Discussion Mokushiroku no Yonkishi by Suzuki Nakaba

Do you think Sin is really 3000 years old?

  • Yes.

  • No.


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Demonspeed

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Hmm, so the GC were the source of those shamanic elemental Spirits, lol...Don't mind me, just got a memory refresher on why a certain character from Shaman King still earns some hate...same reason as what Ark can do to souls...

Surprised that most people think it will be someone else from the previous work, did you guys discuss Nanashi? Only got to skim through the recent post pages so I'm not entirely sure if he was a more obscure option.
Nanashi should be Arthur's closest supporter alongside Merlin.
 

Undina

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Nanashi should be Arthur's closest supporter alongside Merlin.
If something's wrong in Camelot( well, something most definitely is wrong there) and Arthur and Merlin are not really in control of this situation, Nanashi would have a good reason to split from them for a while and help those who can fix the situation or, if Nanashi finds reasons to disagree with Arthur's current path, he would split indefinitely and, again, help the opposition if they deserve it and provide the challenges he used to chase after. Plus, Nanashi would automatically help innocents caught in the crossfire of far more powerful people fighting.
I'd like to see a new KoA as much as the next reader, or how far have some of the older characters have gotten in the meantime, but maybe it is someone who would be connected to both sides and able to shed a bit more light over what's going on in Camelot and why these knights are tormenting Britannia.

By the way, the demonic looking bird thing is the one named Darak?
 

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Today I present to you fine fellows a TED talk on the topic of "The final member of the Four Knights of the Apocalypse". It's a relatively long read so proceed with caution.

I was thinking about the identity of the 4th Knight of the Apocalypse recently. It's of course impossible to know exactly what Nakaba is planning, but there seem to be two distinct patterns with the other 3 Knights and it's likely that the final Knight will follow at least one of them. The first one, which I think has received more attention, is that Percival, Tristan and Lancelot are some of the most famous Knights of the Round Table in the Arthurian Legends. This fame extends to modern times as well, as can be seen from their Wikipedia pages listing all the various modern depictions of these characters. Looking at this pattern there are only a couple of other characters with similar levels of fame: Galahad, Gawain and arguably Mordred.

Out of these three, Gawain is the most likely option. Gawain is known for having the same power as Escanor, and Nakaba already teased the appearance of the next host of Sunshine in the sketches of the sequel back when it was first announced. We can be pretty much certain that he will have a major role in this series. There's also the fact that Nakaba seems to really like Gawain in particular, because he named the main character of his golf series after Gawain. However, you could also use this fact to argue that Gawain is not going to be a main character in this series, because Nakaba has already featured him prominently in a previous work. I don't think that's necessarily very meaningful though, because that particular series also featured a Lancelot in it and we know that didn't stop Lancelot from becoming a main character in this series.

Of the remaining two candidates, Mordred is probably the more likely option, but the problem with him is that he is one of the main antagonists in the legends. He might fit the pattern of being well known, but rather than being known for his heroic acts he's known for the opposite, so if anything he actually doesn't fit in with the other 3 Knights at all. There's also the problem of his age since he is Arthur's son and Arthur is so young that he may not have had kids until recently if at all. The final candidate, Galahad, would typically be the most obvious main character possible, but there are two obstacles for him here. The big one is that his role in the Legends in a way replaced Percival's role as the hero of the Holy Grail and that's obviously a huge issue since Percival is the most important main character in the sequel so we can't have another character overshadowing him. Another problem is that Nakaba has so far been quite faithful to the canonical parentage of the Knights and Galahad just so happens to be Lancelot's son. It's possible that very detail could have been the reason why Nakaba chose to use Percival rather than the more famous Galahad as the main character of the sequel, since they play a similar role but one comes with timeline issues while the other one does not.

The second pattern which seems to be present among the 4 Knights is that they are composed of a very diverse set of members, just like the Sins. Percival is a human at least according to Nakaba, Tristan is a nephilim or a half-demon half-goddess(technically half-demon, quarter-goddess and quarter-human) and Lancelot is a half-fairy half-human. Every major clan except for the giants have representation in the main team and it would really rub me the wrong if the giants were completely sidelined here especially after Nakaba already neglected them heavily in NNT. A more obscure detail is that each member seems to be connected to humanity in some way. Percival and Lancelot are obvious and Tristan is technically partly human as well, but more importantly humans are basically just a balanced mixture of light and darkness, which is what Tristan is all about. On paper he's a nephilim, but he shares the same notable attribute as humans. I think this detail is very relevant because the sequel has a heavy focus on Chaos and humans of course have a stronger affinity to Chaos than the other clans.

