Discussion The greatest gathering of talent in the last 10 years

[Phantron]

During the nationals, the current generation of talent was referred to as the greatest gathering of talent in the last 10 years more than a few times. Obviously at the time there was no plan for NPOT presumably, but looking back, this statement seems pretty absurd. Sure, maybe Gin could be the next Duke in 3 years, or Fuji can be the next Tanegashima in the 3 years. But where is this generation's Byodouin and Oni? Don't mistake the fact that these guys are likely to get surpassed in NPOT with their greatness. Both of these guys discovered the X-ball on their own without any guidance. In fact I think it's far more likely that either Oni or Byodouin (or both) decided to share the secret of X-ball with the rest of the U17 camp, since we see in the flashback the coaches at U17 can't even see them playing tennis. It's true several guys in the current generation have the talent to do X-ball, but without being told this is doable they might have never even thought about attempting it. After all, Ryoma's TnK Samurai Drive is basically just 2-ball and that already seems to defy the imagination of the guys present.

And then there is the glowing shot. Byodouin says he learned the technique due to his battle to the death against Oni, so it looks like you got to have two guys as powerful as Byodouin/Oni matched up against each other while playing to the death to become aware of the existence of this technique. Even Ryoga, who is presumably just an older Ryoma, was probably taught the glowing shot by Byodouin (at least he didn't deny it). This suggests this technique is practically impossible to discover on your own. Who in the current generation could possibly discover this on their own? It seems like you need a significant amount of power to get even get close to the glowing shot, so this rules out guys like Yukimura (who is sick anyway) or Tezuka (who would've gone to Germany anyway). Maybe Sanada versus Kintaro could have triggered this (Ryoma would've gone back to America anyway), but then that brings to the next question: would any of them want to share this secret with others? Oni and Byodouin both seem to be willing to share their secrets to make the U17 team stronger. Sanada sure didn't go around teaching people the secret of FuRinKaZan, so even if he could do the glowing shot, why would he want to share it? And we can infer it's absolutely impossible to figure out how to do the glowing shot just by watching someone doing it. So even if the same fortitous situation matchup occurred, the glowing shot would likely still remain just a secret for the two guys who happened to be in the death match.

Of course, then there's the question didn't any of those MSers hear from their older schoolsmate about these two freaks that's in the generation above them? Was Oni's school just so bad that he couldn't have even made it to the nationals? Was Byodouin always traveling around the country and just missed the nationals, since we know his school was a regular contender in the nationals?

In fact, in the absence of the frameowrk Oni and Byodouin lay out plus some luck in the U17 camp itself, most of the MS would likely have a pretty uneventful finish. The only guy who would've still went on to his full potential is Atobe, who basically just constantly refines his eye power. Maybe it'd take longer but he definitely could learn AK if he played enough tough opponents. Let's look at the rest of the top characters:

Tezuka - If he never met Yamato in U17 he'd likely just gone to Germany and break his arm for good due to his reckless style.

Ryoma - Would've just gone back to America anyway so he doesn't even count, and of course he benefited from X-ball and glowing shot the most.

Kintaro - Similar to Ryoma. He'd still be a strong player, but nowhere as strong without seeing how the X-ball was done. Still likely good for #2 overall behind Atobe in this 'new' generation.

Yukimura - Most likely would've just collapsed in a game later on and never be able to play tennis again because he wouldn't have Kimijima's connections to get his illness cured for good.

Sanada - I strongly suspect seeing the X-ball help him completely the Black Aura since he was playing against 5 guys at once on the mountain top. He'd still be a strong player, but may have never gotten the crucial key needed to complete Black Aura. Without it, Atobe would've easily passed him up when since AK did not require any unusual circumstance to master.

 

[Brandnewkid]

It's the greatest gathering of middle school talent. It is a common fan misconception that the players in PoT represent the strength of all middle school tennis players in the PoT-verse. The main characters are an especially talented bunch, which is why they were invited to the U-17. Remember, they only had trouble with the upper courts. The lower courts were shown to be real weak since like, chapter 2, where they couldn't even catch balls dropped from the sky. They're middle schoolers with professional talent, not middle schoolers with "high school talent."

