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Discussion Power Level Comparision (Schools)

-Ken-

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What school do you think will win? Feel free to make your own line-up, or used line-up from the manga. This include

Shitenhouji
Singles 3: Shiraishi
Doubles 2: Konjiki-Hitouji
Singles 2: Gin
Doubles 1: Kenya or Chitose-Zaizen
Singles 1: Kintarou

Singles 3: Kintarou
Doubles 2: Kenya-Gin
Singles 2: Chitose
Doubles 1: ???
Singles 1: ???

Hyoutei
Singles 3: Kabaji
Doubles 2: Yuushi-Mukahi
Singles 2: Jirou
Doubles 1: Shishido-Ootori
Singles 1: Atobe

Singles 3: Yuushi
Doubles 2: Hiyoshi-Mukahi
Singles 2: Kabaji
Doubles 1: Shishido-Ootori
Singles 1: Atobe




[mod=Kaoz]This thread is now for general comparisions between schools.[/mod]
 
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LetalHawk

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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

Shitenhouji, hands down. kintarou, Chitose, Gin and Shiraishi win their matches. Hyoutei gets eliminated.
 

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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

I agree Shitenhouji have a huge lead, however, with the perfect lineup hyoutei could win.

Let's assume Shitenhouji uses the same lineup than against seigaku. Hyotei have good chances if

S3: Atobe vs Shirashi - (Atobe could win)
D2: Koharu Konjiki / Yuuju Hitouji vs Gakuto/Oshitari (come on if Momo/Kaidu won this, gakuto/oshitari can too, Wakashi/Oshitari is another option)
S2: Kabaji vs Gin (Classic mirror, though kabaji never won a asingles match so far)
D1: Chitose / Zaizen vs Shishido /Chotaro (Imo clear win for hyotei)
S3: Kintarou vs Jirou (Hyotei hopefully defines the mach before this of course)

So clearly shitenhouji have an advantage, but with the right/wrong lineup Hyotei could pull ahead.

So the scenario where Atobe beats shirashi, then Oshitari/X beats Konjiki/Hitouji and then shishido / Chotaro beats chitose / Zaizen, it's not crazy at all, and you can always have the first singles win ever in the history of kabaji
 
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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

This probably should have been the Tier Ranking thread but its a good question nonetheless. D'you mind if we compare other teams aswell here Ken?
Going by the tier as well, this isnt totally in Shitenhouji's favour. Hyotei have a chance.

God

Tezuka
TnK!Ryoma

Top

Yukimura
Oni
Sanada
Ryoma
Irie

Upper High

Niou
Tooyama
Akutsu
Atobe
Shiraishi
Fuji S.

High

Mouri
Yamato
Chitose
Tachibana

Lower High

Inui
Mitsuya
Yanagi
Kite
Momoshiro

Upper Mid

Yagyuu
Kaidoh
Kirihara
Nakagauchi

Mid

Ishida G.
Kawamura
Miyako
Matsudaira
Krauser
Oshitari Y.
Hirakoba
Marui

Lower Mid

Akutagawa
Oshitari K.
Jackal
Hiyoshi

Low

Tanishi
Kikumaru
Chinen
Ibu
Kamio
Sengoku
Kai
Amane
Shishido
Sakata

Bottom

Ootori
Mukahi
Oishi
Kurobane
Mizuki
Fuji Y.

Not yet tiered

Kabaji
Zaizen
Washio
Suzuki
Takei
Date
Ban
Hara
Taira
Akiba
Yuuho
Yuuma
Byoudouin
Tanegashima
Duke
Ryoga
Ohmagari
Kimijima
Tohno
Ochi
Kaji
Tokugawa
Fuwa


S3 Chitose Senri VS Oshitari Yushi 6-3
D2 Konjiki Koharu/Hitouji Yuuji VS Akutagawa Jirou/Hiyoshi Wakashi 3-6
S2 Shiraishi Kuranosuke VS Kabaji Munehiro 6-3/6-2
D1 Zaizen Hikaru/Oshitari Kenya VS Shishido Ryo/Ootori Choutarou 3-6
S1 Tooyama Kintaro VS Atobe Keigo 7-5
Reserve Ishida Gin VS Mukahi Gakuto 6-1

I think this could be a possible line-up but its not all Shitenhouji although I do think they will win.
 

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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

There is no way Shishido and Chotaro would win against Chitose alone, let alone Zaizen as well. That falls way more in favor of Shitenhouji.
 

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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

Shitenhouji, hands down. kintarou, Chitose, Gin and Shiraishi win their matches. Hyoutei gets eliminated.
Chitose victory aren't assure. In fact, I'm sure he'll certainly lose to Kabaji if Kabaji can copy Saiki, except if it rain.

