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In which group do you come in
Hangout Mokushiroku no Yonkishi Hangout Thread
- Thread starter k-dom
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My views are mixed,i am a bit completionist and have a bit of soft side for NNT because it gave lot of enjoyment at one point of time.But though probably wouldn't have brought the volumes at this stage.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
July 1st ~ July 7th (Credit to Kaizou_10 / Negative Syndicate)
01. One Piece #93 (1,378,777)
02. One Punch-man #20 (271,354)
03. Kimetsu no Yaiba #16 (225,102)
04. Black Clover #21 (120,146)
05. Jujutsu Kaisen #6 (98,500)
06. Karakai Jouzu no Takagi-san #11 (84,483)
07. Grand Blue #13 (82,730)
08. Act-Age #7 (61,834)
09. Karakai Jouzu no (Moto) Takagi-san#6 (61,315)
10. Dr. Stone #11 (56,414)
11. Kimetsu no Yaiba Official Fanbook Kisatsu-tai Kenbunroku (51,963)
12. Sousei no Onmyouji #19 (49,686)
13. Blue Giant Supreme #8 (49,340)
14. Aoashi #17 (48,651 / 105,871)
15. Yuukoku no Moriarty #9 (46,562)
16. Omoi, Omoware, Furi, Furare #12 (44,342 / 150,983)
17. Fuuto Tantei #6 (41,091 / 90,813)
18. Spy×Family #1 (39,461)
19. Platinum End #11 (38,707)
20. Nanatsu no Taizai #37 (38,005 / 339,296)
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Ahh yes, Nakaba's "tank the sales" plan is working, soon the series will fall out of corporate milking range
And he can swim in yen the people who went out of their way to support his series with after he delivers a somewhat bad ending to said series
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So OPM got massive boost in sales
And guess NNT deserved that position
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July 8th ~ July 14th (Credit to Kaizou_10 / Negative Syndicate)
01. One Piece #93 (337,923 / 1,716,100)
02. Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken #12 (255,098 / 255,453)
03. One Punch-man #20 (127,980 / 399,334)
04. Chihayafuru #42 (79,425)
05. Grand Blue #13 (78,470 / 161,200)
06. Kimetsu no Yaiba #16 (77,321 / 302,423)
07. Uzaki-chan wa Asobitai! #3 (69,801 / 77,686)
08. Yowamushi Pedal #62 (60,758 / 62,647)
09. Fairy Tail 100 Years Quest #3 (59,920)
10. Fate/Grand Order -Epic of Remnant- Ashu Tokuiten III / Ashu Heikou Sekai Shizanketsu Gabutai Shimousanokuni Eirei Kengou Nanaban Shoubu #1 (59,402)
11. Ojisama to Neko #3 (54,418)
12. Black Clover #21 (53,451 / 173,597)
13. Beastars #14 (46,671 / 47,486)
14. Poh no Ichizoku Unicorn (44,049)
15. Karakai Jouzu no Takagi-san #11 (43,329 / 127,812)
16. Kumo Desuga, Nanika? #7 (42,757)
17. Gakuen Babysitters #19 (38,081 / 72,686)
18. Jujutsu Kaisen #6 (37,661 / 136,161)
19. 1-nichi Gaishutsu-roku Hanchou #6 (37,076 / 74,260)
20. Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Limited Edition #12 (35,911 / 36,251)
21. Darwin's Game #18 (35,911 / 36,334)
22. Fate/Grand Order -Epic of Remnant- Ashu Tokuiten EX Shinkai Dennou Rakudo SE.RA.PH #1 (31,002 / 33,867)
23. Baki-dou #3 (29,814 / 30,589)
24. Yama to Shokuyoku to Watashi #10 (29,165)
25. Koi to Uso #9 (29,137)
26. Tensei Shitama Shachiku Datta Ken #1 (29,063)
27. Act-Age #7 (28,057 / 89,891)
28. Karakai Jouzu no (Moto) Takagi-san #6 (26,447 / 87,762)
29. Kekkon Yubiwa Monogatari #8 (24,933)
30. Dr. Stone #11 (24,860 / 81,274)
31. Yozakura Quartet #24 (24,653)
32. Yuukoku no Moriarty #8 (23,936 / 70,498)
33. Mitsuyokon〜Tsukumogami no Yome Goryou〜 #8 (23,020)
34. Temple #1 (22,357 / 49,176)
35. Sousei no Onmyouji #19 (21,348 / 71,034)
36. Fate/Grand Order -Epic of Remnant- Ashu Tokuiten II Denshou Chitei Sekai Agartha Agartha no Onna #1 (21,076 / 23,096)
37. Fate/Grand Order -Turas Realta- #5 (21,014)
38. Mitsudan -Top Secret- Season 0 #8 (20,874 / 42,575)
39. Shouten no Mon #11 (20,854)
40. Hana Nochi Hare〜Hanada Next Season〜 #13 (19,837 / 53,438)
41. Caste Heaven #5 (19,756)
42. Rikei ga Koi ni Ochitanode Shoumei Shitemita。#6 (19,681)
43. Ishuzoku Reviewers #3 (19,474 / 21,597)
44. Seija Musou #4 (19,104)
45. Nanatsu no Taizai #37 (18,950 / 358,246)
01. One Piece #93 (337,923 / 1,716,100)
02. Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken #12 (255,098 / 255,453)
03. One Punch-man #20 (127,980 / 399,334)
04. Chihayafuru #42 (79,425)
05. Grand Blue #13 (78,470 / 161,200)
06. Kimetsu no Yaiba #16 (77,321 / 302,423)
07. Uzaki-chan wa Asobitai! #3 (69,801 / 77,686)
08. Yowamushi Pedal #62 (60,758 / 62,647)
09. Fairy Tail 100 Years Quest #3 (59,920)
10. Fate/Grand Order -Epic of Remnant- Ashu Tokuiten III / Ashu Heikou Sekai Shizanketsu Gabutai Shimousanokuni Eirei Kengou Nanaban Shoubu #1 (59,402)
11. Ojisama to Neko #3 (54,418)
12. Black Clover #21 (53,451 / 173,597)
13. Beastars #14 (46,671 / 47,486)
14. Poh no Ichizoku Unicorn (44,049)
15. Karakai Jouzu no Takagi-san #11 (43,329 / 127,812)
16. Kumo Desuga, Nanika? #7 (42,757)
17. Gakuen Babysitters #19 (38,081 / 72,686)
18. Jujutsu Kaisen #6 (37,661 / 136,161)
19. 1-nichi Gaishutsu-roku Hanchou #6 (37,076 / 74,260)
20. Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Limited Edition #12 (35,911 / 36,251)
21. Darwin's Game #18 (35,911 / 36,334)
22. Fate/Grand Order -Epic of Remnant- Ashu Tokuiten EX Shinkai Dennou Rakudo SE.RA.PH #1 (31,002 / 33,867)
23. Baki-dou #3 (29,814 / 30,589)
24. Yama to Shokuyoku to Watashi #10 (29,165)
25. Koi to Uso #9 (29,137)
26. Tensei Shitama Shachiku Datta Ken #1 (29,063)
27. Act-Age #7 (28,057 / 89,891)
28. Karakai Jouzu no (Moto) Takagi-san #6 (26,447 / 87,762)
29. Kekkon Yubiwa Monogatari #8 (24,933)
30. Dr. Stone #11 (24,860 / 81,274)
31. Yozakura Quartet #24 (24,653)
32. Yuukoku no Moriarty #8 (23,936 / 70,498)
33. Mitsuyokon〜Tsukumogami no Yome Goryou〜 #8 (23,020)
34. Temple #1 (22,357 / 49,176)
35. Sousei no Onmyouji #19 (21,348 / 71,034)
36. Fate/Grand Order -Epic of Remnant- Ashu Tokuiten II Denshou Chitei Sekai Agartha Agartha no Onna #1 (21,076 / 23,096)
37. Fate/Grand Order -Turas Realta- #5 (21,014)
38. Mitsudan -Top Secret- Season 0 #8 (20,874 / 42,575)
39. Shouten no Mon #11 (20,854)
40. Hana Nochi Hare〜Hanada Next Season〜 #13 (19,837 / 53,438)
41. Caste Heaven #5 (19,756)
42. Rikei ga Koi ni Ochitanode Shoumei Shitemita。#6 (19,681)
43. Ishuzoku Reviewers #3 (19,474 / 21,597)
44. Seija Musou #4 (19,104)
45. Nanatsu no Taizai #37 (18,950 / 358,246)
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Thank goodness than OPM is 3rd
I'm happy that people are not wasting their money of this piece of shit called NNT
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Well cumulative sales wise NNT is still 358,246.It is not a bad figure to be honest.
