest:

Note that Maschenny by herself, merits this distinction.


She tells Jinsung that she wouldn't tell him what she's up to, but that she doesn't want Baam's story to come to a boring end, that she wants to see it continue to become even more interesting and so she raised the stakes:


She mentioned that the game suddenly became much bigger and now there are people involved that not even she can handle:

Again, the implication is that she's sitting at the same board as the Family Leaders and Zahard, but they are even bigger forces than her.


She reveals that she's the mastermind behind the Nest:

She literally takes credit for setting up the game board on this battlefield.


And that her purpose is the same as the other Players. They want to obtain the special card called "an Irregular" and use it however they please:

Again, she groups herself with the Players.


She tells Baam and his allies that they are not strong enough or great enough to side with her (or any of the other Players):

Again, Maschenny implicitly groups herself among the Players.


She goes on to say that Baam's group are only fit to become pawns. And then asks them if they want to become her pawns:

Yet again, she implies that she's one of the Players on the game board.



Conclusions
Maschenny clearly presents herself as a Player in her own right. And as of now, there has been no other presentation of her in the Webtoon.

The idea that she's just a pawn serving one of the true Players has no substance in the Webtoon.

It's a headcanon rooted solely in the fetishism of the Irregulars.

Maschenny may be the smallest Player at the table, but she's still one among them. At least, that's what the story is currently telling us.





Based? Based.
 

Cinera

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In the end, any of the real Irregulars can zero-diff her. If she has any 'agency' then it's only because it amuses them to allow it, and it can be taken away in an instant. She just doesn't have the strength to enforce the kind of independence you want her to have.
She's playing Traumerei for a fool right now at the Nest. He doesn't know that:
  • She released Jinsung.
  • Did not capture Baam.
  • Is using Baam to raid his Treasure Vault.


It simply seems like the Irregulars aren't as infallible or irreproachable as the fandom believes.


She's lacking in personal strength compared to the Irregulars, but she's fully aware of that.



Before betraying Zahard and LPB, yes I agree. Now her position is no different than Baam IMO. She may have allies, but as you have shown she is still wary about Jahad/Great family, she will be a fugitive/criminal (unless she has a plan to cover her betrayal though I have my doubt, there are 2 errors she committed : Jinsung being free, and Baam being free). If she's captured she's gonna be treated like Yuri I guess, not exactly free.
Aah, I don't agree here.

I do agree that Maschenny is openly committing treason, but I expect that she would leave the Nest with her position of power intact. I have no idea how she accomplishes it, I just think that her role as an arch rival to Yuri requires her to remain in power until at least her confrontation with Yuri.

And well, Maschenny is backstabbing the Lo Po Bia Family, moreso than she is betraying the Zahard Army. The dynamics are different. The Lo Po Bia Family have no actual jurisdiction over her and can't punish her as she's a VVIP of the Khun and Zahard Families.


If for example Adori doesn't approve of the Lo Po Bia Family waging war on the Po Bidau Family and Maschenny sabotages that deal, it would be very unlikely that Adori would consider Maschenny's actions treasonous. Hell, she may even be grateful for it.

This is just one way it can be done. There are many other explanations for why Maschenny wouldn't be exiled from the Zahard Family or imprisoned including something as simple as not wanting to worsen tensions between the Khun and Zahard Families.


Whatever happens though, I simply don't see Maschenny being stripped of her power and influence at the end of the Nest. Her role in the story just requires her to retain it.
 

EternalWinter

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Is she playing Trau or is Eduan?

the seal needed both Vincente and Baam to open. She didn’t plan for that.
 

Cinera

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Is she playing Trau or is Eduan?
There's absolutely zero evidence that Eduan's hand is involved in Maschenny's actions.

The only thing that sort of suggests it is Asensio, but Asensio's loyalties are explicitly to Maschenny first and foremost.
 
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kkck

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Welp, mascheny doing stuff of her own will and having plans unrelated to what her superiors want doesn't mean she isn't a mere pawn for people at the level of the family heads. We saw how things turned out with khel hellam... Mascheny is a big shot at the normal tower resident level but odds are she is as worthless and disposable as whichever other turd in the tower when it comes to family heads. It wouldn't be weird that all of mascheny's treason and schemes simply play into what zahard wants.
 

