High Tier Singles Round 1 Block D - Kaidou Kaoru vs Momoshiro Takeshi

[Kaoz]

Singles - High Tier
Round 1 Block D​

Name	Kaidou Kaoru
Grade	Middle School 2nd Year
Birthday	May 11th
Height	173 cm
Weight	57 kg
Handedness	Right
Playstyle	Counter Puncher

VERSUS​

Name	Momoshiro Takeshi
Grade	Middle School 2nd Year
Birthday	July 23rd
Height	170 cm
Weight	58 kg
Handedness	Right
Playstyle	Aggressive Baseliner

Serve order: Kaidou -> Momoshiro


This round ends on Sunday, August 11th, at 8 PM GMT.

Have fun discussing.

 

[LetalHawk]

Unlike Momo, that we know he got BJK, we don't know what kind of upgrade Kaidou recieved. Momo's Bullet Serve and Jack Knife are useless against Kaidou, also both of them are rivals so they know each other special techniques inside out. Like Kaidou should easily return JK and Bullet Serve, Momo should be able to deal well with Boomerang Snake and Tornado Snake.

Then we got Momo and Kaidou's best moves so far: BJK and Gyro laser. Kaidou should have a really hard time with BJK, his wrists might not hold on that much and kaidou's power isn't great neither. On the other hand, Kaidou's Gyro Laser should be able to take some games because Momo isn't going to easily return it, also he can confuse Momo hitting Tornado Snake from the same stance and scoring points. We have to consider Kaidou's stamina which is far greater than Momo's.

Overall, I can't see a clear winner here, but I think Momo's speed has improved (seeing how he catched up to Bakyuun which is a fast shot) and he should eventually return Gyro Laser. Also, I don't see Kaidou returning Momo's BJK, mainly because his power isn't impressive, and I think he hasn't enough technique that can be enough to return it.

I think Momo wins this, but it'll be rather close. 7-5 or 7-6 to Momo.

 

[Phantron]

Because Kaidoh mysteriously lost his moves after coming to U17 (he didn't use Gyro Laser against Tezuka, even though it's unlikely it'd have worked) while Momoshiro learned from a top player, Momoshiro wins this easily.

 

[LetalHawk]

I agree with you Phantron that Momo will come out on top, but even for whatever reason Kaidoh didn't use neither Tornado or Gyro Laser against Tezuka doesn't mean he has lost them and that against Momo he won't use them.

 

[Phantron]

I agree with you Phantron that Momo will come out on top, but even for whatever reason Kaidoh didn't use neither Tornado or Gyro Laser against Tezuka doesn't mean he has lost them and that against Momo he won't use them.

Consider there's really no drawback to use Tornado Snake or Gyro Laser the only reason I can see for Kaidoh to not use them is if he somehow regressed, sort of like how Kirihara somehow can no longer use Muga. If Kaidoh didn't regress compared to his National Finals level he could put up a good fight.

 

[-Ken-]

I don't think Kaidoh can return BJK. But I also don't think Momoshiro can handle the two beam combo either. This will probably be a close one. I'll give the edge to Momoshiro, but really, I could vote for Kaidoh as well.

 

[Kaoz]

Kaidou still has Gyro Laser and Tornado Snake. They're both listed in his profile in PP 6, which was released after his match with Tezuka.

Also, Kaidou's stamina is far superior to Momoshiro's, so I would think that if neither of them can deal with his opponent's special moves, Kaidou would pull ahead eventually.

 

[LetalHawk]

Kaidou still has Gyro Laser and Tornado Snake. They're both listed in his profile in PP 6, which was released after his match with Tezuka.

Also, Kaidou's stamina is far superior to Momoshiro's, so I would think that if neither of them can deal with his opponent's special moves, Kaidou would pull ahead eventually.

Yes, like I said his stamina advantadge would be useful, but that depends also on how many BJKnifes he can either handle or if he avoids returning them. I think also Momo could return Gyro Laser eventually, and I don't see Kaidou returning BJK, that's why I think he will come victorious in the end.

