Outcome of the War between Marines and WB's Forces

With what event will the war end ?

  • Whitebeard will be killed

    Votes: 31 55.4%
  • Ace will be executed

    Votes: 3 5.4%
  • The Marines/World Government will be crushed

    Votes: 8 14.3%
  • The Pirates will escape after saving Ace

    Votes: 35 62.5%
  • Some other possible ending (please reply with it)

    Votes: 12 21.4%

  • Total voters
    56

Raysen_ht

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So here is the deal... i was having this discussion in the Lonelobo's review of chapter 554 (great review Btw... go check it out) and i decided to create this thread to hear everybody's opinion...

Imo WB has the advantage completely... in fact, i cant even see a way for the WG to win. They simply have to many enemies...check it out:

WB is the strongest off all, so anyone fighting him 1 x 1 is bound to loose

His division commanders are MEGA strong! Marco is admiral level and Josu seems preety close to it... the others we dont know, but im sure they are plenty strong

Reylegh will SURELY fight to protect Roger's son!! And he is Admiral level

The NW capitains will keep the VA busy, and they also seem strong! Oars Jr. is amazing (we all saw how strong Oz was in TB)

There seems to be some kind of traitor/spy inside the Marine Headquarters and he opened the gate for Luffi... who knows what else he might do

Luffi (Strong) is bringing Jimbei (Uber strong), Iva(Mega strong), The black and white dude (strong) and Croc (Uber strong). I know that Croc wants to fight against WB, but Iva said that he can keep him under control. besides, Croc is not stupid... if he sees that the WG is going to loose, he will help destroy them, and have his fight with WB latter...

Boa will betray the governament and fight for Luffy! Her strenght was even aknowleged by Sengoku

Kuma has his own agenda... he might betray the WG too (I know this one is a longshot, but he did save the SH... twice, and against governament orders). He is one of the strongest Shishi

BB is not there to fight agins WB forces... he might have made a diference in this war, if he had stayed. We dont know what his plan is though... it may be the thing that put the odds agaisnt WB, but it doesnt seem like he wants to help the WG.

Dragon and the Revolutinares must try to use this oportunity to destroy their worst enemy!! just think about it... the execution of Ace was anounced a few days ago. Everybody knew that WB would go to war against the WG for that. Dragon had plenty of time to come up with a plan, and to gather his strongest fighters. The Revolutionares are a whole Army!! it will be like attacking the Marines with another force as big (even if its not as strong, its surely super strong) as the one WB brought.

There is another Yonkou who is not doing anything at the moment (Shanks and Kaidou are fighting...) and he/she might try to use this opportunity to destroy the loosing side of the WG x WB war

Thats it... What do you guys think??
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BlackHair

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

WB needs to fall. The current King needs to be replaced bw a new one, Luffy. With fall I dont mean death. But he wont be much of a Yonko anymore; means his will be weaker so his fleet. Also by Luffy replacing WB, I dont mean it to happen in the current arc, just the his seat is for Luffy. And only now can be WBs throne taken away.

As for Dragon, his enemy is the World Goverment formed by over 170 Nations. So he has to fight each Nation one by one to break their alliance which is the World Goverment. So I dont think destroying the holyland would lead the war to his victory. Well thats at least the image I have now, could be wrong as well.

As for the current people: Garp Sengoku 3 Admirals Flamingo Moria and Mwk vs WB Jozu Marco Jimbei Luffy. As for the other I cant count them in atm.

Ace will be rescued but WB will fall (not death)! < My Prediction.
 

kkck

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

I think you are underestimating the VA. In terms of strength they should be second only to the admirals. garp is strong, he might even be at the admiral level or above. Sengoku is a wild card, who knows how strong the guy really is lol.

I also disagree on the part about luffy being "strong". That depends on who exactly you are comparing him with. I honestly doubt he could take any of the shichibukai there (even moria if the guy fights seriously). IMHO the VA should also be MILES above luffy. All in all as nyon and ovankov said, luffy just do not have the level to deal with the worlds strong guys. At best he might be able to take the mid level dudes there and even that would be hard. All in all luffy is a measly supernova a world class ROOKIE.
 