Looking at these details you could reason that the final Knight should be descended from both humans and giants. It just so happens that there is a character in the Arthurian legends called Galehaut who is a half-giant half-human and also of the Knights of the Round Table as well as a close friend of Lancelot. Interestingly, one of the databooks mentioned that what Matrona wants the most is to have kids with Zalpa, which seems like a probable setup to bring Galehaut into the story, be it as one of the 4 Knights or just as a side character. I mean what's even the point of the Zalpa romance otherwise? Speaking of Zalpa, one of the databooks revealed that he respects the dragon god, which is an entity that was never explained in any way in NNT. This recent reveal about the dragon handle part of the COED symbolizing the Chaos Dragon could be related to this previously mentioned dragon god. If Zalpa's kid inherits their father's religion or tribal customs then the dragon handle would make for a very fitting weapon for them. Meliodas at one point used the handle to manifest some sort of a ghostly dragon to intimidate Oslo, so it seems to have its own magic powers that were never really explored. A half-giant connected to the Chaos Dragon sounds pretty cool and I think someone like that could conceivably keep up with the other 4 Knights in terms of strength.

Leaving the race, background and powers aside, the major problem with Galehaut is that he is nowhere near as famous as the other 3 Knights. In fact he's so poorly known that people often think Galehaut is just a different spelling of the name Galahad. Of the two patterns present in the composition of the 4 Knights, he fits the racial makeup one perfectly but totally breaks the one involving their fame. Gawain is basically the opposite of that in that he's very famous, but just a human like Percival. Of course it's not like Tristan in the legends is a nephilim, so Nakaba could easily take some liberties with Gawain's race. He would probably have to ignore the fact that Gawain is usually Arthur's nephew, which doesn't really sound all that important to be fair. If Gawain was a half-giant half-human then perhaps that extra toughness might help him withstand the strain of Sunshine and thus avoid the same fate as Escanor.

Something worth addressing is that many people want King and Diane's kid to be the final member of the 4 Knights, but I think that's unlikely for a few reasons. The first one is that they are clearly less important than the children of the other Sins. The second to last chapter was basically dedicated to namedropping Tristan and Lancelot, and then Tristan got to be the star of the final chapter while Lancelot got his own one-shot. Meanwhile King and Diane's kid has not been shown at all or even named. It's pretty clear that there's some favoritism going on here. The second reason is that even though King and Diane's child is a half-giant, they are also a half-fairy and not in any way related to humans. That means their connection to Chaos isn't as strong and it would also mean that half of the 4 Knights would be fairies, which would give a disproportionate amount of importance to the fairy clan who are clearly not as relevant as humans. Lastly, rather than joining a human kingdom like the 4 Knights will probably end up doing, I think the child that represents the unification of the fairy clan and the giant clan would be better utilized as the central figure in some sort of a conflict involving the two clans.

In conclusion, Gawain is the most likely candidate to be the final member of the 4 Knights, but if Nakaba goes through with that then I really hope he makes Gawain into a half-giant because the giant clan deserves to have one representative among the main characters. If Nakaba decides to be faithful to the legends then Gawain might just be one of Arthur's closest allies in which case the final Knight would probably be Galehaut against all expectations. Mordred will most likely be a villain just like in almost every story about King Arthur. Galahad probably won't appear at all, although some sort of a time travel arc where he comes back from or where Percival travels to an apocalyptic Chaos future would be pretty cool. King and Diane's kid seems like a good way to explore the future of those two clans so I don't think they will join the main squad. Likewise Zeldris and Gelda's kid will do something similar with the demon and vampire clans, and perhaps Mael has a kid who will do the same thing with the goddess clan. Maybe Nakaba will even remember that the beastmen exist and throw them a bone, which actually sounds quite racist now that I think about it.
 

Tristan

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Tristan is a nephilim or a half-demon half-goddess(technically half-demon, quarter-goddess and quarter-human)
I have strong doubts regarding this point. PoD & Ark are opposite forces which cancel one another:


In principle, to say that Tristan is "half" demon & "quarter" goddess contradicts with his existence as a Nephilim, because Darkness will be far stronger than Light within him and thus cancelling it once and for all. The only possible state of affairs where Darkness & Light can co-exist within him is when they are in a perfect equality and balance. The "human" part of him is "neutral", so it will have no real effect once the balance between PoD & Ark is broken. Also the fact that the prophecy mentioned him having both Evilness & Holiness in his eyes makes it pretty clear that the Darkness & Light within him are equal.
 

