Discussion Mokushiroku no Yonkishi by Suzuki Nakaba

Next Sin to appear in the story?

  • Meliodas

  • Diane

  • Ban

  • King

  • Gowther


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Zorra_akuma

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Special manuscript is coming apparently
 

OtakuFreak

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Elizabeth only has Destruction via Ark and Restoration via all the healing etc
She's not just these though.. because something like Breath of Bless, neither heals or causes destruction. Just this example is more attuned to being a mental type.

I've already mentioned how many types she could potentially have. Clearly Nakaba has made a mistake, forgetting high ranking Goddesses have 4+ types of magic in just ark alone.
 

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A large part of the reason why some of these magic classifications are confusing is that characters can have so many different powers at the same time. Meliodas has his secret original magic, Full Counter and its variations, Darkness+Helblaze and also Lostvayne's clones. The clones are deception type, Hellblaze can be used for destruction and enchantment, Darkness can be used for restoration(although it can only heal the user) and arguably alteration(covering the skin to harden it, manifesting claws and wings), and then there's Full Counter and its variations which don't really fit any of the types. Powering up and deflecting a spell back at someone could count as destruction I suppose, but then there's Counter Vanish which just negates the spell and is the opposite of destructive. Then again Revenge Counter would be hard to classify as anything else than destruction.

Mel has demonstrated 4 or 5 different types of magic so you could argue that he's hero type, but I think that classification only applies to personal magic. Clan powers, weapon abilities and spells that can be taught don't count as extra magic types. Mel might still have access to multiple types though since his original magic is somewhat of a mystery, even if it seems to be purely destructive so far. Using similar logic you can also leave out Elizabeth's Ark abilities and the abilities King has access to through Chastiefol. Super Healing is restoration and Disaster is probably alteration. Likewise Merlin having learned a gazillion spells doesn't make Infinity a hero type magic. Mael utilizing multiple Commandments as distinct powers doesn't count either and neither should the any of the Graces since they are not inherent abilities. Percival is the only character whose personal magic covers 4 or more types of magic. Chaos is the only other ability with similar properties but it seems like more of a special case because it's the power that created everything, including every type of magic. Perhaps it would be appropriate to call it god type or something.

I didn't understand it like this. People with 2 or more types of Magic are rare and those with 4 (Hero type) are even rarer.
The translation provided by FKS used the phrase "one out of everyone" which implies that there is only one person in the entire world with hero type magic. The same thing was also mentioned by Pellegarde back when the concept of hero type magic was first brought up.

There might be a better way to do this but I'll just quote the post here:
Wait, I just noticed something while checking the raws about the number of people.
Ten thousands people normally translates as 一万人 (ichiman'nin) but the page uses 万人 (ban'nin) which means all people.
So the correct translation would be "one people out of all". Now this makes the hero-type magic even rarer.

On a related note, the famous expression "one for all, all for one" is 一人は万人のために、万人は一人のために which uses the word as well.
 

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I have faith that someday Nakaba will reveal the type of magic for each Deadly Sin, or some japanese asking him via Q&As
Hopefully he gives more insight into where other stuff like Goddess or Demon magic sits in regards to these 9 types.

Also the whole "only Percival is hero type" doesn't make sense when entities like the Gods and Chaos seem to have almost all 9 types of magic.

Is it really just one person at a time or more of a "It's extremely rare, like 0.1% at a time" type deal?
 

HereNThere

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It doesn't make sense until you consider Nakaba's main character fetish. I thought he'd split the hero thing among all 4 Horseman, but that clearly might not be the case.
 

FKS

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The translation provided by FKS used the phrase "one out of everyone" which implies that there is only one person in the entire world with hero type magic. The same thing was also mentioned by Pellegarde back when the concept of hero type magic was first brought up.
I've been reconsidering the 万人 part. It could have been out of 10,000 after all if it turns out that there are also other people possess the Hero type.
The extra page has the word read as man'nin. Still no ichiman'nin but...
 
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Redworld96

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Well, in this case I will keep considering that Percy is for now the only rare person in this story with Hero Type unless a second character with Hero type appears too (not counting the 3 creations of chaos since they are unique themselves). IMO it would feel very forced an old character of NNT would be Hero too since it’s very rare. Same thought if another KoA would be Hero too. I just think Percival would lose that unique esence as the new MC, so it’s better for him to be the only Hero and to keep being special.
 