Raysen_ht

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

WB needs to fall. The current King needs to be replaced bw a new one, Luffy. With fall I dont mean death. But he wont be much of a Yonko anymore; means his will be weaker so his fleet. Also by Luffy replacing WB, I dont mean it to happen in the current arc, just the his seat is for Luffy. And only now can be WBs throne taken away.
WB may die, WB forces will defenetly be weakened, but the WB pirates + allies will win the war against the MH in the end! Thats my point... maybe i should change the title of the thread to "WB allience will win this war"...

As for Dragon, his enemy is the World Goverment formed by over 170 Nations. So he has to fight each Nation one by one to break their alliance which is the World Goverment. So I dont think destroying the holyland would lead the war to his victory. Well thats at least the image I have now, could be wrong as well.
Even if the Revolutionares won't win the war against the WG with this, they will take out a MAJOR part of the governament's power if they destroy the Marines! That could be the decisive step to dethrone the WG in the overall war that Dragon is having against them...
The fact is, He CAN'T let the oportunity to destroy such a big enemy slip by!!

As for the current people: Garp Sengoku 3 Admirals Flamingo Moria and Mwk vs WB Jozu Marco Jimbei Luffy. As for the other I cant count them in atm.

Ace will be rescued but WB will fall (not death)! < My Prediction.
Cmon... do you really think that Reylegh will let the son of his greatest friend, his capitain, of the one who trusted him to be his right man, die without even trying to save him?!? That doesn't fit with what we know about him... he has honor, and he is still loyal to Roger!!

And Boa?! She won't fight against Luffi!! That's for sure!

What about Iva?! He/She is a commander of the revolutionaries army!! Must be at top level (cant really count Maggelan victory... he is in a league of his own... 1 hit KOed all the BB pirates)!!

About Dragon i have already answeared

Do you really expect the 4th Yonkou to sit by and watch while this world changing events are happening??

I agree that Ace will be saved

I think you are underestimating the VA. In terms of strength they should be second only to the admirals. garp is strong, he might even be at the admiral level or above. Sengoku is a wild card, who knows how strong the guy really is lol.
I'm not underestimating the VA... The NW capitains have to be the strongest pirates after the Yonkou, and i just said that they could keep the VA busy! But in reallity, I think that if there are a few more capitains than VA, they might defeat them! They will, at least, take out some of them.

Garp is strong as hell but so is Reylegh. And WB is the strongest of all (Oda's words not mine), so even if Sengoku is strong he can be defeated by WB!

I also disagree on the part about luffy being "strong". That depends on who exactly you are comparing him with. I honestly doubt he could take any of the shichibukai there (even moria if the guy fights seriously). IMHO the VA should also be MILES above luffy. All in all as nyon and ovankov said, luffy just do not have the level to deal with the worlds strong guys. At best he might be able to take the mid level dudes there and even that would be hard. All in all luffy is a measly supernova a world class ROOKIE.
I was comparing Luffi with the other guys on his ship right now... He is not a waste of space as most of the people there... He is weaker than Jimbei/Croc/Iva, maybe a bit stronger or a bit weaker than the "black and white dude" (who's name i cant remember)! I agree with you, i doubt that Luffi can take any of the Shishi or the VA or the NW capitains as he is right now. He may be able to fight a couple of Rear admirals, but thats it.
 
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kkck

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

3 Admirals plus 9 VA + rear admirals(they should be the last of the marines capable of making a difference in the war although not by much) + whatever random marine with too much strength for his rank. The last group would basically cover smoker and hina. Smoker has the power of logia, he should be quite capable of making a difference and hina was shown to be able to take mr 2 easily, she should be quite strong. Odds are there are more marines like that. The shichibukai vary is strength but mihawk is more than easily admiral level, kuma can just bitchslap people into oblivion, hancock is kinda a wild card but she should be one of the strongest shichibukai IMO. Moria is not to be taken lightly. The guy never really fought luffy head on and when he did he completely owned him. He should be above most NW captains IMO. Flamingo is another wildcard but I doubt he is any weaker than the rest.. The pacifista should also play a part in this war. I really doubt the WG will fail to have a bunch of those around and each of them is bound to be as strong as someone between mid and high tier. The final wild card should be sengoku. The guy should be insanely strong IMO.