OtakuFreak

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I have strong doubts regarding this point. PoD & Ark are opposite forces which cancel one another:


In principle, to say that Tristan is "half" demon & "quarter" goddess contradicts with his existence as a Nephilim, because Darkness will be far stronger than Light within him and thus cancelling it once and for all. The only possible state of affairs where Darkness & Light can co-exist within him is when they are in a perfect equality and balance. The "human" part of him is "neutral", so it will have no real effect once the balance between PoD & Ark is broken. Also the fact that the prophecy mentioned him having both Evilness & Holiness in his eyes makes it pretty clear that the Darkness & Light within him are equal.
If light and darkness are opposite forces which cancel one another and consequently cannot exist in a state of harmony in somebody

Then please explain how Chaos, an entity composed of both light and darkness even exists, because Arthur is perfectly fine despite being human and having both light and darkness inside him lmao
 

Tristan

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If light and darkness are opposite forces which cancel one another and consequently cannot exist in a state of harmony in somebody

Then please explain how Chaos, an entity composed of both light and darkness even exists, because Arthur is perfectly fine despite being human and having both light and darkness inside him lmao
You misunderstood my post (sorry if I wasn't clear enough :amuse).
I never said that Darkness & Light cannot co-exist in an entity or somebody. What I said is that that co-existence has a condition, which is the balance & equality between those two opposite forces, because if said forces aren't equal within someone (Tristan / Chaos) the stronger force will eventually eradicate the other.
 
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Rizaadxn

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Technically speaking, he is quarter Human, which means he is more Demon than he is Human or Goddess.

That, however, will probably be overlooked by Nakaba. Since we already know that Evilness and Holiness are half and half, represented by his eyes.
 

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Today I present to you fine fellows a TED talk on the topic of "The final member of the Four Knights of the Apocalypse". It's a relatively long read so proceed with caution.

Something worth addressing is that many people want King and Diane's kid to be the final member of the 4 Knights, but I think that's unlikely for a few reasons. The first one is that they are clearly less important than the children of the other Sins. The second to last chapter was basically dedicated to namedropping Tristan and Lancelot, and then Tristan got to be the star of the final chapter while Lancelot got his own one-shot. Meanwhile King and Diane's kid has not been shown at all or even named. It's pretty clear that there's some favoritism going on here. The second reason is that even though King and Diane's child is a half-giant, they are also a half-fairy and not in any way related to humans. That means their connection to Chaos isn't as strong and it would also mean that half of the 4 Knights would be fairies, which would give a disproportionate amount of importance to the fairy clan who are clearly not as relevant as humans. Lastly, rather than joining a human kingdom like the 4 Knights will probably end up doing, I think the child that represents the unification of the fairy clan and the giant clan would be better utilized as the central figure in some sort of a conflict involving the two clans.
I offer but one retort...



We already suffering enough as it is. Just let us have the hope at least.
 

Redworld96

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It seems like Sir Bors as possible character is really underestimated (or maybe people didn't read about him enough), who was also a key character on Percival's story and Legend... Holy Grail, you know.
 

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Today I present to you fine fellows a TED talk on the topic of "The final member of the Four Knights of the Apocalypse". It's a relatively long read so proceed with caution.

I was thinking about the identity of the 4th Knight of the Apocalypse recently. It's of course impossible to know exactly what Nakaba is planning, but there seem to be two distinct patterns with the other 3 Knights and it's likely that the final Knight will follow at least one of them. The first one, which I think has received more attention, is that Percival, Tristan and Lancelot are some of the most famous Knights of the Round Table in the Arthurian Legends. This fame extends to modern times as well, as can be seen from their Wikipedia pages listing all the various modern depictions of these characters. Looking at this pattern there are only a couple of other characters with similar levels of fame: Galahad, Gawain and arguably Mordred.

Out of these three, Gawain is the most likely option. Gawain is known for having the same power as Escanor, and Nakaba already teased the appearance of the next host of Sunshine in the sketches of the sequel back when it was first announced. We can be pretty much certain that he will have a major role in this series. There's also the fact that Nakaba seems to really like Gawain in particular, because he named the main character of his golf series after Gawain. However, you could also use this fact to argue that Gawain is not going to be a main character in this series, because Nakaba has already featured him prominently in a previous work. I don't think that's necessarily very meaningful though, because that particular series also featured a Lancelot in it and we know that didn't stop Lancelot from becoming a main character in this series.

Of the remaining two candidates, Mordred is probably the more likely option, but the problem with him is that he is one of the main antagonists in the legends. He might fit the pattern of being well known, but rather than being known for his heroic acts he's known for the opposite, so if anything he actually doesn't fit in with the other 3 Knights at all. There's also the problem of his age since he is Arthur's son and Arthur is so young that he may not have had kids until recently if at all. The final candidate, Galahad, would typically be the most obvious main character possible, but there are two obstacles for him here. The big one is that his role in the Legends in a way replaced Percival's role as the hero of the Holy Grail and that's obviously a huge issue since Percival is the most important main character in the sequel so we can't have another character overshadowing him. Another problem is that Nakaba has so far been quite faithful to the canonical parentage of the Knights and Galahad just so happens to be Lancelot's son. It's possible that very detail could have been the reason why Nakaba chose to use Percival rather than the more famous Galahad as the main character of the sequel, since they play a similar role but one comes with timeline issues while the other one does not.