 

[redhairSH]

The middle schoolers in the camp wasted numbers 9 to 19 of the U-17 top 20, they also took over the 6th, 3rd, and 2nd courts, seeing as how they did this by wiping out high schooler after high schooler from the nation's top training camp, I would say this proves their talent, and they did this without Tezuka

 

[floman]

Just to add on what has been said, you have to subtract three years of training from all of the top 20 (except Mouri and Hara where you subtract one year and Taira, Mitsuya and fuwa where you subtract two years). The level of their play would be completely different. Almost all of the middle schoolers greatly improved from a couple of months at the camp. Yukimura said "it's the ideal place to practice.". If shiraishi continues to improve at a fourth of the rate he is improving at, he will be better than all of top ten (except possibly Ryoga Byoudin and Oni) by his second year of high school.

It is fair to say Oni, Byoudin and Ryoga are great, but given time Atobe, Kin-chan, Sanada would easily reach their level. Ryoma could leave for America but that still means he is strong. With the support of Atobe, Tezuka still could have reached TnK. This is too theoretical because real training can be the difference in tiers of players. Given a year or two silver pair will probably reach a level equal to if not better than Ochi and Mouri.

 

[Phantron]

When talking about the 'greatest talent' I usually think you'd have to have a solid lock on the #1 spot as well. That is if the #10-50 all time NBA players all played in same hypothetical era, that's still unlikely enough to be considered 'greatest generation' because they don't have anyone in the #1 to #9 spot. There's no doubt the MSers easily have a wealth of quantity of decent players. Like I said Gin could be Duke in 3 years, and Fuji can be Tanegashima in 3 years as well. But it seems to me without the events of NPOT itself, no one would've came close to Oni or Byodouin. It's not clear if anyone would even came up with the idea of hitting with multiple balls let alone the 'another dimension' stuff. There's no doubt the raw talent of this generation is there, but the one who pioneered the way is still much greater than the guys who followed. If you take an abacus and try to divide 21 into 400 you'll have a very hard time doing that, but a kid in elementary school can do this with long division. The invention of long division is what makes a previously hard task (division) doable by even kids.

Even without the likely injuries/illness, it'd be pretty unlikely for Tezuka to reach TnK (Yamato seems to be the only guy he really listened to since normally he's the one calling the shots), and TnK without accounting for X-ball is still not that strong, as Ryoma can't come close to beating Tokugawa at all. Certainly the cast of POT could've caught up to anyone but Oni and Byodouin within 3 years while being unaware of stuff like X-ball, but I suspect the difference between those two and the rest of the camp is huge. Sure, you can say of course the HS players got to have something new or it wouldn't be much of a story, but based on the flashbacks, what Oni and Byodouin accomplished in H1 alone seems to be something no MSer would have ever discovered on their own. Keep in mind what they did was also beyond the coach's comprehension, so while U17 may have extra awesome training, it was never going to teach you how to play tennis like those two if they didn't choose to share their secrets.

 

[redhairSH]

When talking about the 'greatest talent' I usually think you'd have to have a solid lock on the #1 spot as well. That is if the #10-50 all time NBA players all played in same hypothetical era, that's still unlikely enough to be considered 'greatest generation' because they don't have anyone in the #1 to #9 spot. There's no doubt the MSers easily have a wealth of quantity of decent players. Like I said Gin could be Duke in 3 years, and Fuji can be Tanegashima in 3 years as well. But it seems to me without the events of NPOT itself, no one would've came close to Oni or Byodouin. It's not clear if anyone would even came up with the idea of hitting with multiple balls let alone the 'another dimension' stuff. There's no doubt the raw talent of this generation is there, but the one who pioneered the way is still much greater than the guys who followed. If you take an abacus and try to divide 21 into 400 you'll have a very hard time doing that, but a kid in elementary school can do this with long division. The invention of long division is what makes a previously hard task (division) doable by even kids.

Even without the likely injuries/illness, it'd be pretty unlikely for Tezuka to reach TnK (Yamato seems to be the only guy he really listened to since normally he's the one calling the shots), and TnK without accounting for X-ball is still not that strong, as Ryoma can't come close to beating Tokugawa at all. Certainly the cast of POT could've caught up to anyone but Oni and Byodouin within 3 years while being unaware of stuff like X-ball, but I suspect the difference between those two and the rest of the camp is huge. Sure, you can say of course the HS players got to have something new or it wouldn't be much of a story, but based on the flashbacks, what Oni and Byodouin accomplished in H1 alone seems to be something no MSer would have ever discovered on their own. Keep in mind what they did was also beyond the coach's comprehension, so while U17 may have extra awesome training, it was never going to teach you how to play tennis like those two if they didn't choose to share their secrets.

