Discussion Mokushiroku no Yonkishi by Suzuki Nakaba

Do you think Sin is really 3000 years old?

  • Yes.

  • No.


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Vortigern

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Looks like I missed out on a lot of interesting discussion in the past few days.

I’m 89% sure that Percivals magic is some form of soul control.
That’s how his title connects to his powers.
I'm sticking to the life force idea I had all the way back when his magic was first used. Would be ironic if Death's magic was called Life.

Oh, and also I reread Lancelots one-shot, and I’m pretty sure that he and Jericho are in Camelot.
The problem was that humans (and only humans!) started disappearing and I think if everyone thought that Camelot was no more, no one even thought that people may be there (especially considering that Camelot is somewhere in other realm or in magical hiding) And the Lady of the Lake have a strong connection to the Camelot, so that makes sense.
While I agree that Lancelot was likely taken away by the Lady of the Lake given what Varghese said about her in chapter 1, I doubt Lancelot is in Camelot right now. Camelot is the HQ of Arthur's knights who are currently trying to track down and execute the FKOA including Lancelot, so him being there now would be pretty weird. Lancelot's kidnapping happened 6 years ago, so he very well could have visited Camelot at some point or even lived there until the prophecy was made a few days ago, but he would have had to run away at that point. Personally I prefer the idea that Lancelot was raised by the Lady of the Lake in secret. If there is an important knight that was raised in Camelot it would probably be either Gawain or Mordred. I think Lancelot should have a different backstory and it would also explain why he's apparently called the Knight of the Lake. It was also said that Ban and Elaine kept looking for Lancelot, so it would have been a pretty asshole move for Merlin, Arthur and even Jericho to not contact them and mention that Lancelot is alright.

Still super curious what Ironside magic is? I'm assuming some kind of holy magic, though I could just be reading into the cross shape more then I should. But it does remind me of the goddesses magic...
I initially thought it was some kind of wind cutter magic especially after the move that he used to kill Varghese, but now it looks like light magic since there are sparks coming off from the spell. The crosses do seem similar to the visual effects of Ark and also to some of Ludociel's attacks (which the Wikia lists as Ark spells, but what I think are actually Ludociel's Flash attacks. Some of the them literally have Flash in the attack name and it would be weird if he never used a single named spell related to his magic.)

Ironside seems to have a personal, deep-rooted grudge against the Kingdom of Liones


And I can't think of someone else other than Deathpierce having the same mindset
There's a timeline issue with Deathpierce being Ironside. Deathpierce left Liones in the 2nd the last chapter of NNT, when Elizabeth and Elaine were in the last stages of their pregnancies. Tristan and Lancelot are 16 years old now, the same age as Percival, so Percival's mother should have already been pregnant with him by the time Deathpierce left Liones. The betrayal that Varghese and Ironside accused each other of also happened 16 years ago, but at that point Deathpierce had not left Liones yet and wouldn't have been one of Arthur's knights. Furthermore, Deathpierce specifically wanted to rebuild his home kingdom of Edinburgh, so I don't think he would have joined another kingdom.

That said, I do think that Deathpierce is somehow connected to all of this stuff that's going on with Arthur's knights. I think the other remaining Pleiades probably joined him, which could be important because Deldry's power to make people fall in love with her could potentially be used to control key people in Camelot. I don't see her being able to control Arthur or Merlin though, so there's probably something different going on with them. You aren't necessarily wrong about the connection between Ironside and Deathpierce either, because their names are somewhat similar. Most characters in the series have names that don't really mean anything, so names that are just two nouns combined together stand out a bit. Ironside's name is at least taken from an actual character in the Arthurian legends, but Deathpierce is a pretty random name for a character to have. I don't think they are the same person, but they could be brothers or cousins or something.

To focus our guessing game, I remind you that Donny is ginger (according to this cover)
Nakaba's hair colors are all over the place so I doubt they're going to be very useful. Mel and Zel are brothers and have blonde and black hair respectively. Dreyfus is Zaratras' half brother and has brown hair while Zaratras has grey hair, and then Gilthunder who is Zaratras' son and Dreyfus' half-nephew has pink hair.
 