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Then why is it in rank 45
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Weekly sales wise.
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Made a NNT Conversion Age Chart. It's a chart featuring conversions between the Demon, Fairies and Human characters.
This is based on the info that the average Demon age is 1000, Fairies is 1000-1500, and Humans is, generally speaking, around 79.
This is based on the info that the average Demon age is 1000, Fairies is 1000-1500, and Humans is, generally speaking, around 79.
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Aside from him being a vampire, and thus weak against sunlight? There was no attack, that's the point. What Izraf thought was a spell was just Escanor making a poem. Izraf began burning simply from Escanor increasing in power. And there was clearly no way Escanor's power could have been that much greater, because morning had just arrived and he had only just begun growing in power. That doesn't make sense though. Being at a "comparable" level wouldn't mean they would feel nothing. More to the point, we're told Escanor doesn't have control over Sunshine like that. he can't hold back. That's why he had to move the fight with Escanor, and why he needs his sacred treasure. Also, Zeldoris' immunity to magic shouldn't help, because the Graces themselves aren't magic.
Cruel Sun is a specific technique, which I acknowledged as being the exception to Escanor's normal melee offense. But odds are Escanor wouldn't begin with that without specific knowledge, which was what I pointed out.
I suppose that was my error. Gowther didn't have a heart any of the times we saw him beheaded, so it has nothing to do with his survival.
Sure, but he would have to have something like that in the first place.
Using speed to dodge doesn't mean anything if if the attack is a homing one, which Gowther has. Anyway, my point was twofold - First that the idea that Escanor would have won that fight ignores that Escanor would have never had the chance if Gowther had seriously wanted to take him down instead of "showing him respect", since any attack other then Nightmare Teller would have been KO for Escanor. Secondly, the attack Escanor used would not have "killed" Gowther as discussed. Was it something like Cruel Sun, sure, but the attack Escanor used against the Commandments wasn't anything but blunt force, which Gowther could have survived. Worst case would have been a double KO, given how Gowther had already launched his attack beforehand.
What do you mean "how weak"? I don't understand why you're trying to compare a specific technique to Escanor simply growing in strength? The whole point of the Izraf fight was that Escanor didn't care enough to fight him. He was literally standing around making up a poem. If it had been some sort of attack or technique, it would have been given a name like all the other techniques in the series. We were specifically told that as Escanor grows in strength, so does the power of sunshine, and that Escanor has no control over it, thus the reason he needs his sacred treasure.
As for the issue of power levels, I don't really agree a higher one means the weaker one would be massively overwhelmed. Zeldoris had a much lower power level then Ludociel and Escanor, and thus Mael, but the difference between him and them never shown as a massive thing. He was still capable of fighting back. And Ban was weaker then the Commandments, but he was able to fight against them, and probably could have even won if he had remembered the past. Point is, skills and abilities are a bigger factor then power level.
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Starting off, before you answer anything else in this post, I want you to clearly state your opinion on how power levels work. How much superior in PL must a character be over another to crush them instantly and be able to vaporize them? We've seen this countless times with the many destruction feats in Nanatsu no Taizai, people can be totally obliterated without a trace. Every time Ban got rekt, every time fodder Holy Knights got rekt by Hendrickson or an Albion or Garan, every single battle between Commandments and fodder humans, etc. It's very clear that total destruction of the body is an easy feat. Even non magic users like Derierre are completely capable, as shown when she obliterated Nerobasta in one swipe of her darkness claw without leaving a trace. Chandler has totally destroyed Ban, Garan destroyed his upper half once, and of course, Meliodas leveled Danafor in one attack and incinerated everyone there with his darkness. "PL doesn't matter" is completely false. Even minor differences in PL like having 2x the power level of your opponent has been shown to make a huge difference, like with the Holy Knights vs Hendrickson, so the difference between Escanor and Gowther would be overwhelming.
Of course the Demons like Estarossa would feel something from the passive sunshine waves, but they just aren't strong enough to do any significant damage to him.
Escanor can control sunshine when he uses his techniques, he just can't turn off his constant radiant heat, or prevent himself from getting stronger over time. It's only at noon that he uncontrollably explodes with power and the Izraf fight was nowhere near noon. So clearly, the explosion move that killed Izraf was an intentional activation. Him saying 'Boom' just before using it confirms that, it wasn't an 'Oops, accidentally killed you' moment whatsoever.
Of course the Graces are magic. They exert magical power. Where in the world did you find any evidence indicating that they aren't magic? Sunshine is magic, Tornado is magic, Ocean is magic, so is Flash, although the strikes Ludociel delivers with its speed are physically based. But yes, they are all magical in nature, just like the commandments.
What? How would blunt force not kill him? If you hit something hard enough with a solar explosion like Escanor used on the commandments, the enemy will get blown up and destroyed. It didn't kill them because they were too powerful/durable, and Gowther is not due to his much lower PL. Not to mention that even if he survived he'd fall off the pillar to the ground, or whatever pieces of him are left would fall down.
As for the double KO idea you had, that depends, really. He was up in the air and aimed at the Commandments, but if he aimed straight down at Gowther, his projectile might destroy Gowther's. Would it end up hitting him anyways? Maybe, depends on the angle and how the projectile was specifically aimed. But it wouldn't make much of a difference for the end result, as Escanor's transformation would run out anyways right after he used that move, even if Gowther hadn't landed that mental attack.
