Discussion Mokushiroku no Yonkishi by Suzuki Nakaba

Next Sin to appear in the story?

  • Meliodas

  • Diane

  • Ban

  • King

  • Gowther


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Demonspeed

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I don't think Cath has anything to do with this, he died. There is no reason to believe he would have some influence over Arthur.

His goal was also total destruction, this isn't in line with the current actions of Arthur and his subordinates.
 

Rikudou King

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Could Cath perhaps taint Arthurs personality?
From what we were given, Cath was Chaos' destructive desire personified. Being rejoined with the rest of Chaos, Cath probably wouldn't have that much influence, if any. Cath also cared nothing about humans, which wouldn't fit with what we know about the current Arthur. Of course, that doesn't mean another portion of Chaos can't be tainting Arthur, perhaps the part of Chaos that loved humanity more then it's other creations.
 

sobreno

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And? Like i said those 3 have the better feats💀
And Zeldoris will have a zenkai boost from the events in the movie. It seems that the SD trashed the sins around and Mel/Zel duo is the one defeating her.
 

Ban the goat

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And Zeldoris will have a zenkai boost from the events in the movie. It seems that the SD trashed the sins around and Mel/Zel duo is the one defeating her.
Not sure how that takes away from what I said about merlin and those three i mentioned
 
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I don't think Cath has anything to do with this, he died. There is no reason to believe he would have some influence over Arthur.

His goal was also total destruction, this isn't in line with the current actions of Arthur and his subordinates.
Idk I only read that somewhere in this or another thread. And yes but he absorbed him, is that still dying? I mean, Arthur couldn't kill him so instead absorbed him to defeat him.
And with tainted I mean not about his destructive side. I mean only to influence him negative.
 

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Technically speaking, he is quarter Human, which means he is more Demon than he is Human or Goddess.

That, however, will probably be overlooked by Nakaba. Since we already know that Evilness and Holiness are half and half, represented by his eyes.
I always thought Nakaba had Elizabeth address the human part because of how glass cannon-ish that makes her and maybe eventually Tristan as well, whenever it suits the mangaka.
I was told about your post, and because I fout it really interesting, I decided to mention some elements mostly from the actual legend I know about. I don't have the intention of theorizing much about the manga itself though.

I'll start by a manga related fact lol:
Escanor was a human, but his sacred treasure Rhitta was made using giant technology and the one who made it was a giant master craftsman. This may lead to more revelation on why Dabuzu knew how to make something that could respond to the grace and who used it before Escanor.

Now about the Arthurian legend itself. There are several factors in the downfall of Camelot. Arthur himself took the first step towards that end by impregnating his own sister. This way Mordred was born. Then it was Merlin who suggested Arthur should kill qll the babies born on the same day as Mordred to get rid of him.
Another important event that set the stage for the downfall of Camelot was the search for the Holy Grail which permanently affected Arthur's court.
Those who had a very prominent role in that event were Percival, Bors, and Galahad. As @Redworld96 has already mentioned, Bors is a prominent knight when it comes tk the holy grail, and as a relative of Lancelot, he was involved in some of the endgame events. However, Percival and Lancelot pretty much cover everything relating to the grail or future struggles and Bors is more like a supporting character than a distinct hero. Galahad is the ideal knight for this purpose, but as you said, there would be timeline and parenting issues that makes it hard to use him as the MC.
Lancelot is another knight to have a huge role in fall of Arthur. His relationship with Arthur's wife led to a series of event that caused the knights of the round table to split and declare war to each other, and Gawain was the one whose mistakes during that time paved the way for Mordred to commit treason against Arthur and usurp his throne.

This is thus a list of people/events that had a very prominent role in the events of Arthurian apocalypse!

1. Arthur
2. Merlin
3. The search for the holy grail, the representative for this one here is Percival
4. Lancelot
5. Gawain
6. Mordred
I'd like to give a friendly reminder, Nakaba doesn't always play the elements he borrows from these legends straight. He altered Gowther, gender-bent Merlin, he had a mention of a kingdom sunken by a huge wave(which in real life Arthurian lore is the fate of Lyonesse, before Tristan gets to inherit anything), but so far Liones is still standing(maybe lightbulb grandmama tries to tsunami it off the face of the Earth but Ellie goes "No, U!" in the movie, still trying to remember if it was a Cath piece of dialogue in the anime or one of the tales at the beginning of MnY that reminded me of sunken Lyonesse)
Hey what if Holy Grail would be an power to oppose that of the powers of Chaos Arthur

I mean I think these 4 knights won't just individually or as a group be a threat Arthur (they might be but not much) but their actual purpose is to use their powers and bring forth the Holy Grail which shall contain powers to dethron Arthur!?
Sam, you've watched too much Sailor Moon...but I agree :fan
I agree that the math doesn't really add up, but I was going by what Elizabeth herself stated in chapter 345 when she was pregnant with Tristan.

