Discussion The Four Knights of The Apocalypse Thread

[Demonspeed]

The problem I have with Percival gathering everyone one by one is that I feel it would be too forced. The situation honestly doesn't seem that bad for the heroes. All the Sins are alive and Arthur's knights were dodging them.

Lancelot was deeply affected by Percival's death but as said many times. He living the NEET life for two years seem too much.
Not having a single KoA who can be ordered by Meliodas seems awful in this situation. Gawain can teleport and she is from Camelot herself.

Anne and Donny were doing their search while Chion and Isolde were doing theirs too. They don't have to stay together. They might have different tasks too.

 

[Redpercy]

The problem I have with Percival gathering everyone one by one is that I feel it would be too forced.

I agree that it seems too forced

Percival doesn't need to save everyone to make them beholden to him and choose him as leader, Percival doesn't even need to be leader.

Currently, the only one who appears to be in potential problem among the four is Tristan

Lancelot and Gawain don't seem to have any problems

(And i don't understand how some think that Lancelot who has the best mental strength in the main characters, locked himself in his room for two years while even Anne and Nasiens didn't do that.)

Why didn't they participate in the current search for Tristan?
Because it is possible that they are training or carrying out a mission in a far away place and the news of Tristan’s disappearance has not yet reached them (like the Nasiens, who don't seem to be aware of Tristan's problem because the news hasn't seem reached him in the world of fairies).

 

[Yakkun]

The problem I have with Percival gathering everyone one by one is that I feel it would be too forced. The situation honestly doesn't seem that bad for the heroes. All the Sins are alive and Arthur's knights were dodging them.

Lancelot was deeply affected by Percival's death but as said many times. He living the NEET life for two years seem too much.
Not having a single KoA who can be ordered by Meliodas seems awful in this situation. Gawain can teleport and she is from Camelot herself.

Anne and Donny were doing their search while Chion and Isolde were doing theirs too. They don't have to stay together. They might have different tasks too.

I don't see it as forced at all. You say the situation isn't as bad for the heroes but that is perhaps only if you compare direct combat statistics. Camelot still takes all the Britanian land. And the fact that Meliodas calls for a meeting with the remaining Sins belies the statement that things are "not that bad".

Even if we follow your scenario in which Lancelot was not a NEET for two years, he still may not be available for Meliodas to command. Because he might just have gone and done his own thing. The expectation that everything rides on Meliodas being the chief commander in the background might in itself be a faulty one because he can merely ASK the 4KotA to lend their aid, he cannot force them. Meliodas has no autonomy whatsoever over this prophecy and only Tristan is literally a knight of Liones - if we are accounting for loyalty issues and all that. The others are guests. Lancelot helps Meliodas because of the relationship his father has with the king of Liones. Lancelot is still the prince of Benwick, not Liones. Gawain cannot be controlled by ANYONE.

You say things aren't so bad for the good guys because you are already assuming there is evidence that Meliodas still has at least one game piece in the form of one of the 4KotA. But nothing of the like is currently actually proven. And if it turns out Meliodas has none of them left, not even his son right now, then your assumption of things not being so bad for the heroes is simply a faulty one.


Don't get me wrong, your scenario IS the most likely one because I don't think Nakaba really has the balls to leave Meliodas bare like that. And unless something drastic has happened I don't see Lancelot abandoning everyone and everything either. But as powerful as he is - he is only one person. He might already have a different task as others have said. He may not really be there to aid further in the fight against Arthur.

Which is why Percival WILL go and bring them all back together. If not out of necessity then simply because he wants to reach out and wants to help everyone. Because that is who Percival always was and still is.

 

[Viaral12]

I don't see it as forced at all. You say the situation isn't as bad for the heroes but that is perhaps only if you compare direct combat statistics. Camelot still takes all the Britanian land. And the fact that Meliodas calls for a meeting with the remaining Sins belies the statement that things are "not that bad".

Either way, the stakes in this story are too low. Of course, the land of Britain is disappearing, but this drama is very difficult to take seriously considering that the knights of chaos themselves walk through the villages and persuade residents to join them, this is incomparable to what happened in sds when the clan of demons literally committed an entire genocide of the population.
I'm sure that Merlin could have put a strong restriction on Arthur before escaping and this could have been the reason why Arthur never dealt with the Sins and why he needed the drug now. In the second part of the story, Arthur needs to win a crushing victory over the Sins and annex all of Britain to himself, even if Percival gathers everyone, this does not guarantee victory over Arthur now.