The second pattern which seems to be present among the 4 Knights is that they are composed of a very diverse set of members, just like the Sins. Percival is a human at least according to Nakaba, Tristan is a nephilim or a half-demon half-goddess(technically half-demon, quarter-goddess and quarter-human) and Lancelot is a half-fairy half-human. Every major clan except for the giants have representation in the main team and it would really rub me the wrong if the giants were completely sidelined here especially after Nakaba already neglected them heavily in NNT. A more obscure detail is that each member seems to be connected to humanity in some way. Percival and Lancelot are obvious and Tristan is technically partly human as well, but more importantly humans are basically just a balanced mixture of light and darkness, which is what Tristan is all about. On paper he's a nephilim, but he shares the same notable attribute as humans. I think this detail is very relevant because the sequel has a heavy focus on Chaos and humans of course have a stronger affinity to Chaos than the other clans.

Looking at these details you could reason that the final Knight should be descended from both humans and giants. It just so happens that there is a character in the Arthurian legends called Galehaut who is a half-giant half-human and also of the Knights of the Round Table as well as a close friend of Lancelot. Interestingly, one of the databooks mentioned that what Matrona wants the most is to have kids with Zalpa, which seems like a probable setup to bring Galehaut into the story, be it as one of the 4 Knights or just as a side character. I mean what's even the point of the Zalpa romance otherwise? Speaking of Zalpa, one of the databooks revealed that he respects the dragon god, which is an entity that was never explained in any way in NNT. This recent reveal about the dragon handle part of the COED symbolizing the Chaos Dragon could be related to this previously mentioned dragon god. If Zalpa's kid inherits their father's religion or tribal customs then the dragon handle would make for a very fitting weapon for them. Meliodas at one point used the handle to manifest some sort of a ghostly dragon to intimidate Oslo, so it seems to have its own magic powers that were never really explored. A half-giant connected to the Chaos Dragon sounds pretty cool and I think someone like that could conceivably keep up with the other 4 Knights in terms of strength.

Leaving the race, background and powers aside, the major problem with Galehaut is that he is nowhere near as famous as the other 3 Knights. In fact he's so poorly known that people often think Galehaut is just a different spelling of the name Galahad. Of the two patterns present in the composition of the 4 Knights, he fits the racial makeup one perfectly but totally breaks the one involving their fame. Gawain is basically the opposite of that in that he's very famous, but just a human like Percival. Of course it's not like Tristan in the legends is a nephilim, so Nakaba could easily take some liberties with Gawain's race. He would probably have to ignore the fact that Gawain is usually Arthur's nephew, which doesn't really sound all that important to be fair. If Gawain was a half-giant half-human then perhaps that extra toughness might help him withstand the strain of Sunshine and thus avoid the same fate as Escanor.

Something worth addressing is that many people want King and Diane's kid to be the final member of the 4 Knights, but I think that's unlikely for a few reasons. The first one is that they are clearly less important than the children of the other Sins. The second to last chapter was basically dedicated to namedropping Tristan and Lancelot, and then Tristan got to be the star of the final chapter while Lancelot got his own one-shot. Meanwhile King and Diane's kid has not been shown at all or even named. It's pretty clear that there's some favoritism going on here. The second reason is that even though King and Diane's child is a half-giant, they are also a half-fairy and not in any way related to humans. That means their connection to Chaos isn't as strong and it would also mean that half of the 4 Knights would be fairies, which would give a disproportionate amount of importance to the fairy clan who are clearly not as relevant as humans. Lastly, rather than joining a human kingdom like the 4 Knights will probably end up doing, I think the child that represents the unification of the fairy clan and the giant clan would be better utilized as the central figure in some sort of a conflict involving the two clans.

In conclusion, Gawain is the most likely candidate to be the final member of the 4 Knights, but if Nakaba goes through with that then I really hope he makes Gawain into a half-giant because the giant clan deserves to have one representative among the main characters. If Nakaba decides to be faithful to the legends then Gawain might just be one of Arthur's closest allies in which case the final Knight would probably be Galehaut against all expectations. Mordred will most likely be a villain just like in almost every story about King Arthur. Galahad probably won't appear at all, although some sort of a time travel arc where he comes back from or where Percival travels to an apocalyptic Chaos future would be pretty cool. King and Diane's kid seems like a good way to explore the future of those two clans so I don't think they will join the main squad. Likewise Zeldris and Gelda's kid will do something similar with the demon and vampire clans, and perhaps Mael has a kid who will do the same thing with the goddess clan. Maybe Nakaba will even remember that the beastmen exist and throw them a bone, which actually sounds quite racist now that I think about it.
I was told about your post, and because I found it really interesting, I decided to mention some elements mostly from the actual legend I know about. I don't have the intention of theorizing much about the manga itself though.

I'll start by a manga related fact lol:
Escanor was a human, but his sacred treasure Rhitta was made using giant technology and the one who made it was a giant master craftsman. This may lead to more revelation on why Dabuzu knew how to make something that could respond to the grace and who used it before Escanor.