I assume Nakaba put the comment there to set up some sort of a future plot point. It could even be related to the issue of balance that you brought up. Perhaps the excess darkness is causing problems for him and he gets a powerup when he manages to balance it out with more goddess power.


I assume you're referring to the relevancy of King and Diane's kid, in which in case I wouldn't be too worried if I were you. People place a huge amount of importance on who's going to be part of the main squad, but if you look at NNT there were plenty of characters outside of the Sins who still managed to have a large presence in the story. Gilthunder, Howzer, Hendy, Dreyfus and Jericho kept showing up in arc after arc until the end. Mael/Estarossa was a central figure in the 2nd half of the story and Zeldris was such a big deal that he apparently managed to steal the spotlight from the Sins in the 2nd movie. I have no doubt that King and Diane's child will be relevant in multiple arcs over the course of the story, even if I don't think they are very likely candidates to join the main squad. And who knows, maybe my analysis was actually totally off and they'll end up joining anyway. I really just want the final member of the 4 Knights to have some giant genes in them so I wouldn't complain about that (much).


Bors has been talked about in connection to King and Diane a couple of times before. I think the surprise MVP out of nowhere is going to be Gareth who has only been mentioned a single time as part of a list of names even though he had an entire book dedicated to him in Le Morte d'Arthur.


King and Diane's kid being either Bors or Lionel would fit the family relations in terms of them being Lancelot's cousin, but I wouldn't be entirely sure about that since Harlequin and Diane themselves aren't really associated with the legends. There is a Diane in the legends but she's known for killing her lover so that she could be with another man, who then killed her in turn. That doesn't really sound like the source of inspiration for Diane to me. I think the situation with King and Diane might be a bit different from that of Meliodas, Elizabeth, Ban and Elaine who were obviously named with Tristan and Lancelot in mind. That could actually tie into why we didn't see Diane pregnant the same way we did Elizabeth and Elaine, since dropping an OC name wouldn't really have the same impact. I would rather have Bors and/or Lionel though.

I've also thought about the possibility of Ironside having another son and I even wondered if Ironside's comment to Anne could have been foreshadowing some sort of a love triangle situation. Lamorak falls for Anne who is crushing on Percival, leading to a conflict between the two brothers.

Ironside having another son could also be connected to the green knight, who in some stories is Ironside's son. I find this interesting because from what I understand, in Le Morte d'Arthur there are four important colored knights: red, green, blue and black. There are other colored knights such as the white knight who appear in other works and Nakaba is also adding in some entirely new ones such as Talisker who is the amber knight, but so far it seems like the aforementioned prominent colored knights are much stronger than the others. Ironside(the red knight) is in a completely different league compared to Talisker while Pellegarde(the black knight) easily blocked Ironside's attack so he should be at least comparable to Ironside. The green knight could be another elite among Arthur's knights which would be a fitting role for Percival's brother. Then again there's also a story about the green knight where he's an entirely different character involved with Gawain, so perhaps not. Interestingly there are stories where Percival kills Ironside and takes his armor for himself and Lancelot is also sometimes dressed up as the black knight. If you add the Gawain business in there, you could have a situation where the 4 Knights actually take the place of these colored knights at some point in the story. I kinda want Pellegarde to live though since he seems pretty chill.
Nakaba has taken liberties with anachronism in Taizai before, he can add characters that in the RL lore wouldn't even be born yet or would have a different backgorund than what he gives them, he's about as brave as BBC with his Arthurian characters and topics...that being said, I'm a bit iffy about Nakaba giving the male MC another bio brother(thinking of the Mel & Zel situation and how balancing the relationship developemnts between Mel and friends with the one between Mel and his bio family kinda failed and I don't think another go at the same situation would help the plot much) while he's busy bonding at about the same level with his male friends...if Nakaba starts with this again, one side is about to suffer from shabby development.
Sunshine and Creation? Two Magics?
A combo, if the holder is a hybrid, they would get closer to the true nature of the undifferentiated Chaos and maybe that would not allow a Grace(Ark derived power) and a Giant essential power to just co-exist, but rather try to mix.
Arthur this chapter, so he really has been an evil king!!!????
I'm not sure how evil he seems, for now he's an extreme cinic...racist, pretty much(but that can be an effect of misguidance)...or he's somehow influenced/trapped by Chaos(starting to think he's not able to control Chaos' after-effects on him and he wants off his immortality, as a side dish to trying to prove the impossibility of establishing harmony between the main sentient races by challenging the KoA to try and take him down and maybe nullify something he and or Merlin can't deal with on their own?...still very odd that he'd allow his knights to terrorise and try to massacre whole communities of humans.
A bit disappoiting to see Arthur looking the same as when he was 16..
I find it more okay than a realistic age progress, since at some point they might also introduce Guinevere, and Nakaba might want to avoid squeaking his teenage readers out, the ones who don't talk/think about "milfs" all day long. Besides, as an immortal and reality bender, controling his appearance would be a piece of cake...now I'm curious whether the mirror part of his throne's backrest reflects his natural age, like some sort of Dorian Gray portrait.
I like Arthur's throne.
I like and am intrigued by the mirror embedded in it.
I wonder if Nanashi got turned into the chair since he's nowhere to be seen.
😱 Not a particular fan of the guy( I need reminders from Nakaba that he exists at all), but right after I suspected him of being the mystery helper...
I googled Mortlach
Me with Anghalhad cause her name rings some bells but I still can't pin-point from where. Unfortunately I get sent directly to MnY related pages.
Wait something I noticed, there Merlin on his side but not Nanashi!!!!!!!!! What does that mean, also has Arthur also turned Cocky now? Very very out of character for him to be such
Maybe he's just kinda, sorta suicidal...but he's trying to be discreet, for some reason
It looks like tree branches/some type of bush branches and I don't think it's surrounding the castle. The castle looks likes it's behind it and the camera is zooming past a wall of those branches.
Now I need a fan-artist to draw our Arthur-chama in a pink and gold gown, Merlin-san in ominous black horns and Chaos as a "napping curse"(for his true psyche)
They could have an idea of their strength simply by observing Merlin.
Would Merlin let them observe anything? She looks wary for some reason.
like Sin is a fox so probably he's ban, meliodas a dragon, gowther a goat and such.......... Ehh just a wildass theory
:rofl:rofl:roflThank you, can't wait till we meet HK Pelliot...and his pet goat.