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Welp, mascheny doing stuff of her own will and having plans unrelated to what her superiors want doesn't mean she isn't a mere pawn for people at the level of the family heads. We saw how things turned out with khel hellam... Mascheny is a big shot at the normal tower resident level but odds are she is as worthless and disposable as whichever other turd in the tower when it comes to family heads. It wouldn't be weird that all of mascheny's treason and schemes simply play into what zahard wants.
  1. Maschenny is currently misleading Traumerei.
  2. There's zero indication at all that Maschenny is a pawn to the Family Leaders.
  3. Maschenny hasn't been portrayed as "nothing" compared to the Family Leaders.
    • In the one occasion she compared herself to them, she said that they are people that even she cannot handle.
    • Compare that to other characters at the Nest:
      • White called himself an insignificant soul.
      • Evankhell called herself a small fry.
      • Lyborick called himself nothing.
      • Yasratcha called himself and Yama nothing but mere trifles.
    • This is interesting, because Maschenny should be more intimately familiar with the power of the Irregulars than any of the above.
      • She's a direct descendant of Eduan and one of his favourite children.
      • She's a Princess of Zahard.

Someone of Jinsung's calibre admits that she's an existence far bigger than he had ever imagined:


Mind you, Ha Jinsung says this while knowing that Maschenny is fucking around with a Family Leader.
 

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  1. Maschenny is currently misleading Traumerei.
  2. There's zero indication at all that Maschenny is a pawn to the Family Leaders.
  3. Maschenny hasn't been portrayed as "nothing" compared to the Family Leaders.
    • In the one occasion she compared herself to them, she said that they are people that even she cannot handle.
    • Compare that to other characters at the Nest:
      • White called himself an insignificant soul.
      • Evankhell called herself a small fry.
      • Lyborick called himself nothing.
      • Yasratcha called himself and Yama nothing but mere trifles.
    • This is interesting, because Maschenny should be more intimately familiar with the power of the Irregulars than any of the above.
      • She's a direct descendant of Eduan and one of his favourite children.
      • She's a Princess of Zahard.

Someone of Jinsung's calibre admits that she's an existence far bigger than he had ever imagined:


Mind you, Ha Jinsung says this while knowing that Maschenny is fucking around with a Family Leader.
1.- Sure?
2.- But.... at a bare minimum she serves them. And my point was different from that. That regardless of her schemes and plans it's entirely within the realm of possibility that all of it falls within the expectations of some grander machination. Just consider what happened with khel hellam... His foresight was anticipated/manipulated by zahard which lead to the events at the walls of coexistence which also lead to the current war. Mascheny and the army have taken advantage of this developments... But at a minimum zahard's hand is fairly visible in all of it. Of course it wouldn't be willingly but it's rather likely mascheny is as small or smaller a player than khel hellam in all of this.
3.- I don't see how this adds up to mascheny not being nothing to a family head. I would argue we should take it as a fact that mascheny is as worthless and expendable to family heads as any other random tower born turd until the series definitively proves otherwise.
 

Jubei_Kibagami

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I'd like to pick more than two. Even a limit of two options is too binary IMO.

Mas is a lot of things to a lot of people.
 

Cinera

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1.- Sure?
Maschenny misleading Traumerei is strong indication against the notion that she is "a mere pawn for people at the level of the family heads".


But.... at a bare minimum she serves them
No, not really. There is no indication that Maschenny serves anyone but herself. Like really no indication. Maschenny serving any of the Great Warriors is heavy headcanon territory.


Just consider what happened with khel hellam... His foresight was anticipated/manipulated by zahard which lead to the events at the walls of coexistence which also lead to the current war. Mascheny and the army have taken advantage of this developments... But at a minimum zahard's hand is fairly visible in all of it. Of course it wouldn't be willingly but it's rather likely mascheny is as small or smaller a player than khel hellam in all of this.
LMAO at the notion that Maschenny is an existence comparable to Khel Hellam. Get back to me when Khel Hellam plays an entire Great Family (including their leader) for fools.

It's almost certainly not the case that Maschenny is in the same realm of existence as Khel Hellam. For starters, she has done far more than Khel Hellam. All of the following events were schemed, manipulated or otherwise involved her:
  • The Name Hunt Station
    • Lilial and Shilial were working with her.
  • Jinsung vs Kallavan
    • Setup via her conversation with Jinsung
  • Baam vs Kallavan
    • It only happened because Maschenny interrupted the Jinsung vs Kallavan fight (thus releasing Kallavan to go to the Last Station).
    • It only happened because Baam wanted to get revenge for Jinsung.
  • Baam rallying FUG (Evankhell, Yama, Karaka, etc.)
    • Jinsung outright says this
  • FUG storming the Nest
    • Jinsung says this
    • She says this as well herself
  • The Khun's alliance with the Lo Po Bia Family
    • Yorari mentions a promise between their Families

The following future events would also have been instigated by her:
  • Baam releasing Acrinak
  • Baam vs Traumerei
  • The downfall of the Lo Po Bia Family

Alternatively, call me when someone of Jinsung's calibre says this about Khel Hellam:


Khel Hellam shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Maschenny.