Now about the Arthurian legend itself. There are several factors in the downfall of Camelot. Arthur himself took the first step towards that end by impregnating his own sister. This way Mordred was born. Then it was Merlin who suggested Arthur should kill qll the babies born on the same day as Mordred to get rid of him.
Another important event that set the stage for the downfall of Camelot was the search for the Holy Grail which permanently affected Arthur's court.
Those who had a very prominent role in that event were Percival, Bors, and Galahad. As @Redworld96 has already mentioned, Bors is a prominent knight when it comes tk the holy grail, and as a relative of Lancelot, he was involved in some of the endgame events. However, Percival and Lancelot pretty much cover everything relating to the grail or future struggles and Bors is more like a supporting character than a distinct hero. Galahad is the ideal knight for this purpose, but as you said, there would be timeline and parenting issues that makes it hard to use him as the MC.
Lancelot is another knight to have a huge role in fall of Arthur. His relationship with Arthur's wife led to a series of event that caused the knights of the round table to split and declare war to each other, and Gawain was the one whose mistakes during that time paved the way for Mordred to commit treason against Arthur and usurp his throne.

This is thus a list of people/events that had a very prominent role in the events of Arthurian apocalypse!

1. Arthur
2. Merlin
3. The search for the holy grail, the representative for this one here is Percival
4. Lancelot
5. Gawain
6. Mordred
 
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Samael Morningstar

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Hey what if Holy Grail would be an power to oppose that of the powers of Chaos Arthur

I mean I think these 4 knights won't just individually or as a group be a threat Arthur (they might be but not much) but their actual purpose is to use their powers and bring forth the Holy Grail which shall contain powers to dethron Arthur!?
 

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However, Percival and Lancelot pretty much cover everything relating to the grail or future struggles and Bors is more like a supporting character than a distinct hero

About that:

A friend shared to me the book "Arthur's death" which tells almost all the knights' aventures, Holy Grail included, and actually Lancelot always failed when it comes to find it, he tried several times but he was just not worthy. Only 3 persons were chosen because Percival, Bors and Galahad where the only knights of the Round Table "whose hearts were to be affirmed in humility and patience".
"The only 3 pure knights", according to the book. Bors and Percival experimented together that famous adventure, along with Galahand. And at the end, only Bors is the one knight of the three to survive and return to Arthur. Bors was also distinc hero on its own anyway, I've read few chapters of him and he was a knight with principles and always helping those in need. And very kind since he helped and supported his cousin Lancelot with all the drama he had with the Queen Guinevere.
 

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It seems like Sir Bors as possible character is really underestimated (or maybe people didn't read about him enough), who was also a key character on Percival's story and Legend... Holy Grail, you know.
Sir Bors has a big chance to be one of King & Diane's children, since he's the most famous cousin of Sir Lancelot (the other one being his brother Lionel). He could also be the 4th KoA, who knows?

Speaking of the knights of the round table, there is also Sir Lamorak, whom Sir Thomas Malory (Author of Le Morte D'Arthur) referred to as King Arthur's third best knight


He is also a brother of Percival, and might be the one Ironside meant when he said:
 

Redworld96

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Sir Bors has a big chance to be one of King & Diane's children, since he's the most famous cousin of Sir Lancelot (the other one being his brother Lionel).
Yeah, not to mention that last month Nakaba alluded siblings inside the Legend of Arthur when he started talking about their kid appearing on the sequel. Bors and Lionel have definitely the most % to be their offspring, they're Ban and Elaine's nephews on the legend after all, and Bors is one of the mayor knights of the RT while also having an important story with Percival and Lancelot (this last one says Bors is his favourite cousin).
 

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In principle, to say that Tristan is "half" demon & "quarter" goddess contradicts with his existence as a Nephilim, because Darkness will be far stronger than Light within him and thus cancelling it once and for all. The only possible state of affairs where Darkness & Light can co-exist within him is when they are in a perfect equality and balance. The "human" part of him is "neutral", so it will have no real effect once the balance between PoD & Ark is broken. Also the fact that the prophecy mentioned him having both Evilness & Holiness in his eyes makes it pretty clear that the Darkness & Light within him are equal.
I agree that the math doesn't really add up, but I was going by what Elizabeth herself stated in chapter 345 when she was pregnant with Tristan.

I assume Nakaba put the comment there to set up some sort of a future plot point. It could even be related to the issue of balance that you brought up. Perhaps the excess darkness is causing problems for him and he gets a powerup when he manages to balance it out with more goddess power.

I offer but one retort...



We already suffering enough as it is. Just let us have the hope at least.
I assume you're referring to the relevancy of King and Diane's kid, in which in case I wouldn't be too worried if I were you. People place a huge amount of importance on who's going to be part of the main squad, but if you look at NNT there were plenty of characters outside of the Sins who still managed to have a large presence in the story. Gilthunder, Howzer, Hendy, Dreyfus and Jericho kept showing up in arc after arc until the end. Mael/Estarossa was a central figure in the 2nd half of the story and Zeldris was such a big deal that he apparently managed to steal the spotlight from the Sins in the 2nd movie. I have no doubt that King and Diane's child will be relevant in multiple arcs over the course of the story, even if I don't think they are very likely candidates to join the main squad. And who knows, maybe my analysis was actually totally off and they'll end up joining anyway. I really just want the final member of the 4 Knights to have some giant genes in them so I wouldn't complain about that (much).