I'd like it more if Arthur acts the way that he does now due to his own actions and choices, not the influence of something else.
Except that with how big of an issue Chaos is, as the supreme demiurge, they would have a greater chance at eventually displacing Arthur's will from the driver's seat, and based on the shared perspective of such an entity, Chaos itself is evil through the act of creation. Yes, I know the demiurge and the fabric they use for creation are usually separate and different, but we're dealing with fiction that doesn't do traditional lore by the book anyway and most of the translations went with "Chaos created..." the three gods....the giants...the humans...
 
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Blazar

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I'd like to give a friendly reminder, Nakaba doesn't always play the elements he borrows from these legends straight. He altered Gowther, gender-bent Merlin, he had a mention of a kingdom sunken by a huge wave(which in real life Arthurian lore is the fate of Lyonesse, before Tristan gets to inherit anything), but so far Liones is still standing(maybe lightbulb grandmama tries to tsunami it off the face of the Earth but Ellie goes "No, U!" in the movie, still trying to remember if it was a Cath piece of dialogue in the anime or one of the tales at the beginning of MnY that reminded me of sunken Lyonesse)
Thanks for the reminder. Although I mentioned in my post that my intention is not to make theories, but to provide a list!
 

Undina

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Thanks for the reminder. Although I mentioned in my post that my intention is not to make theories, but to provide a list!
My bad, must've gone through the post too fast and missed that mention, the reminder was meant for everyone debating the possible choices for the Holy Grail questers, I simply forgot to @ the others.
 

Samael Morningstar

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I always thought Nakaba had Elizabeth address the human part because of how glass cannon-ish that makes her and maybe eventually Tristan as well, whenever it suits the mangaka.

I'd like to give a friendly reminder, Nakaba doesn't always play the elements he borrows from these legends straight. He altered Gowther, gender-bent Merlin, he had a mention of a kingdom sunken by a huge wave(which in real life Arthurian lore is the fate of Lyonesse, before Tristan gets to inherit anything), but so far Liones is still standing(maybe lightbulb grandmama tries to tsunami it off the face of the Earth but Ellie goes "No, U!" in the movie, still trying to remember if it was a Cath piece of dialogue in the anime or one of the tales at the beginning of MnY that reminded me of sunken Lyonesse)

Sam, you've watched too much Sailor Moon...but I agree :fan

Nakaba has taken liberties with anachronism in Taizai before, he can add characters that in the RL lore wouldn't even be born yet or would have a different backgorund than what he gives them, he's about as brave as BBC with his Arthurian characters and topics...that being said, I'm a bit iffy about Nakaba giving the male MC another bio brother(thinking of the Mel & Zel situation and how balancing the relationship developemnts between Mel and friends with the one between Mel and his bio family kinda failed and I don't think another go at the same situation would help the plot much) while he's busy bonding at about the same level with his male friends...if Nakaba starts with this again, one side is about to suffer from shabby development.

A combo, if the holder is a hybrid, they would get closer to the true nature of the undifferentiated Chaos and maybe that would not allow a Grace(Ark derived power) and a Giant essential power to just co-exist, but rather try to mix.