3.- I don't see how this adds up to mascheny not being nothing to a family head. I would argue we should take it as a fact that mascheny is as worthless and expendable to family heads as any other random tower born turd until the series definitively proves otherwise.
No. There's neither basis nor indication nor evidence for any of that.

Maschenny playing Traumerei for a fool right now is strong evidence against it. If you were correct, Maschenny wouldn't have outmanoeuvred him (and his entire Family) so completely.



I'd like to pick more than two. Even a limit of two options is too binary IMO.

Mas is a lot of things to a lot of people.
I was speaking in an objective manner. Which options are objectively true.

Maschenny can't be both a Player and a pawn, servant or helper.
 

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Maschenny misleading Traumerei is strong indication against the notion that she is "a mere pawn for people at the level of the family heads".



No, not really. There is no indication that Maschenny serves anyone but herself. Like really no indication. Maschenny serving any of the Great Warriors is heavy headcanon territory.



LMAO at the notion that Maschenny is an existence comparable to Khel Hellam. Get back to me when Khel Hellam plays an entire Great Family (including their leader) for fools.

It's almost certainly not the case that Maschenny is in the same realm of existence as Khel Hellam. For starters, she has done far more than Khel Hellam. All of the following events were schemed, manipulated or otherwise involved her:
  • The Name Hunt Station
    • Lilial and Shilial were working with her.
  • Jinsung vs Kallavan
    • Setup via her conversation with Jinsung
  • Baam vs Kallavan
    • It only happened because Maschenny interrupted the Jinsung vs Kallavan fight (thus releasing Kallavan to go to the Last Station).
    • It only happened because Baam wanted to get revenge for Jinsung.
  • Baam rallying FUG (Evankhell, Yama, Karaka, etc.)
    • Jinsung outright says this
  • FUG storming the Nest
    • Jinsung says this
    • She says this as well herself
  • The Khun's alliance with the Lo Po Bia Family
    • Yorari mentions a promise between their Families

The following future events would also have been instigated by her:
  • Baam releasing Acrinak
  • Baam vs Traumerei
  • The downfall of the Lo Po Bia Family

Alternatively, call me when someone of Jinsung's calibre says this about Khel Hellam:


Khel Hellam shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Maschenny.



No. There's neither basis nor indication nor evidence for any of that.

Maschenny playing Traumerei for a fool right now is strong evidence against it. If you were correct, Maschenny wouldn't have outmanoeuvred him (and his entire Family) so completely.
Misleading traumerei? Traumerei so far has not evidenced even caring about the war. So, um, what evidence is there that mascheny has done anything whatsoever that has even remotely approached something that could conceivably grab traumerei's attention? So far as the story has told us tower citizens are unimportant trifles for family heads and there is zero evidence that mascheny or princesses in general are any higher up in the pecking order. And just to be clear the pecking order is this:

1.- Phantaminum
2.- Irregulars
3.- All the other worthless, irrelevant, replaceable shits.
No further tiers or categories required. And the caveat that to phantaminum odds are that tier 2 and 3 are indistinguishable from one another.

Also... khel hellam has an ancient and fought evankhel with her ancient and full transformation yama simultaneously and wasn't even at that big a disadvantage. Who the hell else who isn't a family head has a feat like that in the story? Add to that, khel hellam has gotten zahard's attention at least twice. Which is twice more than mascheny has gotten from traumerei so far. Let alone the pretty steep odds that the stuff mascheny not being within zahard's radar who has been manipulating fate for a while now.
 

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Misleading traumerei? Traumerei so far has not evidenced even caring about the war. So, um, what evidence is there that mascheny has done anything whatsoever that has even remotely approached something that could conceivably grab traumerei's attention?
Traumerei wants Baam. He came to the Nest because he was told about Baam's capture. He believes that Maschenny has captured Baam and that she's on the Teleporter Ship.

In reality, Maschenny sent Baam inside the Frozen Waterfall to unseal Acrinak.