 

[Phantron]

There's virtually nobody in POT that has ever made the realization that a special move, no matter how powerful, still only counts as one point. Kaidoh's stamina won't matter because he's likely to take significant damage while trying to return BJK and that goes beyond stamina. To put things in perspective Nakagauchi has a stamina rating of 5, but it only takes about 5 Southern Crosses to do serious damage to him which is done by a guy with a power rating of 5. I'd assume a move that can penetrate 2 rackets in a G11-20 tier guy is at least 5 power rating as well. Yes BJK isn't a move that's made to injure someone unlike Southern Cross, but I think it's just so powerful that there's no way you wouldn't get hurt if you tried to return it.

There's also a tendency that whenever a character learns a high level move they magically become stronger overall. That is although I think Momoshiro would have a hard time returning Gyro Laser normally, once he uses BJK per POT style you're likely to just see him magically hit Gyro Laser back with BJK. Though even if not, I don't see Kaidoh lasting the whole fight against BJK because like Fuji he's stuck at original POT level and can't possibly matchup against it.

 

[Kaoz]

Yes BJK isn't a move that's made to injure someone unlike Southern Cross, but I think it's just so powerful that there's no way you wouldn't get hurt if you tried to return it.

I don't think this is the case. We haven't seen Hara and Taira actually getting injured and they seem to have put up quite a fight even after Momoshiro got BJK. Compare Momoshiro's face when he hits BJK and when Yukimura and the BJB return to the others. When they return, there's lots of blood all over his face that wasn't there before.

There's also a tendency that whenever a character learns a high level move they magically become stronger overall. That is although I think Momoshiro would have a hard time returning Gyro Laser normally, once he uses BJK per POT style you're likely to just see him magically hit Gyro Laser back with BJK. Though even if not, I don't see Kaidoh lasting the whole fight against BJK because like Fuji he's stuck at original POT level and can't possibly matchup against it.

Are you claiming that anyone who hasn't received an upgrade in SPoT would lose to Momoshiro now? Because that seems rather implausible to me. Kaidou was at a higher level at the end of PoT, Momoshiro receiving BJK now is merely him catching up. Being able to return Gyro Laser normally isn't that big of a deal either, the actual threat of it is that it comes in combination with Tornado Snake.
Lastly, Kaidou will be at the baseline for the majority of the match, so hitting him with a move that isn't designed for that purpose shouldn't really happen, and since Momoshiro's BJK doesn't seem to compare to Oni's, his wrists should be fine as well (although he might burn through a few rackets).

 

[-Ken-]

I'll add to Kaoz point that Gyro Laser is also a very high level move that never get a clean return before. It's faster than laser beam. Even if Kaidoh were not using his combo move, I still think Momoshiro probably will have a fair bit of problem returning Gyro Laser when both Yanagi (who is a high tier player in his own right) and Kirihara weren't even manage to ever react to it. We saw Kaidoh combined this with his Tornado Snake and then we see those two player becoming unable to return Tornado Snake. But if memory serve me right, I don't think we ever see those two freely returning Gyro Laser before.

 

[Kaoz]

You are correct, Ken, neither of them has actually returned Gyro Laser. That said, I do believe the main threat comes from the combination of both abilities.

Another thing that could be said is that if Momoshiro tries to use a drop shot as decoy to set up BJK, Kaidou has the option to use a Short Snake to avoid that trap.

 

[Ninomiya]

The thing with Momoshiro is, in ANY match he has had so far in the series, since he attained Jack Knife, he has NEVER missed an opportunity to hit his Jack Knife.
Its a move that nobody has managed to seal off.
Neither Hara nor Taira could completely seal away JK.

In terms of technique I think its reasonable to say Taira > Kaidoh or rather its hard not to say Taira or Hara > Kaidoh.

