Discussion Proposed Edited Manga Ratings Changes

What should be done with the Edited Manga ratings?

  • Fine as they are right now. No need to change anything.

    Votes: 29 61.7%
  • Use the alternate idea.

    Votes: 10 21.3%
  • Get rid of them. There's no need for it at all.

    Votes: 5 10.6%
  • Other (Please post)

    Votes: 3 6.4%

  • Total voters
    47

WinterLion

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Some of you may be aware, and others not, but there have been a few issues/complaints about the current rating system we have, so we talked amongst the staff, and came up with an alternative idea. And now, we're going to open it up to all the members for what you would like to see happen.


Current Ratings System
LQ, MQ and HQ ratings following the Ratings Guide.


Proposed Ratings System
The LQ and MQ ratings will be taken out and instead we would have the following ratings:

CamScan: Edited Mangas made from the cam RAW. ALL Edited Mangas made from camshot RAWs will be considered in this category.

SpeedScan These are for obviously LQ Edited Mangas or those that come out immediately after the normal MQ or HQ RAW comes out. They are typeset and maybe leveled but nothing else.

Scan: These are Edited Mangas that have had more time spent on them than a SpeedScan and it shows in their overall appearance/quality, but does not meet the HQ standard. For Edited Mangas to be rated as a Scan, the quality of the work must reflect the time spent on it. For example, if too much of the original art has been destroyed in the process of the clean or if the typesetting is poor, no matter how much time was spent on it, it would still be considered a SpeedScan.
Note: We'd like to get a few ideas as to what to call this category. The rating Scan sounds ambiguous and would easily be confused as to whether we're talking about the rating or the Edited Manga itself.

HQ: Those that fit the current HQ standard. These Edited Mangas have been completely finished, and no obvious improvements can be made on them.


In addition, to be fair, we will have all Edited Mangas be rated by our mods that have Edited Manga experience, or those that have shown they can rate well. We may add to the list later, and may have some of our other globals rate from time to time, in cases where it's very clear as to what the rating is. Currently the regular raters would include:
  • Allashandra [alla]Rated by:[/alla]
  • des [des]Rated by:[/des]
  • ttxdragon [ttx]Rated by:[/ttx]
  • xi0 [mod=xi0]Rated by:[/mod]
And to ensure that there is no bias, each rater will have to stand by their ratings by putting a "Rated by:" for all Edited Mangas they rate. If there is a dispute in the ratings, a Manga Editor may request that their scan be re-rated by another rater. However, if a Manga Editor makes too many false disputes (where the original ratings are backed by another rater) they will lose their right to dispute ratings.

Finally something else we're considering: We could also have Manga Editors up a sample page of their scan and post links (not thumbnails since they would be considered spoilers as well as it would take up too much space to have so many posted). Details for this still need to be worked out, but if we get enough support for this idea, we will look into implementing it.

Thanks to Alla for all the example pages with the explanations. ^^
 

dedal_x

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Current ratings are okay. LQ, MQ and HQ... Well, adding CamQ would be good, because LQ doesn't even begin to describe the awfulness of quality of cam shots. Other changes would lead to just too many confusions...
 

chvis002

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I think that the sample page is an excellent idea. If it could be done pratically meaning that they aren't faked or such and without beeing spoiled I think that ratings would become unnessisary (unless if it's HQ). The sample could be complemented with orther facts about the scan like dimensions, size , redrawing done/not done, if it's precleaned and other stuff that could be good to know about it.

maybe something like this

- sample page -
  • size: ~5 Mb
  • dimensions: ~1100 x 750 png
  • redrawing: yes
  • precleaned: yes
  • other: good typesetting!
 

psychohare

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I like the ratings the way they are, coz the LQ, MQ and HQ abbreviations are easier than CS, SS, S, and HQ.
 

yoniekai

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some camscans are pretty good too, sometimes pass as speedscan... anyway i think it's still the same, the names have just changed.

hmm.. i dont know a new name for scan... maybe qualityscan? :sweat
 

CeZ ®

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I agree with yoniekai, same thing with a different name. + camQ + another example of LQ.

I would suggest, like I told to GK, not to rate them at all (LQs and MQs), instead, mods/admins/or us Manga Editors should provide a sample page in a thumbnail version for the leecher to preview and decide for himself/herself if he/she likes this or the other one better. a big spoiling but I think this is the best way ( could use a spoiler tag for it, or for all the Edited Manga previews alltogether )

All this that the one reading the chapter can decide on his/her own which Edited Manga to download.

BTW, in the example of the speedscan and scan rating about the out of bubbles text, I prefer the speedscan version. Less lineart destroyed/hidden. That huge white box looks bad.

