kkck

Waifu Slayer
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
31,399
Likes
12,075
Gender
Hidden
Country
Fire Nation
So.... was there a point to ban looking exactly like rou? Rou has died just about twice by now and is due a reincarnation but so far as I can tell there has been no payoff for that bit.
 

Rikudou King

MH Senpai
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
8,911
Likes
2,938
Gender
Male
Country
United States
of course it was stated she was blessed of course, and they explained what the blessing was which was the immunity for commandment curses. Yeah so are we comparing SD to ludo now? ludo cannot grant someone being immune to commandments that out of his league. Isn't the initial premise about how grace was BLESSING coming from SD? why do u think that mael was affected by darkness and the grace automatically left his body. It would be your burden of proof to prove that goddesses gets a blessing from SD, yes grace are a blessing from SD.
Exactly, so if we know the Supreme Deity specifically has a blessing to protect against curses, a blessing that doesn't appear to be under her control once given, why are you assuming that her only blessing is the Graces and they have anything to do with protecting against curses when nothing of the sort has ever been mentioned in the series regarding them. I brought up Ludociel as proof that there are multiple type of blessings shown, since it stands to reason anything he can do, the Supreme Deity can do also. As I said before, A blessing is far different from THE blessing - No one is denying that the Graces are a blessing, the issue here is you claiming they are the only blessing the Archangels were given. Neither the idea that the Archangels were only given a single type of blessing, or that the Graces have any additional abilities beyond what has been stated has been shown, so the burden here is on you to prove that claim. My claim, that the curse protection is separate from the Graces is easily proven by Merlin...

huh how does that prove it being a physical object? Zeldris states what the commandment do after the user dies, and it doesn't prove anything to be a physical object. Black orb represents physical object? people in taizai CAN TOUCH souls literally souls and does that mean souls are physical objects? you're going with logical reality perspective when fiction allows people to touch something which us people who read cannot touch. Not only that IT WAS cleared HOW you can remove the commandment via incantation so yes it doesn't change anything.
If the characters are physically holding and interacting with them, then they are physical objects. As fdor souls, yeah, they are also p0hysical obejcts in this series... Early on we saw souls physically touching the living and interacting via those two dead children... What us the readers can do have nothing to do with what is true within the manga's reality. And yeah, if they have to literally go where the commandment is to get it back, that shows it's not something metaphysical.
 

Ger

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2018
Messages
1,329
Likes
653
Age
18
Country
Canada
Exactly, so if we know the Supreme Deity specifically has a blessing to protect against curses, a blessing that doesn't appear to be under her control once given, why are you assuming that her only blessing is the Graces and they have anything to do with protecting against curses when nothing of the sort has ever been mentioned in the series regarding them. I brought up Ludociel as proof that there are multiple type of blessings shown, since it stands to reason anything he can do, the Supreme Deity can do also. As I said before, A blessing is far different from THE blessing - No one is denying that the Graces are a blessing, the issue here is you claiming they are the only blessing the Archangels were given. Neither the idea that the Archangels were only given a single type of blessing, or that the Graces have any additional abilities beyond what has been stated has been shown, so the burden here is on you to prove that claim. My claim, that the curse protection is separate from the Graces is easily proven by Merlin...
i never said her blessings are only the graces.... I don't know why you keep misinterpreting my point.

again no goddesses without grace or implication of getting a blessing makes them invulnerable to commandments i.e mael.
If the characters are physically holding and interacting with them, then they are physical objects. As fdor souls, yeah, they are also p0hysical obejcts in this series... Early on we saw souls physically touching the living and interacting via those two dead children... What us the readers can do have nothing to do with what is true within the manga's reality. And yeah, if they have to literally go where the commandment is to get it back, that shows it's not something metaphysical.
uh.... You do realize ban can touch meliodas in purgatory DESPITE only being an emotion right? You're appealing to sense of reality in our world which fiction intends to bend. most characters in taizai can touch a soul THAT is completely intangible in our point of view unlless u dont believe in spirits.
So it is a slippery slope to call them physical objects in the first place when character are shown to touch intangible beings and such, so this is pretty moot point to refute that commandments are not physical in nature.
 

Rikudou King

MH Senpai
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
8,911
Likes
2,938
Gender
Male
Country
United States
i never said her blessings are only the graces.... I don't know why you keep misinterpreting my point.

again no goddesses without grace or implication of getting a blessing makes them invulnerable to commandments i.e mael.
You literally said that you couldn't get a blessing from the Supreme Deity unless you have a Grace, which is completely false as shown by Merlin. You then disagreed with me and said it was my burden to prove the goddesses get a blessing from her... which is just ridiculous. My entire point has been that nothing we've seen implies Mael lost any of his other blessings when he lost his Grace, which was a specific situation, and the example of Merlin shows that the commandment protection blessing would stay with him regardless what side he was on.

uh.... You do realize ban can touch meliodas in purgatory DESPITE only being an emotion right? You're appealing to sense of reality in our world which fiction intends to bend. most characters in taizai can touch a soul THAT is completely intangible in our point of view unlless u dont believe in spirits.
So it is a slippery slope to call them physical objects in the first place when character are shown to touch intangible beings and such, so this is pretty moot point to refute that commandments are not physical in nature.
Not sure how that disproves my point? Emotion Meliodas was shown a physical being, interacting with the world the same as everyone else. And what are you talking about? The rules of "our world" have nothing to do with what is true of a fictional story... Yeah, in the real world, ghost aren't real, but we're not talking about ghost in the real world, we're talking about fictional things in a fictional universe. There isn't any reason to try to apply real world logic to the verisimilitude of this story, cause by that logic none of the characters are physical...
 

