Discussion One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

goldb

Strongest Under the Sun
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Administrator
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
27,556
Reaction score
26,857
Gender
Male
Country
United Kingdom
Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

  • For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
  • Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
  • Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
  • We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

  1. Shanks v Mihawk
  2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
  3. Zoro > Luffy
  4. Zoro v Sanji
  5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
  6. Mihawk's rank within the story
  7. Law having CoC currently.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.
 
Last edited:

XXGenesis

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
2,352
Reaction score
1,231
Age
30
Gender
Male
Country
Turkmenistan
So Zoro is fighting someone around the level of Katakuri, whom Luffy may be able to one-shot by this point?
YC1 do not get one shot by Yonkou’s.
The rooftop is proof of that.
Even Queen got back up from Big Mom’s casual lunch. It wasn’t that big


King and Queen were terrified and seemingly helpless against of Big Mom while she was bound in seastone.

Big Mom, Luffy, and Kaido are simply in another league at this point.

King may not be one-shot material for Luffy but it's certainly a low-mid diff for him. If not now, by the end of his fight with Kaido... and he isn't even awakened :yoda
I don’t think Kaido has an awaken form.

Both Zoro & Luffy already accumulated damage before they were taken out by Kaido’s ACoC attack….So no Yc1 don’t get one shot. They have enough ability to survive more than 1 attack, serious or not
 

grey matter

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
4,683
Reaction score
6,064
Age
25
Gender
Male
Country
India
I don't think anyone on that roof (Big Mom excluded) is withstanding a CoC infused attack.
Law and Kid have been fighting BM for hours, and have forced BM to go beyond her limits. Law even tanked a thunder bagua from hybrid Kaido on screen, without much issues. Safe to say they certainly can.
Luffy certainly can. Pretty sure he tanked many off screen in R2 (if you count blocking a coated attack, he did a few on screen as well), before going down. In R3, we will see him doing so on screen as well.

Zoro, by scaling certainly can. If you count blocking, he did against a combo attack from Kaido and BM, albeit barely. But but it was a combo attack and much stronger than individual attacks from Kaido.
He tanked many other attacks, though I don't think they were conqueror's infused

Killer, maybe. He did tank a few attacks from the Yonkos, but I don't think they were conqueror's infused

But could Zoro or King withstand a CoC infused blow?
Unless there is some trick to King's insane defence, he 100% is. The dude is no selling attacks that damaged Kaido

Zoro is pretty tanky, so I am sure he would as well. He tanked multiple attacks from Kaido/BM, unless you think coated attacks are on an entirely different level from even named attacks, this should be enough proof he can

I don't see any YC1 or even YC2 characters getting one shot by conqueror's infused blows (unless of course they're some glass canon relying on abilities, like Cracker for eg)
 

BoyNextDoor

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2021
Messages
104
Reaction score
93
Age
24
Country
United Kingdom
didn't that novel about ace say that ace was eventually able to fight whitebeard for hours?
 

grey matter

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
4,683
Reaction score
6,064
Age
25
Gender
Male
Country
India
didn't that novel about ace say that ace was eventually able to fight whitebeard for hours?
I don't know about novel, but the dude was getting stomped by WB in sleep lol, in the flashbacks. But then again, this was the Ace of 2-3 years ago that stalemated Jinbe. He did get stronger over time, so maybe you're right

Do you remember when this had happened? Was it when he joined, or after he became YC2?
 

BoyNextDoor

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2021
Messages
104
Reaction score
93
Age
24
Country
United Kingdom
I don't know about novel, but the dude was getting stomped by WB in sleep lol, in the flashbacks. But then again, this was the Ace of 2-3 years ago that stalemated Jinbe. He did get stronger over time, so maybe you're right
yeah in the novel it goes into detail about aces time on the ship and how he eventually became a whitebeard pirate. he challenged whitebeard 99 times and on the 99th time he forced whitebeard to use his devil fruit. then their 100th battle took place on an island while their crews watched.

so yeah commanders 1 and 2 shouldn't be getting swatted by anyone tbh. luffy only got pwned in his first encounter with kaidou because the author loves doing that to luffy every single time he fights a new strong person. they body him easily to start off with and then he comes back and does better. happened with megallen, moria, lucci, crocodile, doflamingo, and even friggin caesar.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

ace wasn't second division commander yet though. he was just on the ship trying to find an opportunity to take whitebeard out. but he eventually started to get trained by thatch so the ace that fought whitebeard by the end was much much stronger than the ace that fought jimbei for 5 days
 

grey matter

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
4,683
Reaction score
6,064
Age
25
Gender
Male
Country
India
yeah in the novel it goes into detail about aces time on the ship and how he eventually became a whitebeard pirate. he challenged whitebeard 99 times and on the 99th time he forced whitebeard to use his devil fruit. then their 100th battle took place on an island while their crews watched.