This probably should have been the Tier Ranking thread but its a good question nonetheless. D'you mind if we compare other teams aswell here Ken?
Going by the tier as well, this isnt totally in Shitenhouji's favour. Hyotei have a chance.
I don't really mind, but I would prefer if someone edit the title of the thread then. This thread is similar to tier ranking, but I think overall school debate is a lot more complex and can have its own thread.

There is no way Shishido and Chotaro would win against Chitose alone, let alone Zaizen as well. That falls way more in favor of Shitenhouji.
I think you're severely underestimating the silver pair. They was stated to be very solid by Ryuzaki. In double tier seemed to matter less, and more on how each player coordinate with one another. Golden Pair against Yagyuu and Niou is a perfect example of this.
 

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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

Chitose victory aren't assure. In fact, I'm sure he'll certainly lose to Kabaji if Kabaji can copy Saiki, except if it rain.
Nah, I dont think Kabaji could copy it as efficiently or some other fact would enter the match like rain lol. I just dont see Kabaji winning against Chitose.


I think you're severely underestimating the silver pair. They was stated to be very solid by Ryuzaki.
To be fair, Ootori and Shishido suck eggs individually and it was Kaoz who argued Shishido's place on the tier as I wanted him lower.

For a situation where Both teams agree that one person would face Chitose for SKnK would be insane as Chitose >>> Shishido or Ootori.
However at the same time, they contained Australian Formation beautifully and I think Shishido/Ootori VS Chitose doesnt necessarily mean a straight win for Chitose.

I say this because since his introduction Chitose has not showed a hint of improvement. Neither has Tachibana. Everything they had was stuff they already had and revealed. Nothing they had just learned unfortunately.

In double tier seemed to matter less, and more on how each player coordinate with one another. Golden Pair against Yagyuu and Niou is a perfect example of this.
Also Yagyuu/Niou pair wasnt just due to how they co-ordinate with each other. They were outright better than Golden Pair in every way.
They even went easy on them til 3-3 hahaaa. They performed a freakin switch lol. They showed off the ambidexterity for 6 games lmao.
Yagyuu and Niou Singles wise are both fantastic players and are simply above the Golden Pair. Even if their co-ordination was the same as GP's they still would have won.
Yagyuu/Niou pair is amongst the best in the series. Especially even now as Niou can become anyone.
 

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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

If this match happened, line ups might be

S3: Shiraishi vs Oshitari: Shiraishi wins 6-2. Even if Oshitari is very skilled, perfect tennis is more than enough to defeat a player like Oshitari. Oshitari doesn't have a chance to beat a top tier MS. He's too far of being able to reach such level.

D2: Gay pair vs Mukahi/Gakuto. Mukahi/Gakuto win 6-4, gay pair doesn't have much weapons to face them.

S2: Gin vs Kabaji: Not sure here, but I'm going with Gin. Kabaji can copy power shots, but he's limited by his own physical abilities. Gin is stronger physically than Kabaji, he can hit very high leveled Hadoukyuus and Kabaji won't return them. Also, Kabaji can't copy them because he doesn't have Gin's strength or has more power. Gin wins 6-2.

D1: Chitose/Zaizen vs Choutarou/Shishido: How can people claim that Chitose/Zaizen lose? Both of them are MILES ahead of Shishido and Ootori. Zaizen/Chitose win 6-1

S1: Kintarou vs Atobe. Epic match right here, Kintarou has to deal with Koori No Sekai, and Atobe has to deal with Kintarou's monstruous strength and speed. Also, Kint chan has Yama Arashi, and Atobe for sure wouldn't be able to return that. Kintarou wins 7-6

Overall, Shitenhouji is stronger than Hyoutei. I'm sure that if a match like this happened, Shitenhouji would have won.
 
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Kaoz

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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

D'you mind if we compare other teams aswell here Ken?
I don't really mind, but I would prefer if someone edit the title of the thread then. This thread is similar to tier ranking, but I think overall school debate is a lot more complex and can have its own thread.
Done.




As for the topic at hand, Shiten should have an advantage. I'd think that in order for Hyoutei to win, they'd have to make sure that Atobe doesn't face Kintarou, I don't quite see him winning this one, although he could probably beat Shiraishi and Chitose. A greater number of pairs can probably beat Konjiki/Hitouji, and it more or less comes down to the second doubles. So for example

S3 Shiraishi vs Kabaji
D2 Konjiki/Hitouji vs Shishido/Ootori
S2 Chitose vs Atobe
D1 Kenya/Gin vs Yuushi/Akutagwa
S1 Kintarou vs Hiyoshi

could work out in Hyoutei's favour, but that's already rather specific.
 

