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Now, I have seen a common misconception on this board about how Bleach fights would play out. People think just because Fighter A beat Fighter B and Fighter B beat Fighter C, then Fighter A would naturally beat Fighter C.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. From keeping up with Naruto, I realized that there is a deep analysis required for fights in mangas. Now, from keeping up with Bleach, I am confident that Bleach does not suffer from the infamous 'DBZ Rule' where power level = everything.
For some of the Naruto followers on this board, we know of the Shikamaru VS Hidan. Hidan was an S-Class criminal and Shikamaru was a Chuunin. The ranking has a rather big gap. Anyway, when I analyzed this fight in an earlier post on the Naruto boards, I broke apart fighting into some key categories: Power (chakra, reitsu, etc.), Speed, Techniques, Resourcefulness and Intelligence.
Power: As noted, this can be chakra (Naruto), reitsu (spiritual power; Bleach), or whatever the manga you're reading calls it. Fortunately, unlike DBZ, Bleach and Naruto don't have power determining everything. Naruto is the best example because the main protagonist, Naruto, was given the most chakra anyone can ever have at the start of the manga (the Kyuubi and high amount of natural chakra), but he was far from capable of beating anyone at the start of the manga. Why? Well, a) he couldn't control all that power and b) power means nothing if you can't use it to get the advantage in a fight.
Speed: This is a big part of determining a winner in a fight. You can have all the power in the world, but if you cannot hit your opponent, then you cannot win. Furthermore, you can have like no power, but if you are very fast, you can kill a strong opponent by just using a knife to quickly cut the opponent's throat. I value speed over power in most fights.
Techniques: Techniques also play a big part. Technique, to a certain extent, can determine the winner more than power. If a certain technique can just shut down a fighter (Hidan's technique and Tousen's bankai), then it can override other the techniques of other fighters by decreasing the chance that the other fighter's technique will be effective or just stopping the other fighter's ability to perform the technique altogether.
Resourcefulness: This factor can be important only at certain times. Resourcefulness basically applies to using your surroundings to your advantage. Arleri used darkness to his advantage so he could disguise himself and put Rukia into a position that would be advantageous to him. Deidara exploited Gaara's love for his village to his advantage. Some people may consider these to be cheap tactics (and to an extent they are), but they are useless in getting the job done and that job is winning the fight.
Intelligence: This is a huge factor. This is one of the big reasons that Shikamaru beat Hidan. In fighting, you really don't have many chances to make mistakes, so a fighter has to be able to identify an opponent's weakness, be able to exploit and capitalize on it. If a fighter can find a weakness in an opponent's fighting style of techniques and be able to exploit it, their chances of winning increases.
Now, how do these 5 factors apply to to Bleach and Naruto? Well, these fighter mangas are similar in the way the fighters engage in battle.
Example of these 5 factors in action: Hidan vs Shikamaru -
Technique: Hidan's "Voodoo" Technique VS Shikamaru's Shadow Binding
-Now, if Hidan ever obtained Shikamaru's blood to perform his technique, Shikamaru would be dead. Furthermore, Hidan's immortality makes it so that Shikamaru would have to find a way to incapacitate Hidan, since he cannot kill him. However, Shikamaru's technique makes it so he can control Hidan's movements if he can strategically use it.
Intelligence: Shikamaru survived his first encounter with Hidan, fortunately, so Shikamaru took what he learned from Hidan, identified Hidan's weakness, and exploited it. Shikamaru also has a high IQ and he was able to analyze Hidan's fighting style even during battle.
Speed: Both fighters are pretty fast. They aren't top notch in this category, both they are probably on par with each other. Since, Shikamaru knew Hidan's fighting style inside and out, he was able to predict Hidan's movements and dodged his attacks accordingly. Shika was able to set up Hidan and also set him up for a trap.
Resourcefulness: Hidan has no resourcefulness. Shikamaru on the other hand, used the secret of his clan's forest to trap Hidan in a whole, where he collapsed the hole on top of Hidan (who was in pieces), successfully incapacitating Hidan.
Power: Power wasn't a big factor in this fight. Shikamaru did need a lot of chakra to hold his shadow bind technique for a long time, but it wasn't as big of a factor as most may think. Shikamaru defeated Hidan using mostly explosive notes (a weapon) and Hidan defeated Asuma technically using a spear to the chest. Power doesn't have to play a big factor.
Anywayz, that was just an example fight. Bleach is the same way. Some people just think since Ichigo supposedly beat Kenpachi (really a draw), and Kenpachi beat Tousen, that Ichigo could easily beat Tousen. But, you can't analyze things so easy. The circumstances in the two fights were VERY different. Kenpachi had to use his intelligence to identify the weaknesses in Tousen's bankai, then exploit it. Is Ichigo smart enough to do that same? Could Ichigo exploit Tousen's bankai FAST enough? Kenpachi also endured Tousen's shikai no problem. Can Ichigo endure that as well? We don't know yet, so it's pretty ignorant to assume Ichigo would defeat Tousen.
If you fully analyze both fighters (Tousen and Ichigo) using the 5 factors I listed above, you will be closer to identifying the winner than just randomly doing the "A >B, B > C, so A > C" method. Unfortunately, we don't know all of Tousen's abilities or if he has learned any new abilities, so we have to hold off on that analysis.