Ban got totally fodderized by people with way higher pls than him. He once stole Garan's strength to temporarily keep up with him, but that's because Garan and Merascylla weren't taking him seriously, specifically because Garan let him land the strength-steal for free. If he instead fought a no-nonsense fighter like Derierre, he really wouldn't have stood much of a chance at all, and he'd never be able to steal her strength without getting combo'd to death the second he tried.
Here's a long list that shows that in the majority of the major fights, PL is a massive factor.
1:Escanor vs Estarossa:PL is what let Escanor win, although he arguably shouldn't have if Estarossa had made better use of Full Counter, since their gap in PLs wasn't massive.
2:Garan vs Sins:Everyone knows this one. Gowther only allowed them to survive because Garan went it alone and was fighting several people at once, against even 2 commandments that illusion strategy would be useless. Granted, it was a very good strategy, but the fact is they had no way to possibly kill or defeat Garan with PLs so much lower than his.
3:Meliodas vs Dolor and Gloxinia:Meliodas only wins because he's constantly incapacitating one or the other thanks to Escanor's earlier opening, and has a significantly higher PL than either of them individually.
4:Meliodas vs the 10 Commandments: Not much he can do against so many foes, even if he could be stronger than any one individually.
5:Meliodas vs Escanor:Escanor gets stomped until he uses The One, because Meliodas is 3x his PL up to that point.
6:Sins vs Merascylla:Nothing she can do against so many foes, many who are equal to her or greater.
7:Sins vs Chandler(First fight):King is the central fighter by far because he has the highest PL, far above all the others PLs.
I think that should be a good enough list for you to understand how central PLs are in this story. Obviously, strategy and tactics still matter, but they won't make someone 1/5th the enemy strength suddenly kill them.
Overall I've given you more than enough evidence of how Gowther is not unkillable. You don't seem to understand the most central point of PLs, which is really concerning. If you can't understand after the clear explanation I just gave you, then I'm just going to give up on trying to make you understand it, as it will at that point prove to be a waste of time. If you do end up agreeing with me on how important PLs are, then you don't have much choice but to agree that Escanor's attacks could definitely kill Gowther. I don't see why proving that Gowther would win that one random battle is so important to you, you seem to be getting unnaturally stubborn about this when it does little to prove your original argument that Escanor isn't story-breaking anyways. For example, if I wanted to prove that Escanor isn't story breaking, I would say that his power as The One in the cocoon fight was perfectly logical and sensible, and even in that form needed several attacks to win. He also got countered by True Night before he could kill Zeldris, and before he used The One, proved to be overall much less effective than Ludociel, which was consistent with his much lower PL in near-noon form compared to Ludociel's absurd 200K. Or I would say how Escanor vs AM Meliodas, barring the illogical-ness of him going noon-mode at a convenient time, was a generally logical fight, with Escanor getting rekt until he got to become The One.
Anyway, it seems like your focus has derailed from your original line of conversation with the person you were talking to earlier, and I just don't get why you are still this focused on the one incident with Gowther. Not that I really mind, but it seems like it's going nowhere. Even if you proved that Gowther would somehow magically survive that overpowered sunshine attack and then hop back on stage if hit with it, what does that really prove? That Gowther has magical superhuman durability far exceeding what his PL shows? That his non-biological nature surely makes him invincible against all threats? Ok, Gowther is invincible then, in your own unsupported view of how the series works. But that doesn't actually prove that Escanor is balanced in the story, even if he would somehow lose against a foe you claim is conveniently impervious to harm.
TLDR, if you don't want to read this textwall, just read the first line I posted and answer your general opinion on how power levels work and what it takes to destroy a physical body if you are far stronger than the person who uses said body. That's the main question I want you to answer.
I have no idea how you so easily misunderstood me again when I provided you an exact panel of the moment I was talking about and mentioned multiple times how I am talking about what killed Izraf, not what merely burned him. He was killed by the 'Boom' panel where Escanor emits an explosion and devastates the whole castle. Even the passive waves emitted when he's "The One" do not level whole buildings, it's clearly an active spell, albeit a relatively effortless one. He only composed a poem while he was roasting Izraf alive, not when he actually blew him to shreds.
Of course the Demons like Estarossa would feel something from the passive sunshine waves, but they just aren't strong enough to do any significant damage to him.
Escanor can control sunshine when he uses his techniques, he just can't turn off his constant radiant heat, or prevent himself from getting stronger over time. It's only at noon that he uncontrollably explodes with power and the Izraf fight was nowhere near noon. So clearly, the explosion move that killed Izraf was an intentional activation. Him saying 'Boom' just before using it confirms that, it wasn't an 'Oops, accidentally killed you' moment whatsoever.
Of course the Graces are magic. They exert magical power. Where in the world did you find any evidence indicating that they aren't magic? Sunshine is magic, Tornado is magic, Ocean is magic, so is Flash, although the strikes Ludociel delivers with its speed are physically based. But yes, they are all magical in nature, just like the commandments.
Physical attacks could cripple Gowther's body easily too. What's he going to do if he gets Divine Sword Escanor'd in half? And they could also kill him if he hit him hard enough.Rikudou King said:
Well, even he had a chest-based core which allowed him to survive even if his head got destroyed, it's not like that changes anything in making him immune to death. That means you could still kill him by blowing a big hole in his chest.Rikudou King said:
He does...It's called Cruel Sun, or Pride Flare, or his AOE sunshine emanation move.Rikudou King said:
I guess it's wrong for me to say Escanor would dodge an attack as that is not his style, even though he definitely could with that much of a PL advantage. But what does homing matter if Escanor is 5 times faster than Gowther and his projectile? Just speed blitz Gowther after evading the shot, before it can turn around and go for another hit attempt.Rikudou King said:
OK, sure, he could have one shot at the start, I agreed with that already, not sure what saying that proves. Anyone could have one shot Escanor, even a normal Holy Knight or Holy Knight apprentice if they wanted to instantly win, they would all speed blitz his night self.Rikudou King said:
What? How would blunt force not kill him? If you hit something hard enough with a solar explosion like Escanor used on the commandments, the enemy will get blown up and destroyed. It didn't kill them because they were too powerful/durable, and Gowther is not due to his much lower PL. Not to mention that even if he survived he'd fall off the pillar to the ground, or whatever pieces of him are left would fall down.
As for the double KO idea you had, that depends, really. He was up in the air and aimed at the Commandments, but if he aimed straight down at Gowther, his projectile might destroy Gowther's. Would it end up hitting him anyways? Maybe, depends on the angle and how the projectile was specifically aimed. But it wouldn't make much of a difference for the end result, as Escanor's transformation would run out anyways right after he used that move, even if Gowther hadn't landed that mental attack.