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I initially thought it was some kind of wind cutter magic especially after the move that he used to kill Varghese, but now it looks like light magic since there are sparks coming off from the spell. The crosses do seem similar to the visual effects of Ark and also to some of Ludociel's attacks (which the Wikia lists as Ark spells, but what I think are actually Ludociel's Flash attacks. Some of the them literally have Flash in the attack name and it would be weird if he never used a single named spell related to his magic.)
There's also that phantom boat he had in the first chapter, which while not confirmed as created by his magic, has a similar look to how the ark and prison techniques also appear. It would be an interesting twist, if Ironside has some connection to the goddesses or druids. Could also explain the variation of Percival's magic.

I'm guessing Ludociel's attacks are listed as such due to his Grace being stated as just superspeed. The other Graces seem to make their attacks out of their literal element, though I suppose speed can't really be visualize like that.
 

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If Arthur has mastered the power of Chaos then it isn't out of the realm of possibility for him to bestow powers upon others. Even on humans, he could probably give them goddess or demonic abilities.

Ironside's goddess-looking like powers could be from Arthur.
 
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Samael Morningstar

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Ironside's power is Goddess-looking? How?
 

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If Arthur has mastered the power of Chaos then it isn't out of the realm of possibility for him to bestow powers upon others. Even on humans, he could probably give them goddess or demonic abilities.

Ironside's goddess-looking like powers could be from Arthur.
That scene where Ironside made Anne stop moving reminds me of the fight between Arthur and Cusack and Co. when they showed their aura and you could see their Indura form behind them or in season 1 when grey demon Hendrickson was about to attack Gilthunder but he was too afraid and couldn't move. Imo his ability looks more like demonic?
 

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That scene where Ironside made Anne stop moving reminds me of the fight between Arthur and Cusack and Co. when they showed their aura and you could see their Indura form behind them or in season 1 when grey demon Hendrickson was about to attack Gilthunder but he was too afraid and couldn't move. Imo his ability looks more like demonic?
That's rather common in battle shonen. He did the same in a previous chapter and only Percival was able to move.
 

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I just don't know how Arthur isn't aware what his knights are doing when he can probably sense everything on the island via his Chaos powers. Maybe he's in his own dimension?
 

Vortigern

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I'm guessing Ludociel's attacks are listed as such due to his Grace being stated as just superspeed. The other Graces seem to make their attacks out of their literal element, though I suppose speed can't really be visualize like that.
I don't remember Flash ever being confirmed to be just about superspeed. The wiki claims that is the case, but the citations they have don't actually refer to chapters where anything like that was stated, only to instances of Lucodiel moving really fast. I always assumed Flash was about the control of light because all the other Graces were elemental magic. If Ocean's control of water allows the user to somehow liquify their own body, then it stands to reason that Flash's control of light could enable the user to briefly move their body at the speed of light, which makes it look like he's teleporting. I think my interpretation is strongly supported by chapter 286 where Ludociel boasts about the might of his Flash while using a kind of star shaped attack similar to Ironside's magic. The wiki states that this was actually an Ark attack combined with Flash, but this doesn't seem to be based on anything. I guess you could argue that the sparkles that manifest together with the attack are similar to the sparkles you see with Ark, but Ludociel also used another spell in chapter 288 which just produced a very bright light with no sparkles or anything else. Flash being light magic seems to explain every detail of Ludociel's abilities and fits the overall theme of the Graces.

I'm tempted to bring this argument forth on the wiki to see if they would reconsider some of their claims but I'm too lazy to make an account to address something that's not really all that important. I'd wager some wiki users probably browse these forums anyway so if I'm lucky someone particularly dedicated might do my work for me at some point.

There's also that phantom boat he had in the first chapter, which while not confirmed as created by his magic, has a similar look to how the ark and prison techniques also appear. It would be an interesting twist, if Ironside has some connection to the goddesses or druids. Could also explain the variation of Percival's magic.
The boat does look like it could be related to the goddesses, although I'm not really sure why they would need a flying boat if they can already fly. Even the figurehead or whatever you call the thing at the front kind of looks like a dragon, which were portrayed in the gate to the goddess realm seen in the holy war flashback. Nakaba might have abandoned the goddess-dragon connection later on though since apparently Chaos has some sort of a connection to dragons or at least to one really prominent dragon. I could definitely see Ironside having some kind of involvement with the goddesses, but I don't think he's actually a goddess himself since Percival is apparently a human rather than some sort of a hybrid. Bringing back the druids would be neat, but it might create some overlap between Ironside and Hendy as antagonists. We have already seen instances of goddesses possessing humans before so that could always be a thing as well.

