Discussion One Piece- Chosen hero comparison to Naruto

weixiaobao

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Nothing spoiler, it just I don't want the post to look huge. My thoughts below. But what are your thoughts on this topic??

So in recent arc, we got the reveal of the big straw hat in the Reverie and then the Gomu Gomu fruit by Who's Who. This whole notion of a chosen hero coming up, and how that kinda destroyed Naruto, and One Piece may go the same way. I am very much disagree.

Gomu Gomu fruit is not the same as the Nine Tails (Yin Yang thing). Naruto does have his own complication that he needs to battle through. But once he able to tap into his power and have both halves of Kurama, he is super OP. Even if Gomu Gomu fruit ended up having a lot of significant, but we can see couple of things. The Gomu Gomu fruit is pretty useless when untrained, especially when he was younger in his Ace's flashback. Even with training, depend on the match up through out the story, he can be f over. Even Foxy got the better of him. Many hack DF can get better of him. Even the straight forward ones can get better of him like said the Mochi fruit. Conquering haki also need to be train (and properly train). People that weaker than Luffy had knowledge about haki that he didn't even know such as Hyogoro.

Naruto had a lot of connections. Ended up being the student of the teacher of the 4th Hokage/student of the 3rd, and student of the eventual 6th Hokage. Garp sparingly trained Luffy. And Garp also trained a bunch of people. Rayleigh became Luffy teacher by chance. Without the Sabaody incident, and subsequence Marineford event. Luffy could have merrily go his way into the New World. Kakashi assigned to Luffy is by design (just as Kakashi the only public Sharingan user left in the Leaf became mentor to Sasuke). And Jiraya, his master is basically a forgone conclusion. Even the training with Hyogoro is because Luffy f up in Wano.

In Naruto, there is a prophecy that Naruto fulfilling. In One Piece, there are very few instances of prophecy. One in Wano, but Toki's words are more like propaganda. In Fishman Island, the prophecy is extremely specific and not something super grand like in Naruto. Of course, there are instances where people are hoping for something. Such as Joyboy's promises or the Minks waiting for the coming dawn. But a lot of people can fill that role. There are plenty of the D clans that grew to prominent. Gol D Roger, Monkey D Dragon, Monkey D Garp. Gol D Roger could potentially accomplish the goal if he wasn't sick. Monkey D Dragon is actively rebelling against the government. Trafalgar D Law set in motion of the destruction of Doflamingo and disrupted Kaido's artificial DF pipeline. And there are also plenty of NON D people that had significant impact in the story as well. This is Luffy's story, so his significant impact would be way more. But what I am saying is that he is not uniquely (at least 1000 chapters in) to be the ONLY one possible to fulfilled this role. Maybe we merely as an audience able to glance at a moment in history. China for thousand of years divided and unify. By mere time passes, there is ought to be one to unified the country. And those unifier can be random nobody that were in the right place at the right time. Often, they would pass post hoc propaganda way way way way way latter on that said their birth is something special. That they received some sort of divine right since birth. Ace (also a D) had a special birth, and Ace died.

My point is this. If Luffy ended up bringing the Dawn. He did it because of the CHOICES that he MADE. Not because he is somehow Uniquely Qualified.
 

Windfall Island

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The way i like to see it is :-

Was it Joyboy who kept on looking for hope into the future , finally when he reached the 800+ year mark in his foresight , saw someone like Luffy turning the world upside down & then make the prediction & then actual 800 years passed & now Luffy is on his way to do what he was gonna do anyways , just someone 800 years ago had the ability to foresaw all of this & predicted it .
Or
Was Luffy able to do all of this because joyboy made such a prediction 800 years ago.

I feel its kind of both & so none of this will take away anything from the contribution that joyboy ,roger & luffy made to finally make the reality of defeating imu true.

Also as per kaido's words , "luffy could not become joyboy either" implies that ppl in the past have tried to become joyboy & yet failed.
I think whoever that person is gonna be that makes joyboy's prediction comes true is up for grabs . No one character is primarily destined to accomplish it.
Only one will at the end & in hindsight one can then say that he was destined to. But that is not true. Reality will play in one possibility only coz thats the nature of reality. That should not be the reason to conclude that such a person was destined to achieve all of that.

For some one to achieve what even joyboy failed to achieve 800 years ago , one will need extreme hard work, perservearance , will power , unwavering belief in self , intution to judge other ppl etc <- (say category 1 qualities ) but also extreme luck. Because in this span of 800 years lots of ppl with category 1 qualities were born & yet without extreme luck none of them will get that final push to the finish line of defeating imu successfully.

So extreme luck is there on luffy's side as well. But i dont see that as destiny of luffy as being the chosen one.
 

Fox666

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I think we already have a clear idea of what does it means to become Joy Boy.

It means finding the One Piece, then doing something about it that will turn the world upside down.

Roger found One Piece, but due to his illness he did not have enough time, so he couldn't become Joy Boy.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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I have to disagree.



Chapter 576 says otherwise.

There is a chosen one.

For one, it's someone from the D clan which is why it says "someone from that bloodline". This is why the Gorosei don't like the D. name being publicised and want it kept a secret. Anything related to the D Clan, Void Century or Ancient Kingdom, they want to keep under wraps because they don't want people to buy into revolution.

Also, the reason why Shanks BET his on Luffy is because of his character and.. he's a D meaning... he is potentially the one Roger was waiting for.