The WB pirates side has WB, marco and josu. Those are the strongest on that side IMO. Then there are other 12 division captains who should be around VA level. The WB pirates should also have random strong members just as the marines though(equivalents to smoker and hina). The new world captains and crews should also be like that, a bunch of strong ones plus a few wild cards.

So basically we have:
Sengoku
3 Admirals
9 Vice admirals
rear admirals
Random strong marines
Shichibukai
Pacifista(this are extremely important IMO because they are extremely powerful and to some extent expendable)
+

Whitebeard
Marco, josu
12 remaining division commanders
Random strong WB pirates
NW captains + main strong crewmembers
NW pirate random strong members

Then we have crocodile, jimbei, luffy, ivankov and inazuma plus the rest who could include a few random strong dudes. Jimbei will either fight alongside WB or go along with luffy to rescue ace. Crocodile will likely be controlled by ivankov but he is by no means on WB side and will take a go at the first chance he's got. Ivankov should be quite strong and capable of making a difference IMO but will most likely not take direct fighting in the war. Inazuma was affected by magellans poison and is still recovering as far as we know so the guy will probably not take a part at all.

The last factor to consider is BB. He takes no side but his own but it stands to logic that he is mostly WB enemy. He should have something to gain from weakening the WG though. His crew is not all that big of a deal but BB himself should be considered as dangerous as an admiral or even WB himself. I just remembered shiryu joined his crew and he should be strong even when compared to strong dudes around. Probably whatever he does will determine the outcome of the war.... IMHO what he is looking for in ID is either a specific prisoner or to release the level six prisoners to take them to the war.

All in all, as things stand now, the WG and WB pirates are kinda even IMO. It is the unaccounted things which will decide the outcome of the war(such as BB or luffy freeing ace rather than fighting directly).
 

Raysen_ht

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

@kkck
Completely agree!! You described beatifully how things stand right now!!
I even said in my original post that BB's plan could be the thing that put the odds against WB (although it could also be the thing that buries the Marines for good... less likely but very possible)
The only mistake you made was to put all the Shishi on the WG side... Boa is defenetly fighting to save luffi's brother!! And she is one of the big players!

And i completely agree that "its unaccounted things that will decide the outcome of the war", i just think that these unaccounted things are overwhelmingly in WB's favour.. Check it:

...Reylegh (MAJOR allie)
...Dragon and the Revolutionares (a whole new (Uber strong) army to attack the Marines)
...Spy/Traitor that opened the Gates of Justice (He could spoil the strategie of the Marines)
...Luffi freeing Ace instead of fighting directly
...Kuma's possible treason (small chance)
...30% chance of BB plan be against the marines
...The 4th Yonkou (will help destroy the loosing side)

For the WG:
...70% chance of BB plan beeing against WB
...If there are hundreds of Pacifistas
...The 4th Yonkou (will help destroy the loosing side)
...50% chance that Iva will loose control over Croco and he will switch sides (even if he does, there are still enough strong fighters to counter him... especially if Luffi tell people what his weakness is)

Wouldn't you agree that the odds are in WB's favour?

And, IMHO, if Dragon attacks its game over! The marines wouldnt be able to couter WB allience + the revolutionary army
 
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kkck

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

Dragon attacking is kinda unlikely though. In a way it is a good chance to hurt the WG but I have my doubts about the WG not having considered that. Also, dragon is fighting his own wars elsewhere so even if he appears, I doubt he will have an army behind him. Considering this war will be fought and won by a relatively small amount of fighters, dragon could make a big difference though.

I did not consider silver in my analisis but whether he will appear has yet to be decided. Considering he is a retired pirate I would find it weird that he decides to take part in this fight. Also, why would he side with WB? He was rogers crewmate and Wb enemy and there is no way for him to know that luffy will be there. He might take an interest in saving his nakema's son but we have no idea if he actually knows about it. Considering roger disbanded his crew, it is extremely likely he did not know anything.

The number of pacifista will also make a huge difference. Even if all the unaccounted things against the WG occur, a number of pacifista could make up for it. Just 20 pacifista could still keep things in balanced IMO.