Now that I think about it, this idea that Ironside is working for the goddesses would actually be a very fitting plot twist. He's trying to seal the demons away just like what the goddesses already did in the past, but instead of sacrificing goddesses to do it he's using humans. Or maybe activating the CoED would actually help the goddesses get their bodies back somehow since that's what originally cost them their bodies in the first place. The whole thing with Ironside and the rest of Arthur's knights pushing human supremacy could be an attempt to make the other clans hate humans. This is very similar to what the goddesses did in the Holy War where they managed to convince all the other clans to ally against the demons. The demon clan was the strongest so the goddesses tried to use all the other clans to defeat them and now that humans are in charge the goddesses are trying to do the same thing to them. Perhaps this was the SD's master plan all along; manipulate the other clans to take each other out one by one until hers is the only one remaining. If she survives the movie then I'd say this is definitely a possibility. I'm not sure if people would like the parallels though. NNT's first arc was about a demon manipulating a kingdom of holy knights and the first arc of the sequel would be about the goddesses manipulating a kingdom of holy knights. I'm sure many people would call it repetitive no matter how well it was executed.
 

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What if someone manipulated everyone believing that the 4 knights would be 4 kids, but actually Ironside and the other knights are them? Just like Fraudrin did it with Hendy and Dreyfus in the first season with the 7DS and that certain person uses Ironside just like Fraudrin uses Hendy to open the Coffin?
 

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White crosses is how the attacks of the goddesses were normally shown, as shown with the majority of Ark techniques.
In Ironside's case it isn't enough to say it's anyway goddess related, unless we're confirmed later
 

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I don't remember Flash ever being confirmed to be just about superspeed. The wiki claims that is the case, but the citations they have don't actually refer to chapters where anything like that was stated,
i definetly don''t think flash is all speed....we've seen his other attacks which are variants made from his grace like gold shining . sparkling drive etc..it's more of a light natured ..so his speed is just another aspect of light.....which is anther thing SD is shown with ...tar and sar also have used different techniques based on their ocean grace..like making his body of water or a defense of whirlwind and deadly moves as well..

and boy u like to write a lot of stuff huh each time 👍
 

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What if someone manipulated everyone believing that the 4 knights would be 4 kids, but actually Ironside and the other knights are them? Just like Fraudrin did it with Hendy and Dreyfus in the first season with the 7DS and that certain person uses Ironside just like Fraudrin uses Hendy to open the Coffin?
someone manipulated ?...well i guess nakaba is doing it then since he already gave us a spread of 4KnoA with percy in it .lol
 

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someone manipulated ?...well i guess nakaba is doing it then since he already gave us a spread of 4KnoA with percy in it .lol
You know what I mean. In the first season we thought Hendy is the evil one but later we've learned the truth. That little Jester dude is a bit strange, It's like he looks weak and harmless but has something in his sleeves lol just like love helm (Helbram)

Btw I have to admit it's a lot of fun to talk with you guys about the nanatsu world ♡
 

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I don't remember Flash ever being confirmed to be just about superspeed. The wiki claims that is the case, but the citations they have don't actually refer to chapters where anything like that was stated, only to instances of Lucodiel moving really fast. I always assumed Flash was about the control of light because all the other Graces were elemental magic. If Ocean's control of water allows the user to somehow liquify their own body, then it stands to reason that Flash's control of light could enable the user to briefly move their body at the speed of light, which makes it look like he's teleporting. I think my interpretation is strongly supported by chapter 286 where Ludociel boasts about the might of his Flash while using a kind of star shaped attack similar to Ironside's magic. The wiki states that this was actually an Ark attack combined with Flash, but this doesn't seem to be based on anything. I guess you could argue that the sparkles that manifest together with the attack are similar to the sparkles you see with Ark, but Ludociel also used another spell in chapter 288 which just produced a very bright light with no sparkles or anything else. Flash being light magic seems to explain every detail of Ludociel's abilities and fits the overall theme of the Graces.

