As others have said, Roger could deal with quakes, darkness, homies, etc. with just a sword. Nothing wrong with Mihawk just having a sword.
I don’t think One Piece has a single strongest character-but there are a few characters who are at the absolute top level and can beat each other on any given day- Roger, Primebeard, Prime Garp, Shiki, Mihawk, Rayleigh, Sengoku, Ryuma, Rocks, Tsuru, etc.
There isn't, but if we're going to keep having these topics, I'd like to (once and a while at least) indulge in them beyond what we've been currently doing. Promote some sort of discussion and not just a simple "Yeah, I think he can" or "No, I don't so", which is what we started with before the baiting and stuff happened.
All of them are lacking feats, lol, but since we're here, we might as well use what we've got. With that in mind, yeah, the how is important in this instance because it's in the spirit of the thread and it'll lead to an actual discussion.
I don't think Mihawk needs to be stronger than Shanks. I think the two are equal and have always been. Mihawk has the title, but the context and implications of the series imply that things between the two have been left unsettled. Mihawk stopped seeking to challenge Shanks because the latter lost his arm. Oda also mentioned that Shanks didn't lose any power with his arm, so things are good on that point. As for Zoro, under the assumption that Mihawk and Shanks are equally skilled in swordsmanship, him surpassing Mihawk would also mean he's more skilled than Shanks by EoS, which still keeps his narrative intact and still making him the WSS. So that's where I land on things with Shanks. Equal and their fight could go either way.
I don't see a problem with that. I've mentioned several times that I think Mihawk is at the top of the world with the Yonkou and the Admirals. I don't have an issue with folks thinking he's comparable at all. It only makes sense.
You've made solid arguments for your case, at least for Shanks, but that's basically all I wanted. Some thought put into the topic rather than the usual stuff.
With Blackbeard, Mihawk's a bad opponent for him due to how his Yami Yami no Mi works. It absorbs damage as well, so he'd be left open for a longer period of time when Mihawk get's his blows in. The issues for Mihawk comes in the form of of the Quake fruit. He's probably the one who has the most "firepower" to pull out in a fight against Mihawk. If Mihawk can slip by through all the vibrations, he'd stand good chance.
Big Mom, I think, has more tools to deal with Mihawk than the others. Along with her monstrous strength, her fruit is probably the most versatile and complex than the other's. Swordsmen are pretty straightfoward for the most part, so while he can harm her and is the better swordsperson, I see her winning more often than not.
With Kaido, his Dragon mode is definitely a no go as he's just a big ass target. He'd stand a much better chance in CQC than Blackbeard though. Similar to Big Mom, I think his physical strength would be an issue and since his mace isn't a sword, he has a bit more leeway in how he can compare to Mihawk with it. His endurance is what I see putting him over in those rounds where he wins.
Okay, sorry that I discarded theorizing about how the fights would develop in my previous post. Usually, when I talk about Mihawk, I can't even get that far because of having to justify "why" he's at that level. I'm all open to theorize about the hows and I'll try to be as unbiased as possible while I'm at it.
Let's see. I'll separate this discussion into five different topics, since it's a pretty lengthy discussion.
Shanks
I'll start with agreeing to setting Mihawk = Shanks strengthwise. As you said, if they're truly shown as equals, Zoro surpassing Mihawk would be enough for his dream. Obviously, then, we can't really discuss much more on Mihawk vs Shanks; similar set of skills and similar strength means there's no real topic to be had on them. They'd just duel like they did on Unlimited Cruise 2.
Teach
The way I see it, Mihawk's expertise as a longrange swordsman (from what he showed at Marineford) gives him the advantage on Blackbeard.
I don't think Blackbeard has showed any defensive techniques at all, and as he explained he takes even more damage/pain than a normal human would because of his fruit. He couldn't even block a Jet Pistol or any of Ace's attacks (though he did tank them somewhat), he doesn't even have a blade to block and he has never showed off being fast or having proper mobility, so I say that he eats any slash that Mihawk throws his way. If Teach attracts Mihawk with his darkness fruit, I think it will only be even worse for him. He may punch Mihawk a good one, but the yami yami wouldn't nullify any of Mihawk's abilities and Mihawk would slash Blackbeard a very good one just as soon as he's grabbed. I don't see Blackbeard tanking slashes from Yoru's direct blade.