Another thing I would find unlikely is that the yonkou take part in this fight. Even if they do take part, the most likely outcome is that they side against WB in an attempt to take his territory and become the PK. I would think the appearance of a yonkou other than shanks would mean mostly bad news for WB.

As for BB, whatever he does will most likely not help anyone but I do feel the one on the losing side from all this will be mostly WB. If BB does free ID prisoners and takes them to war, odds are most of them will be going against WB.

Then there is also the chance of magellan coming after luffy. The guy could have easily followed them considering there were several warships around ID. His appearance alone could change the balance in the favor of the WG. He could decimate large numbers of enemies instantly....

I guess it is kinda subjective and I do think ace will be ultimately rescued but IMHO WB having the advantage is highly debatable. I would think that more things can go wrong for him than for the WG.
 

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

the war can go anyway and there are too many strong player there to do the math.

i think BB is going to do something major like opening a black hole under the war play ground that will suck everyone. i think he is about caos and about changing the balance in the world and what is a better chance for that then taking most of the major players in one go, and clearing the stage for himself and for the new era...
 

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

I don't think there will be any "winner" in this war. I think both sides will suffer so many loses, neither could be considered the winner.

I am starting to like the theory of Blackbeard killing Whitebeard. But only after Whitebeard's crew has destroyed many marines. In this way, neither side truly wins, even with Whitebeard dying.
 

RichardMNixon

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

I also disagree on the part about luffy being "strong". That depends on who exactly you are comparing him with. I honestly doubt he could take any of the shichibukai there (even moria if the guy fights seriously). IMHO the VA should also be MILES above luffy. All in all as nyon and ovankov said, luffy just do not have the level to deal with the worlds strong guys. At best he might be able to take the mid level dudes there and even that would be hard. All in all luffy is a measly supernova a world class ROOKIE.
Oh, so Moria was just fooling around when the Straw Hat's destroyed everything he had worked so hard towards? After Oz and everything else, Luffy beat Moria in a one on one in which Moria also had 1000 shadows at his disposal. Luffy is better than he is.

I think the average VA is on the same level as Lucci; they seemed pretty reverent of him during the Buster Call. That said, there are a few VAs that would be out of his league (Garp and any other VA on the docket for promotion), and fighting a VA would probably be the extent of his action in the war; he's not up for fighting several of them. Smoker seems a more likely opponent though, and I think he's as strong or stronger than a typical VA.
 

Bo Ashi

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

If Rayleight appears, he'll be joining the party at the very end, popping up from the sea with Thousand Sunny, saving the day. I don't see how he could get there othervise.

I don't think Sengoku is much of a fighter really... of course he's strong, since he was fighting Whitebeard back in the days. But i think he'll rely on the admirals and vice admirals at first, and acts more of a leader and commander for the Marine side. I don't think he has a devilfruit or something, he just relies on his Haki and maybe a weapon. He and his goat will be the ones guarding Ace to the very end. Because that goat has to be something special, like a secret Vegapunk weapon or something. Would be awesome of it turned out to be one of the ancient weapons, though i doubt it, more like Funkfreed or the gun Mr 4 had back in Arabasta. Just a crazyass weapon.
 

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

You're forgetting Smoker. That's all I wanted to say...

And Sengoku too I guess.

Also:
  • Rayleigh probably won't turn up. He's not exactly an idiot who thinks himself to be a one man army and in his prime.
  • Boa may not betray. Just because Boa may know Luffy has appeared does not mean she will betray. I mean, she helped Luffy sneak into Impel Down to save Ace, and Ace is right behind her and she's yet to do anything. Despite appearances she is fearful of the WG given her past and dedication to the country she leads.
  • Kuma may not betray. He's about as predictable as an earthquake.
  • Spy/Traitor: yeah I'm already curious about this, could be Papagg for all we know though and not really an asset.
  • Blackbeard: won't appear. Should be busy in Impel Down, we should next see him with Magellan defeated and an anonymous prisoner in his grasp.
  • Dragon: won't appear? Sure it's a good chance, but it's also a good chance to revolutionise countries the marines have taken forces from to fight Whitebeard.

Few other things which I'm sure I've said before such as underestimating the Shichibukai, vice admirals, Garp/Smoker and Sengoku's true power, but meh.