It seems like Sir Bors as possible character is really underestimated (or maybe people didn't read about him enough), who was also a key character on Percival's story and Legend... Holy Grail, you know.
Bors has been talked about in connection to King and Diane a couple of times before. I think the surprise MVP out of nowhere is going to be Gareth who has only been mentioned a single time as part of a list of names even though he had an entire book dedicated to him in Le Morte d'Arthur.

Sir Bors has a big chance to be one of King & Diane's children, since he's the most famous cousin of Sir Lancelot (the other one being his brother Lionel). He could also be the 4th KoA, who knows?

Speaking of the knights of the round table, there is also Sir Lamorak, whom Sir Thomas Malory (Author of Le Morte D'Arthur) referred to as King Arthur's third best knight


He is also a brother of Percival, and might be the one Ironside meant when he said:
King and Diane's kid being either Bors or Lionel would fit the family relations in terms of them being Lancelot's cousin, but I wouldn't be entirely sure about that since Harlequin and Diane themselves aren't really associated with the legends. There is a Diane in the legends but she's known for killing her lover so that she could be with another man, who then killed her in turn. That doesn't really sound like the source of inspiration for Diane to me. I think the situation with King and Diane might be a bit different from that of Meliodas, Elizabeth, Ban and Elaine who were obviously named with Tristan and Lancelot in mind. That could actually tie into why we didn't see Diane pregnant the same way we did Elizabeth and Elaine, since dropping an OC name wouldn't really have the same impact. I would rather have Bors and/or Lionel though.

I've also thought about the possibility of Ironside having another son and I even wondered if Ironside's comment to Anne could have been foreshadowing some sort of a love triangle situation. Lamorak falls for Anne who is crushing on Percival, leading to a conflict between the two brothers.

Ironside having another son could also be connected to the green knight, who in some stories is Ironside's son. I find this interesting because from what I understand, in Le Morte d'Arthur there are four important colored knights: red, green, blue and black. There are other colored knights such as the white knight who appear in other works and Nakaba is also adding in some entirely new ones such as Talisker who is the amber knight, but so far it seems like the aforementioned prominent colored knights are much stronger than the others. Ironside(the red knight) is in a completely different league compared to Talisker while Pellegarde(the black knight) easily blocked Ironside's attack so he should be at least comparable to Ironside. The green knight could be another elite among Arthur's knights which would be a fitting role for Percival's brother. Then again there's also a story about the green knight where he's an entirely different character involved with Gawain, so perhaps not. Interestingly there are stories where Percival kills Ironside and takes his armor for himself and Lancelot is also sometimes dressed up as the black knight. If you add the Gawain business in there, you could have a situation where the 4 Knights actually take the place of these colored knights at some point in the story. I kinda want Pellegarde to live though since he seems pretty chill.
 

Blazar

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About that:

A friend shared to me the book "Arthur's death" which tells almost all the knights' aventures, Holy Grail included, and actually Lancelot always failed when it comes to find it, he tried several times but he was just not worthy. Only 3 persons were chosen because Percival, Bors and Galahad where the only knights of the Round Table "whose hearts were to be affirmed in humility and patience".
"The only 3 pure knights", according to the book. Bors and Percival experimented together that famous adventure, along with Galahand. And at the end, only Bors is the one knight of the three to survive and return to Arthur. Bors was also distinc hero on its own anyway, I've read few chapters of him and he was a knight with principles and always helping those in need. And very kind since he helped and supported his cousin Lancelot with all the drama he had with the Queen Guinevere.
Oh sorry ma'am, by distinct hero, I meant the one you can call the protagonist of an adventure like he is mostly bearing the burden of the story.
Bors sure is a very well defined character in Arthurian legend, and an important knight among the knights of the round table.

Based on what I know about the stories, the kind of purity that was more important for the author of Le Morte d'Arthur and some other late versions was more about chastity and virginity. Lancelot and Gawain failed to attain the grail prominently because of their affairs with women.
It seems the late versions had more ties with religious teachings and to be specific, virginity is believed to be of high importance in the holy grail story.


Btw, did you know there is a character called Bors in Nakaba's Chiguhagu Lovers manga who shares the same design with Demon Gowther of NnT. If Nakaba has used him before, there is no reason to believe he won't be using him once more, especially in a manga featuring Lancelot.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

However, I'm done with 4KotA for now, but for those interested in Arthurian legend and related stories in general, you may want to check the 2021 movie The Green Knight this year. (release date: July 30)
 
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Samael Morningstar

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Oh sorry ma'am, by distinct hero, I meang the one you can call the protagonist of an adventure like he is mostly bearing the burden of the story.
Bors sure is a very well defined character in Arthurian legend, and a important knight among the knights of the round table.