Unless Blackbeard has any new tricks, he would want to keep Mihawk at a distance, and he may be able of doing so through the Gura Gura no Mi. We have literally 0 information on what kind of damage Mihawk can tank, although we do have examples from top tier characters like Akainu who actually tanked some direct gura gura punches. From a distance, gura gura is less dangerous than from up close, and if it's about "sleeping through the cracks", I believe that Mihawk's CoO (while never directly stated, it appears Mihawk's one of the best when it comes to this), his speed (he played around with G2 Luffy and followed him around the battle) and longrange skills are more than enough to dodge the tremors while throwing slashes.
I'll justify what I just said with my favorite feat from Marineford, that was completely ruined in the anime. A Gear 2 Luffy tried to trick Mihawk and run away from him with his soru through the sea of marines and pirates fighting. There were three panels of Mihawk's sight zooming through the marines and fixating itself clearly on Luffy mid-soru, and then he threw this:
A perfect spiraling long range attack that goes below the other combatants without touching any of them and then perfectly rising to cut Luffy right on his chest with perfect accuracy. Mihawk's sentence there is the cerry on top: "You're within range". Blackbeard would be at a disadvantage no matter what he tried, so his chances of victory are just less than Mihawk's.
Big Mom
I'll assume that Mihawk can cut Big Mom: perhaps emission haki is all that it takes just like with Kaido, and if the scabbards and Oden can do it, so can Mihawk. However, Big Mom does have a weapon to defend herself, and we have seen that she's a surprisingly good swordswoman, and that's bad news.
Just for the record, my real opinion on this one is that Mihawk needs to be able of winning against her for the sweet WSS title, no matter what additional abilities she has, since her main fighting skills are actually with the sword, but I'll stick to comparing their abilities.
Just going by the skills, Big Mom should have the upper hand. If we assume that she's inferior to Mihawk with the sword but can still hold her ground and block his attacks with it (she was certainly able to block a punch from G4 so she's actually damn fast when fighting, even if anyone can outrun her), then she can always stall the fight while her homies attack Mihawk.
I don't see normal homies doing anything to him, but Prometheus (was that his name?) and Zeus can probably even damage the likes of Kaido, so if Mihawk gets somehow blocked from dodging by Big Mom and he eats some of their attacks, he's losing fast. To make matters worse, Yoru is a big-ass lightning rod so dodging Zeus should realistically be even harder for him.
Despite my personal opinion on this fight and on swordsmen, if they confronted each other as equals of strength, I give this win to her.
Dragon Kaido
From what we have seen of Oden and the Scabbards. Mihawk should massacre him.
Human Kaido
CQC he's many times stronger than Blackbeard. The later may punch very hard, but has no weapon, not an impressive durability and no particular fighting skills.
I think Mihawk should be able to match his herculean strength. Just like Zoro (in his own, different tier, of course) main swordsmen are actually physical powerhouses, so I don't think Kaido would overpower him with only his strength. I can see how a mace vs a sword should give the mace the advantage on normal circumstances, but Yoru, one of the two only permanently black-clad blades that we know of, and one of supreme grade, should be able to endure Kaido's mace with unbreakable durability. It wouldn't be any different than having Kaido and Mihawk clashing two maces, with the difference of Mihawk also having the skills to deflect or parry attacks through his renowned finesse, while Kaido still looks like only a brute.
I'm actually giving Kaido's haki the benefit of the doubt here. Normally, I'd argue that Mihawk, through his sword skills and emission haki, should be able to cleave Kaido's mace right in half just like Zoro did in recent chapters to one of the Numbers. We know that it takes emission haki to hurt Kaido, but we have no information of Kaido being able to put out the same kind of haki. Him taking damage from it would actually suggest that he can't, but since we lack information I'll say that he can strengthen his mace enough to endure taking Mihawk's slashes.