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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

If this match happened, line ups might be

S3: Shiraishi vs Oshitari: Shiraishi wins 6-2. Even if Oshitari is very skilled, perfect tennis is more than enough to defeat a player like Oshitari. Oshitari doesn't have a chance to beat a top tier MS. He's too far of being able to reach such level.
I dont think Shiraishi would regularly be in Singles 3. It was just because Osamu predicted Fuji would be in Singles 3 why Shiraishi was there. Since to be fair he is better than Chitose.
the 3rd best Singles player would be Chitose but either way both Chitose and Shiraishi > Yushi.

D2: Gay pair vs Mukahi/Gakuto. Mukahi/Gakuto win 6-4, gay pair doesn't have much weapons to face them.
Its Idiot Pair lol. I'll have you know the Idiot pair were awesome. Konjiki I believe personally knows the method to return Hadoukyuu. If you remember in his tie-break against Gin he calculated the shot however his homosexuality managed to get the better of him as he was distracted by Momoshiro or Kamio.
Had he not been distracted I believe he would have easily returned the Hadoukyuu.
Hitouji is just a weaker Niou which is fairly awesome. If we got to see these guys in a Singles match just once Im certain they would rise on the tier rankings.

Mukahi Gakuto is one person. Do you mean to put Akutagawa or Hiyoshi in that slot?

S2: Gin vs Kabaji: Not sure here, but I'm going with Gin. Kabaji can copy power shots, but he's limited by his own physical abilities. Gin is stronger physically than Kabaji, he can hit very high leveled Hadoukyuus and Kabaji won't return them. Also, Kabaji can't copy them because he doesn't have Gin's strength or has more power. Gin wins 6-2.
I didnt know this. Kawamura isnt weaker than Gin, but Kabaji was equal to Kawamura.
6-2 is unlikely. I see the same thing that happened between Kawamura and Kabaji happening here.
We dont know if Gin is stronger or if Kabaji could return them or not.

D1: Chitose/Zaizen vs Choutarou/Shishido: How can people claim that Chitose/Zaizen lose? Both of them are MILES ahead of Shishido and Ootori. Zaizen/Chitose win 6-1
Not the point. Shishido/Ootori may be awful in Singles but remember how they easily shut down Inui/Kaido pair and it was said the shut down Oshitari Yushi and Mukahi Gakuto pair. As a pair they are fantastic and deserve credit. I see that being a good match.
In doubles all Chitose has is Kamikakushi which Shishido's Rising Counter will handle.
Ootori wont lose his service games with Neo Scud Serve and Chitose probably wont with his coz of Kamikakushi but we know nothing about Zaizen.
We just know he is hinted as the next captain and is possibly awesome. (He deserves screentime I would love to see him play a Singles match haha).

S1: Kintarou vs Atobe. Epic match right here, Kintarou has to deal with Koori No Sekai, and Atobe has to deal with Kintarou's monstruous strength and speed. Also, Kint chan has Yama Arashi, and Atobe for sure wouldn't be able to return that. Kintarou wins 7-6
Agreed.
 

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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

I think you're severely underestimating the silver pair. They was stated to be very solid by Ryuzaki. In double tier seemed to matter less, and more on how each player coordinate with one another. Golden Pair against Yagyuu and Niou is a perfect example of this.
Ironically, Yagyuu and Niou are a perfect example of what I said. There is absolutely no evidence to conclude Yagyuu and Niou have ever played doubles together before, and therefore they are not an established doubles team like Golden Pair. The reason for this is simply because of where Konomi has placed Niou on the other two matches. Niou was playing doubles with Renji against Nagoya, and Niou played singles 2 against Fuji. So without a doubt, Niou and Yagyuu are not a continuous pair.

That said, it shows in their match against golden pair that doubles tennis is not just about how well you play with someone, but your overall ability as well. Both Yagyuu and Niou would have 6-0'd Oishi and Kikumaru in singles, and therefore their overall individual ability is much higher. This is why putting someone like Chitose against Silver pair is no different. Chitose is on another level, therefore that automatically gives them the edge, regardless of his teammate.
 

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How can people claim that Chitose/Zaizen lose? Both of them are MILES ahead of Shishido and Ootori. Zaizen/Chitose win 6-1
So far the manga and anime let me think that double combination is way more important than individual skill. It was understood by me that the golden pair once synchro would lose against NO other MS pair in the series (Except maybe Inui/Renji). If individual skill would be really important, how the hell they put Oishi over Fuji vs hyotei? of course the answer double combination is more important.
Shishido and Ootori are established as the third strongest MS double pair (only behind GP and Marui/Jackal).
So imo shishido/ootori have the advantage here.
 