Momoshiro WILL be landing several BJK's on Kaidoh and if his BJK's took out both Hara and Taira single-handedly then Kaidoh WILL lose to him.
Sure Kaidoh can land points but there's nothing to suggest he can't avoid BJK if people like Taira, Hara and freaking Oni have all been manipulated by Momo to hit JK's.

Momoshiro can't really lose in the end. BJK does too much damage.

 

[FrostyMouse]

BJK will eventually wear Kaidou down. I'll make it a 7-5 victory in Momo's favor.

 

[Kaoz]

The thing with Momoshiro is, in ANY match he has had so far in the series, since he attained Jack Knife, he has NEVER missed an opportunity to hit his Jack Knife.
Its a move that nobody has managed to seal off.
Neither Hara nor Taira could completely seal away JK.

I don't think Hara and Taira tried to seal it off in the sense that they wanted to avoid it. Momoshiro's injuries suggest that rather than avoiding him, they tried to take him out and seal it that way.

Kaidou's special moves on the other hand are meant to avoid the opponent, so the situation is different.

Also I would not bring Oni into this, he was obviously not playing seriously.

Momoshiro can't really lose in the end. BJK does too much damage.

That's assuming BJK hits. When Momoshiro was hit by it, he was right behind the net, Kaidou will be at the baseline. Hara and Taira didn't have their wrists damaged in the first place from what we've seen, they just couldn't return it (suggesting that Momoshiro's BJK is less damaging than Oni's), and I never claimed that Kaidou could return it either.

 

[Ninomiya]

I don't think Hara and Taira tried to seal it off in the sense that they wanted to avoid it. Momoshiro's injuries suggest that rather than avoiding him, they tried to take him out and seal it that way.

Kaidou's special moves on the other hand are meant to avoid the opponent, so the situation is different.

Also I would not bring Oni into this, he was obviously not playing seriously.

It was the Oni that the U-17 Camp knew. It was the Oni that wrecked Takei as the camp never mentioned a notable improvement when he wrecked Takei.
So it was still an Oni who was playing at a level above the 3rdCourt.

Its worth mentioning.

That's assuming BJK hits. When Momoshiro was hit by it, he was right behind the net, Kaidou will be at the baseline. Hara and Taira didn't have their wrists damaged in the first place from what we've seen, they just couldn't return it (suggesting that Momoshiro's BJK is less damaging than Oni's), and I never claimed that Kaidou could return it either.

Actually, Momoshiro seems to be able to trick players into getting closer from the baseline, also, Kaidoh isn't always at the baseline when he plays, he has been known to move up a bit.
The issue is, Hara and Taira were eventually overwhelmed by BJK.
Kaidoh will definitely survive a few BJK's seeing how Taira/Hara must have survived some.

Kaidoh will break out and take the lead. But too many players have been shown unable to avoid BJK.

Kaidoh is a stubborn fool whose Mental stat won't allow him to ignore Momoshiro's special move.
What's he gonna do? Ignore BJK? He's gonna go for it because Momoshiro will hit it frequently since Momoshiro has never failed to land his JK's since he learned Jack Knife.

In the end, Momoshiro's win cannot be avoided at this stage.

 

[LetalHawk]

Actually, Momoshiro seems to be able to trick players into getting closer from the baseline, also, Kaidoh isn't always at the baseline when he plays, he has been known to move up a bit.
The issue is, Hara and Taira were eventually overwhelmed by BJK.
Kaidoh will definitely survive a few BJK's seeing how Taira/Hara must have survived some.

Kaidoh will break out and take the lead. But too many players have been shown unable to avoid BJK.

Kaidoh is a stubborn fool whose Mental stat won't allow him to ignore Momoshiro's special move.
What's he gonna do? Ignore BJK? He's gonna go for it because Momoshiro will hit it frequently since Momoshiro has never failed to land his JK's since he learned Jack Knife.