Taking it all into account, I see Kaido slowly accumulating small damage, and it indeed coming, like you suggested, to a battle of endurance. Mihawk losing concentration or being too slow just once and eating a direct hit from the mace probably means an instantwin for Kaido, while the fight lasting long enough would only increase Kaido's disadvantage, but I have no idea of how much damage can Kaido actually endure.
I personally believe that Mihawk would win, because of how the Oden fight went (even if that was mainly Kaido in dragon form), but feat-wise, and considering Kaido can win at any time if he manages to properly hit Mihawk head-on, I will call this a tie that could go either way.
Prime Whitebeard
I don't know what to argue about this one. I have no idea how strong he actually was, so I'll drop his topic.
Old Whitebeard
Going by feats and skills, I give this win to Mihawk.
Old Whitebeard might have been a real beast in his Prime, but his reflexes and speed as an old man surprised even Marco because of how dull they have become. Not dodging Squardo's stab, even if it was a betrayal, means he's likely to also get stabbed by a much faster and stronger stab from that same distance.
Similar to Blackbeard, if the fight is from a distance, I can see Mihawk dodging the tremors and slashing from afar, yet in this case Whitebeard has a supreme grade blade that he can use to stop them. Mihawk would be at a disadvantage and would only tire himself, so it would be in his best interests to approach Whitebeard.
From up close, the gura gura no mi becomes "only" a strengthening DF to boost slashing and punching power, with no other real advantage. With the two of them focused on the fight and no plot-induced distractions, Mihawk should be able to keep up with Whitebeard's strength (just like Shanks was) and through his skills, CoO and agility he should be able to avoid any direct hits from the tremor hits, while Whitebeard never showed to be able of rapidly swinging his bisento against an opponent that can stand his ground against him, and his old age should make his reflexes inferior to Mihawk's.
Whitebeard vs Akainu was no normal 1vs1 because of Whitebeard's mental state and rage that made him want to hit Akainu even at the cost of losing half his face. He wouldn't have that suicidal mentality in a proper duel with no plot alterations, so I believe that he'd just slowly lose ground and end up defeated.
Honestly I think with the world building and stuff, Mihawk hype isn't as big as it was before. It's the case for me at least, I no longer think he is as strong as I expected him to be when I was younger.
I'd like you guys to confirm this for me because I am probably not as passionate about One Piece as most of you here:
Shanks hasn't lost strength despite his arm loss.
When Shanks and Mihawk were dueling, Shanks wasn't a Yonkou.
Mihawk stopped fighting Shanks because he lost his arm.
Before I used to think he was at Shanks's level but now I don't, especially with the introduction of the other Yonkous and stuff.
If 1 is true then 3 doesn't make sense, but back when I was younger, it did because the world wasn't as big, you'd normally think that Shanks got weaker after that arm loss, wouldn't you? Which would put Mihawk above him.
A lot of them are lacking feats but Mihawk has a bit more. In Marineford he was there and his portrayal didn't make me think he was much stronger, or stronger than Whitebeard's top 3 men: Marco, Jozu and Vista. Both even agreed to postpone their fight(Vista) because it would take a lot of time IIRC.
I think Mihawk is a bit stronger than Oden at his peak. Among the ones listed here I can only see him beating Blackbeard. Even in his old age and with his illness, Whitebeard was definitely the strongest at Marineford. I think he is stronger than the Old Rayleigh too. But to put him at the level of the Yonkou is too much IMO. As for the Yonkou themselves I think Kaidou is currently the strongest one.
I'd really like Oda to explain clearly what's the deal with black blades and stuff. Does it make you a much better swordsman? Is it all about COA skill? Mihawk is implied to be a COO specialist and yet he has a black blade.
Honestly I think with the world building and stuff, Mihawk hype isn't as big as it was before. It's the case for me at least, I no longer think he is as strong as I expected him to be when I was younger.
I'd like you guys to confirm this for me because I am probably not as passionate about One Piece as most of you here:
Shanks hasn't lost strength despite his arm loss.
When Shanks and Mihawk were dueling, Shanks wasn't a Yonkou.
