[Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

Who will win?

  • Yukimura Seiichi

    Votes: 12 80.0%
  • Tooyama Kintarou

    Votes: 3 20.0%

  • Total voters
    15
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Phantron

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The clones improved though. Against Echizen, it was just a bunch of clones to deal with the illusion of Abare Dama, but against Hakamada, he covers the court with the them in a move I like to call "Swarming the Court."

There's not enough evidence about how 5 at Once works to make an estimation on all of that.

In SPoT, Yuki no longer has enough offense to hit the ball past the high level players , such as how Fuwa was returning every ball easily, so it's not as if he'll blast anything by people, but they still need to get balls past him consistently. I believe 10 at Once people crush Yuki, but 5 at Once people, it's not that clear.
The clone was never a real technique, it's just a sign that he's fast enough that instead of being confused by illusions he can simply chase down every one of them. Maybe he's even faster than before but he's always got insane coverage just as a function of his raw speed.

We know the order of difficulty is something like:

master Black Aura > 5 balls > basic Black Aura

Even basic Black Aura can resist yips (Sanada scored a point), and it says Yukimura fears the aura's power.

Now Kintaro is at least at the 5 ball level. We don't know how # of ball he's currently at due to lack of further evidence but he's at a point where he has resistance to yips. It is possible yips still knocks him out long enough to win, but given Sanada scored a point with basic Black Aura it suggests any 5-ball guys can at least do something about yips.

While Yukimura can return anything, Kintaro can pretty much return anything as well so it's just be your standard mega marathon fight. Given Kintaro is clearly at the top of the stamina/power game while Yukimura has not shown such traits, it seems to me the most likely outcome is that Yukimura gets a few games off Kintaro due to yips before he breaks out of it, and then they start rallying for an hour on each play, until Yukimura concedes due to exhaustation because at that point each game would literally take an hour or more to complete given both have the 'infinite rally' tendencies, so unless Yukimura is up like 4-0 or 5-0 before the infinite rallies occur, he'll lose by TKO.

---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:32 PM ----------

MS level is just opinion. since we 've seen atobe/niou doubles match. not all HSers are better than MSers. when MSers beat HSers, then wat.

konomi gave yukimura too STRONG powers. so he wins. I'm not saying kintaro sucks, i bet he returned all of yuki's balls in pot1, but yuki had to stop his azzz.
Fuwa didn't seem to have any problem returnign Yukimura's rallies while blindfolded. Since there's no indication that Yukimura was purposely holding back on the rallies you'd have to assume his rallies aren't anything special compared to the HS level. His rallies against Sanada went into the standard 'infinite rally' thing until Sanada got hit by yips.

Of course Yuki has super mental powers but his super mental powers is stoppable by some level of X-ball hitting. For example I think it's pretty safe to say if Tokugawa played Yukimura it's going to be just "LOL your tricks have no effect on me" despite we've seen nothing from Tokugawa aside from hitting 10 balls at once.

Now Kintaro can't do 10 balls, but he can do 5. We know Sanada started developing resistance to yips before he can even do 5 balls, so it's logical to assume 5-ball hitters can have resistance to yips. How much resistance we don't know, but since 5-ball hitting is a huge deal in NPOT so it'd be reasonable to assume 5-ballers aren't going to just straight up to lose to a technique like Yips. Maybe Kintaro breaks out of it down 3-0 or 4-0, at that point I guess they'd each hold their serves. But here's the problem. Because both characters are the 'infinite rally' type you'd assume each point might take 30 minutes to play and each game could take a few hours at this point, so let's say Kintaro broke out of yips at 4-0, by the rules given it's his serves so it'd take 4 games before he loses (6-2) assuming both character hold their serve at this point. Given each game could take several hours complete you're looking at say possibly 10 hours to finish the last 4 games. While Yukimura undoubtedly has high base stats, he's not described as an 'infinite endurance' guy like Kintaro, so I think it's likely he gets worn out by the infinite rallies before he wins.

Obviously this also depends on how long it takes Kintaro, if ever, to break out of yips. If he broke out at 5-0 then Yukimura has serve (according to the established rules) and maybe he takes an hour to win the last game but that's obviously no problem. I assume that it's reasonable for a 5-baller to break out of yips before 6-0 though given basic Black Aura can break out of yips and is learned before 5-ball.
 

Hardy

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Yuki plays super long rallies because that's the way yips appear. He hasn't mental powers.
 