I'm not sure how evil he seems, for now he's an extreme cinic...racist, pretty much(but that can be an effect of misguidance)...or he's somehow influenced/trapped by Chaos(starting to think he's not able to control Chaos' after-effects on him and he wants off his immortality, as a side dish to trying to prove the impossibility of establishing harmony between the main sentient races by challenging the KoA to try and take him down and maybe nullify something he and or Merlin can't deal with on their own?...still very odd that he'd allow his knights to terrorise and try to massacre whole communities of humans.

I find it more okay than a realistic age progress, since at some point they might also introduce Guinevere, and Nakaba might want to avoid squeaking his teenage readers out, the ones who don't talk/think about "milfs" all day long. Besides, as an immortal and reality bender, controling his appearance would be a piece of cake...now I'm curious whether the mirror part of his throne's backrest reflects his natural age, like some sort of Dorian Gray portrait.

I like and am intrigued by the mirror embedded in it.

😱 Not a particular fan of the guy( I need reminders from Nakaba that he exists at all), but right after I suspected him of being the mystery helper...

Me with Anghalhad cause her name rings some bells but I still can't pin-point from where. Unfortunately I get sent directly to MnY related pages.

Maybe he's just kinda, sorta suicidal...but he's trying to be discreet, for some reason

Now I need a fan-artist to draw our Arthur-chama in a pink and gold gown, Merlin-san in ominous black horns and Chaos as a "napping curse"(for his true psyche)

Would Merlin let them observe anything? She looks wary for some reason.

:rofl:rofl:roflThank you, can't wait till we meet HK Pelliot...and his pet goat.


Except that with how big of an issue Chaos is, as the supreme demiurge, they would have a greater chance at eventually displacing Arthur's will from the driver's seat, and based on the shared perspective of such an entity, Chaos itself is evil through the act of creation. Yes, I know the demiurge and the fabric they use for creation are usually separate and different, but we're dealing with fiction that doesn't do traditional lore by the book anyway and most of the translations went with "Chaos created..." the three gods....the giants...the humans...
I have never watched Sailor Moon, just made it up
 

Ann Firestar

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Me with Anghalhad cause her name rings some bells but I still can't pin-point from where. Unfortunately I get sent directly to MnY related pages.
I googled her right after we got to know her name, so I have found her origin.
(You can check Wikipedia for full article, but there isn’t much)

Quoting Wikipedia, before anyone even start to ask who it is.

Angharad (/æŋˈhærəd/; Welsh pronunciation: [aˈŋ̊arad]) is a feminine given name in the Welsh language, having a long association with Welsh royalty, history and myth. It translates to English as much loved one. In Welsh mythology, Angharad is the lover of Peredur in the myth cycle The Mabinogion.
 

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I googled her right after we got to know her name, so I have found her origin.
(You can check Wikipedia for full article, but there isn’t much)
It didn't send me to the article, but now I know I've run into her name when researching the Mabinogion, thank you :)
 

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Four Knights of Apocalyse will be released in print by Kodansha USA in Spring 2022
nice..i think it took NNT like 2 years right?..for an english release..ofcourse this being a sequel had its chance high..

Now i can start collecting a series from the very start.
 

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One way Nakaba could present Tristan's dual existence is to portray him as a sort of fusion between Meliodas & Mael in their prime. Design-wise, Tristan remarkably resembles both of them. Power-wise one is stronger during the day and the other is stronger at night. It was the first time ever Nakaba depicted a demon & angel as yin & yang:

 
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Just read 4KOTA Chapter 22.

Most interesting detail is Arthur's throne. It has a Goddess, Demon, Fairy and Giant screaming in pain? Has he really gone full racist? And the idea that the sins would attack the Knights of Camelot implies Merlin/Arthur aren't on good terms with everyone else.

Can't wait to see why he's become low-key evil.
 

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In the back of the movie manga there was this after the first chapter of the sequel. From what i understand they are bringing back the fanart corner which is cool
 

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In the back of the movie manga there was this after the first chapter of the sequel. From what i understand they are bringing back the fanart corner which is cool
I don't understand very well, is he really recruiting for drawing assistants or is it a fanart contest?! The side commentary should naturally happen once a volume, at least(that's what most mangaka do), but here he seems to be promoting a fanart contest with 4KoA merch as prizes/rewards.
 

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Just read 4KOTA Chapter 22.

Most interesting detail is Arthur's throne. It has a Goddess, Demon, Fairy and Giant screaming in pain? Has he really gone full racist? And the idea that the sins would attack the Knights of Camelot implies Merlin/Arthur aren't on good terms with everyone else.

Can't wait to see why he's become low-key evil.
I think it's natiral for him to not like other races..he's got full chaos..last time chaos was full it deemed humans the most perfect creation....
 
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