Mihawk stopped fighting Shanks because he lost his arm.
Before I used to think he was at Shanks's level but now I don't, especially with the introduction of the other Yonkous and stuff.
If 1 is true then 3 doesn't make sense, but back when I was younger, it did because the world wasn't as big, you'd normally think that Shanks got weaker after that arm loss, wouldn't you? Which would put Mihawk above him.
A lot of them are lacking feats but Mihawk has a bit more. In Marineford he was there and his portrayal didn't make me think he was much stronger, or stronger than Whitebeard's top 3 men: Marco, Jozu and Vista. Both even agreed to postpone their fight(Vista) because it would take a lot of time IIRC.
I think Mihawk is a bit stronger than Oden at his peak. Among the ones listed here I can only see him beating Blackbeard. Even in his old age and with his illness, Whitebeard was definitely the strongest at Marineford. I think he is stronger than the Old Rayleigh too. But to put him at the level of the Yonkou is too much IMO. As for the Yonkou themselves I think Kaidou is currently the strongest one.
I'd really like Oda to explain clearly what's the deal with black blades and stuff. Does it make you a much better swordsman? Is it all about COA skill? Mihawk is implied to be a COO specialist and yet he has a black blade.
I can't make a longer reply right now but I want to point out that 3 is not necessarily true.
Many people think that, but Mihawk's comment was just a friendly jab at Shanks as a way to justify that he had no interest in fighting him after Shanks had asked him if that's what he was looking for.
We know nothing about when their last duels really took place. It's all speculation.
Honestly I think with the world building and stuff, Mihawk hype isn't as big as it was before. It's the case for me at least, I no longer think he is as strong as I expected him to be when I was younger.
I'd like you guys to confirm this for me because I am probably not as passionate about One Piece as most of you here:
Shanks hasn't lost strength despite his arm loss.
When Shanks and Mihawk were dueling, Shanks wasn't a Yonkou.
Mihawk stopped fighting Shanks because he lost his arm.
Before I used to think he was at Shanks's level but now I don't, especially with the introduction of the other Yonkous and stuff.
If 1 is true then 3 doesn't make sense, but back when I was younger, it did because the world wasn't as big, you'd normally think that Shanks got weaker after that arm loss, wouldn't you? Which would put Mihawk above him.
A lot of them are lacking feats but Mihawk has a bit more. In Marineford he was there and his portrayal didn't make me think he was much stronger, or stronger than Whitebeard's top 3 men: Marco, Jozu and Vista. Both even agreed to postpone their fight(Vista) because it would take a lot of time IIRC.
I think Mihawk is a bit stronger than Oden at his peak. Among the ones listed here I can only see him beating Blackbeard. Even in his old age and with his illness, Whitebeard was definitely the strongest at Marineford. I think he is stronger than the Old Rayleigh too. But to put him at the level of the Yonkou is too much IMO. As for the Yonkou themselves I think Kaidou is currently the strongest one.
I'd really like Oda to explain clearly what's the deal with black blades and stuff. Does it make you a much better swordsman? Is it all about COA skill? Mihawk is implied to be a COO specialist and yet he has a black blade.
I don’t think the worldbuilding should matter. Mihawk is very likely one of the first characters Oda ever designed. You could argue that he predates One Piece itself in the form of Cyrano, arguably a proto-Mihawk.
He was clearly always intended to be one of the main characters in the series. All this worldbuilding is just extra. Most of the characters who have been part of this worldbuilding are clearly less important characters than Mihawk. I believe Katakuri was only designed at some point in the 2010s. Big Mom and Kaido’s designs were clearly changed recently.
If anything the worldbuilding is good for Mihawk. A feat by any swordsman is hype for Mihawk. If Tge scabbards slash up Kaido, that is hype for Mihawk. If anything, recent events are a bad thing for the Yonko. The recent chapters haven’t exactly been flattering for them.
Mihawk is either going to be Zoro’s final enemy or taken out by Shilliew with some invisibility-based trickery (so not a fair fight). He definitely holds a special place in the story, more so than 90% of the so-called worldbuilding characters in the story.