 

[Demonspeed]

I don't see it as forced at all. You say the situation isn't as bad for the heroes but that is perhaps only if you compare direct combat statistics. Camelot still takes all the Britanian land. And the fact that Meliodas calls for a meeting with the remaining Sins belies the statement that things are "not that bad".

Even if we follow your scenario in which Lancelot was not a NEET for two years, he still may not be available for Meliodas to command. Because he might just have gone and done his own thing. The expectation that everything rides on Meliodas being the chief commander in the background might in itself be a faulty one because he can merely ASK the 4KotA to lend their aid, he cannot force them. Meliodas has no autonomy whatsoever over this prophecy and only Tristan is literally a knight of Liones - if we are accounting for loyalty issues and all that. The others are guests. Lancelot helps Meliodas because of the relationship his father has with the king of Liones. Lancelot is still the prince of Benwick, not Liones. Gawain cannot be controlled by ANYONE.

You say things aren't so bad for the good guys because you are already assuming there is evidence that Meliodas still has at least one game piece in the form of one of the 4KotA. But nothing of the like is currently actually proven. And if it turns out Meliodas has none of them left, not even his son right now, then your assumption of things not being so bad for the heroes is simply a faulty one.


Don't get me wrong, your scenario IS the most likely one because I don't think Nakaba really has the balls to leave Meliodas bare like that. And unless something drastic has happened I don't see Lancelot abandoning everyone and everything either. But as powerful as he is - he is only one person. He might already have a different task as others have said. He may not really be there to aid further in the fight against Arthur.

Which is why Percival WILL go and bring them all back together. If not out of necessity then simply because he wants to reach out and wants to help everyone. Because that is who Percival always was and still is.

Meliodas is the king of Liones. The KoAs are Holy Knights of Liones. They are definitely under his command. Percival has been knighted by him and Gawain probably offscreen. Even if she didn't, she isn't really in a position to disobey. All of them were going to go to the three locations Meliodas had ordered them to go. She also said early after her introduction that she obeys to people stronger than her and Meliodas definitely is.

The KoAs, because of their titles can also command most of Lione's HKs. They were all ready to listen to even Percival's orders.

The thing is that Arthur's progress is shown via these time skips but when people like the Sins are involved in real time his knights aren't strong enough threaten them. Bertolepe and Worraldan are strong but they are only two.

 

[Yakkun]

Meliodas is the king of Liones. The KoAs are Holy Knights of Liones. They are definitely under his command. Percival has been knighted by him and Gawain probably offscreen. Even if she didn't, she isn't really in a position to disobey. All of them were going to go to the three locations Meliodas had ordered them to go. She also said early after her introduction that she obeys to people stronger than her and Meliodas definitely is.

The KoAs, because of their titles can also command most of Lione's HKs. They were all ready to listen to even Percival's orders.

The thing is that Arthur's progress is shown via these time skips but when people like the Sins are involved in real time his knights aren't strong enough threaten them. Bertolepe and Worraldan are strong but they are only two.

The knighting act was mostly an act of symbolism so that the platoon would stick with Percy and you know that. They were never officially inducted into the knight body of Liones or went through any of their training or doctrine and skipped squire status basically immediately. Even people like Guila and Jericho who got elevated via red demon blood were at least apprentices to knighthood prior to that. Anne is the only one of minor noble status in that group. We never saw the other three KoA being knighted by Meliodas either, only Percival and his platoon were made to kneel before him.