Not every single move anyone ever uses has to have a name.He might not have seen a random effortless explosion of power as deserving of a name. We've seen plenty of attacks in the series with no names involved, the only related name being the name of the original magic ability which is manifesting these attacks, but not stated in the attack panel or anything. I see no reason why this wouldn't qualify as one of those, it's the most logical assumption.RIkudou King said:
When determining how power levels work, you should look at the average, not exceptions. Zeldris seemed a bit fast for his power level, but more often than not the person with the lower power level is at a great disadvantage, this has been consistent more often than not throughout the series. Hendrickson vs Holy Knights, Garan vs Sins, any Commandment vs any Holy Knight, etc. And this Escanor vs Gowther gap is on the level of Garan vs Sins, it's quite an extreme multiple. He's at a power level of 20K+, it might've been 28K although I am not sure if that was the specific number stated. Either way, it was at least 20K, making him 5x stronger than Gowther, so it's quite extreme. There are some cases like Zeldris which are inconsistent, but those are the exception not the rule. The vast majority of the time, power levels matter quite a lot.Rikudou King said:
Ban got totally fodderized by people with way higher pls than him. He once stole Garan's strength to temporarily keep up with him, but that's because Garan and Merascylla weren't taking him seriously, specifically because Garan let him land the strength-steal for free. If he instead fought a no-nonsense fighter like Derierre, he really wouldn't have stood much of a chance at all, and he'd never be able to steal her strength without getting combo'd to death the second he tried.
Here's a long list that shows that in the majority of the major fights, PL is a massive factor.
1:Escanor vs Estarossa:PL is what let Escanor win, although he arguably shouldn't have if Estarossa had made better use of Full Counter, since their gap in PLs wasn't massive.
2:Garan vs Sins:Everyone knows this one. Gowther only allowed them to survive because Garan went it alone and was fighting several people at once, against even 2 commandments that illusion strategy would be useless. Granted, it was a very good strategy, but the fact is they had no way to possibly kill or defeat Garan with PLs so much lower than his.
3:Meliodas vs Dolor and Gloxinia:Meliodas only wins because he's constantly incapacitating one or the other thanks to Escanor's earlier opening, and has a significantly higher PL than either of them individually.
4:Meliodas vs the 10 Commandments: Not much he can do against so many foes, even if he could be stronger than any one individually.
5:Meliodas vs Escanor:Escanor gets stomped until he uses The One, because Meliodas is 3x his PL up to that point.
6:Sins vs Merascylla:Nothing she can do against so many foes, many who are equal to her or greater.
7:Sins vs Chandler(First fight):King is the central fighter by far because he has the highest PL, far above all the others PLs.
I think that should be a good enough list for you to understand how central PLs are in this story. Obviously, strategy and tactics still matter, but they won't make someone 1/5th the enemy strength suddenly kill them.
Overall I've given you more than enough evidence of how Gowther is not unkillable. You don't seem to understand the most central point of PLs, which is really concerning. If you can't understand after the clear explanation I just gave you, then I'm just going to give up on trying to make you understand it, as it will at that point prove to be a waste of time. If you do end up agreeing with me on how important PLs are, then you don't have much choice but to agree that Escanor's attacks could definitely kill Gowther. I don't see why proving that Gowther would win that one random battle is so important to you, you seem to be getting unnaturally stubborn about this when it does little to prove your original argument that Escanor isn't story-breaking anyways. For example, if I wanted to prove that Escanor isn't story breaking, I would say that his power as The One in the cocoon fight was perfectly logical and sensible, and even in that form needed several attacks to win. He also got countered by True Night before he could kill Zeldris, and before he used The One, proved to be overall much less effective than Ludociel, which was consistent with his much lower PL in near-noon form compared to Ludociel's absurd 200K. Or I would say how Escanor vs AM Meliodas, barring the illogical-ness of him going noon-mode at a convenient time, was a generally logical fight, with Escanor getting rekt until he got to become The One.
Anyway, it seems like your focus has derailed from your original line of conversation with the person you were talking to earlier, and I just don't get why you are still this focused on the one incident with Gowther. Not that I really mind, but it seems like it's going nowhere. Even if you proved that Gowther would somehow magically survive that overpowered sunshine attack and then hop back on stage if hit with it, what does that really prove? That Gowther has magical superhuman durability far exceeding what his PL shows? That his non-biological nature surely makes him invincible against all threats? Ok, Gowther is invincible then, in your own unsupported view of how the series works. But that doesn't actually prove that Escanor is balanced in the story, even if he would somehow lose against a foe you claim is conveniently impervious to harm.
TLDR, if you don't want to read this textwall, just read the first line I posted and answer your general opinion on how power levels work and what it takes to destroy a physical body if you are far stronger than the person who uses said body. That's the main question I want you to answer.
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I don't believe a character's power level has anything to do with how destructive they are/how destructive their attack can be. You're right in that we've seen countless destructive feats in this series. The thing is, we were seeing those right from the beginning, What's destructive are the techniques themselves, and as we've seen, even a weak character can be crazy destructive. Inversely, a strong character without the right techniques wouldn't be that destructive. To use the topic at hand, Gowther's power level currently is ten times as much as it originally was, but Gowther isn't any more destructive because he doesn't have those kind of techniques. You bring up Ban being "rekt", but in his fight with Garan, his power level was stated to be even greater. Yet Ban didn't do anything destructive, because Ban doesn't have those type of techniques. Even the current Ban, who's on the level to match the Demon King in a fight, didn't show anything destructive until he got his sacred weapon back. Heck, Ban could have defeated the two Commandments if he had wanted to. How? By just ripping out their hearts. We saw he was capable of that not only in that fight, but later on when he does it again to Merascula. Would you claim that Ban was stronger then her because he nearly killed her there, despite the difference in their power levels? Meanwhile, King is as destructive back in the past as he is in the present, despite a difference in power level. Ludociel had one of the highest power levels we've seen in the series, and he didn't have any crazy techniques.
You mention Chandler, but Chandler is crazy because of his magic spells. The Sins fought him and were able to handle his attacks, and even damage him, and that clearly wasn't due to power levels. In the DBZ-type situation you're talking about, they would have never been able to endure or damage someone massively over their level. Merlin has a lower power level then Chandler did, but she was capable of making more destructive magic then him when they clashed with Exterminate Ray. Speaking of Chandler, he and Cusack are on the same level, but since Cusack doesn't use magic, he has nowhere near the same crazy attacks. My point being, you're ignoring the specific context and going, "well this character's technique is destructive, therefore anything they do is destructive by default because of their power level" and that's flawed reasoning. This is proven by the multiple times weaker characters were able to fight and damage stronger ones.
I didn't misunderstand anything. The "Boom" was just Escanor basically blowing him away, likely how the darkness was blown away. There's nothing to indicate that it was some sort of technique, since as mentioned, no name was given when every technique and attack in this series is given one and the series has outright stated that Escanor can't control Sunshine like that, storing it up or releasing it at will. That's a literal plot point. He's incapable of that, thus the reason he needs his sacred treasure. If Escanor had some technique that could create a huge explosion, we would have surely been shown it again. The Graces themselves aren't magic. They can be used to create magic, but we know they themselves don't sense as magic via Escanor and Sunshine.