Mihawk is either going to be Zoro’s final enemy or taken out by Shilliew with some invisibility-based trickery (so not a fair fight). He definitely holds a special place in the story, more so than 90% of the so-called worldbuilding characters in the story.
I don't think trickery would make a difference here, and that is also why on my personal opinion I think Mihawk would manage to defeat even Big Mom.
Back at the beginning of the series we saw that Zoro considered Cabaji a swordsman despite him being some weird acrobat full of weird tricks that had nothing to do with the sword, and Zoro was very clear about "not having excuses" for winning or losing against a swordsman. Nor his tricks, nor his unicycle nor the open wound from a previous fight on Zoro's abdomen were to be accepted as an excuse.
Taking that into account, in my opinion, any such defeat for Mihawk would pretty much contradict to what Oda established back then to be the spirit of a strong swordsman; Mihawk being the person supposed to represent their pinnacle.
As others have said, Roger could deal with quakes, darkness, homies, etc. with just a sword. Nothing wrong with Mihawk just having a sword.
I don’t think One Piece has a single strongest character-but there are a few characters who are at the absolute top level and can beat each other on any given day- Roger, Primebeard, Prime Garp, Shiki, Mihawk, Rayleigh, Sengoku, Ryuma, Rocks, Tsuru, etc.
Roger is another being level compare to what Mihawk is and the portrayals difference is non-existent between them. Roger's power isn't Mihawk's power especially from what we seen Marineford which is more clear of power level and how people saw him, but he wasn't seen as much of bigger threats in the war compare to many stronger top tiers and deeper ones.
Roger is another being level compare to what Mihawk is and the portrayals difference is non-existent between them. Roger's power isn't Mihawk's power especially from what we seen Marineford which is more clear of power level and how people saw him, but he wasn't seen as much of bigger threats in the war compare to many stronger top tiers and deeper ones.
Deep top tiers like Roger, Dragon, Whitebeard, Shiki, Garp, etc.. Those in that range are PK lvl, Yonko lvl, and Admiral lvl respectively. They aren't on same level of course, but obviously they are deeper top tiers in the series
If 1 is true then 3 doesn't make sense, but back when I was younger, it did because the world wasn't as big, you'd normally think that Shanks got weaker after that arm loss, wouldn't you? Which would put Mihawk above him.
I've mentioned this before, but I personally think, due to Mihawk being about honor and code if conduct, he just doesn't find it honorable to fight a handicapped opponent, regardless of their strength. I'm sure he'd love to still fight him, but he's basically off limits due to his lack of an arm.
Definitely agree on Blackbeard. Not much I can add. I personally have high hopes for the character, but he hasn't shown much of anything that gives him and edge over Mihawk. He's definitely dangerous, but it remains unseen how dangerous he actually is in combat.
Big Mom, in particular, not only has her homies, but had shown the abiilty to absorb stamina (maybe willpower), when her and Luffy clashed when he was in Gear 4, so that's also a potential deterrent for him. When I comment around discussions about Swordsman not dealing well with tricky or complex opponents, it's opponents like her I'm referring too. Those that have a means to fight indirectly with their fruits. Straight foward abilities, like the Gura Gura no Mi, I can potentially buy, but it's stuff like that that gives me pause.
As for Kaido, in terms of Mihawk potentially cutting through Kaido's club. My argument for that is mainly that all of the high tiers we've seen that use weapons, generally have the highest quality weapons around. He might not have a named sword, but I'm assuming his club does have a name and is of a higher quality than that mace the number used. But it is a safe bet to say that, given his strength and repuation, his haki is comparable enough to Mihawk's that he would be able to use hardening to prevent it from being bisected if it isn't of high quality.