In the end, Momoshiro's win cannot be avoided at this stage.

Momo's a trickster. Obviously, he's gonna make Kaidou to get near the net like he did with Oni, but Kaidou can use Short Snake, so it would be useless to use drop shots against him. His huge stamina might give him the advantadge, but every chance Momo has, he's going to start an assault with BJK.

Eventually, Kaidou won't be able to resist constant BJK, also, like you said, he's not going to run and will face directly BJK, and that's going to be his fatal wound because he'll struggle with it and his stamina will be reduced when trying to return it head-on.

Kaidou will use Gyro Laser to get points, but I see him unable to handle constant BJKs from Momo. His power isn't great neither and his technique has never been shown as great or something, so he'll definitely get hurt by it.

Momo is going to win in the end, so for me it's 7-5/7-6.

 

[Kaoz]

It was the Oni that the U-17 Camp knew. It was the Oni that wrecked Takei as the camp never mentioned a notable improvement when he wrecked Takei.
So it was still an Oni who was playing at a level above the 3rdCourt.

Its worth mentioning.

No, Oni used a racket with only two strings against Momoshiro, that alone makes it evident that he was holding back even more than normally.

Kaidoh is a stubborn fool whose Mental stat won't allow him to ignore Momoshiro's special move.

If we're bringing mindsets into this, would Momoshiro really be willing to hit BJK in a way that it actually injures Kaidou? I don't think he's the type who would hurt a teammate like that on purpose.

 

[Ninomiya]

If we're bringing mindsets into this, would Momoshiro really be willing to hit BJK in a way that it actually injures Kaidou? I don't think he's the type who would hurt a teammate like that on purpose.

I'm talking about mindsets of a player's general attitude. Not the attitude to a specific Seigaku player.
Otherwise we might as well just cancel all the matches of Power Players against someone from their school in this tournament if you think we should factor that in.

Kaidoh doesn't back away from anybody's special move, nevermind Momoshiro's. Kaidoh goes for every ball and tries to just get every shot back into his opponents court because he is a Counterpuncher.
Counterpunchers play style is about just returning every shot properly and waiting for winners and mistakes.

Kaidoh first of all, is physically weaker than Momoshiro as far as we're concerned.
More importantly Kaoz, even if you want to include mindsets that far in, do you really think ANYBODY in Seigaku would accept someone from their school going easy on them? Not a single regular would like that.
They'd go all out as they respect each other.

Logically, Kaidoh cannot win in the end. He cannot avoid BJK. If Momoshiro can single-handedly take out 2 1st Stringers with BJK, it is only right to assume he can take out Kaidoh who is only 1 person out with constant BJK's.

No, Oni used a racket with only two strings against Momoshiro, that alone makes it evident that he was holding back even more than normally.

With those 2 Strings, if he 6-0'd Nationals!Momoshiro, he still probably would have reached 3rdCourt with that level though lol.

 

[Kaoz]

If you want to include Kaidou's mindset as Momoshiro's rival, I see no reason to exclude Momoshiro's mindset.

Logically, Kaidoh cannot win in the end. He cannot avoid BJK. If Momoshiro can single-handedly take out 2 1st Stringers with BJK, it is only right to assume he can take out Kaidoh who is only 1 person out with constant BJK's.

I have already addressed this issue. Hara and Taira clearly aimed at Momoshiro, the blood in his face is proof of that. As a result, Momoshiro naturally also got more opportunities to hit BJK. On the other hand, even if you say that Kaidou would try to return BJK, he certainly wouldn't target Momoshiro like that, it goes against his playstyle and the purpose of his various special moves.

With those 2 Strings, if he 6-0'd Nationals!Momoshiro, he still probably would have reached 3rdCourt with that level though lol.

This is irrelevant. The point isn't which level Oni was at with a 2 string racket, but the fact that he went easy on Momoshiro. Saying Momoshiro tricked Oni only holds value when Oni tried his hardest as well.