Unless you specifically go to cripple, such as aiming for limbs or such, it wouldn't be that simple. What would Gowther being cut in half do to prevent him from keep going? We saw with his beheading that he apparently can just stick lost parts back on. Unless you have foreknowledge of his capabilities, it's unlikely you would truly hinder him.
But, he didn't. Maybe I was unclear. Gowther had already ripped out his own heart well before this point, so that clearly had nothing to do with him surviving, unless it was some sort of phylactery-type situation.
I was referring to Hendrickson, who from what we saw didn't have such a thing, therefore couldn't have killed him even if he tried.
Aside from the speed of the projectile itself, that would only mean both sides lose.
Except power level has nothing to do with durability. That has never been a thing and can easily be disproved by multiple examples, such as the Sins fight against Chandler or regular Ban breaking Merascula's neck.
Special and unique moves do, especially with their first appearance. When have we ever been shown an attack that involved powers or was something unique, without a name? Why would every other technique involving Sunshine be named, but this one not be?
Except as I previous mentioned, Ban was shown capable of actually killing the Commandments had he actually tried. He outright did that to Merascula an arc later. So using Ban as an example is already flawed. These examples aren't just "exceptions to the rule", there's plenty of them around. As for your other examples, how are power levels the deciding factor? You're claiming that because the person with the higher power level won, it must have been because of that, while ignoring any context otherwise. For example, you use Meliodas verses the Ten Commandments as if Meliodas lost because he was weaker, when he was not only holding his own, but nearly won. And he lost specifically because of the effect of Estarossa's commandment, which had nothing to do with power levels. Anyone who had that ability would have had the same advantage, and take that away from Estarossa, and he would have had no way to stop Meliodas. And the fight with Chandler had the Sins easily holding their own against him despite his much higher power level, which goes against your argument that a higher difference in power level means fodderization.
There's a huge difference in saying that someone wins because they have the right technique verses saying they win because they're at a higher level. That's honestly ridiculous. I have no problem with the argument that Escanor would win because he has Cruel Sun, But claiming victory just because of level is out of the question. According to that logic, Merlin would never win against any high ranking demon because her power level is so low, but that's clearly not the case. The same with Ban, we specifically see that he could defeat a Commandment if he wanted to, and Gowther, who was shown capoable of affecting Garan despite the difference in level.
The only reason the Gowther conversation went on as long as it did was because it was claim I was "headcanon"ing things about him, and that specific fight kept being brought up. I acknowledged soon after it began I had been wrong about him being killible when the statement with Mael was mentioned. I don't think it's stubborn to disagree with someone who's claiming you're making up stuff... And I was talking about much more then just this single incident.
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Power level correlates to destructive capability. If Meliodas had a PL of 10 he would not be capable of any of those destructive feats since he wouldn't have the necessary strength or magic. Greater PL=Greater capability of destruction. The power level is what is being used to cause destruction and it increases, thereby increasing the destruction possible. What part of that do you not understand?
Gowther hasn't done more destructive feats because he's had no reason to do so. His powers are clearly stronger than before. With his PL his physical strength also increased. Meliodas with a PL of only 60'000 or so, easily split a mountain with a twig swing, and that's just through raw physical strength. Garan, with physical strength 28'000, caused great destruction through sheer physical force. Clearly, if you up the strength enough, the amount of destructive capability goes up. Ban could do the same twig swing now since he's much stronger than Meliodas was then. That also wasn't some magically 'special' technique, either, it was simply physical strength, so it's obvious it's going to work the same for everyone.
It was greater against Garan because the gap wasn't as extreme against Garan as against Chandler or Estarossa. Ban doesn't do any area destruction because he uses single target attacks, he has no reason to do so, it is not like he's trying to hit people in a wide range, he is just punching Garan. But obviously, he can cause wide destruction with his PL if he really wants to, we saw that with the DK-Meliodas fight. Yes, the destruction is not always completely linear, but that is due to DBZ logic that tends to be applied in all shonen that get to this level of power, with them controlling their power more. There's not a point to them blowing up the entire area every time they battle if all they aim to destroy is their opponents.
Ban could've gotten at least one kill, but didn't realize that superior demons like Estarossa or Merascylla have more hearts than the fodder Red ones. He only got the opening because Garan let him power up for free. Nothing you said there disproves PL logic:He was able to take out the hearts because of the free PL boost Garan let him get. If not then it obviously wouldn't have worked. Actually, Merascylla's PL was likely lower than his at the time because she didn't have most of her energy back yet, same with Garan. If Garan had his full power back at the time he fought Ban, Ban wouldn't have ripped out his hearts and probably wouldn't have gotten to run away. Same with Merascylla.
King isn't the type to blow up everything in a wide radius to show how much more powerful his magic is. He has gotten a lot stronger, and did state he was capable of a much greater destruction feat than before. IE, him sayiing he could blow up the general area with Sunflower to kill all the baby Induras, it used to just be a much smaller beam that could never do that. The biggest explosion he could manage at his early power was the one that blew up one of those Albions, now a move like that is even easier for him than it was for Gloxinia, of course he has more destructive potential as has been clearly stated in a way you should've realized already.
It doesn't matter if Ludociel has displayed any wide AOE attacks that would satisfy you. The fact is, his power level is more than sufficient to do all of the same feats of destruction as weaker people have. Destroying a city with Omega ark, splitting mountains, perhaps cutting a very wide area in half with the overly long light sword he used when making a pact with Elizabeth, etc. And more fundamentally than that fact is the simple fact of how PL works in general as I explained. Ludociel could vaporize someone with a punch if they are enough weaker than him, so could Ban, so could Diane, etc. Meliodas has demonstrated how this works in the past against Fraudrin, although it'd be rather obvious anyways with all the other feats shown in this manga.
The DBZ situation is far more accurate to that fight than you realize. King was by far the main threat against Chandler due to his PL and you ignored my statement of that for some reason, even though it's demonstrably accurate. Diane got instant-minituarized, and we never saw that happen again when Chandler fought people more even with him in PL.Rikudou King said:
Every single person who read the fight where Merlin somehow clashes with him should know that this made no logical sense. Of course that's nonsense. How do you even logically justify it in your mind? "Oh, a 5'000 PL Exterminate Ray clashed somewhat evenly with one 30x stronger because...Magic! Because she's Merlin! Because the plot demands!"Seriously, I want you to let me in on that reasoning process where you somehow conclude that it isn't an illogical asspull. Do you believe it's nonsense and an asspull or not? Give a clear yes/no answer with a reasonable explanation please.
Cusack could shred someone to bits in a second if they were far weaker than him. We've seen far physically weaker charas like Garan achieve big destructive feats with nothing but strength so obviously cusack could do those things too. Cusack has the same amount of energy to use for his attacks as Chandler does, there's nothing about magic that makes it uniquely more destructive than physical force. That part should be obvious.