Based on what I know about the stories, the kind of purity that was more important for the author of Le Morte d'Arthur and some other late versions was more about chastity and virginity. Lancelot and Gawain failed to attain the grail prominently because of their affairs with women.
It seems the late versions had more ties with religious teachings and to be specific, virginity is believed to be of high importance in the holy grail story.


Btw, did you know there is a character called Bors in Nakaba's Chiguhagu Lovers manga who is shares the same design with Demon Gowther of NnT. If Nakaba has used him before, there is no reason to believe he won't be using him once more, especially in a manga featuring Lancelot.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

However, I'm done with 4KotA for now, but for those interested in Arthurian legend and related stories in general, you may want to check the 2020 movie The Green Knight this year. (release date: July 30)
Oh damn so Percival will remain a virgin this whole time because he has to get his hands on the holy grail!? lol, so he would be in the howser, Mael and Escanor club

That Green Knight Movie right!?
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Damn it feels like I'm sitting in a Arthurian history class lmao
 

Blazar

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Oh damn so Percival will remain a virgin this whole time because he has to get his hands on the holy grail!? lol, so he would be in the howser, Mael and Escanor club

That Green Knight Movie right!?
It depends on the version and the author, and Percival is not always a virgin, but as far as I know, in Mallory's verson which is one of the best known and most complete versions, Percival and Galahad are virgin knights who die after the task is completed!

It however doesn't mean Nakaba's Percy is gonna follow that route, but there was clearly a mention of his veracity confirmed by Anne I think. It might be a reference to the Percival of the Arthurian legend who was a pure (and somtimes virgin) knight.

The movie is based on "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" tale. I'm not sure if I should mention it here, but many fans of Nakaba's manga are probably old or new fans of Arthurian legends, so I decided they want to see this independent film when it comes out!
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

That Green Knight Movie right!?
My bad, the movie is scheduled for 2021, but I mistakenly wrote 2020 in my post.
I edited it btw.
 

Ann Firestar

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Because we mentioned “The Green Knight” movie here, I want to say that in some trailers there is a TALKING FOX of all things.
I think that means that Sin also has some very specific inspiration from the legends, but I’m not sure.
 

Demonspeed

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I voted Lancelot in the poll because of a possible link with Sin and Ban but thinking about it again it'll probably be Tristan? The NNT anime adaptation ended recently, they teased NNT readers saying that the next chapter is a must for NNT readers and advertised MnY's first volume in a tweet recently too.

So I guess the goal is to have NNT fans who watched the anime read the manga, but MnY volumes read the magazine and then see Tristan or something.

Today I present to you fine fellows a TED talk on the topic of "The final member of the Four Knights of the Apocalypse". It's a relatively long read so proceed with caution.

I was thinking about the identity of the 4th Knight of the Apocalypse recently. It's of course impossible to know exactly what Nakaba is planning, but there seem to be two distinct patterns with the other 3 Knights and it's likely that the final Knight will follow at least one of them. The first one, which I think has received more attention, is that Percival, Tristan and Lancelot are some of the most famous Knights of the Round Table in the Arthurian Legends. This fame extends to modern times as well, as can be seen from their Wikipedia pages listing all the various modern depictions of these characters. Looking at this pattern there are only a couple of other characters with similar levels of fame: Galahad, Gawain and arguably Mordred.

Out of these three, Gawain is the most likely option. Gawain is known for having the same power as Escanor, and Nakaba already teased the appearance of the next host of Sunshine in the sketches of the sequel back when it was first announced. We can be pretty much certain that he will have a major role in this series. There's also the fact that Nakaba seems to really like Gawain in particular, because he named the main character of his golf series after Gawain. However, you could also use this fact to argue that Gawain is not going to be a main character in this series, because Nakaba has already featured him prominently in a previous work. I don't think that's necessarily very meaningful though, because that particular series also featured a Lancelot in it and we know that didn't stop Lancelot from becoming a main character in this series.

Of the remaining two candidates, Mordred is probably the more likely option, but the problem with him is that he is one of the main antagonists in the legends. He might fit the pattern of being well known, but rather than being known for his heroic acts he's known for the opposite, so if anything he actually doesn't fit in with the other 3 Knights at all. There's also the problem of his age since he is Arthur's son and Arthur is so young that he may not have had kids until recently if at all. The final candidate, Galahad, would typically be the most obvious main character possible, but there are two obstacles for him here. The big one is that his role in the Legends in a way replaced Percival's role as the hero of the Holy Grail and that's obviously a huge issue since Percival is the most important main character in the sequel so we can't have another character overshadowing him. Another problem is that Nakaba has so far been quite faithful to the canonical parentage of the Knights and Galahad just so happens to be Lancelot's son. It's possible that very detail could have been the reason why Nakaba chose to use Percival rather than the more famous Galahad as the main character of the sequel, since they play a similar role but one comes with timeline issues while the other one does not.