so yeah commanders 1 and 2 shouldn't be getting swatted by anyone tbh. luffy only got pwned in his first encounter with kaidou because the author loves doing that to luffy every single time he fights a new strong person. they body him easily to start off with and then he comes back and does better. happened with megallen, moria, lucci, crocodile, doflamingo, and even friggin caesar.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

ace wasn't second division commander yet though. he was just on the ship trying to find an opportunity to take whitebeard out. but he eventually started to get trained by thatch so the ace that fought whitebeard by the end was much much stronger than the ace that fought jimbei for 5 days
I see. Thanks for the info man

Makes sense. Ace was strong enough to match attacks from Aoikiji.

We mostly got to see Ace taking Ls in the main series, so he tends to be downplayed. The novel seems to be making a solid case as to why he was so infamous, and why WB & Shanks considered him the next potential PK
--- Double Post Merged, ---

so yeah commanders 1 and 2 shouldn't be getting swatted by anyone tbh. luffy only got pwned in his first encounter with kaidou because the author loves doing that to luffy every single time he fights a new strong person. they body him easily to start off with and then he comes back and does better. happened with megallen, moria, lucci, crocodile, doflamingo, and even friggin caesar.
Exactly

And yes, I consider Luffy getting one shot absolutely an outlier. Like you said, typical Oda overhype of villain in beginning of the arc
Law tanked thunder bagua from hybrid Kaido without much issues and went onto fight BM for hours soon after, but G4 Luffy got one shot by thunder bagua from base Kaido? Yea, if this isn't an outlier, idk what is lol.

There is no way I consider even current Law as tanky as beginning of Wano G4 Luffy, who was brimming with armaments haki. Let alone leagues tankier (which he should be, in order for the two feats to make sense).

Still, against Crocodile and Caesar it kinda made sense.
Crocolide was tiers above Luffy back then. Luffy was playing around against Caesar (he even got scolded by Zoro for it), and got KO'd because he got cut off oxygen

But Lucci is another perfect example. Luffy, even without G2, did MUCH better against Lucci in the next round. While he got no diff'd in first round.
 

LaGOAT

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
2,565
Reaction score
3,018
Age
27
Country
United States
I don’t think beginning of wano luffy was an outlier It made sense. Wci luffy was barely YC1 and his fight against katakuri wasnt a legitimate win a lot of ppl agree on that at best we can say it was a tie. 2. Luffy used snakeman vs katakuri. katakuri was ragdolling boundman anyways. Kaido oneshotted him make sense in boundman form.

3. IMO I beleive in those 2 weeks before the raid everyone gotten stronger (oda hates training arcs anyways) so it make sense of how characters like law and the rest of supernovas can tank yonkos attacks

Luffy is yonko tier by hype/portrayal not by feats
 
Last edited:

grey matter

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
4,683
Reaction score
6,064
Age
25
Gender
Male
Country
India
I don’t think beginning of wano luffy was an outlier It made sense. Wci luffy was barely YC1 and his fight against katakuri wasnt a legitimate win a lot of ppl agree on that at best we can say it was a tie. 2. Luffy used snakeman vs katakuri. katakuri was ragdolling boundman anyways. Kaido oneshotted him make sense in boundman form.

3. IMO I beleive in those 2 weeks before the raid everyone gotten stronger (oda hates training arcs anyways) so it make sense of how characters like law and the rest of supernova can tank yonkos tanks
Nah, Kaido isn't one shotting YC2s either.

Where do you think Law is lol.
I mean, if someone borderline YC1 can be legitimately one shot by thunder bagua from base Kaido, while Law is pretty much fine after thunder bagua from hybrid Kaido. Then the dude is like what, leagues above YC1? Nah, that makes little sense

There is only so much you can go beyond YC1:
- YC1 + tier (something we use to describe people who are above YC1, but not quite admiral tier. People like Law, Kid and Marco falls here IMO. As will Zoro by the end of the arc)
- admiral tier
- Yonko tier

Of course, some variation will be there within each tier, based on abilities and stats; and even overall power level (like, Roger/prime WB are different class of Yonkos for eg).
But these are, broadly speaking, what we have above YC1

Where do you think Law fits in, if he can tank a stronger Thunder Bagua without much issues, while beginning of Wano Luffy (YC2-borderline YC1) can be one shot by a weaker Thunder Bagua?