I am not going to ride on this but you know full well that if push came to shove Meliodas would have no means (other than personally using violence) to reign them into servitude. It all rides merely on goodwill and the prophecy which looms over all, even Meliodas' kingly status, which does not exceed fate as we all know. Let's be real, of course they aren't just going to up and betray Liones for no reason. But everything you cited still hangs on the conditions that were set up until prior to the two year time skip. Things may have changed. I am not saying they definitely HAVE but the possibility that Mel can't currently command anyone - be they Liones loyalists or not - still exists, for all kinds of reasons. There is the possibility that Lancelot either still is a shut in or he is already busy elsewhere. There is the chance that Gawain is in the throne room with the others coming up with ideas to find Tristan just as there is that she is also gone somehwere on her own (and knowing her it may even be something like training or learning her origin but that doesn't mean she would have told anyone about what she does because that's just how she is. She is doing her thing when and where she feels like it. Upon entering the demon realm when they all got separated she immediately went and did her own thing again, that won't change anytime soon I feel. In that way it would not be direct insubordination but rather an omission of details of her whereabouts).
And lastly, Tristan is implied to be the prisoner so he is also not available, most likely.

I also believe this is kind of what the meeting with the Sins is supposed to address, among other things. It will be threat assessment, trying to get Tristan back, potentially trying to get leads on where all the 4KotA currently are. And I bet my ass that Percival just so happens - to everyones suprise - to be the first to arrive at Mel's court again. And thus be immediately tasked with getting everyone back together. And Percival would've done that anyway even without being ordered because that's just who he is - he wants to meet his friends again.

 

[Tristan]

Just imagine if Howzer, Griamore and Gilthunder had more screentime than Ban, King, and Escanor ...
It is really a shame to see sidekicks topping the screentime ranking like this:

 

[Demonspeed]

Just imagine if Howzer, Griamore and Gilthunder had more screentime than Ban, King, and Escanor ...
It is really a shame to see sidekicks topping the screentime ranking like this:

A screentime ranking? Is it up to date? After these two last arcs it's not surprising TBH. Especially for Nasiens. But I am a bit surprised to see Isolde that high.

 

[Yakkun]

Gawain in 7th place, brb gotta off myself , ripperino

 

[Tristan]

Nanatsu no Taizai Grand Cross just confirmed once again what Merlin stated regarding the "essence" of Chaos being Darkness + Light:
You can clearly see Arthur using Light-based and Dark-based offenses in the game:

 

[Demonspeed]

We have a description of Chaos in the manga and I don't think anything that happens in this game is canon. Nakaba drew certain characters for the game but I am certain that he is not supervising stuff.

 

[Tristan]

We have a description of Chaos in the manga and I don't think anything that happens in this game is canon. Nakaba drew certain characters for the game but I am certain that he is not supervising stuff.

Anything that isn't grounded in manga ... That, sure, we do agree on. Truth is, there is nothing in Arthur's moveset here which didn't appear in the manga.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 22, 2024, Original Post Date: Jul 4, 2024 ---

We know what "Hope" is, same as is the case with "Dawn" (i.e. Sunshine).
What about "Hazy Moon" & "Nova" though?

 

[Demonspeed]

We don't really know what Dawn is TBH. It doesn't work the same way as Sunshine.

Whatever Nova is, he is probably using it passively with his attacks since he has names like Falling Star, Heavens Lightning, Twinkle Star etc.

Hazy Moon can at least be used to absorb Magic and Shining Road is a homing light beam which requires a weapon. There is whatever he did to Arthur to make him bleed and floor him. Plus what he did to protect himself from the Mini-Percy explosion. It's hard to connect the dots.

 

[Yakkun]

Anything that isn't grounded in manga ... That, sure, we do agree on. Truth is, there is nothing in Arthur's moveset here which didn't appear in the manga.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 22, 2024, Original Post Date: Jul 4, 2024 ---

We know what "Hope" is, same as is the case with "Dawn" (i.e. Sunshine).
What about "Hazy Moon" & "Nova" though?

I know you like to get overly scientific if it suits your fancy so I'm not even going to touch that with a ten foot pole but "Nova" is obviously a power revolving around Tristan's general theme of celestial bodies. His attacks are "falling stars", etc. Most likely because of their visual appearance and obviously because - considering the timeline this plays in - celestial bodies are widely associated with something devine which is probably what Tristan himself attributes his powers and attacks due to his heritage. Oh, and the implications of something massively explosive with destructive potential, of course.

Hazy Moon is imo the most difficult to guess because you can interpete so much into it. What is a hazy moon? One that his hardly visible, one that blinks in and out of view. Something that can play a atrick on the eye, something that is mystical. The moon is related to the tides, the moon shines a light on the path we walk. The connections here are also celestial, they are there for bodies of water, for eb and flow of tides (tides of power?), waxing and waning of forces.