Him manipulating Sunshine does not mean he is storing up his power and preventing a continuous release of sunshine rays from his body. It's the same as using Cruel Sun, and he doesn't need Rhitta to use Cruel Sun. It's just a way he shapes the power of Sunshine and manipulates it. Yes, Escanor blows him away, I never said it's a 'named technique' or anything 'special', it's simply a way of him manipulating Sunshine and exerting power with it actively, similar to Cruel Sun.Rikudou King said:
"If Escanor had some technique that could create a huge explosion, we would have surely been shown it again."
Wrong. When did he ever need to do that another time? If he'd used it against Garan and Merascylla, he would've incinerated Ban for no good reason. He had no reason to use it against Gowther because he was aiming for Dolor and Gloxinia. He had no need to use it against Estarossa and Zeldris. Same against Assault Mode Meliodas, who he wanted to beat up with his bare hands and make a joke out of him with Divine Sword Escanor. Against Chandler/Cusack/etc, he would've hit Ludociel with it as friendly fire. No reason to use against Sinner either. The only uses of that aoe are 1 vs multiple battles where he's the solo individual and no allies are at risk, or to blow up a fortress, and he used it for the second reason against Izraf. No additional instances where he should've used it but didn't have come up since then. Can you think of any?
They are magic. They are magic blessings which are part of the Supreme Deity's magic power and grant magical abilities. I will say that they don't manifest solely as magic though, as Sunshine obviously grants Escanor quite a bit of physical strength in addition to giving him magical power. Your nitpicking about exactly what to call them seems rather trite, but clearly, bestowing a magical blessing to someone is a magical spell and a "Grace" is thus a magical thing, not a 'non magical' thing.
If he was cut in half he'd have no legs. Good luck fighting without legs or half of your torso. Or he'd be split vertically in half, which should definitely kill any enemy. How's he going to move if his spine or any fascimile of one he has is destroyed? Beheading is different, sticking a robotic head back into its socket is much more feasible than reassembling a shredded-to-pieces robotic body, or one that's cut in half horizontally. He's never shown the ability to regenerate, reattaching limbs or a head is much less powerful than the regeneration which the demons and angels have shown.Rikudou King said:
So, what's your explanation of how he survives? Is there a 'core' anywhere that can kill him if destroyed? A CPU or something along those lines. Mine would be that his head is probably the 'core', and he reattached his head because he can send remote signals to his body. He wouldn't even be able to see if his head was destroyed anyways, even if he somehow remained conscious.Rikudou King said:
Yes he could though. Look at what he did to Ban in this page:Rikudou King said:
He incinerated his entire upper half. What's gowther going to do if the whole upper portion of his body is completely gone? Can't reattach something that isn't there anymore. Moreover, Hendrickson just has to use that move twice or at a larger area, to completely destroy Gowther's whole body. How do you suppose he's supposed to survive that?
It wouldn't. He's fast enough that he could dodge a homing arrow, speed blitz Gowther, kill him, then dodge the returning projectile once again before it even got back to him. Not that he would even need to dodge said projectile if he is so much stronger.Rikudou King said:
You're cherry-picking, or you're just very misguided on this and not considering the broad view of what happens on average. The vast majority of incidents prove that PL creates durability. Dreyfus taking zero damage from a combined move, Hendrickson taking zero damage from the holy knight attacks because they're too weak, Ban breaking his fingers on Estarossa because he has too much physical strength to be hurt, Ban doing zero damage to Chandler because he's too powerful, Chandler taking nearly zero damage from Dolor/Glox because they're too weak to hurt him much, Garan fodderizing and oneshotting Holy Knights because their PLs are too low for them to endure his hits, Escanor easily tanking Garan's ultimate attack because of his higher PL, and on and on and on. The vast majority of incidents prove that power level does indeed mean durability.Rikudou King said:
As for your two examples:
Chandler landed exactly one attack on Diane, and that was after his magic already got cut to less than half, against her using Heavy Metal. It's not a surprise she survived since Chandler got weakened beforehand. Most of his other attacks were aimed at King, who had enough magic power to block them. If you simply looked at the choreography of that fight, it's clear as day that King was central because A:He was the strongest one there and B
iane got shrunk before she could start powering up with Dolor Dance. It's a bad example for 'disproving PL logic' magically.Merascylla was already stated as one of the 'non combat' focused members of the Ten Commandments. The way she uses her PL to defend is primarily through her dark magic, like her cocoon. She got oneshot by Ban because he hit her by surprise and she had zero defenses up at the time, if she'd had the cocoon active already there would be nothing he could do against her. Think of her as a bit of a glass cannon since she's support focused, unless she can get her magic in position to defend. Others with physical strength tend to be much more well rounded, while a few other magicians like King somehow manage to have durability anyways, although they usually guard with magic.
Anyway, as I showed, you're not looking at the big picture, where on the broad level, PL does indeed equal durability. If anything, all your argument proves is that Gowther's durability is lower than you might expect, as his magic power level might do little to ensure that his body is well defended, especially since he has zero direct defensive magic options.
There were several such techniques in the Holy War flashbacks, like all the unnamed Ark spells they used, and 100% of the Indura attacks. I'll grant that Nakaba gives attacks names quite often, but not always. I don't see why Escanor would need to do so for a very effortless instant kill.Rikudou King said:
He only had the chance because Garan let his guard down and let him get the free steal, and because he has immortality. In an all out fight that strength steal wouldn't matter since he'd never get a chance to land it. Yes, Ban has an OP ability that lets him fight people far stronger than he normally should be able to fight, but that doesn't make PL logic suddenly not exist, he only does it by raising his strength and lowering the enemy's strength after all. It's still a good feat by Ban, but it doesn't change that an enemy being way stronger and faster is a huge threat that puts the fight overwhelmingly in their favor.Rikudou King said:
Saying it is because of Estarossa alone is very incomplete. The primary cause of Meliodas having any chance was that the Commandments were toying with him:They only attacked 1 or 2 at a time rather than murdering him in a few seconds by all barraging at once. His method doesn't exactly break the rules of power levels. He's simply storing up power and using an AOE attack to try to kill them all at once before they can retalliate and all barrage him to death easily, not too dissimliar from what Sariel and Tarmiel tried with Omega Ark once before. The only reason that's possible is that they all stay close within a future blast radius they don't know about so they each get a chance to beat on him.
Technically we weren't even told what it was that stopped it. For all I know, Counter Vanish physical dissipated the energy within the sword when Estarossa put his gauntlet in the way, since Mel's spin attack counted as a physical attack and the magic energy was dispersed as a result before it could be released as a magical aoe attack. But yes, the love commandment as the cause is a doable assumption.
"The Sins" didn't hold their own easily, that was mostly thanks to King. Diane blocked one attack, Merlin was useless due to a seal, Elizabeth only healed, and Gowther primary contribution was a team attack with King that only worked because King's attack was strong and fast enough to be a threat. Of course, Gowther's tactic was very good and illusions can cheese higher PL enemies to some extent, but he still needed King for it to work. Ban, as mentioned before, got one shot and could do very little to help due to his low PL.