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A large part of the reason why some of these magic classifications are confusing is that characters can have so many different powers at the same time. Meliodas has his secret original magic, Full Counter and its variations, Darkness+Helblaze and also Lostvayne's clones. The clones are deception type, Hellblaze can be used for destruction and enchantment, Darkness can be used for restoration(although it can only heal the user) and arguably alteration(covering the skin to harden it, manifesting claws and wings), and then there's Full Counter and its variations which don't really fit any of the types. Powering up and deflecting a spell back at someone could count as destruction I suppose, but then there's Counter Vanish which just negates the spell and is the opposite of destructive. Then again Revenge Counter would be hard to classify as anything else than destruction.

Mel has demonstrated 4 or 5 different types of magic so you could argue that he's hero type, but I think that classification only applies to personal magic. Clan powers, weapon abilities and spells that can be taught don't count as extra magic types. Mel might still have access to multiple types though since his original magic is somewhat of a mystery, even if it seems to be purely destructive so far. Using similar logic you can also leave out Elizabeth's Ark abilities and the abilities King has access to through Chastiefol. Super Healing is restoration and Disaster is probably alteration. Likewise Merlin having learned a gazillion spells doesn't make Infinity a hero type magic. Mael utilizing multiple Commandments as distinct powers doesn't count either and neither should the any of the Graces since they are not inherent abilities. Percival is the only character whose personal magic covers 4 or more types of magic. Chaos is the only other ability with similar properties but it seems like more of a special case because it's the power that created everything, including every type of magic. Perhaps it would be appropriate to call it god type or something.


The translation provided by FKS used the phrase "one out of everyone" which implies that there is only one person in the entire world with hero type magic. The same thing was also mentioned by Pellegarde back when the concept of hero type magic was first brought up.

There might be a better way to do this but I'll just quote the post here:
The way to use said Magic are what makes this weird yes. The ST's abilities don't belong to the Sins so they wouldn't count. Full Counter by itself is Enchantment IMO since it needs a medium to be used. The Clones created by Lostvayne are real so can they count as Deception?
She's not just these though.. because something like Breath of Bless, neither heals or causes destruction. Just this example is more attuned to being a mental type.

I've already mentioned how many types she could potentially have. Clearly Nakaba has made a mistake, forgetting high ranking Goddesses have 4+ types of magic in just ark alone.
This would count as Mental yes but Elizabeth never demonstrated that she can use this. IIRC only Ludociel did, along with the SD in the movie. But even if she had this, it would make three at best.


Since it says that Restoration is common among Goddesses I think racial abilities are counted in this.
 

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A large part of the reason why some of these magic classifications are confusing is that characters can have so many different powers at the same time. Meliodas has his secret original magic, Full Counter and its variations, Darkness+Helblaze and also Lostvayne's clones. The clones are deception type, Hellblaze can be used for destruction and enchantment, Darkness can be used for restoration(although it can only heal the user) and arguably alteration(covering the skin to harden it, manifesting claws and wings), and then there's Full Counter and its variations which don't really fit any of the types. Powering up and deflecting a spell back at someone could count as destruction I suppose, but then there's Counter Vanish which just negates the spell and is the opposite of destructive. Then again Revenge Counter would be hard to classify as anything else than destruction.

Mel has demonstrated 4 or 5 different types of magic so you could argue that he's hero type, but I think that classification only applies to personal magic. Clan powers, weapon abilities and spells that can be taught don't count as extra magic types. Mel might still have access to multiple types though since his original magic is somewhat of a mystery, even if it seems to be purely destructive so far. Using similar logic you can also leave out Elizabeth's Ark abilities and the abilities King has access to through Chastiefol. Super Healing is restoration and Disaster is probably alteration. Likewise Merlin having learned a gazillion spells doesn't make Infinity a hero type magic. Mael utilizing multiple Commandments as distinct powers doesn't count either and neither should the any of the Graces since they are not inherent abilities. Percival is the only character whose personal magic covers 4 or more types of magic. Chaos is the only other ability with similar properties but it seems like more of a special case because it's the power that created everything, including every type of magic. Perhaps it would be appropriate to call it god type or something.