Traumerei:
  • Is not getting his hands on Baam.
  • Is losing hold of the Ancient he sealed inside the Frozen Waterfall.


So far as the story has told us tower citizens are unimportant trifles for family heads
The likes of White, Yama, Yasratcha, Evankhell, and Khel Hellam are unimportant trifles.

Maschenny is not in the same group as them.


and there is zero evidence that mascheny or princesses in general are any higher up in the pecking order.
Here is Jinsung admitting that Maschenny is far beyond him in that pecking order:


Here is Jinsung admitting that Maschenny (by herself) is one of the major forces behind the Nest:


Maschenny is big enough that Jinsung groups her with the Zahard Army and 10 Families.


Also... khel hellam has an ancient and fought evankhel with her ancient and full transformation yama simultaneously and wasn't even at that big a disadvantage. Who the hell else who isn't a family head has a feat like that in the story?
Maschenny's hype from Jinsung is >>>.


Which is twice more than mascheny has gotten from traumerei so far.
Because Maschenny has successfully played Traumerei for a fool. Traumerei hasn't paid any attention to Maschenny because he thinks she's playing her role like the obedient little Princess. Little does he know that she's made fools of him and his entire Family.


Let alone the pretty steep odds that the stuff mascheny not being within zahard's radar who has been manipulating fate for a while now.
There's a possibility that Zahard has not directly moved against Maschenny despite her active sabotage because such an action would invite reprisal from Eduan. Maschenny is his favourite child after all.


And just to be clear the pecking order is this:

1.- Phantaminum
2.- Irregulars
3.- All the other worthless, irrelevant, replaceable shits.
No further tiers or categories required. And the caveat that to phantaminum odds are that tier 2 and 3 are indistinguishable from one another.
Man, you're going to hate the end of this arc so much.
 

Jubei_Kibagami

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I was speaking in an objective manner. Which options are objectively true.

Maschenny can't be both a Player and a pawn, servant or helper.
Meh, disagree. But I don't want a long back-and-forth on semantics of all things. Just post a pic of Mas spread-eagle or something in my DMs if you can't post it here.

She could be a *pawn* of, say, Eduan, as any Khun is likely to be to some extent same as any other FH to their DD's and so on.

While likewise being a *player* in, say, this battle because Eduan has allowed her agency here or elsewhere. Same with her and Zahard - a pawn of sorts - while being a princess allows her to 'play' to her own devices. Goals can be complimentary for her master and her own devices, or conflicting so long as her task is completed or she hides the details. It depends on the size of her leash.

Servant and helper is even easier. She could be serving someone like Eduan and helping someone else, like Baam. In fact that's very likely to be the case IMO.

I just don't see how these things are mutually exclusive. Once more - she's different things to different people. What she is to Baam isn't what she is to Eduan isn't what she is to Asensio, etc etc
 

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Traumerei wants Baam. He came to the Nest because he was told about Baam's capture. He believes that Maschenny has captured Baam and that she's on the Teleporter Ship.

In reality, Maschenny sent Baam inside the Frozen Waterfall to unseal Acrinak.

Traumerei:
  • Is not getting his hands on Baam.
  • Is losing hold of the Ancient he sealed inside the Frozen Waterfall.

The likes of White, Yama, Yasratcha, Evankhell, and Khel Hellam are unimportant trifles.

Maschenny is not in the same group as them.

Here is Jinsung admitting that Maschenny is far beyond him in that pecking order:

Here is Jinsung admitting that Maschenny (by herself) is one of the major forces behind the Nest:

Maschenny is big enough that Jinsung groups her with the Zahard Army and 10 Families.

Maschenny's hype from Jinsung is >>>.

Because Maschenny has successfully played Traumerei for a fool. Traumerei hasn't paid any attention to Maschenny because he thinks she's playing her role like the obedient little Princess. Little does he know that she's made fools of him and his entire Family.

There's a possibility that Zahard has not directly moved against Maschenny despite her active sabotage because such an action would invite reprisal from Eduan. Maschenny is his favourite child after all.

Man, you're going to hate the end of this arc so much.
Mascheny has simply not set out to keep bam out of traumerei's reach. She sent bam inside the suspendium but at no point has mascheny evidenced this being a ploy to screw traumerie over. Mascheny's plans simply don't have much to do with him in general. Add to that, there is simply no in story evidence that princesses are not among the trifles for family heads. Mascheny could be gigantic to jinsung and she'd still be a turd meant to be ignored for family heads.
 
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