I'm tempted to bring this argument forth on the wiki to see if they would reconsider some of their claims but I'm too lazy to make an account to address something that's not really all that important. I'd wager some wiki users probably browse these forums anyway so if I'm lucky someone particularly dedicated might do my work for me at some point.
I wasn't basing it off of the wiki, just my own reading. Alot of Lucodiel's actions are tried with speed, thus my conclusion. It's true nothing as such was ever stated, so I could be wrong in that regard. Perhaps it's due to the idea that sunlight and light seem redundant, but your point stands.

The boat does look like it could be related to the goddesses, although I'm not really sure why they would need a flying boat if they can already fly. Even the figurehead or whatever you call the thing at the front kind of looks like a dragon, which were portrayed in the gate to the goddess realm seen in the holy war flashback. Nakaba might have abandoned the goddess-dragon connection later on though since apparently Chaos has some sort of a connection to dragons or at least to one really prominent dragon. I could definitely see Ironside having some kind of involvement with the goddesses, but I don't think he's actually a goddess himself since Percival is apparently a human rather than some sort of a hybrid. Bringing back the druids would be neat, but it might create some overlap between Ironside and Hendy as antagonists. We have already seen instances of goddesses possessing humans before so that could always be a thing as well.

Now that I think about it, this idea that Ironside is working for the goddesses would actually be a very fitting plot twist. He's trying to seal the demons away just like what the goddesses already did in the past, but instead of sacrificing goddesses to do it he's using humans. Or maybe activating the CoED would actually help the goddesses get their bodies back somehow since that's what originally cost them their bodies in the first place. The whole thing with Ironside and the rest of Arthur's knights pushing human supremacy could be an attempt to make the other clans hate humans. This is very similar to what the goddesses did in the Holy War where they managed to convince all the other clans to ally against the demons. The demon clan was the strongest so the goddesses tried to use all the other clans to defeat them and now that humans are in charge the goddesses are trying to do the same thing to them. Perhaps this was the SD's master plan all along; manipulate the other clans to take each other out one by one until hers is the only one remaining. If she survives the movie then I'd say this is definitely a possibility. I'm not sure if people would like the parallels though. NNT's first arc was about a demon manipulating a kingdom of holy knights and the first arc of the sequel would be about the goddesses manipulating a kingdom of holy knights. I'm sure many people would call it repetitive no matter how well it was executed.
I assume it was more that Ironside himself was the one to make the boat via his magic, since he can't fly. I agree that Ironside is likely not a goddess himself, but has some connection with them. Would explain his usage of the Coffin. I don't think there will be any overlap, because Hendrickson really didn't use any of his druid/goddess abilities while he was a villain, at least outside of reviving people I believe.

That would be a cool twist, and the way to bring us more information about the goddesses. We already know they aren't exactly against killing the innocent or sacrificing their pawns. It would also explain the likes of Mael missing, and the antagonize towards Liones. The only issue is how this would connect to Arthur and Camelot, though I suppose they could in turn be being used by Chaos.

In Ironside's case it isn't enough to say it's anyway goddess related, unless we're confirmed later
It's a theory based on the fact that so far we haven't seen such connected to anyone but the goddesses. Add in the fact that Ironside's magic remains unnamed while his fellow knights had their magic imminently revealed with their introductions, would suggest there's something up with it then it just being his magic.

Actually, the triskelion was the symbol the goddesses used more than the crosses.
Meant when they fought or use their techniques.
 

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Flash seems to be related to speed + light-based attack with a Triskelion in it.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Question: "Ark" of goddesses destroys only the physical body and darkness, or can destroy even the soul?"

Answer: Depends on who uses it. Weak goddesses will destroy only the body, while the strong ones can also destroy the soul.

So basically top tier Goddesses like the Four Archangels and Elizabeth, obviously the SD can destroy both the body and the soul if they wanted with their Ark, damn.
 

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Flash seems to be related to speed + light-based attack with a Triskelion in it.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Question: "Ark" of goddesses destroys only the physical body and darkness, or can destroy even the soul?"

Answer: Depends on who uses it. Weak goddesses will destroy only the body, while the strong ones can also destroy the soul.

So basically top tier Goddesses like the Four Archangels and Elizabeth, obviously the SD can destroy both the body and the soul if they wanted with their Ark, damn.
Where is this QnA from?
 
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