The translation provided by FKS used the phrase "one out of everyone" which implies that there is only one person in the entire world with hero type magic. The same thing was also mentioned by Pellegarde back when the concept of hero type magic was first brought up.

There might be a better way to do this but I'll just quote the post here:
Excellent post as usual.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Well, in this case I will keep considering that Percy is for now the only rare person in this story with Hero Type unless a second character with Hero type appears too (not counting the 3 creations of chaos since they are unique themselves). IMO it would feel very forced an old character of NNT would be Hero too since it’s very rare. Same thought if another KoA would be Hero too. I just think Percival would lose that unique esence as the new MC, so it’s better for him to be the only Hero and to keep being special.
Agree, the other KoA already have strong mixed genetical attributes of non Humans Clans.

Tristan is already a Nephilim, which makes him special too.

Lancelot with his half Fairy heritage + whatever from the Lady of the lake.

Percival, being a pure Human (perhaps? Unless his mom isn't Human?) and having the rarest type of magic which works independently of its user.

The last KoA is completely unknown.

For now, this is how it goes for our gang.

Percival: Hero type

Donny: Destruction type?

Nascien: Alteration type

Anne: Search type
 

Demonspeed

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Fairy Heart Reading should count as Search.

Excellent post as usual.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



Agree, the other KoA already have strong mixed genetical attributes of non Humans Clans.

Tristan is already a Nephilim, which makes him special too.

Lancelot with his half Fairy heritage + whatever from the Lady of the lake.

Percival, being a pure Human (perhaps? Unless his mom isn't Human?) and having the rarest type of magic which works independently of its user.

The last KoA is completely unknown.

For now, this is how it goes for our gang.

Percival: Hero type

Donny: Destruction type?

Nascien: Alteration type

Anne: Search type
Alteration and Enchant for Nasiens.

Donny's Magic is still growing but I think it'll be Destruction type.

All the Chaos Knights(Talisker, Ironside, Pelgart) so far have Destruction type Magic and Edlin's is clearly Deception type.
 

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Well, in this case I will keep considering that Percy is for now the only rare person in this story with Hero Type unless a second character with Hero type appears too (not counting the 3 creations of chaos since they are unique themselves). IMO it would feel very forced an old character of NNT would be Hero too since it’s very rare. Same thought if another KoA would be Hero too. I just think Percival would lose that unique esence as the new MC, so it’s better for him to be the only Hero and to keep being special.
i agree it should just be percy otherwise it wont be as special and a bit over done if everyone and their mom has it
 

Meliodaf

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I think some of you are mistaking innate magical abilities with other magical techniques. Everyone does not have hero type magic and those magical techniques are separate from their innate ability
 

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This would count as Mental yes but Elizabeth never demonstrated that she can use this. IIRC only Ludociel did, along with the SD in the movie. But even if she had this, it would make three at best.

Since it says that Restoration is common among Goddesses I think racial abilities are counted in this.
A Q&A confirmed Elizabeth could use the technique, but never would on a basis of morality.

I agree in the idea that Elizabeth has three types of magic. Ark is destructive, healing is restorative and brainwashing is mental. But where does the rest sit? She clearly enchants Mel's blade with ark, which fits very closely to the description of the magic type. She can also cleanse Demon forms, ghost possessions and read people's hearts and souls/intentions.

These don't sit with those three, they're arguably forms of enchantment, search, and alteration magic. Maybe cleansing is just restoration magic and her empathy power isn't magic to begin with.. but enchanting Mel's blade with ark is undeniable.

It would suggest she has four magic types. Which contradicts this whole "Percival is the only one" when other NNT characters also have more than four. I'm thinking maybe that statement only applies to the standing of 4KOTA and ignores NNT.

Seems like another case of Nakaba forgetting what he wrote previously.
 

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What that chubby bird suppose to mean? I’m genuinely confused…
No I understand that someone spying on our heroes, with it… But why it’s so chunky?
I think maybe it’s connected to the next 4KotA we will meet.