Phantron

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Yuki plays super long rallies because that's the way yips appear. He hasn't mental powers.
Then why didn't Kintaro develop yips in his 40 minutes one point rally with Ryoma? If it's just the fact that having your shots always returned, Ryoma obviously did it for 40 minutes too on a single point.
 

Hardy

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Then why didn't Kintaro develop yips in his 40 minutes one point rally with Ryoma? If it's just the fact that having your shots always returned, Ryoma obviously did it for 40 minutes too on a single point.
Thing is, Yukimura doesn't just "return". He probably alternates different spins while rallying (like Ibu did against Ryoma).
 

Arcanix

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Kintarou probably didn't develop Yips because Ryoma was trying his hardest to win the point. They both used every move they had. Yukimura, on the other hand, simply returns every shot, no matter what kind of shot it is. That makes an opponent lose confidence. That's where the yips comes from, the simple overwhelming feeling that you can't win.
 

LetalHawk

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Kintarou probably didn't develop Yips because Ryoma was trying his hardest to win the point. They both used every move they had. Yukimura, on the other hand, simply returns every shot, no matter what kind of shot it is. That makes an opponent lose confidence. That's where the yips comes from, the simple overwhelming feeling that you can't win.
Yes, Kintarou didn't develop his own yips, he only had fun and returned Ryoma's shots, and Ryoma had Muga No Kyouchi on and his stamina was completely depleted because of Muga's secondary effects. Yukimura just returns every shot no matter what kind of shot, no matter what player or who is, it will always be returned, so that creates the illusion that no matter how hard you'll try, you will lose. Kintarou can expect and sense the same feeling like he did before, and that will happen, sure, the 5 balls and clone technique+Yama Funka won't save him. Kintarou will not get out of yips, he won't fight and just lose.
 

Ninomiya

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Then why didn't Kintaro develop yips in his 40 minutes one point rally with Ryoma? If it's just the fact that having your shots always returned, Ryoma obviously did it for 40 minutes too on a single point.
Since Kintaro was at stages where he might win, Ryoma was at stages where he might win, they were dead-even.

Against Yuki, it was portrayed that Kintaro just stood no chance through-out their playing. Kintaro got his ass-kicked. No ''powers'' lol.

Unless you honestly think Sanada is a Fire bender from Avatar since he can use Ka.

---------- Post added at 10:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 AM ----------

@Phantron.

WTF??? Basic black aura and mastered black aura??
What are you on about? They are the saming thing.
What on earth givese you the idea of 5ball return > Black Aura?

Sanada hadn't mastered it since it was the first time. Remember Ryoma used TMnK for one shot only, so its saying BA is similar to TMnK.
5ball return can't be that great if Konomi made Ryoma go on to learn 10ball return, and Sanada have BA AND 5 ball return.

Kintaro and Akutsu can't beat Yuki with just 5ball return.

---------- Post added at 10:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 AM ----------

Why would Kintaro hold his serve Phantron?
Yama Funka probably isnt stronger than Super Megaton.
Kintaro cannot defeat Yuki. It will defintely be better than the ass-kicking he got in Nationals, but Clones and 5ball can't change him so suddenly.

And also, 5 ball is no big deal. Otherwise Konomi wouldn't have had Sanada have BA + 5ball, and Ryoma have 10ball.
Akutsu and Kintaro were never on Ryoma or Sanada's level.
So implying Kintaro can do what Sanada did is stupid.

Kintaro was on his knees while in Yips. Sanada is the only player we've seen capable of standing whilst Yipped.
Different players.

---------- Post added at 10:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 AM ----------

Your forgetting, Yuki took points off of Sanada while he was out of Yips.
So your talking BS that he is weak at rallying by HS standards.

So far, breaking out of Yips requires an Aura. Right now, with new Yips,
The new Yips doesn't let you break out. Instead of making you think you have lost, you think you have won.
This means you no longer need to be losing to be Yipped.

So Kintaro couldn't break out, since he wouldn't be in a state where he thinks he is losing.

Phantron, you have to at least understand the new Yips if your going to make your argument.
Re-read the 11-20 MS takeover.

Yeah Kintaro has clones, But Yuki got up-graded Yips.
Yuki will definetely win.

LOL, how can you say Kintaro will return everything like Yuki can?
Yukimura has higher technique. It's never been mentioned Kintaro's technique is high.
He just has Power, Speed and Stamina.

You're missing out various things man.
 

Kaoz

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Yukimura Seiichi: 12 votes
Tooyama Kintarou: 3 votes

Winner: Yukimura Seiichi
 
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