As for the fight itself, I'd say an extended fight wouldn't go well for either of them. My general thought on Kaido being injured is it just shows that he's not completely invulnerable. However, him being susceptible to slashes doesn't mean they are a kryptonite like weakness that guarantees a win. It just means he can't go around tanking like usual and he's as open to attacks as his opponent is. Somewhat like Luffy being fine with taking punches and bullets early in the series before haki. He could do it because he could afford to, but now, he has to take things seriously because there are those whose punches can hurt him. The way I see it, for every slice Mihawk gets in, that's a potential for him to come close to getting slammed by the mace, which wouldn't be good at all. I'd say it'd be better for Mihawk to try and finish him as soon as he can because the longer he goes at him, the higher the possibility of Kaido getting a blow in.
Deep top tiers like Roger, Dragon, Whitebeard, Shiki, Garp, etc.. Those in that range are PK lvl, Yonko lvl, and Admiral lvl respectively. They aren't on same level of course, but obviously they are deeper top tiers in the series
It's mostly anime onlys if were being honest since in the anime WB destroyed Akainu but in the manga Akainu did more damage. They look at Kaido and just wank him and everyone associated. Go to any One Piece Instagram account and look at the comments.
I've seen people say 1 Yonko = 2 Admirals.
I've seen people say 1 Yonko = 3 Admirals.
I've seen people say it would take all the admirals to fight one Yonko.
People make it seem like the Admirals are YC1 level lol.
It's mostly anime onlys if were being honest since in the anime WB destroyed Akainu but in the manga Akainu did more damage. They look at Kaido and just wank him and everyone associated. Go to any One Piece Instagram account and look at the comments.
I've seen people say 1 Yonko = 2 Admirals.
I've seen people say 1 Yonko = 3 Admirals.
I've seen people say it would take all the admirals to fight one Yonko.
People make it seem like the Admirals are YC1 level lol.
Tbf, I'd say Yonko = An Admiral and then some. Not strictly equal, but I wouldn't say any of the OG admirals will beat the OG Yonko. However, it's close enough for them to be roughly equal. Still though, if we agree Roger, Prime WB > OG Yonko, then it's only fair to say Yonko > Admiral.
Anyway, on topic, tbh, I'd only conclusively say Mihawk beats BB and perhaps Old WB. Prime WB is a definite defeat for Mihawk, the rest could go either way
It's mostly anime onlys if were being honest since in the anime WB destroyed Akainu but in the manga Akainu did more damage. They look at Kaido and just wank him and everyone associated. Go to any One Piece Instagram account and look at the comments.
I've seen people say 1 Yonko = 2 Admirals.
I've seen people say 1 Yonko = 3 Admirals.
I've seen people say it would take all the admirals to fight one Yonko.
People make it seem like the Admirals are YC1 level lol.
i know right? People underestimate admirals so much. Akainu tanked two direct and consecutive quake power from whitebeard and could still continue fighting. Meanwhile YC1 luffy got one shot by kaido. People who thought admirals are YC1 level are disappointing.
Mihawk is YC+ lvl tier at best. He done nothing to be in league of Yonkos and Admirals in feat-wise and portrayal wise. Marineford put portrayal of everyone on where they stand a lot for most of them and doesn't help that even Crocodile was enough to hold off Mihawk to not go after Luffy from someone 'supposedly Yonko lvl' when true Yonko can easily bulldoze to Crocodile.
Mihawk is YC+ lvl tier at best. He done nothing to be in league of Yonkos and Admirals in feat-wise and portrayal wise. Marineford put portrayal of everyone on where they stand a lot for most of them and doesn't help that even Crocodile was enough to hold off Mihawk to not go after Luffy from someone 'supposedly Yonko lvl' when true Yonko can easily bulldoze to Crocodile.
Akainu was fine and it had no effect, but Mihawk was truly stop by Crocodile and when we went back to their side later, Mihawk only bested Daz Bones, but Crocodile still standing. Plus we can see Akainu was ignoring all of them without fighting since he wanted Luffy the most.
Cause I believe on feats and hype on them given what they have shown and who they face along with beaten. Who has Mihawk overcome on-screen to say he is on same level as them? No one notable unless Daz Bones was secret Yonko lvl all this time xD. Again Marineford didn't do anything to push Mihawk as same league as them. I just going by what been shown on his performance compare to theirs. Until future update happens on him, it doesn't push narrative to say he could face off on same standing as a Yonko and Admiral.
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