The main reason I feel Whitebeard will lose is plot, not how their strength matches. I mean, honestly I can't see anyone in the marines who can kill Whitebeard, but at the same time Whitebeard winning against the WG is not too good for plot. Why would pirates be illegal if the WG was crushed?

...why am I writing this? I should be finishing my review...maybe...
 

LordZet

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

Well, if WB loses the marines will gain an enormous amount of power and fishmen island would go straight to hell when all the slavers and pirates rush back there now that WB is gone.
 

Fox666

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

Yeah, plot wins. If WB is down, them Fishmen Island arc would be a much more interesting saga. Also, what about Ace? If WB wins, them everybody are happy... and happy.
 

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

Well, I never thought about Raleigh. It is possible, but I highly doubt it. I'd think the possibility of Shanks appearing would be more likely.

I agree with Bittman. Here's my take. Whitebeard will put up an amazing fight, but as we all know, he is not entirely well. He was seen on a life-support system and he is undoubtedly old. But what I want to say is that Whitebeard and Co. will continue to match the Marines. And even if Whitebeard does gain a good advantage, there is still one major problem that can potentially cause his downfall. That is Blackbeard. I believe that Blackbeard will not let this great opportunity pass and not take advantage of it. He's already thrown away his title as a Shichibukai. He will most likely wait until both sides have received casualties, and take down Whitebeard and the Marines himself. I'm sure the strongest will survive, barely, but that whole establishment of the World Government will be destroyed. This way, Blackbeard will make himself known to the whole world as they watch him defeat the Marines and Whitebeard. So for Blackbeard to become more popular, Whitebeard - The most powerful man in the world needs to fall. I'd prefer it if he'd die actually. The plot will progress, and Ace will be independent once more.
 

chess4

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

Well, I never thought about Raleigh. It is possible, but I highly doubt it. I'd think the possibility of Shanks appearing would be more likely.

I agree with Bittman. Here's my take. Whitebeard will put up an amazing fight, but as we all know, he is not entirely well. He was seen on a life-support system and he is undoubtedly old. But what I want to say is that Whitebeard and Co. will continue to match the Marines. And even if Whitebeard does gain a good advantage, there is still one major problem that can potentially cause his downfall. That is Blackbeard. I believe that Blackbeard will not let this great opportunity pass and not take advantage of it. He's already thrown away his title as a Shichibukai. He will most likely wait until both sides have received casualties, and take down Whitebeard and the Marines himself. I'm sure the strongest will survive, barely, but that whole establishment of the World Government will be destroyed. This way, Blackbeard will make himself known to the whole world as they watch him defeat the Marines and Whitebeard. So for Blackbeard to become more popular, Whitebeard - The most powerful man in the world needs to fall. I'd prefer it if he'd die actually. The plot will progress, and Ace will be independent once more.

yes i think whitebeard will die also. forgot the chapter but BB said that he would do something to shake the world to its core and killing WB may very well do it. if whitebeard is killed ace will not be independent, he will either continue sailing with the Whitebeards or join the strawhats.

ace will be saved but the Whitebeards will pay a huge price for his freedom.
 

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

Let's see the forces.

Whitebeard:
- Marco
- Jozu
- Oars Jr. (incapicitated, death [unconfirmed])
- Several New World pirates and their crews

World Government
- 5 of the seven Shichibukai
- All 3 Admirals
- Hundreds if not thousands of Marines

Considering how the Admirals and Shichibukai were matched by Jozu and Marco, as well as Whitebeard having a drastically much more powerful military force, I would say he will win the win. He himself is a freaking God for crying out loud! Sengoku said himself that this man alone had the power to destroy the world.
 

kkck

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

Shanks just got into a fight with kaido recently though. Is it possible he can fight another yonkou and then inmediatle head of to fight the WG alongside WB? Not to mention WB and shanks are in theory enemies and rivals.
 

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

There is no way wb will win. as said earlier, if wb defeats the WG here, the story will be completely messed up.
 

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Re: WB will win this war!! Here is why

World Government
- 5 of the seven Shichibukai
- All 3 Admirals
- Hundreds if not thousands of Marines
at least until Luffy and/or some other super power (Dragon/Rayleigh) show up.
 
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