Example of my suggestion:

[
Edited Manga By CeZ (note: not a real url)

(Size= X mbs | Dimensions = 750x1100)

OR,

Edited Manga by CeZ

Edit123224324: There is a special category for me, the overdenoised speed Edited Mangas. I think it's worth giving an example for them by a mod/admin, no?
 

choucha0308

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I voted for "right now is good" because as a user I think it's wayyyyy easier that way.
But I can understand that some Manga Editors can be upset when their scans are qualified as SSLQ.

So, maybe we should keep MQ and HQ but change LQ for something.....cooler^^ (speedscan, thanks-for-your-hard-workscan, good-but-not-bestscan, Gambatte scan... :amuse)

chvis002 said:
maybe something like this

- sample page -
  • size: ~5 Mb
  • dimensions: ~1100 x 750 png
  • redrawing: yes
  • precleaned: yes
  • other: good typesetting!
That's a very good idea ! If we keep the actual system, Manga Editors can write things like :
other : not so LQ, I hate [the name of the rater], etc...

:offtopic I am happy to be up-to-date with the manga because the example is A MAJOR SPOILER !!!!!! if you are just 3 chapters late. When I saw the spoiler tag I thought it was for the presentation not because we could actually be spoiled !

(doesn't it worth a 3 day :ban, Witty ??? :p)
 

Uozumi

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I chose other. My idea is this:

1. LQ - Thee are the bottom basement scans. Usually still in color, cam rips, or very poor gradient scans.

2. MQ - The whites are white, but it's not quite somethng comprable to what you buy in the store. These are usually made from say untweaked HQ raws.

3. HQ - Looks pretty much like the best of the best, very professional.

We keep the same titles, but the bleedovers between MQ and LQ are taken away.
 

Athena

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This new rating makes it a little too complicated. I don't see any problem with LQ/MQ/HQ.
Why try to fix something that isn't broken?
 

JoJoJO

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inana said:
This new rating makes it a little too complicated. I don't see any problem with LQ/MQ/HQ.
Why try to fix something that isn't broken?
I agree with inana why fix something that isn't broken, everybody knows what LQ/MQ/HQ means. You should know that you cannot please everybody if you do you will only cause confusion.

P.S. This is the internet everybody complains about something.
 

YozoraVII

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Hello, I've been thinking about some ideas that would help to satisfy the speed Manga Editors, and give the readers more information for their choices.

One was to make a table of the releases and the general tasks required in Edited Manga, with check marks. But that's messy, inaccurate and complicated.

The other would be expanding on the moderator's LQ / MQ system (HQ should honestly be deprecated for speed Edited Mangas) with a simple "-", nothing, or "+" (no double marks). Such as: MQ-, MQ, and MQ+. This would help with quick chapter comparison. Before you think this is just more complication, I say it should be used sparingly for releases that blatantly have more or less quality.

I like Believe's idea, so mixed with my own (with better description for the tasks), we get:

Size:4.6 MB, PNG / JPG
Raw:________'s Camshot / ________'s Scan
Translation:________
Typesetting:Good. / Average. / Poor.
Levelling:Good. / Average. / Poor.
Stitched Doubles:Yes. / No. / None this chapter.
Blacks:Good. / Average. / Poor.
Borders:Good. / Average. / Poor.
Midtones:Good. / Average. / Poor.

(The bottom three options might be excluded for LQ Edited Mangas.)

Go ahead and use that table if you choose to use it.

Also, as for who writes the information, the Manga Editors could be encouraged to do it when posting their release, then the MH mods just need to format it into the table for the RTS appropriately. (Hopefully no corrections need to be made if people can judge their own releases properly.) Or the mods could just do it.

So, for example:

Size:6.2 MB, PNG
Raw:Kylara's Scan
Translation:Yoshitsune
Typesetting:Good.
Levelling:Good.
Stitched Doubles:Yes.
Blacks:Good.
Borders:Average.
Midtones:Poor.

(Also, I think people should consider combining their Edited Manga efforts for faster and better quality. #mangahelpers would be an appropriate place to meet when looking to do this, no? :amuse)
 

JeffDoogins

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ok everyone should go by my system or be wrong!!

keep with original L,M,H and another 2; SLQ and SHQ. place the more specifics in brackets or after an -. ie. speed, cam, shit

(plz note that everything from SLQ to SHQ consist of each other ie. all scans must have translation though may only be mentioned in one type of scan)

SLQ......... straight off the press, little changes besides the text

LQ......... couple of changes done to the raw straightend a bit most errors and written errors gone darkened and splodges made less identifialbe

MQ......... all written and most drawing errors gone, pages straightend up to best fit and very few dots, splodges and holes identifiable

HQ.......... done by fairly respectable groups, nearly all errors gone if not all. all pages fitted to contrast, lines added if needed and translation proof checked atleast twice etc...