Why is it ridiculous, though? Is your sole reason for thinking that just because of seeming inconsistencies or because you think it's illogical in itself? Imagine someone 5x stronger and faster than someone else who can one shot that person. It isn't a surprise that this could mean a 0% win chance for the weaker character. I think it shouldn't be hard to agree on that.Rikudou King said:
It's quite clear that Merlin's recent power up was an asspull. If she had been that strong from the beginning, she could've easily defeated both Grayroad and Fraudrin at once, then proceeded to stomp all of the other Commandments on her own, even without Meliodas or Escanor. She defeated 2 demon masters of 170K power level each with her overpowered magic, at that rate nothing can stop her, certainly not some enemies far weaker than those.
I already showed you how Ban's plan would not work against a commandment who took the fight more seriously like Derierre, Zeldris, etc. Garan made a big mistake because of his overconfidence. I agree he could've died right there and then, but suppose Garan was 40K power level against Ban. Clearly there's a cap on how much Ban can steal, and if Garan had been significantly stronger, even with a good strategy Ban would have no chance of dealing damage and killing him. As shown when he tried and failed to kill Estarossa, who did nothing to stop his strength stealing.
Well, I won't claim you're making up stuff if that bothers you, but I am clueless still as to what you are even trying to say Gowther can endure.Rikudou King said:
I think I should make the point that techniques are not separate from power level, they are simply an application of it. Cruel Sun is just a way that Escanor manipulates Sunshine, it is not something truly special in itself. The reason it's so deadly is that his PL is high. He wouldn't vaporize lakes if he had a much lower PL. So saying "Escanor wins because of Cruel Sun" makes no sense, it is because Cruel Sun was strong enough to kill the enemy. Of course, techniques add variety to how someone can use their abilities, and sometimes the versatility is a big deal. But the point is, power level is a very necessary component to that quite often. Even if Escanor didn't have Cruel Sun, his raw physical strength would be enough to slice Gowther or any other person of Gowther's level into a dozen pieces with Rhitta, and that would be quite fatal. Point is, power levels are very important in battles, it determines how strong/fast/etc someone is, so of course that's going to change the fight. Yes, people can win off of sheer power alone, that's inevitable when you have power gaps as big as there are in this manga. This is part of the whole effect of having clearly defined power levels in the first place, to show that such gaps can exist and are a massive deal. That's why the characters take such effort to bridge the gap and increase their level. I don't see why you don't understand this.
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I have no idea where this debate is going, but Escanor’s castle destroying feat is him doing it intentionally. The only thing that was said about Escanor not controlling his power is that once he starts emitting too much, he can’t repress it that well and that his daytime personality is reckless. The manga has never stated that he can’t emit more heat if he wants to. It’s only stated that he has trouble repressing it once he does so.
As for why Izraf wasn’t burned all at once, well that’s because Escanor was holding back once he transformed. He was stronger than Mel’s 30k base at dawn, Escanor could’ve ended the fight whenever he wanted.
Also Escanor should be able to beat Gowther with little to moderate difficulty. Even nerobasta recognized that Gowther did not have the makeup of a fighter just by looking at him and even in Gowthers more recent fights it’s so far required a team effort for his invasion to work
As for why Izraf wasn’t burned all at once, well that’s because Escanor was holding back once he transformed. He was stronger than Mel’s 30k base at dawn, Escanor could’ve ended the fight whenever he wanted.
Also Escanor should be able to beat Gowther with little to moderate difficulty. Even nerobasta recognized that Gowther did not have the makeup of a fighter just by looking at him and even in Gowthers more recent fights it’s so far required a team effort for his invasion to work
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I disagree. We've seen plenty of characters be destructive without high power levels. The entire first part of the series had a bunch of crazy feats by both the Sins and the Holy Knights, even though scale-wise they would've been far below the current power levels. Even the characters in the series has mentioned that the numbers aren't the be-all of the situation. If having a higher number was all that mattered, then the one with the higher numbers would always succeed, and there are plenty of examples showing the opposite.
Gowther has had plenty of reasons to "be destructive", such as his fight with Chandler, the Indura, and Mael. Heck, in the latter, he went straight to a suicide plan. If he had other options to do damage, he surely would have shown them in these battles instead of sticking with his regular method of mental attacks or just not doing anything. And with Ban, we specifically saw him have a need to do an AOE attack without the means until he was given back his sacred treasure. And how did Ban not know, when he's shown taking multiple hearts from Merascula? As far as I know, Superior demons don't have more hearts, but even if they do, Ban would have known they had more then one. One would imagine that to grab something, Ban would have to have some awareness of it. Merascula had just been restored, what indication was there that she was lacking energy? So you;'re saying that had their power level been a little bit higher, Ban wouldn't have been able to do as he did, even though he specifically did said feat when their power level was already above his? How does that even work?
Except King clearly had no reason to hold back against the Sinner and Zeldoris. And I mean, simply swinging the beam around would do that without an increase in sizes. It's not about my satisfaction. It's about what has been shown. I could make the same claims of the reverse, but that means nothing without actual proof. The series has never made power levels the defining definition of strength. We have multiple examples of weaker characters matching and even winning over those with higher power levels. The author even had a character state that power levels aren't all that matter. Merlin herself completely disproves the idea that power levels matter.
I didn't deny that, how is that ignoring it? Yeah, King took the main stage, but all the Sins were fighting him, including Diana, who was quite a bit below him. And wasn't Gowther only slightly lower then King? The whole point was that despite Chandler's vastly higher power level, the fight was far from a slaughter.
I've already stated I have a serious issue with Merlin and her actions in this series, though from your comment we clearly have a differences of opinion on why her actions were an asspull. I have no problem with Merlin being OP, since she was established as such and her backstory made it clear she was unique to the point that the Demon King and Supreme Goddess both wanted her. My issues with her is that if she's suppose to be this genius master sorceress, then she should be a genius master sorceress all the time, instead of doing nothing for major stretches of time til the last minute. But just because you consider that nonsense and illogical, doesn't make it any less canon. I consider a bunch of stuff as nonsense and illogical, but that doesn't mean I can just ignore it. Magic clearly has more variations for destruction then physical force.
I was saying it would be a named technique if it was something more, like how Cruel Sun is a named technique. And what? He specifically separated from the group to go all out against Estarossa, and he outright didn't give a damn about Ludociel. And against the Sinners, he was in a desperate situation being pushed back and had no reason to hold back. I mean, what kind of sense is that, that he would use this amazing technique against Izraf, who was a lesser threat already "dying" and while as far as he knew, his comrades were still around, but he wouldn't use it in far more dangerous situations against far more dangerous opponents? And it's not like Escanor is one to hold back.
We're specifically told it wasn't magic and as far as I know, that was never changed.
I mean, you're trying to apply logical movement to a doll. As far as we know, Gowther doesn't have bones or anything, since he was physically a small puppet. And Gowther's fighting style is long range in nature, so losing his legs wouldn't hamper his ability to fight back. Right, but sticking pieces together doesn't seem much of an issue for him. As said, sure with foreknowledge stopping him would be simple, but that's with foreknowledge.