The second pattern which seems to be present among the 4 Knights is that they are composed of a very diverse set of members, just like the Sins. Percival is a human at least according to Nakaba, Tristan is a nephilim or a half-demon half-goddess(technically half-demon, quarter-goddess and quarter-human) and Lancelot is a half-fairy half-human. Every major clan except for the giants have representation in the main team and it would really rub me the wrong if the giants were completely sidelined here especially after Nakaba already neglected them heavily in NNT. A more obscure detail is that each member seems to be connected to humanity in some way. Percival and Lancelot are obvious and Tristan is technically partly human as well, but more importantly humans are basically just a balanced mixture of light and darkness, which is what Tristan is all about. On paper he's a nephilim, but he shares the same notable attribute as humans. I think this detail is very relevant because the sequel has a heavy focus on Chaos and humans of course have a stronger affinity to Chaos than the other clans.

Looking at these details you could reason that the final Knight should be descended from both humans and giants. It just so happens that there is a character in the Arthurian legends called Galehaut who is a half-giant half-human and also of the Knights of the Round Table as well as a close friend of Lancelot. Interestingly, one of the databooks mentioned that what Matrona wants the most is to have kids with Zalpa, which seems like a probable setup to bring Galehaut into the story, be it as one of the 4 Knights or just as a side character. I mean what's even the point of the Zalpa romance otherwise? Speaking of Zalpa, one of the databooks revealed that he respects the dragon god, which is an entity that was never explained in any way in NNT. This recent reveal about the dragon handle part of the COED symbolizing the Chaos Dragon could be related to this previously mentioned dragon god. If Zalpa's kid inherits their father's religion or tribal customs then the dragon handle would make for a very fitting weapon for them. Meliodas at one point used the handle to manifest some sort of a ghostly dragon to intimidate Oslo, so it seems to have its own magic powers that were never really explored. A half-giant connected to the Chaos Dragon sounds pretty cool and I think someone like that could conceivably keep up with the other 4 Knights in terms of strength.

Leaving the race, background and powers aside, the major problem with Galehaut is that he is nowhere near as famous as the other 3 Knights. In fact he's so poorly known that people often think Galehaut is just a different spelling of the name Galahad. Of the two patterns present in the composition of the 4 Knights, he fits the racial makeup one perfectly but totally breaks the one involving their fame. Gawain is basically the opposite of that in that he's very famous, but just a human like Percival. Of course it's not like Tristan in the legends is a nephilim, so Nakaba could easily take some liberties with Gawain's race. He would probably have to ignore the fact that Gawain is usually Arthur's nephew, which doesn't really sound all that important to be fair. If Gawain was a half-giant half-human then perhaps that extra toughness might help him withstand the strain of Sunshine and thus avoid the same fate as Escanor.

Something worth addressing is that many people want King and Diane's kid to be the final member of the 4 Knights, but I think that's unlikely for a few reasons. The first one is that they are clearly less important than the children of the other Sins. The second to last chapter was basically dedicated to namedropping Tristan and Lancelot, and then Tristan got to be the star of the final chapter while Lancelot got his own one-shot. Meanwhile King and Diane's kid has not been shown at all or even named. It's pretty clear that there's some favoritism going on here. The second reason is that even though King and Diane's child is a half-giant, they are also a half-fairy and not in any way related to humans. That means their connection to Chaos isn't as strong and it would also mean that half of the 4 Knights would be fairies, which would give a disproportionate amount of importance to the fairy clan who are clearly not as relevant as humans. Lastly, rather than joining a human kingdom like the 4 Knights will probably end up doing, I think the child that represents the unification of the fairy clan and the giant clan would be better utilized as the central figure in some sort of a conflict involving the two clans.

In conclusion, Gawain is the most likely candidate to be the final member of the 4 Knights, but if Nakaba goes through with that then I really hope he makes Gawain into a half-giant because the giant clan deserves to have one representative among the main characters. If Nakaba decides to be faithful to the legends then Gawain might just be one of Arthur's closest allies in which case the final Knight would probably be Galehaut against all expectations. Mordred will most likely be a villain just like in almost every story about King Arthur. Galahad probably won't appear at all, although some sort of a time travel arc where he comes back from or where Percival travels to an apocalyptic Chaos future would be pretty cool. King and Diane's kid seems like a good way to explore the future of those two clans so I don't think they will join the main squad. Likewise Zeldris and Gelda's kid will do something similar with the demon and vampire clans, and perhaps Mael has a kid who will do the same thing with the goddess clan. Maybe Nakaba will even remember that the beastmen exist and throw them a bone, which actually sounds quite racist now that I think about it.
Gawain as Half-Giant seems cool but then he would have both Sunshine and Creation? Two Magics?
 
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