Discussion The Four Knights of The Apocalypse Thread

[Undina]

Nakaba said there are soul targeting Ark techniques before but we have yet to see one.

But which goddess would try that on Percival? Nanashi?

 

[Demonspeed]

But which goddess would try that on Percival? Nanashi?

Assuming they can use it, the Archangels? I am expecting them to return in the story as antagonists sooner or later.

 

[Undina]

as antagonists sooner or later.

I can see Ludociel in that situation, but the other 3 goofs? That would indeed be sadge.

 

[Demonspeed]

I can see Ludociel in that situation, but the other 3 goofs? That would indeed be sadge.

Mael is probably the SD right now. I don't think Ludociel would be an antagonist under normal circumstances, but I think he, Sariel and Tarmiel will be corrupted by Chaos so that they can fight the KoAs.

 

[Undina]

I don't think Ludociel would be an antagonist under normal circumstances, but I think he, Sariel and Tarmiel will be corrupted by Chaos so that they can fight the KoAs.

Oh, he would be, he was the one who most readily abused the humans, and the other clans, for his (clan's) agenda. There's already some genuine trait of his Arthur can further distort. Not that the other two were particularly kind, but they were willing to exert some self-control. I have a hard time imagining Mael as SD. As the leader, sure, but not with that title. It's creepy, given the history. At least the demon boys can't avoid it as they are the a-hat's sons, and he was modest enough to only title himself "king".

 

[Tristan]

Nakaba said in a Q&A that Goddesses have techniques which can damage the souls, but we never saw them in the series.

"Destroy/Raze the soul" not "damage" it. In fact, it appeared in the manga first. The Q/A was just a re-affirmation from Nakaba:

Spoiler

 

[Demonspeed]

"Destroy/Raze the soul" not "damage" it. In fact, it appeared in the manga first. The Q/A was just a re-affirmation from Nakaba:

Spoiler

Huh, I don't think it's anything like that. The lesser Demons are being fried by the Omega Ark and the Archangels are using fancy words.

 

[Tristan]

Huh, I don't think it's anything like that. The lesser Demons are being fried by the Omega Ark and the Archangels are using fancy words.

Why don’t you think it’s anything like that? We’ve got the AAs’ statement and Nakaba’s affirmation to back it up!

Don’t tell me you’re waiting for goddesses to unleash some soul-separating, then soul-destroying attack before you’ll finally believe that’s what’s happening!

 

[Demonspeed]

Why don’t you think it’s anything like that? We’ve got the AAs’ statement and Nakaba’s affirmation to back it up!

Don’t tell me you’re waiting for goddesses to unleash some soul-separating, then soul-destroying attack before you’ll finally believe that’s what’s happening!

Because they are just using fancy words. Does it look like the Commandments's souls were affected?

I am waiting for an attack that specifically affects the soul yes. We got a Necromancer like Mera and even Soul Free for Gareth and Dareth.

 

[Tristan]

Guys, do you have any explanation to this (Specifically what's written in blue)?

Spoiler

 

[Killerbee12]

Guys, do you have any explanation to this (Specifically what's written in blue)?

Spoiler

Goddess and light magic
The same with the dark and demon magic. Chaos is the mixture of both
Don’t need to read into it that much

 

[Tristan]

In chapter 335, Merlin said this right after she finished the ritual of awakening Arthur:

「人間はあらゆる種族中、最も両極端に善と悪光と闇の性質を持つ矛盾極まりない存在だ。そして、矛盾は混沌でもある。

"Humans, of all species, are the most contradictory, having within them the nature of both good and evil, light and darkness. And contradiction is also chaos."

This was stated at a time when there was no "Nephilim" race yet. Being a Nephilim, Tristan is a creature of Darkness and Light, and the prophecy describes him as "the boy with both Evilness and Holiness in his eyes!"
That makes him the character that embodies "Contradiction" the most, right after Chaos itself.
the Question now is: will this have any implications on his future potential?

 

[Demonspeed]

I don't think it's very important for anyone. Tristan is a "contradiction" but he isn't even Human. It just explains why Humans are compatible with Chaos.

 

[Tristan]

I don't think it's very important for anyone. Tristan is a "contradiction" but he isn't even Human. It just explains why Humans are compatible with Chaos.

Is "Chaos" (the Entity) human tho?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 29, 2024, Original Post Date: Dec 29, 2024 ---

I don't think it's very important for anyone.