Rikudou King

MH Senpai
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
8,911
Likes
2,938
Gender
Male
Country
United States
right and i put more context what i said and it seems you clearly missed the whole context, which i was aware what i was saying. Mael was never received BLESSING from SD exception of his grace, that is your burden of proof to prove it. Merlin on the other hand was stated to have a blessing, so theres a difference between them.
No you really didn't. That would make no logical since, why would the Supreme Deity not give her soldiers protection against the enemies that they were fighting. Without any protection, they would be massacred by the Commandments... And no, we were told specifically their immunity to curses were thanks to her Divine Blessing. If it was due to the Graces, that would have been stated, but the Graces have never been referred to as "Divine Blessing", and in fact later in the chapter the Graces are reference directly.

even tho emotions ARE not physical beings? there was no statement or implications emo mel turned into physical being, even though that is again your burden of proof. Meliodas also stated that his emotions is basically his soul, so nothing of your refutation has no correlation to any of the evidence that has been shown so far in the series. Fictional BEINGS can touch souls who are intangible by default, but you say commandments ARE touchable because characters touched it. That's called a false equivalence, commandments went THROUGH the cocoon but you CANT have a physical object going through a physical wall unless you're like flash where you disassemble your atoms to the point you go through it. THATS literally the whole point, which you're implying that characters can touch therefore they are physical things even though i already debunked that notion. Can ghost be touch? answer that then were good to go with this argument either way, if you answer it yes or no it literally debunks your whole point.
Again, you're trying to use real world logic here... They can't be intangable if they can be touched, by the very definition of the word. We outright saw Emotion Meliodas interact not only with other people, but the environment too, the same with the other souls and such. We saw him injured and bleeding. Nothing has been shown to suggest that the souls of the Nanatsuverse are intangible "by default". If anything, we were shown differently with the early Capital of the Dead arc and with Monspeet, who showed that souls have a mass via his technique. Again, it's your burden to prove otherwise. Show when a soul was shown intangible.

Perhaps you should reread that chapter. The commandments burst through the cocoon, literally causing an explosion. They didn't phase or slide through, which would of been the case if they were intangible. Not only that, but Merascylla's commandment broke out of the tube she was in, again not phasing or sliding out.
 

Rikudou King

MH Senpai
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
8,911
Likes
2,938
Gender
Male
Country
United States
yeah but theres no statement regarding goddess gets blessing from SD unless they are specifically given a grace OR blessing itself. Which 4AAs were the only ones that can fight the commandments so no goddesses aside from them could fgo agaisnt commandments. Grace are literally divine blessing that came from SD herself, so this isl iterally a common sense for all of us.
The other goddesses were involved in the fighting too, and we saw they had just as much of a chance of running into the Commandments, so not giving them protection makes no sense. He states, "The Divine Protection", a name not a reference. The Graces are a blessing, but nowhere were they ever named as Divine Protection. Even when Ludociel was explaining about them, he never gave them any name other then Graces. And he says "like them", but that would make no sense if the reference was about the Graces since the Archangels are the only ones with the Graces and there wouldn't be anyone else like them. Nor would his comment later about the Graces being unimpressive make sense, if they had these additional powers.

oh my god... The whole point is this CHARACTER are not normal humans, they are superhumans capable of touching souls and im not even implyinga real world logic here, you're the one who's implying that it would the case. Souls in fictional world can be injured if the physical object CAN TOUCH the souls themselves, there's been many cases of this in many shounens not just NNT. Soul IS ALWAYS intangible why do you think someone's soul in NNT gets extracted through the body instead of physically coming out of their body?? this is literally a common sense, you're appealing too much to where Souls can be touched in fictional world when IM referring to the character that has superhuman capability of doing so. Commandments never caused an explosion so nice try to reverse the burden of proof on me, actually that was melascula WHO broke the tube not the commandments. Hence the word called "resonating" coming from merlin says so.

