Discussion People who can beat peak Mel

[MrSchmitty7]

uh that's again another refutation of mine earlier "that was merely the activation NOT its mechanics". I can go here and say he needs a conductor to operate ON but in face value he just manipulates darkness around with without the need of his sword.

Again that doesn't make sense though. If the sword was just a conductor then ON wouldn't have been shut off when it melted. Also, when ON is attacked the vortex around Zeldris actually makes a type of explosion, yet for some reason ON just silently disappeared with Mael. Something different happened and Nakaba didn't just draw the sword melting for no reason.

that's the point?? Escanor literally implied that ON cannot stop his attack which the mechanic of it using high rotational darkness aorund him. Nor it was said he deactivated ON via melting his sword. which u need to explain where he stated that.

Stopping ON of saying ON doesnt work deosnt mean deactivated it. Escanor stopped DK's magic by knocking Zel out. That doesn't mean he deactivated it. Also it was shown that the sword plays a role in ON. Again the above paragraph I wrote in this things

ON is darkness same as cocoon of darkness. That's your burden of proof to prove your claim. Darkness and is density depends on how powerful the person is and ludo and mael is the prime example dispelling darkness with their power due to their power surpasses that of darkness. oh god. here we go again, darkness cannot be physical attack unless the user initiates the whole idea of transforming something to physical substance. Darkness being used as magic is clearly the best example of meliodas using his demonic power vs galand, estarossa overcomin cruel sun and saying as far as magic goes he has the upper hand in magic, and we have meliodas here who overpowered DKs magic with his darkness. To identify an attack whether its physical or magical u need to analyze whether it has physical substances. Zeldris in this case DID NOT use any special trait except spinning the darkness around him. So prove all of those claims you're claiming with facts rathr than coming at me with headcanon. The user IS WHAT MAKES the darkness different than the other via how powerful they are, ON is merely a technique which he manipulates darkness around him nothing special about that.

1. Calling ON darkness the same as cocoon darkness doesn't make sense. Cocoon darkness is much stronger because it's reinforced by the commandments, making one magically boosted by an outside source in nature and the other physical according to you. As for the whole middle paragraph what? No one cares if the darkness spinning around Zeldris is magical or physical, what we care about is if his darkness got a boost in power- which it pretty much did as Cusack notes that it's basically impossible to walk through the force generated by the spinning of the darkness. If the darkness can make this force then it has this force. He has said nothing about his darkness outside of ON, which is also capable of being blocked by Ludoshel.

So darkness is DKs magic? if so pleae prove it. You're clearly losing to me at this points with this unbacked claims you're making.

No that had nothing to do with the spells Merlin made.... He coated it in darkness because he was getting ready to stand up and fight again. I was just describing the scene to you. I never said he used darkness to cut through merlins spells.

Why is aura in this??????? it's about the fucking feat and how it happened and how it was explained. We don't know how much sunshiinee rediates escanor?? oh yeah we do, based off escanor's own explanation the power of the grace itself being too explosive where ON cannot stop mael's attacks. Alright and how does mean anything?? if mael has OVERALL magic power above him his attacks will shit on Escanor with your concession that mael is way superior based off feats by feats. If mael use greatest Sun that's literaly over for him and not only that i already told the other person that escano's base power and mael's base power has a larger gap than galland and escanor mid day which galand who cut tip top of two mountains couldn't cut escanor's arm. So mael here who DISPELLED the true night himself and escanor couldn't overcome AND struggled to put down ON meanwhile we have escanor here who explained it to us that ON cannot stop his attacks whether ON is at defense or offense.

Saying how something works doesn't say how much power is put into it... "Explosive power" literally gives nothing to compare to. Escanor's heat varies depending on how much he willingly outputs. Also ON can't stop Mael's attacks because the sword was melted, not because he melted ON. Also no, having stronger magic than someone doesn't make you better than them. Gloxinia had stronger magic than Meliodas, but still lost to him because guess what? Mel was stronger in other areas.

Again, they said ON won't stop Mael's attacks. They never said Mael deactivated it. Zel's magic can't stop Mael's attacks either, does that mean he deactivated the DK's power? No, it means he found a way around it.

his sword being melted was drawn, ok. Then what? was there statement on how he deactivated it??? The fact i refuted the whole mechanic of ON before this rebuttal, i don't need to reiterate what i had said.