This post is just something that will help make your discussions more credible.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. From keeping up with Naruto, I realized that there is a deep analysis required for fights in mangas. Now, from keeping up with Bleach, I am confident that Bleach does not suffer from the infamous 'DBZ Rule' where power level = everything.
For some of the Naruto followers on this board, we know of the Shikamaru VS Hidan. Hidan was an S-Class criminal and Shikamaru was a Chuunin. The ranking has a rather big gap. Anyway, when I analyzed this fight in an earlier post on the Naruto boards, I broke apart fighting into some key categories: Power (chakra, reitsu, etc.), Speed, Techniques, Resourcefulness and Intelligence.
Power: As noted, this can be chakra (Naruto), reitsu (spiritual power; Bleach), or whatever the manga you're reading calls it. Fortunately, unlike DBZ, Bleach and Naruto don't have power determining everything. Naruto is the best example because the main protagonist, Naruto, was given the most chakra anyone can ever have at the start of the manga (the Kyuubi and high amount of natural chakra), but he was far from capable of beating anyone at the start of the manga. Why? Well, a) he couldn't control all that power and b) power means nothing if you can't use it to get the advantage in a fight.
Speed: This is a big part of determining a winner in a fight. You can have all the power in the world, but if you cannot hit your opponent, then you cannot win. Furthermore, you can have like no power, but if you are very fast, you can kill a strong opponent by just using a knife to quickly cut the opponent's throat. I value speed over power in most fights.
Techniques: Techniques also play a big part. Technique, to a certain extent, can determine the winner more than power. If a certain technique can just shut down a fighter (Hidan's technique and Tousen's bankai), then it can override other the techniques of other fighters by decreasing the chance that the other fighter's technique will be effective or just stopping the other fighter's ability to perform the technique altogether.
Resourcefulness: This factor can be important only at certain times. Resourcefulness basically applies to using your surroundings to your advantage. Arleri used darkness to his advantage so he could disguise himself and put Rukia into a position that would be advantageous to him. Deidara exploited Gaara's love for his village to his advantage. Some people may consider these to be cheap tactics (and to an extent they are), but they are useless in getting the job done and that job is winning the fight.
Intelligence: This is a huge factor. This is one of the big reasons that Shikamaru beat Hidan. In fighting, you really don't have many chances to make mistakes, so a fighter has to be able to identify an opponent's weakness, be able to exploit and capitalize on it. If a fighter can find a weakness in an opponent's fighting style of techniques and be able to exploit it, their chances of winning increases.
Now, how do these 5 factors apply to to Bleach and Naruto? Well, these fighter mangas are similar in the way the fighters engage in battle.
Example of these 5 factors in action: Hidan vs Shikamaru -
Technique: Hidan's "Voodoo" Technique VS Shikamaru's Shadow Binding
-Now, if Hidan ever obtained Shikamaru's blood to perform his technique, Shikamaru would be dead. Furthermore, Hidan's immortality makes it so that Shikamaru would have to find a way to incapacitate Hidan, since he cannot kill him. However, Shikamaru's technique makes it so he can control Hidan's movements if he can strategically use it.
Intelligence: Shikamaru survived his first encounter with Hidan, fortunately, so Shikamaru took what he learned from Hidan, identified Hidan's weakness, and exploited it. Shikamaru also has a high IQ and he was able to analyze Hidan's fighting style even during battle.
Speed: Both fighters are pretty fast. They aren't top notch in this category, both they are probably on par with each other. Since, Shikamaru knew Hidan's fighting style inside and out, he was able to predict Hidan's movements and dodged his attacks accordingly. Shika was able to set up Hidan and also set him up for a trap.
Resourcefulness: Hidan has no resourcefulness. Shikamaru on the other hand, used the secret of his clan's forest to trap Hidan in a whole, where he collapsed the hole on top of Hidan (who was in pieces), successfully incapacitating Hidan.
Power: Power wasn't a big factor in this fight. Shikamaru did need a lot of chakra to hold his shadow bind technique for a long time, but it wasn't as big of a factor as most may think. Shikamaru defeated Hidan using mostly explosive notes (a weapon) and Hidan defeated Asuma technically using a spear to the chest. Power doesn't have to play a big factor.
Anywayz, that was just an example fight. Bleach is the same way. Some people just think since Ichigo supposedly beat Kenpachi (really a draw), and Kenpachi beat Tousen, that Ichigo could easily beat Tousen. But, you can't analyze things so easy. The circumstances in the two fights were VERY different. Kenpachi had to use his intelligence to identify the weaknesses in Tousen's bankai, then exploit it. Is Ichigo smart enough to do that same? Could Ichigo exploit Tousen's bankai FAST enough? Kenpachi also endured Tousen's shikai no problem. Can Ichigo endure that as well? We don't know yet, so it's pretty ignorant to assume Ichigo would defeat Tousen.
If you fully analyze both fighters (Tousen and Ichigo) using the 5 factors I listed above, you will be closer to identifying the winner than just randomly doing the "A >B, B > C, so A > C" method. Unfortunately, we don't know all of Tousen's abilities or if he has learned any new abilities, so we have to hold off on that analysis.
This post is just something that will help make your discussions more credible.