I mean, the answer is clearly magic. Obviously he's not a robot or the sort, we saw his true appearance as an actual puppet doll.
I didn't recall this, so I acknowledge my mistake and take back my comment about Hendrickson's ability.
I feel like you're applying feats that we have seen no evidence of. There's a difference between jumping upward to dodge something, and basically being a speedster. We've sen nothing to suggest that Escanor is one.
It's not cherry-picking. Yeah, Dreyfus could tank attacks, thanks to his unique ability. But Fraudrin, after being exorcised, was able to be damaged by Dreyfus despite the lower power level. Henrickson also tanked the attacks of Meliodas and the Sins, while taking damage from Elizabeth's holy power, so clearly the issue wasn't merely power levels but his armor. During the same fight, Ban broke Merascula's neck. I don't recall Ban actually attacking Chandler, only either holding onto him or attempting an attack before being blasted. Meanwhile, the other Sins were doing damage, including Diana, disproving that claim. And Chandler was shown with damage during his fight with Dolor and Gloxinia. Garan got affected by Gowther's technique. And Escanor wasn't that much higher then Garan. But this isn't the "vast majority". We saw plenty of the Holy Knights doing damage to the Sins, despite the Sins having a higher power levels. We had the whole thing with Arthur and the the demons, the Sins against Merascula, nearly all the fights with Zeldoris, everything with Merlin, the Archangels and Derieri against Mael, the current situation with the Demon King, etc.You're cherry-picking, or you're just very misguided on this and not considering the broad view of what happens on average. The vast majority of incidents prove that PL creates durability. Dreyfus taking zero damage from a combined move, Hendrickson taking zero damage from the holy knight attacks because they're too weak, Ban breaking his fingers on Estarossa because he has too much physical strength to be hurt, Ban doing zero damage to Chandler because he's too powerful, Chandler taking nearly zero damage from Dolor/Glox because they're too weak to hurt him much, Garan fodderizing and oneshotting Holy Knights because their PLs are too low for them to endure his hits, Escanor easily tanking Garan's ultimate attack because of his higher PL, and on and on and on. The vast majority of incidents prove that power level does indeed mean durability.
As for your two examples:
Chandler landed exactly one attack on Diane, and that was after his magic already got cut to less than half, against her using Heavy Metal. It's not a surprise she survived since Chandler got weakened beforehand. Most of his other attacks were aimed at King, who had enough magic power to block them. If you simply looked at the choreography of that fight, it's clear as day that King was central because A:He was the strongest one there and B
Merascylla was already stated as one of the 'non combat' focused members of the Ten Commandments. The way she uses her PL to defend is primarily through her dark magic, like her cocoon. She got oneshot by Ban because he hit her by surprise and she had zero defenses up at the time, if she'd had the cocoon active already there would be nothing he could do against her. Think of her as a bit of a glass cannon since she's support focused, unless she can get her magic in position to defend. Others with physical strength tend to be much more well rounded, while a few other magicians like King somehow manage to have durability anyways, although they usually guard with magic.
Anyway, as I showed, you're not looking at the big picture, where on the broad level, PL does indeed equal durability. If anything, all your argument proves is that Gowther's durability is lower than you might expect, as his magic power level might do little to ensure that his body is well defended, especially since he has zero direct defensive magic options.
But Chandler wasn't using magic against Diana, so why would that apply to that example? And considering the sheer difference between their power levels, even cut in a quarter, he still would have been above her. And as for Merascula, right, so you acknowledge that it's not simply power levels that determine this stuff. If it was solely down to power levels, then the demons wouldn't need to use their regeneration ability, the Archangels wouldn't need their special abilities, and the Demon King clearly wouldn't need a specific ability to protect him. That's the point, that the majority of characters have unique or special abilities that allow them the edge in fights. It's not simply about who is stronger, otherwise characters wouldn't need to block and dodge attacks from those beneath them.
Who says those were separate techniques from Ark as we've been shown? And if I recall, the Indura's attack was named, just in their tongue. Perhaps because it was a major situation and display?
Why would he never get a chance to land it? It only takes Ban an instant to do what he needs to do. Also, given that Ban had the higher power level at that point, how does that not disprove your claim about power levels?
But it was Estarossa alone. We were literally shown that, that the Commandments were in trouble before Estarossa stepped in. And they're weren't "toying" with him, they were very openly trying to kill him. I'm not sure how you figure they could all do it together given their difference in fighting styles and attacks. And it's not an assumption, we're specifically told it was the Love commandment that caused him to lose.
Diana didn't just block one attack, she was also in the battle itself. Ban held Chandler in place for some attacks, and Gowther was able to affect him even alone.
It's ridiculous because we've seen differently. You can't discount the counter examples as inconsistent or illogical just because they don't fit your claim. In addition, power levels are a combination of several things. Physical abilities are just one part, and without knowing the actual numbers, claiming the total means superiority over another is faulty. The series made it clear that a character's power level can be due to a majority in one of the areas while the others are low. If you're gonna use the power levels, you should at least use them correctly.
Isn't the situation with Garan the only time Merlin was shown at a disadvantage against a Commandment. She did easily defeat Greyroad... And no, you really didn't. All you said was that Garan "let down his guard", which shouldn't have mattered if the only thing that mattered was power levels. You can't claim that a character with a lower power level can't even harm one with a higher power level, and then apply excuses to the opposite. I mean, a presumably much weaker Derieri was able to draw blood from Mael after he already took in two commandments...
The whole point was that in that situation, it would take a specific sort of attack to win against Gowther, one which as mentioned, isn't something that would be used without actual foreknowledge about him and his capabilities. I've already explain why I disagree with how you believe power levels work, but even then, only at best a third of his power level would factor into the strength of Cruel Sun, given how power levels are made up of three separate categories.
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Where do those come from?
Plus, 遮度 doesn't exist in Japanese. I take it that's actually 速度.
"It refers to the power bestowed upon Ludociel by the Supreme Deity."
"He is able to move at quite literally flash-like speed."
Nothing says the Grace actually granting light speed to its user.
Plus, 遮度 doesn't exist in Japanese. I take it that's actually 速度.
"It refers to the power bestowed upon Ludociel by the Supreme Deity."
"He is able to move at quite literally flash-like speed."
Nothing says the Grace actually granting light speed to its user.
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They came from a dude who on another forum who posted this and he wanted a translator
And thanks for clearing this up
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Lol at the verse being lightspeed
In that sense Mael is having power of actual sun and it would put the verse at star level lol
So no just because it says flash doesn't mean it's lightspeed it can be of any range
From what shown I will only put ludo at massively hypersonic+
Can't believe this verse which started as being very powerful just ends up being not very strong
In that sense Mael is having power of actual sun and it would put the verse at star level lol
So no just because it says flash doesn't mean it's lightspeed it can be of any range
From what shown I will only put ludo at massively hypersonic+
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Can't believe this verse which started as being very powerful just ends up being not very strong