You know it's kinda nice how you have to call yourself right in order to feel accomplished in a debate. I sometimes wonder if you're actually 18 or 13. But anyway back to the Escanor thing once again, Escanor does not emit a constant level of heat. He has some control over it. We saw this in vampires of edinburg. He chose to emit more heat after Izraf angered him. Mael does the same thing. Which is why the sword didn't melt during the first part of the fight even though he touched it. He wasn't emitting enough heat originally. The reason we cannot compare Mael's heat and Escanor's heat for this is because we have no idea how much heat both are choosing to emit. We have no standard to draw them too.

of course i did and how does that refute my point? Not at all the presenting feat shows that until later on. It won't be a headcanon but rather contradiction. you cannot have headcanon and contradiction in the same sentence. Headcanon is like me saying Zeldris own gravitational pull is the same as that of a blackhole, contradicting that via feat where people could resist it and could hold off against it.

In order for there to be a contradiction, evidence has to have been there in the first place. You made a claim when there was zero evidence, that's the point.... And if we assume that there was evidence and you just made a contradiction then that just means you're awful at examining this manga. Literally everytime you respond to this specific thing you just bury yourself deeper and it really just punches holes in your argument when you try to sound like you know what you're talking about

 

[M3J]

Mael's magical feats are above without a doubt, but I don't believe it's sufficient.
The use of the Grace is far better, but the power output is not.

But how do you know he's not holding back?

 

[Seven777]

Gonna add Zeldris to my list. With the right motivation and determination Zeldris would be able to overcome his brother, despite Mel's overall superiority. Performing as well as he did against Meliodas' equal even with ON and the DKs magic bypassed was incredibly impressive.

 

[Kay3795]

Gonna add Zeldris to my list. With the right motivation and determination Zeldris would be able to overcome his brother, despite Mel's overall superiority. Performing as well as he did against Meliodas' equal even with ON and the DKs magic bypassed was incredibly impressive.

Zeldris himself completely disagrees with you.

Meliodas is in a class of his own.

 

[Seven777]

Zeldris himself completely disagrees with you.

Meliodas is in a class of his own.

No, he really doesnt, which is why until Meliodas offered him Gelda he was still dead set on becoming Demon King, and willingly challenged Meliodas for the position.
As for Meliodas being in a class of his own, not really. Meliodas' class is Ludo, Mael and Elizabeth's class. Zeldris hung pretty well with Mael, a character that is sitting comfortably in Meliodas' class, possibly in a class above depending on how long its been since noon past.

 

[ubw178]

No, he really doesnt, which is why until Meliodas offered him Gelda he was still dead set on becoming Demon King, and willingly challenged Meliodas for the position.
As for Meliodas being in a class of his own, not really. Meliodas' class is Ludo, Mael and Elizabeth's class. Zeldris hung pretty well with Mael, a character that is sitting comfortably in Meliodas' class, possibly in a class above depending on how long its been since noon past.

He offered him Gelda because he needed Zel to help him with the commandments. Mel clearly overpowered Zeldris and Estarossa easily.
He could've killed them easily but they are his brothers after all

 

[Seven777]

He offered him Gelda because he needed Zel to help him with the commandments. Mel clearly overpowered Zeldris and Estarossa easily.
He could've killed them easily but they are his brothers after all

So? I didnt say Meliodas offering Gelda meant anything.
As for Mel overpowering Zeldris and Estarossa, meh, that was just first mark Zeldris, 61k. Second mark Zeldris was the one who could keep up with Mael.

 

[Crimson Ice]

uh not when the explanation OF HOW mael overpowered ON itself. So either you're going off with a headcanon roue or just spouting another thing. I already explained what mael did and how the grace did it. Otherwise your argument holds no value at all to counter the proper explanation of the scene.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 2, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 2, 2019 ---

Escanor forcefully shut down 'Demon King' and Full React, the translation but said Sunshine stopped those attacks from working on MAEL, not the same as getting Zeldris to shut down his abilities. And no, even with that my statement still stands. Escanor was going to stomp Zeldris in a physical fight, Mael did not.