It's vague but I think it summarizes at least an aspect of Lance's magic. Shining Road is the part where the moon illuminates a path to follow, as in that of Lancelot's power. Lancelot can absorb magic power, amplify his own and redirect it. There you have the tide part. Lancelot can imitate the style of others but I am not sure if that is more from his natural born abilities like heartreading and thus copying. He can recreate magical weapons from his power as well, it seems, so maybe that is both an illusionary aspect.

Or it might really be none of the above and at the core of his magic lies something else entirely more related to the Lady of the Lake who might have given name to that magic power rather than what Lancelot knows it as.

 

[Demonspeed]

I completed the Rising Impact anime recently. In this series, Lancelot's special move, Shining Road, allows him to see a golden path which allows him to always hits its target when he is in the range for a putt.

And then there's Gawain(the MC)'s Rising Impact .


The Tristan of the series will appear in the other half. I remember seeing pages of him using Falling Star.

 

[Tristan]

I know you like to get overly scientific if it suits your fancy so I'm not even going to touch that with a ten foot pole but "Nova" is obviously a power revolving around Tristan's general theme of celestial bodies. His attacks are "falling stars", etc. Most likely because of their visual appearance and obviously because - considering the timeline this plays in - celestial bodies are widely associated with something devine which is probably what Tristan himself attributes his powers and attacks due to his heritage. Oh, and the implications of something massively explosive with destructive potential, of course.

Whatever Nova is, he is probably using it passively with his attacks since he has names like Falling Star, Heavens Lightning, Twinkle Star etc.

I agree with what you say guys and I believe that Nakaba has already cooked something regarding "Nova" in the NnT Origin game (same as he did with Tioreh). Have a look at this gallery from the trailer:

Spoiler

I don't think it's a coincidence that the main plot there revolves around the Book/Stone/Power of the stars and that Tristan, being the MC of that game, possesses an innate magic named "Nova". Here's what the game's executive director said:

New interview with Koo Do-Hyung, Executive Director of 7DS: Origin

-"What's the release plan? We are aiming to complete it next year."

- "What was the reaction of the original author (Nakaba Suzuki)?"
"Koo Do-Hyung: He was very interested. He designed the characters himself. He gave us a lot of details about the characters' skills in relation to the original work, which made it difficult to develop. We are carefully verifying the story, skills, and design by having Suzuki Nakaba review the story so that the worldview and narrative framework do not deviate. I remember having a lot of fun with the setting".

 

[Demonspeed]

I have been thinking, with Percival as he is now, what do you think are the ways to defeat him? Since he can supposedly still resurrect when killed.

 

[Undina]

Since he can supposedly still resurrect when killed.

Can a demon gobble his soul? Can Chaos? If so, is his will/psyche attached to a main LS in his body, is he a "hive" of them with his psyche split between all of them? Will something devouring his "soul" mess with his personality, the way Meliodas' getting his emotions ripped off did?

 

[Demonspeed]

Can a demon gobble his soul? Can Chaos? If so, is his will/psyche attached to a main LS in his body, is he a "hive" of them with his psyche split between all of them? Will something devouring his "soul" mess with his personality, the way Meliodas' getting his emotions ripped off did?

Demons can eat souls but it's never been relevant in combat. Said Demons would have to weaken him for this to work. Nakaba said there are soul targeting Ark techniques before but we have yet to see one.

 

[Rey151203]

I agree with what you say guys and I believe that Nakaba has already cooked something regarding "Nova" in the NnT Origin game (same as he did with Tioreh). Have a look at this gallery from the trailer:

Spoiler

I don't think it's a coincidence that the main plot there revolves around the Book/Stone/Power of the stars and that Tristan, being the MC of that game, possesses an innate magic named "Nova". Here's what the game's executive director said:

nah, nova is a fusion magic, merlin can merge elements but not light and darkness, nova would have been manifested precisely for tristan, as if it were destiny

the creation of the star element/magic, all attacks and skills will be linked to this much more than they already are in ark and PoD

And Yes, in the game it won't be a coincidence, since it would practically create the stellar energy element, I hope it's not yellow please (I hope it's white and purple or black and white)