Also, Percival now has “Meliodas’s first sword” but now not broken? I see it as MC crown, of sorts.
Remember the bird that was born from mud ..and stood on hawk's nose when Arthur first changed the landscape using chaos near the end of NNT?..I think it might be his personal familiar now
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I will talk about King (or any Fairy King overall) since I remember his powers more or less:

- Alteration: Based on Status Promotion, Condense Power, Fossilitation which turns everything into stone, and what Merlin explained about Disaster.

- Restoration: Hello? Pollen Garden? Moon Rose? I know it's the common magic of Goddesses but King and Glox both proved they can heal too. So this shouldn't be missing.

- Mental: We see King erased Diane's memories of him on his Gaiden with a daisy; and in Cursed by Light
King confirms that a Fairy King can hypnotize people. Dahlia did it with the fairies and giants and King later cancelled that spell with his powers as FK.

- Deception (?): This is the one that confuses me the most. Because if we consider changing your appearance as deception, then King fits this one too. After all, King fooled everyone during a decade with his Human form and Helbram fooled us as the referee of the first Vaizel fight festival and later with his human form too.

The thing is... it's supposed only Percival can have 4 or more. So... Nakaba has to re-connect King's abilities, or we should just assume that the Fairy King, as a creation made by one of the 3 Gods to rule the entire fairy clan, is a special magical being.
Not a Hero, just something different.
I feel like we can put pollen garden and moon rose under alteration?..kings disaster mainly changes his chastiefol into parts of sacred tree..in the end.. with added destruction in 1st form....I think destruction and alteration is enough..and with memories..i haven't seen the movie..so I'm just mentioning from manga..he only removes memories right....more like blocks it cause its not fully erased..I wouldn't say it should fall under memory manipulation like gowther could.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Hopefully he gives more insight into where other stuff like Goddess or Demon magic sits in regards to these 9 types.

Also the whole "only Percival is hero type" doesn't make sense when entities like the Gods and Chaos seem to have almost all 9 types of magic.

Is it really just one person at a time or more of a "It's extremely rare, like 0.1% at a time" type deal?
Maybe everyone...is in regards to their own clan?..like one hero among each clan..that would make sense I guess for sins and all having them since they are top warriors of whatever they are...
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Lol...nakaba giving us 9 sentences of content for us to discuss non stop which was the problem I think pointed out in this section
 

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he only removes memories right....more like blocks it cause its not fully erased..I wouldn't say it should fall under memory manipulation like gowther could.
Even if it's blocking memories, that's still you manipulating the memories of a person to make them forget a only certain person or event. The description of the magic type says: "to be able to manipulate a person's mind and their memories." And that's exactly what King did ("Please, live your life with no memory of me"- King's Gaiden) while he made her forget any kind of memory with him on it. It's very clear and simple, even Meliodas called him out when King was shouting out at Gowther for erasing Diane's memories because King knows he did the same in the past. It's still memory manipulation.


And also, I dont want to spoil you if you are trying to save the info of Cursed by Light, just expect that King will reveal more info about the skills of a Fairy King there.
 
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Bebo

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Even if it's blocking memories, that's still you manipulating the memories of a person to make them forget a only certain person or event. The description of the magic type says: "to be able to manipulate a person's mind and their memories." And that's exactly what King did ("Please, live your life with no memory of me"- King's Gaiden) while he made her forget any kind of memory with him on it. It's very clear and simple, even Meliodas called him out when King was shouting out at Gowther for erasing Diane's memories because King knows he did the same in the past. It's still memory manipulation.


And also, I dont want to spoil you if you are trying to save the info of Cursed by Light, just expect that King will reveal more info about the skills of a Fairy King there.
What does the translation say? Is there a translated novel somewhere?
 

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The novel is not fully translated anywhere. But someone uploaded a video with a big summary of the novel in spanish. Anyway the movie will be here on 2 weeks, I think it’s worthy to just wait for it.

On previous pages King says “It seems to be a strong hypnotic power that is being applied to them. And it's a power I know all about.”
And on that page I posted King says: “The hypnotism used on them is a skill of the Fairy King.”
(Point out that King also says previously that he never met Dahia before and that he doesn’t know anything about him).
 
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