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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

Ironically, Yagyuu and Niou are a perfect example of what I said. There is absolutely no evidence to conclude Yagyuu and Niou have ever played doubles together before, and therefore they are not an established doubles team like Golden Pair. The reason for this is simply because of where Konomi has placed Niou on the other two matches. Niou was playing doubles with Renji against Nagoya, and Niou played singles 2 against Fuji. So without a doubt, Niou and Yagyuu are not a continuous pair.

That said, it shows in their match against golden pair that doubles tennis is not just about how well you play with someone, but your overall ability as well. Both Yagyuu and Niou would have 6-0'd Oishi and Kikumaru in singles, and therefore their overall individual ability is much higher. This is why putting someone like Chitose against Silver pair is no different. Chitose is on another level, therefore that automatically gives them the edge, regardless of his teammate.
Precisely. Yagyuu and Niou are awesomeness.
However Niou and Yagyuu are in fact a doubles pair as they played with each other in Round 2 of Kanto Regionals..
 

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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

Precisely. Yagyuu and Niou are awesomeness.
However Niou and Yagyuu are in fact a doubles pair as they played with each other in Round 2 of Kanto Regionals..
Right, there's always going to be a dark horse eventually, if the team constantly changes the way they position the players. For example, they put Bunta in singles 2 and made a Jackal/Yagyuu pair during the match against Fudomine lol. That doesn't mean Bunta/Jackal are not the standard pair. I don't think just because they (Yagyuu/Niou) played with each other one other time means they're an established doubles pair.
 

Kaoz

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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

Ironically, Yagyuu and Niou are a perfect example of what I said. There is absolutely no evidence to conclude Yagyuu and Niou have ever played doubles together before, and therefore they are not an established doubles team like Golden Pair. The reason for this is simply because of where Konomi has placed Niou on the other two matches. Niou was playing doubles with Renji against Nagoya, and Niou played singles 2 against Fuji. So without a doubt, Niou and Yagyuu are not a continuous pair.
They played doubles in the second round of the Kanto tournament as well as in the quarterfinals of the Nationals. In other words, they teamed in 3 of the 6 matches of Rikkai we have the line-ups from. Marui/Jackal played together in 4 of those 6 matches for comparision. No other Rikkai pair has more than one recorded match I believe.
 

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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

Right, there's always going to be a dark horse eventually, if the team constantly changes the way they position the players. For example, they put Bunta in singles 2 and made a Jackal/Yagyuu pair during the match against Fudomine lol. That doesn't mean Bunta/Jackal are not the standard pair. I don't think just because they (Yagyuu/Niou) played with each other one other time means they're an established doubles pair.
Doesnt dark horse mean underdog?

Also, I think its stated that they are a pair by the montly tennis reporter guy I dont remember too well although it could be that they are just close friends not an official pair.
And yeah, its why Rikkai are my fav. school without a doubt.
To have the luxury to have Yuki in hospital and Sanada relaxing in Doubles, put Marui in Singles 2 and still not worry at all about winning the match.

Marui in Singles would have still handled fodder Fudomine lol.
What's sad is that Fudomine only have ONE player who is definetely above even the likes of Jackal in Singles. I dont see Kamio and Ibu beating Jackal after seeing how Momo/Kaidoh struggled to get just one game.

---------- Post added at 08:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 AM ----------

Does anyone have a theory on why Mouri told Niou you can never reach the Pro level with his tennis style?
Does that mean Mouri is far above Niou?
 

-Ken-

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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

Ironically, Yagyuu and Niou are a perfect example of what I said. There is absolutely no evidence to conclude Yagyuu and Niou have ever played doubles together before, and therefore they are not an established doubles team like Golden Pair. The reason for this is simply because of where Konomi has placed Niou on the other two matches. Niou was playing doubles with Renji against Nagoya, and Niou played singles 2 against Fuji. So without a doubt, Niou and Yagyuu are not a continuous pair.
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v01/c007/3.html

They ARE continuous pair.
 

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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

There we are.
Either way they arent an example to use as abilities wise, they wipe the floor with Golden Pair. Singles or Doubles.
6-4 isn't a bad score, though. I think they seemed to be doing a fairly good job against a player of a higher level. Considering both Niou and Yagyuu probably will 6-0 both of them in singles. My point is that I don't think Chitose and Zaizen on even on Niou and Yagyuu level to be wiping the floor with the silver pair like that.
 
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Re: Shitenhouji vs Hyoutei

6-4 isn't a bad score, though. I think they seemed to be doing a fairly good job against a player of a higher level. Considering both Niou and Yagyuu probably will 6-0 both of them in singles. My point is that I don't think Chitose and Zaizen on even on Niou and Yagyuu level to be wiping the floor with the silver pair like that.
Even with Synchro, GP wouldn't win right now mainly because of Niou's illlusions. Maybe GP with synchro could defeat pre-nationals Yagyuu/Niou, but in Shin, they're completely above Oishi/Kikumaru.
 
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