 

[Tristan]

Prime Meliodas forced Mael to retreat in the Heavenly realm when he was still known as the angel of death. Nothing was preventing Mael to go all out against Meliodas since he had already been jealous of the latter because of Elizabeth at that time.
Prime Meliodas > Mael of the Sun >>> the REST. Only the DK & SD could stomp Prime Meliodas ... and that's IF and ONLY if we exclude his OG Magic power.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

Prime Meliodas forced Mael to retreat in the Heavenly realm when he was still known as the angel of death. Nothing was preventing Mael to go all out against Meliodas since he had already been jealous of the latter because of Elizabeth at that time.
Prime Meliodas > Mael of the Sun >>> the REST. Only the DK & SD could stomp Prime Meliodas ... and that's IF and ONLY if we exclude his OG Magic power.

What time was it when Mel and Mael fought?

 

[Tristan]

What time was it when Mel and Mael fought?

Doesn't matter when Meliodas wasn't even trying there, and was only using his first Demon mark!! Oh, and let's not forget that Meliodas at that moment was no longer "the Greatest Evil" he used to be before meeting Elizabeth, so there's a big chance that he was holding back so as not to hurt him.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

Doesn't matter when Meliodas wasn't even trying there, and was only using his first Demon mark!! Oh, and let's not forget that Meliodas at that moment was no longer "the Greatest Evil" he used to be before meeting Elizabeth, so there's a big chance that he was holding back so as not to hurt him.

How do you know that though? We only saw one part of the fight. The rest is left out. It’s unfair to base one scene as the entire fight

 

[Tristan]

How do you know that though? We only saw one part of the fight. The rest is left out. It’s unfair to base one scene as the entire fight

It was pretty clear that Prime Mel was hyped more than Mael of the Sun in that chapter!

 

[MrSchmitty7]

It was pretty clear that Prime Mel was hyped more than Mael of the Sun in there!

“Hype” in my opinion isn’t an argument. It’s more of a feeling. The sinner was hyped was he not?

 

[Tristan]

“Hype” in my opinion isn’t an argument. It’s more of a feeling. The sinner was hyped was he not?

The Sinner isn't as relevant as Meliodas, is he?

 

[MrSchmitty7]

The Sinner isn't as relevant as Meliodas, is he?

He was more relevant than Ludoshel but still couldn’t stop him. Plus where was it stated that relevance means your stronger? By this logic Elizabeth is stronger than Ludoshel and Mael

 

[Tristan]

He was more relevant than Ludoshel but still couldn’t stop him. Plus where was it stated that relevance means your stronger? By this logic Elizabeth is stronger than Ludoshel and Mael

Well, not necessarily, but relevance DOES indeed affect the hyped individual A LOT. As for Elizabeth, who knows? She could end up being more powerful than both in the few next chapters after being released from that curse!

 

[T25]

Plus where was it stated that relevance means your stronger? By this logic Elizabeth is stronger than Ludoshel and Mael

(Potentially) poor example

 

[ubw178]

Mael retreating from Meliodas means nothing. The whole scene wasn't to show the fight between each clan's strongest. It was all about Bellion and why he hates Meliodas.
It starts with him killing weak angels, dreaming to be one of the commandments, then Mael shows up and Bellion is overwhelmed until Meliodas arrived.
Basically the man he looked up to stole his fight, called him irrelevant and pushed back the strong opponent he couldn't even scratch.
The scene shows how Mel damaged Bellion's pride and that's why he hates him. He planned to show him that he was worthy to be one of the commandments yet everything fell apart. It was important for his character development.

I don't understand why everyone starts making theories about who is stronger Mel or Mael and whether it was post noon etc... It's Bellion's flashback and it's all about him.

Again I have to explain it... Don't make assumptions based on that flashback. It's irrelevant.

 

[OtakuFreak]

Yeah, I have to agree with @Seven777 when he's suggesting Zeldris could defeat Prime Meliodas.

Meliodas has no feats yet which suggests he has comparable or equivalent physical strength to ''The One'' which was able to physically overwhelm ON. As a result, Meliodas would be unable to overcome or break through ON with his strength. He'd be able to physically resist it potentially, but getting through it is a definite ''no'' for the time being.

As for magic, don't even come @ me with the ''OG magic'' argument when it's an unknown factor and any other magic attack would be useless against Zeldris with the ''Demon King'' active. Plus, we have no idea how this ''OG magic'' would react against ON.

Zeldris could defeat Prime Meliodas if given the correct conditions (i.e enclosed room, can actually activate ON etc) and even if he couldn't, Meliodas ain't defeating his otouto-san easily (high diff for him)

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2019 ---