Are you fully aware that souls CAN be touched NOT BY ALL people but characters themselves, because characters in taizai TOUCHED them because they are capable of manipulating souls especially Demon clan and goddess. So its literally your fallacious logic to come at me saying souls are physical objects you haven't shown it would be. Souls can be touch by the character WHO can touch souls themselves. Souls themselves are astral not physical manifestation. If they aren't astral then you wouldn't be seeing souls coming out of someones body THROUGH not physically opening their body to get out. So its logical fallacy in this case.
You are the one implying real world logic by claiming that souls are by default intangible, when the series has never shown that, and then arguing it's "common sense" and the case in other series. We have never seen a soul or ghost do anything connected with intangibility, like float through something - even when they're extracted, they come out of the mouth. The fact that they have to come out of an opening shows an example of them being physical. And we see more then just the demons and goddesses touching souls, which is the point. I literally brought up that we have examples of souls interacting with the environment itself, something that wouldn't happen with an intangible object. Again, we literally had a human character kill herself and go to the land of the dead, where she ended up getting bloody and nearly being killed... as a soul...

I literally gave you the link of the commandments creating the explosion as they entered the cocoon, so what are you talking about? And what? Merlin literally says it's the commandment doing the resonating. How could it be Merascylla resonating with the commandments when the entire point of her capture was that she was powerless?
 

Rikudou King

MH Senpai
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
8,911
Likes
2,938
Gender
Male
Country
United States
alright when did they get a blessing from? i dont recall SD giving any goddess blessings. So that's burden of proof on your part. Of course grace are blessings due to the fact they CAME FROM SD herself, unless you have any refutation. I won't reiterate what i said.
Probably at the beginning of the war. Moot point, given we lack the same knowledge about the Graces as well. I have supplied my proof, a character literally stating that the immunity from curses is from Divine Protection, from the manga itself. You are the one who has yet to provide any proof from the manga of your claim.

Because they are intangible??? i literally stated earlier that these characters can touch the soul because they had the ability to. Holy knights cant touch no soul nor shown to have but the sins could due to their nature. Okay so ghost not being intangible but yet it can go through many objects, and look how the souls melascula manipulated WENT through a physical objects body. That literally debunks your argument, you keep this retort where you can't back your claim. Ghost are intangible within the series itself but the fact that they ARE intangible is due to the nature of the characters touching them. Tarmiel is actually intangible where he cannot be touched if he uses his grace but yet estarossa after shrouding him with darkness did. This is the same thing fro bleach, bleach usually runs with souls BUT YET they run through many physical objects and then we have showing having blood on his face despite being stated to be a ghost that is no longer a physical being from the human world. ghost are intangible where humans cannot touch them, no human character was injured in capital of the dead unless you're talking about guila going there.
First off, by the very definition of the word, if something or someone can touch it, it wouldn't be intangible. That aside, you're wrong. We saw both Guila and Ban interact with souls, and they are both humans. So that right there disproves your claim. And no, we don't see how the commandment came out, only that it was out. The fact that it had to break the tube to escape shows that it was tangible, else it would have just flowed out. Not to mention story-wise, that would make no sense. Merlin's whole goal was to keep it from the others, and she's knowledgeable about the commandments. So why would she place it in a tube unless she believed that would keep it locked away.

Bleach had a whole different set of rules, so that doesn't prove anything. In Bleach, souls are also invisible and connected to the body with a chain, which is not the case in the Nanatsuverse. I literally mentioned Guila when pointing that out.

how is that an explosion?? what part DID the commadments destroy?? all they did was went through and nothing damaged the cocoon. That's literally your blind visual interpretation of the scene.
Melascula WAS being pulled out along with her commandment, so NO commandment GOT out of the tube and merlin literally stated melascula is going out on her own. So this notion of panel supports NONE of your arguments. So again if you have any provision on what SOUL IS THEN YOU CANT SIMPLY argue your headcanon here and say ghost are intangible anywhere. Heck merlin implied that EVEN if ban is immortal physially his soul isn't. That shows the difference between physical body and an astral body. Heck it was completely explained how the environment DESTROYS the physical body of a person but yet DOESNT destroy their souls but rather the souls or purgatory monsters would eat it. It clearly shows the difference between physical body and astral body. In conclusion those monsters CAN touch souls which are intangible.
"A violent expansion of energy outward in a shockwave"... It's the very definition of an explosion.

If it was as you claim, then there would have been nothing to disturb the surface of the cocoon. The very fact that there was an interaction proves otherwise. There's no "blind interpretation", it clearly shows the commandments colliding with the cocoon and causing an explosion, accompany by said sound effect.



Incorrect. Merlin at first thinks it's Merasyclla's doing, but then she corrects herself and says it's the commandment. Merasyclla isn't being pulled anywhere, the commandment broke the tube and she's just there because she was in it too. The commandment is the one doing the moving and flying off.

I've provided proof to back up my claims, whereas you have yet to show any evidence from the manga to support your own. The situation with ban doesn't disprove anything, since no one was claiming that there wasn't a difference. In fact, it's even more proof of my argument, since I brought up how Emotion Meliodas, basically Meliodas' soul, was physically being wounded and threaten with death. You keep trying to claim certain things can touch souls despite them being intangible, without providing the evidence that they are intangible in the first place. This is the entire point, your entire argument has been about something you think is a fact that you haven't actually proven is true. Simply showing a soul being intangable in the series would prove your claim, yet you continue to not do so, while I have provided proof from the manga itself to support my claims.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top