For me, this is classic Oda overhype of arc villain, only to correct by the end of the arc when actual fights happen.
Happened with Rob Lucci, happening with Kaido now.
 

Pirate Queen

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
5,970
Reaction score
9,878
Country
United States
Law used a defensive move to block Thunder Bagua

Let's not pretend like he tanked it outright...
 

grey matter

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
4,683
Reaction score
6,064
Age
25
Gender
Male
Country
India
Law used a defensive move to block Thunder Bagua

Let's not pretend like he tanked it outright...
Can you point me where Law used a defensive move?

The dude got blitzed and hit by Thunder Bagua, the same way Luffy was. Only difference being Law tanked it and was fine afterwards, while Luffy got one shot

 

Pirate Queen

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
5,970
Reaction score
9,878
Country
United States
Can you point me where Law used a defensive move?

The dude got blitzed and hit by Thunder Bagua, the same way Luffy was. Only difference being Law tanked it and was fine afterwards, while Luffy got one shot

When did Luffy get one-shot by Thunder Bagua?

Are you talking about before everyone's powerups? Like beginning of Wano?
 

Sachsenhesse

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
2,471
Reaction score
2,807
Age
34
Gender
Male
Country
Germany
When did Luffy get one-shot by Thunder Bagua?

Are you talking about before everyone's powerups? Like beginning of Wano?
Which powerup got Law?
 

grey matter

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
4,683
Reaction score
6,064
Age
25
Gender
Male
Country
India
When did Luffy get one-shot by Thunder Bagua?

Are you talking about before everyone's powerups? Like beginning of Wano?
Yes, beginning of Wano Luffy.

He got one shot by thunder bagua from base Kaido

Thunder Bagua from hybrid Kaido got tanked without much issues by Law

Unless you mean to say that rooftop Law is leagues tankier than beginning of Wano Luffy (who's borderline YC1 tier), in G4 and brimming with armament haki , then this makes no sense.
Hence outlier

Awakening
Awakening doesn't help here. The dude got blitzed and hit, his DF doesn't even come into picture here
 

Pirate Queen

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
5,970
Reaction score
9,878
Country
United States
Yes, beginning of Wano Luffy.

He got one shot by thunder bagua from base Kaido

Thunder Bagua from hybrid Kaido got tanked without much issues by Law

Unless you mean to say that rooftop Law is leagues tankier than beginning of Wano Luffy in G4 and brimming with armament haki (who's borderline YC1 tier), then this makes no sense.
Hence outlier



Awakening doesn't help here. The dude got blitzed and hit, his DF doesn't even come into picture here
Zoro proved this chapter you can block with CoA without it being show so obviously as Hardening.

There are ways to explain it.

I do think the Luffy one-shot was an Outlier, however

You are right. It's doesn't makes sense for Law to still be fighting after a Hybrid Thunder Bagua
 

grey matter

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
4,683
Reaction score
6,064
Age
25
Gender
Male
Country
India
Zoro proved this chapter you can block with CoA without it being show so obviously as Hardening.

There are ways to explain it.

I do think the Luffy one-shot was an Outlier, however

You are right. It's doesn't makes sense for Law to still be fighting after a Hybrid Thunder Bagua
Oh, I don't doubt that Law used armament haki to defend himself. Point was that even if he's tankier than beginning of Wano G4 Luffy (which I highly doubt), he can't be THAT much tankier

I think the feat against Law is the accurate depiction of Kaido's attack power. Considering Law has been fighting BM for hours since then, and even fought her for some time solo (when Kid was dead weight cause of Hawkins), we should assume Law is perfectly capable of this feat.

The complete outlier for me is Kaido one shotting Luffy in base. Cause everything else points to characters less tankier than Luffy tanking hits from Kaido.
Typical Oda overhyping arc villains.
 

LaGOAT

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
2,565
Reaction score
3,018
Age
27
Country
United States
Nah, Kaido isn't one shotting YC2s either.

Where do you think Law is lol.
I mean, if someone borderline YC1 can be legitimately one shot by thunder bagua from base Kaido, while Law is pretty much fine after thunder bagua from hybrid Kaido. Then the dude is like what, leagues above YC1? Nah, that makes little sense

There is only so much you can go beyond YC1:
- YC1 + tier (something we use to describe people who are above YC1, but not quite admiral tier. People like Law, Kid and Marco falls here IMO. As will Zoro by the end of the arc)
- admiral tier
- Yonko tier

Of course, some variation will be there within each tier, based on abilities and stats; and even overall power level (like, Roger/prime WB are different class of Yonkos for eg).
But these are, broadly speaking, what we have above YC1

Where do you think Law fits in, if he can tank a stronger Thunder Bagua without much issues, while beginning of Wano Luffy (YC2-borderline YC1) can be one shot by a weaker Thunder Bagua?