I didn't get what you wanna say here. Can you give more context on this?

 

[Demonspeed]

Is "Chaos" (the Entity) human tho?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 29, 2024, Original Post Date: Dec 29, 2024 ---

I didn't get what you wanna say here. Can you give more context on this?

? No. It created Humans. What I am saying is that it just explains why Humans are compatible with the power of Chaos.

 

[Tristan]

? No. It created Humans. What I am saying is that it just explains why Humans are compatible with the power of Chaos.

Yeah sure, but that doesn't mean it won't have any implications on the current plotline of the 4KoA.

 

[Demonspeed]

Yeah sure, but that doesn't mean it won't have any implications on the current plotline of the 4KoA.

As of now, I can't think of anything in particular. The story is already mostly about Humans.

 

[joma166]

I've been thinking about a subject for a while, and now that Percival's weapon has just been announced, it's a good time to comment on it.

Do you think we'll see the full equipment of the four knights of the apocalypse? Just like we saw with the Seven Deadly Sins. I'm referring to their Holy Knight armor, their Sacred Treasures (this obviously yes, but there are nuances) and a little extra (which I'll comment on at the end).

Holy Knight Armor

Until now we haven't seen much of this section in the new protagonists, and let's be honest, for the 7DS they didn't take on much relevance either, we barely saw them in flashbacks from when the group worked for King Baltra in the past, before its dissolution, and in the present time with few exceptions (I think especially Gowther and Escanor).

But still, it's an element that the fandom likes quite a bit, or am I the only one who is fascinated when Nakaba introduces a new knight and shows us an amazing armor with a helmet included? I think it's one of the attractions of the series, and the author is really doing well with all the Camelot HKs that he's been introducing us to. It's even an area that has improved in the sequel, since in NNT the demons became more relevant as enemies, and the HKs ended up losing relevance and consequently the armors. Here's a little look:

Spoiler

And so far this is what we have for the 4KoA:

Percival​	Lancelot​	Tristan​	Gawain​

• Percival: Nothing shown so far, the closest is the outfit they gave him in Liones, but it wasn't armor.
• Lancelot: Even less, he has always worn the same outfit..
• Tristan: His first appearance was with armor, although it doesn't give off official armor vibes, it looks more like generic armor from the kingdom of Liones, more specifically a prince's. I wouldn't consider it.
• Gawain: Although we haven't seen her wearing it, it's a prodigious armor, I see it worthy of a KoA, but on the other hand I think it belongs more to a pre-KoA stage, and that as part of the group she would have another one.

The quick answer to whether they need armor is no, it's purely for fanservice, but seeing all the armor that Nakaba has presented, I think that all four of them will end up having it (even the rest of the platoon companions). And you, do you think they will have HK armor?

Sacred Treasure

Unlike the above, here we all have to agree that yes, all KoA need, must, have to have their respective Sacred Treasures (although I think that currently they have not been named as such, it was a term for the weapons of the 7DS). The subject of weapons from almost the beginning is, not just a resource of the series, but almost a sub-plot, so there is not so much debate, in fact, they all have or will have their ST:

Percival​	Lancelot​	Tristan​	Gawain​

• Percival: The Circular Force, presented in this last chapter, probably exploits all of Percival's abilities and the spirit of life.
• Lancelot: It does not exist yet, but we already saw it in Guinevere's vision. It is probably at the level of its owner, and is Dubs' magnum opus.
• Tristan: The swords Mael and Estarossa, each with their particular abilities, and probably very convenient for Tristan, but they have hardly had any relevance, they are pretty, but little more... I hope for something more in the future, to be honest.
• Gawain: The Rhitta sword, a fragment of the eponymous axe that belonged to Escanor, and here it touches my nerve a bit... I can't stand the idea that this is Gawain's definitive weapon As a nod to its predecessor, and as a bearer of his legacy, I see it well at first, but I can't help but think that she's keeping the leftovers from a ST from the previous generation. Also, and in my subjective opinion, the design of the sword seems ugly to me, okay, it's nothing more than a fragment of the axe blade, but it simply looks like a huge curved knife, nothing to do with the elegance of the original weapon, so again, one point less to its heritage.