SHQ......... only done by the best Editing groups ie. Inane, Japflap, Null, M7, TOWNL. in other words perfect
 

guasu

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I think raws shouldn't be rated. I don't get the whole idea on rating a raw. Manga Editors are suppoose to get the raw and work on it to give us the most cleaned, fastest and understandable release. Most of us don't care about the quality of the raw after we are just waiting for the translation to come along and for them to stamp it on the little globes. If people want a cleaner version of it they'll wait for it.

The rating system is suppose to evaluate the work on the raw not the raw itself. :S

In other word raw should include camshot or speedscans. If for any reason a release is found in its original language and it is already worked on like on LQ, MQ or HQ level then they should note they it is and untranslated (<- is that a word? well it sound right...) LQ, MQ or HQ release because somebody already did some work on it.

No merit to the Manga Editor or Edited Manga group that takes a worked LQ, MQ or HQ and just fill the bubbles and take credit. Take credit if you bring LQ to MQ or higher.

In conclusion it should be something like RAW (quality doesn't matter, it is RAW!!!) and only after some work on the raw LQ, MQ and HQ.

Bonus: SHQ meaning a colored HQ release.

or you could just leave it like that. :P
 

abu_89

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I like the idea of separating the camera scans from the rest:

CLQ - (camera--low quality)
SLQ - (scanned-low quality)
MQ - (scanned- medium quality)
HQ - (scanned - high quality)
THQ - (tank scans- high quality)

The criteria for MQ should be:

1) All gray noise (light gray where it should be white) should be cleaned.
2) Most, if not all, blacks should be blacked. [e.g. lines on shirts have noise is ok but hair should be totally black]
3) Typesetting must stay within the bounds of the bubble. [text should not go over size 16 on a standard 800 * 1200 except for dramatic effect]
4) To replace japanese text, a white rectangle [or black] must be created as to LEAST cover the artwork. The rectangle [and text inside] must be rotated to be at the same angle as the original text.
5) Grays do not have to be cleaned at all but should not be overleveled.

The criteria for HQ, adding to the above, should be:
1) All blacks and whites filled.
2) Borders redrawn.
3) Rotated so the vertical lines are straight up and down, horizontal straight right and left [unless it is different in the original art]
4) Grays should be filled in. Choices are flat, noised, or patterned.
5) There should be minimal loss of detail.
6) Black and white page should be saved in PNG8 format. Color pages should be saved in JPEG. This reduces both detail loss and file size.
7) All lines must be redrawn when replacing text outside of speech bubbles.

Anything that's doesn't meet the MQ criteria should automatically be considered LQ. If typesetting is bad [oversized or undersized], then it should also be rated LQ. I like the idea of the preview but it can be a spoiler and sometimes misleading. The Manga Editor might decide to post their best cleaned page as the preview and the rest of the scan might be horrible.

The current categories are good but the definition needs to be stricter.

And for the raws, only tank scans should be designated HQ raws. Really good raws from JUMP scans should only be MQ [and the bad ones LQ or CLQ].
 

atmaweapon

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So far I think auvixa's plan (expanded on Believe's) offers the most solid improvement if there's going to be a change. The +/- system is so much better than adding a gazillion new acronyms like SLQ, OMFGLQ, LMAOHQ, etc, and the tasks he specifies have the important ones for general users and more in-depth criteria to truly distinguish Edited Mangas. Should please those who actually care to fight about this and keeps it simple for those who could care less.
 

TechnoMagus

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auvixa said:
Hello, I've been thinking about some ideas that would help to satisfy the speed Manga Editors, and give the readers more information for their choices.

One was to make a table of the releases and the general tasks required in Edited Manga, with check marks. But that's messy, inaccurate and complicated.

The other would be expanding on the moderator's LQ / MQ system (HQ should honestly be deprecated for speed Edited Mangas) with a simple "-", nothing, or "+" (no double marks). Such as: MQ-, MQ, and MQ+. This would help with quick chapter comparison. Before you think this is just more complication, I say it should be used sparingly for releases that blatantly have more or less quality.

I like Believe's idea, so mixed with my own (with better description for the tasks), we get:

Size:4.6 MB, PNG / JPG
Raw:________'s Camshot / ________'s Scan
Translation:________
Typesetting:Good. / Average. / Poor.
Levelling:Good. / Average. / Poor.
Stitched Doubles:Yes. / No. / None this chapter.
Blacks:Good. / Average. / Poor.
Borders:Good. / Average. / Poor.
Midtones:Good. / Average. / Poor.

(The bottom three options might be excluded for LQ Edited Mangas.)

So, for example:

Size:6.2 MB, PNG
Raw:Kylara's Scan
Translation:Yoshitsune
Typesetting:Good.
Levelling:Good.
Stitched Doubles:Yes.
Blacks:Good.
Borders:Average.
Midtones:Poor.