For me, this is classic Oda overhype of arc villain, only to correct by the end of the arc when actual fights happen.
Happened with Rob Lucci, happening with Kaido now.
Lol why can’t he? Imo there is a gap between yc2 and YC1

example kaido can mid diff YC1
Kaido can low diff yc2 luffy imo was inbetween yc2-yc1 lvl at that time.

law currently is yc1+ lvl back at the beginning of wano was yc2 lvl like I said imo that 2 week TS was a huge boost for every1
 

AmitDS

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2016
Messages
911
Reaction score
1,511
Age
28
Country
Trinidad and Tobago
YC1 do not get one shot by Yonkou’s.
The Luffy that got one-shot by Kaido was hovering around YC1. Even if we rate him less than YC1 at this time, he won't be far off from that level. And even then, Oda made it a point to show Luffy was angered. We know from Katakuri that FS can't be used if the user is not calm and focussed so I guess this can be used as an explanation in a way. Later on, in Onigashima, Luffy actually used FS to dodge Thunder Bagua again, albeit, it still tagged his leg, but Kaido praised him for his growth for what it's worth.

Even Queen got back up from Big Mom’s casual lunch. It wasn’t that big
Let's not misrepresent things here. O-Lin, the amnesiac, hakiless child version of BM (not her actual Yonkou self) knocked Queen out of his Zoan transformation in 2 moves, which is basically what Oda uses to show Zoan defeats. With this in mind, the whole Kaido oneshot G4 Luffy thing doesn't look like an outlier as much imo, because if a severely nerfed Yonkou can fodderize a YC2 with relative ease, a Prime Yonkou should have no issue with a ~YC1 even if there is a healthy gap between YC2 and YC1.

What supports this notion further is when we look at BM vs. Marco. Yes, Marco was countering Prometheus because his ability allowed for it, but when BM was fed up she casually grabbed him by the neck and he was sweating and panicking. The only reason we did not actually see a domination here is because BM conveniently asked Perospero to finish him but conveniently again, the Minks showed up at the same time. The reason this encounter would not be a oneshot or 2-shot or whatever tho lol is probably due to his regenerative ability but the point should still stand that it would be a relative easy fight for BM/another Yonkou.

These things make sense when you consider everything together, but what muddies the water is the fact that Law and co. "tanked" Kaido's blows after Luffy got a sound beating from them. This could've made more sense if we knew of Law and cos.' training like we did with Luffy's and even Kid's (the jail I guess lol), but without that missing piece of context it looks inconsistent and messy imo.
 
Last edited:

zetsu banned

MH Senpai
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
3,979
Reaction score
3,705
Country
United States
These things make sense when you consider everything together, but what muddies the water is the fact that Law and co. "tanked" Kaido's blows after Luffy got a sound beating from them. This could've made more sense if we knew of Law and cos.' training like we did with Luffy's and even Kid's (the jail I guess lol), but without that missing piece of context it looks inconsistent and messy imo.
Suspension of disbelief for Kidd has the advantage of him only being a known quantity in combat to the reader since Wano. Law on the other hand has been with the crew most of the time since the timeskip, so we know very well what he's capable of and not capable of. And him just taking those shots from Kaidou just comes across as incredibly silly.

At this point Kaidou comes across as a character from a manga where the villain is actually allowed to kill characters, so it's incredibly bizarre that he literally has an on-screen kill-count of... one. Shooting Oden in the head after he boiled alive for an hour. Idc if he was drunk, Speed and Tama are a-okay even after being recently wrecked by Kaidou in an open field.
 

AmitDS

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2016
Messages
911
Reaction score
1,511
Age
28
Country
Trinidad and Tobago
At this point Kaidou comes across as a character from a manga where the villain is actually allowed to kill characters, so it's incredibly bizarre that he literally has an on-screen kill-count of... one. Shooting Oden in the head after he boiled alive for an hour. Idc if he was drunk, Speed and Tama are a-okay even after being recently wrecked by Kaidou in an open field.
You could kinda tell Oda wrote himself into a pickle with Kaido on many fronts xD His durability, his mercilessness, etc. was hyped through the roof but when it was time to show these things it crumbled cuz obviously he couldn't actually kill everyone and be infallible as he was touted to be lol
I just remember all the BM slander going around about everything she did/does (and even Shanks and his hand) but when Lord Kaido fumbles it's crickets xD Encountering Speed and Tama, Scabbards on the roof, even Kinemon AGAIN when he's half-dead on the floor... Where his kills at???? lol
 
Top