As I said, I think that Tristan and Gawain's weapons will not be, or at least I hope so, their ultimate weapons and therefore their ST. They are also, compared to Percival and Lancelot's, weapons that Dubs has not forged (not from scratch), at least as far as we know, while even the members of the Percival platoon Yes. I don't know if it's any indication, but I still remember that the weapons that their prophetic figures had were these:

Spoiler

Tristan has a powerful sword, it even seems to be on fire (heavenly flames?). I currently think that this sword will be the fusion of the swords Mael and Estarossa, and that it will somehow also symbolize the fusion and reconciliation of his two halves, his Goddess part and his Demon part, and this only when we have Mael in the story, it would be poetic if Mael himself helps to reconcile those two halves of Tristan and in turn induces the fusion of the two swords that bear his two names. I don't know if you are familiar with the history of the Warcraft game, but it would be similar to what happened with the character of Varian Wryn (when he was separated into two entities) and the sword Shalamayne fusion of two blades.

Regarding Gawain, I don't have much speculation, it looks like a different type of weapon than the Rhitta sword, but I would only settle for her having a more worthy weapon for her, although I wouldn't bet much on it, not as much as with Tristan.

Do you think Tristan and Gawain will have new weapons, or are we already looking at the two STs of these KoA?

Horse

​

And finally, an element that every self-respecting story inspired by the horsemen of the apocalypse has, horses. Okay, I know the title is the 4 Knights of the Apocalypse, not the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse, this is about knights, Holy Knights! But in a way, haven't knights always been linked to cavalry in history? In favor of this, we've already had some of it in the series:

Percival​	Lancelot​	Tristan​	Gawain​

• Percival: Ok, the horse isn't his, it's Anne's, but if we cheat a little, and consider it the horse of the Percival platoon, we can include Sylvan in the equation.
• Lancelot: He hasn't been seen with a mount, nor is he expected to, and being a fairy... it would be strange.
• Tristan: The most obvious one, right? The official horse of the prince of Liones, Escanor.
• Gawain: Same as Lancelot, a mount would also be strange when he flies, and the closest thing Merlin had to a mount was Escanor lol

According to legend, the horseman of victory (the plague) would have a white horse, the one of war a red horse, the one of famine a black horse and the one of death a bay horse (yellowish white). So Tristan should have had the white horse and not the bay one (I think Escanor is yellowish white, right?) instead of Percival, that is, they have inverted horses, but well Tristan was also supposed to be the knight of hope (the horseman of victory/plague) and Percival was, inverted roles. On the other hand Lancelot should have had the red horse, I can think of a possible horse with that partial tone:

Spoiler

Sleipnir fits well with Lancelot (if we ignore the size and take a smaller specimen), a creature from Purgatory (place where his father Ban was strengthened), and of which Lancelot already eliminated one. Finally Gawain would have a black horse... the truth is that the only thing I can imagine for Gawain is an artificial horse created with magic and that acquires dark color, can you imagine that his grandmother and his grandfather merge and form a magic horse half puppet half skeleton?

The truth is that I have serious doubts about seeing more horses besides Sylvan and Escanor, but I would kill to see a scene of the 4KoA with their armor and weapons mounted on their horses, this scene in front of Arthur:

 

[Demonspeed]

Pretty sure that we'll see them all in armor at least once. Tristan seems to follow the chivalry code and is more comfortable with them. He had another armor before he lost his memory.

Lancelot's weapon doesn't have to be better than the others. Dubs creates weapons fitting the user. Shirojika can withstand his power but Lancelot is better with spear and bow. In the other potential designs for him he either has a spear or a bow. I think he might get something with the ability to change shape, similar to a Spirit Spear.

Tristan will get his ST once they regroup and leave Annwfyn for sure. Should still be a pair of swords. He is ambidextrous with PoD and Ark.

I am still disappointed by Gawain's ST. I think it'll look kinda silly when she transforms considering her build and fighting style but it seems it'll be final considering the color page and the fact that she lives with Dubs.

I don't see them getting more horses. Escanor is the pet of the Tristan Platoon and Sylvan the pet of the Percival Platoon.

 

[Tristan]

I don't get my head around Nakaba's procrastination when it comes to Tristan's innate magic and ST. We've seen Percival's magic since the beginning of the sequel, and we're gonna see what his ST is capable of in the next chapter. Same holds for Gawain, at least we know her magic ability, and I guess that her ST will be a reforging of her current one into a much more special weapon. As for Lancelot, we've got a hint of what his innate magic is during his fight against Nanashi, and we've got also a peek of his ST via Guine's flashforward.
Speaking of the ST, what are the chances that Tristan's ST could possibly end up being the Dragon handle of Eternal Darkness itself?