(Also, I think people should consider combining their Edited Manga efforts for faster and better quality. #mangahelpers would be an appropriate place to meet when looking to do this, no? :amuse)
atmaweapon said:
So far I think auvixa's plan (expanded on Believe's) offers the most solid improvement if there's going to be a change. The +/- system is so much better than adding a gazillion new acronyms like SLQ, OMFGLQ, LMAOHQ, etc, and the tasks he specifies have the important ones for general users and more in-depth criteria to truly distinguish Edited Mangas. Should please those who actually care to fight about this and keeps it simple for those who could care less.
same here. the heck, schools use this system for grades, why can't we?

so we basically have 2 additional grades aside from LQ, MQ and HQ, which are extremes of the LQ (cam shot) and HQ (colored).

my modification is to have something like this...
MQ-(- / +), MQ (- / +), MQ+(- / +)

with auvixa's system as a "base" grade (satisfies the criteria) and the second plus/minus (double mark) for more subjective/gray areas that doesn't fit the general criteria.
kinda like adding more decimal places for a more accurate value for a number.

this would only be used by those rating if the scan satisfies the agreed upon criteria but exceeds/falls behind expectations for that criteria (i.e. "MQ+(-)" --> satisfies criteria for MQ+ but has flaws not covered by criteria like yadda, yadda; "MQ+" --> satisfies criteria for MQ+, no complaints)

so for example...

"MQ-(-)" < "MQ-" < "MQ-(+)" < "MQ(-)" < "MQ" < "MQ(+)" < "MQ+(-)" < "MQ+" < "MQ+(+)"

*would have loved to put the valid grades in a regular expression but how many here knows about that? :p*

Also, we need an equivalent number system with these corresponding grades kinda like the ones we have in academics to avoid uncertainties.

edit: i would like to name this the "modified believe-auvixa-JeffDoogins-guasu-
abu_89-kts system for rating manga scans (C).... :p
*goes to patent office*
 

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omg,

I wasn't one to really like the idea of the camscan/speedscan/scan/HQ system, but it is by far easier than what some of you proposed here.

I'll favor if we keep it simple:
LQ - from worst to leveling of pages
LQ/MQ - better than LQ, less than MQ
MQ - Blacks are black, whites are white. not much overleveling - grays must be there, but not perfect
HQ - All must be perfect. even thin lines are to be redrawn.

this is to make it easier for us to rate them, but still keep it fair.

I ain't a fan of the first-post choice because it puts together those that would rightfully be LQ but are still better than the most LQs with MQs.

For the previews:
it would take much work to get a good formatting, but we could work something out.
 

YozoraVII

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Thanks for the support KakashiTux, but no offense I said no double marks (or any mixing of any kind). For the sake of simplicity. The leechers aren't supposed to know a system for it to make sense. And even then, I specified that the - and + system should be used sparingly, only for releases that are obviously - or +.

Also I don't know where this HQ = coloured stuff came from. Real Edited Manga groups get the HQ and that's all. This debate isn't about the standards of LQ/MQ/HQ as the mods and people in general know what they represent.
 

Xophien

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I like the old regular system better too, it's a lot easier to understand at first glance than this one that would confuse new users, in my opinion. LQ, LQ/MQ, MQ, HQ are fine by me :amuse
 

TechnoMagus

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auvixa said:
Thanks for the support KakashiTux, but no offense I said no double marks (or any mixing of any kind). For the sake of simplification. The leechers aren't supposed to know a system for it to make sense. And even then, I specified that the - and + system should be used sparingly, only for releases that are obviously - or +.

Also I don't know where this HQ = coloured stuff came from. Real Edited Manga groups get the HQ and that's all. This debate isn't about the standards of LQ/MQ/HQ as the mods and people in general know what they represent.
oh, the double marks (for my last suggestion, in bold, the one inside the parentheses)are subjective/optional/not really needed. it's for those raters who feel that a certain scan fits that criteria (your system basic MQ or HQ with its "pluses and "minuses") BUT exceeds/has flaws necessitating this "subjective/optional/not needed" additional rating and want to include it in their rating..

e.g, this scan is MQ but i don't like this yadda, yadda so its "MQ(-)" for me or this scan is MQ+ but exceeds the criteria but not enough for HQ so it's MQ+(+) for me.... :D

that way, the only bone of contention between Manga Editor and those who rate would be the subjective part inside the parentheses if it is included in that rating....

you can leave your system as it is, but i added that and made it available for those who feel like what i stated above and would like to use that guideline. :p i also agree that "MQ-", "MQ+" should be used sparingly....

yeah, it's a bit complicated, but hey, this is just a proposal and anything could be modified to what the mods feels best for everyone, right?

re: colored scans
well, maybe they're on a different level? just voicing another suggestion made above and including it in the current rating system. perfectly fine if otherwise left alone...especially since here are only a handful of groups doing these... :p
 
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