Roger told Whitebeard about Laughtale and his findings, thus why Whitebeard said One Piece was real and why he knew about this chosen one. Why Whitebeard took on Ace? He was grooming him to be Pirate King. He knew someone from the D clan was destined to defeat the WG and end their corruption, so he also took a chance on Ace.

Reason Whitebeard told Marco to not let Luffy die.. is because he saw the same thing in Luffy, and considered the possibility Luffy might be the one Roger was waiting for and not actually Ace.



Bare in mind, Roger became Pirate King 25 years ago.
  • 25 years ago, It was prophesied that Shirahoshi would be born in 15 years.

Guess when Oden told Toki... that in 20 years, people would come from the sea to save Wano? 5 years after Roger became Pirate King which would be exactly 20 years from the day Oden died.
  • Oden was able to time it to a perfection because Shirahoshi's powers would have Awakened, and she'd have met Luffy as was prophesied meaning this was the period in which the world was going to change completely, thus why Wano's borders would be opened 20 years. This is why Toki sent the Samurai 20 years into the future.
One Piece is pretty much based on a prophecy.

Even Joyboy's prophecy to Fishman Island pretty much said that someone would come in his stead to meet Poseidon, and fulfil the promise that he couldn't and change the world.

Luffy simply doesn't know it, nor does he believe in such things. He however is the chosen one. I don't see that as spoiling the story.

It's a story after-all, a work of fiction.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Roger found One Piece, but due to his illness he did not have enough time, so he couldn't become Joy Boy.
It's not just about illness.

Shirahoshi wasn't born during his time-line, therefore, things couldn't play out.

Timing was a big factor in everything. Everything had to be perfectly aligned.

Roger played his role, his role was to inspire Luffy,
 

weixiaobao

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Timing was a big factor in everything. Everything had to be perfectly aligned.
All I have are nitpicks, and I am not gonna post any of it since I got where you going with your post. Napoleon could just be a general and not an emperor if he wasn't in the right place and at the right time. When I think about the chosen hero. I think about Harry Potter. Harry Potter had couple of qualities uniquely as anti Voldemort. But the twist in that prophecy is that Voldemort made Harry Potter due to his own interpretation of the prophecy (a self fulfilled prophecy). And with that particular story, Harry who does have admirable traits (some probably genetics like flying, some due to environment like being a lonely orphan he isn't a rich a hole). But overall the guy can be pretty standard, he is no where near the great Dumbledore or Voldemort. Nor does he possess some great innate ability.

So there are multiple way to write a chosen hero. Some are more compelling than others. So I supposed even if I granted that what unique about Luffy is he born in the right time with some capacity to fulfil the prophecy.

So then we can move the discussion to narrative. What people have a problem with Naruto is especially his preachiness compare to the like of Neji (who try to broke out of his destiny) and Lee (who trying to make best with what he is given). In One Piece, I supposed the idea of freedom vs the idea of destiny. Since those two are fundamentally opposite each others. But the way One Piece is execute thus far, these two ideas not quite clashing quite yet. So in this way, what would be the wort thing Oda can do. And how he can write around it?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I think we already have a clear idea of what does it means to become Joy Boy.
Well, imagine if you just reading One Piece on your own without the internet community. Do you actually have a clear idea of how to become Joy Boy. Maybe outside of getting Fishman Island up from the surface? Even with all the theories, we still had a lot of assumptions.
 
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Fox666

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It's not just about illness.

Shirahoshi wasn't born during his time-line, therefore, things couldn't play out.

Timing was a big factor in everything. Everything had to be perfectly aligned.

Roger played his role, his role was to inspire Luffy,
Well, it's about his illness... otherwise he could just have waited (for Shirahoshi to be born?). 🤷
 

Hannibal Psyche

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Well, it's about his illness... otherwise he could just have waited (for Shirahoshi to be born?). 🤷
Even if Roger wasn't ill, he'd be 77 years old. His strength wouldn't be quite what it was back then.

On top of that, the world believes Roger is a demon. WG Propaganda ruined his reputation, so his reputation was in tatters. Why did they all want to kill Ace? It's because he was related to Roger.

Luffy unlike Roger has:
  • Saved Many Countries.
  • He's regarded as a hero for saving these countries. WG officials like Smoker and Fujitora have attested to Luffy's heroism and the citizens of many countries believe Luffy is a hero. The WG propaganda can no longer work on him.
Why is Luffy being perceived as a hero and being seen as a good person to countries important? When Luffy reveals the One Piece, Countries like Dressrosa, Wano, Fishman Island, Alabasta will believe him and his crew as they have no reason to lie.

Roger doesn't have the reputation to speak the truth and be believed. If Roger said anything about the World Government being corrupt and destroying some Ancient Kingdom... they wouldn't believe it, they'd just assume he's another evil Pirate, he's evil. Luffy on the other hand? He's built trust in many nations, he's been seen as a hero everywhere he goes because he's saved many countries... They know him personally...

Roger being alive was not the problem. Roger's reputation was, and that's where Luffy comes in. He's got the strength, he's got the ability to create allies and he's got a good reputation which Roger lacked.
 

hokageji

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I hope Gomu Gomu no Mi isn't like the kyuubi atleast. But OP has always been about destiny. the only shortcoming i can think of is the lack of the chosen ones for the race... It boils down to Teach and Luffy, Law is probably only interested in finding the meaning of D.. where are the other D title holders? Its just realistically 2, at best 3....
 
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