And since the middle schoolers can probably surpass all of the G10 besides Oni and Byoudin(Ryoga maybe, maybe not, it depends on how much he trains Ryoma), then it's not like the NBA's #10-50, it's more like the NBA's #3-50, and that would be badass

You need strong rivals to push yourself, Byoudin only learned his other dimension thing when he played oni, and there isn't anything to suggest that oni had his kishin powers before he played byoudin, so if those two were never paired up for the tie breaker, then they wouldn't be the badasses they are now

 

[floman]

When talking about the 'greatest talent' I usually think you'd have to have a solid lock on the #1 spot as well. That is if the #10-50 all time NBA players all played in same hypothetical era, that's still unlikely enough to be considered 'greatest generation' because they don't have anyone in the #1 to #9 spot. There's no doubt the MSers easily have a wealth of quantity of decent players. Like I said Gin could be Duke in 3 years, and Fuji can be Tanegashima in 3 years as well. But it seems to me without the events of NPOT itself, no one would've came close to Oni or Byodouin. It's not clear if anyone would even came up with the idea of hitting with multiple balls let alone the 'another dimension' stuff. There's no doubt the raw talent of this generation is there, but the one who pioneered the way is still much greater than the guys who followed. If you take an abacus and try to divide 21 into 400 you'll have a very hard time doing that, but a kid in elementary school can do this with long division. The invention of long division is what makes a previously hard task (division) doable by even kids.

Even without the likely injuries/illness, it'd be pretty unlikely for Tezuka to reach TnK (Yamato seems to be the only guy he really listened to since normally he's the one calling the shots), and TnK without accounting for X-ball is still not that strong, as Ryoma can't come close to beating Tokugawa at all. Certainly the cast of POT could've caught up to anyone but Oni and Byodouin within 3 years while being unaware of stuff like X-ball, but I suspect the difference between those two and the rest of the camp is huge. Sure, you can say of course the HS players got to have something new or it wouldn't be much of a story, but based on the flashbacks, what Oni and Byodouin accomplished in H1 alone seems to be something no MSer would have ever discovered on their own. Keep in mind what they did was also beyond the coach's comprehension, so while U17 may have extra awesome training, it was never going to teach you how to play tennis like those two if they didn't choose to share their secrets.

That's definitely fair that Byoudin and Oni are seemingly impossibly far from the rest of the group, but if you think about it Kaido had no stamina at the begging of the series. He worked and trained his butt off and then gained some of the best stamina of any character. When the people were challenged they came up with solutions. There are always different challenges.

When Ryoma came up with the cool drive, Atobe saw it as a challenge and developed the Tanhauser. If Tezuka met Yamato under different circumstances he would have reached PoP. It was only because he had the weight of the pillar of seigaku on his head. The only way to take if off was from the guy who gave it to him in the first place.

Kintarou if he had faced a strong opponent who was just better than him, he would have reached the PoP. All the players are always striving to be stronger just like anyone. They figure out their own ways.

Whose to say that there isn't another move that Kaido would have found that improves upon the laser that matches the power from another dimension. If we become hypothetical, maybe Kite would have been so jealous of Tezuka that he reaches a different level of the habu or an improvement on the Shukuchihō method. Yukimura could have gotten money for the doctor from Atobe after Yanagi researched into it.

Ryoma could have decided not to leave the pillar of Seigaku behind and come back to compete for the middle schoolers and then obtained power from the different dimension on his own. Tachibana could have altered abare dame such that it copies the ball into ten real balls instead of illusion ones. Sanada could have developed BA and combined with the speed of Rai to form an aura similar to the kishin. Krauser's Southern Cross could develop enough power to break through walls in a shot aimed at the body.

Chitose could have become so mentally strong that he is able to find a hole in TnK. With the right amount of training time I think that any of the players could have a full break through and reach the same level that Oni and Byoudin are at. Oni is a lot like an older more mature version of Kintarou (even in looks).Byoudin is different but he reminds me a bit of Krauser. With 3 years of training (as they are both freshmen) I think they can reach the same level as both Oni and Byoudin.

 

[Ninomiya]

Please Phantron. Breakdown edit your paragraphs smaller in your title post. Please lol.
Re-reading it is a chore.

 

[Phantron]

It's far from certain the guys beyond Oni and Byodouin can be surpassed. Gin could be the next Duke, or he might not. In the absence of the plot you can't say it one way or another. But since Oni and Byodouin are far stronger than anyone else in the U17 camp, even if the MS players did surpass these guys, I don't think that's enough to be crowned as the greatest generation.

Even if Oni and Byodouin never matched up against each other, both discovered the X-ball on their own. Even if you say X-ball is a plot device, that doesn't explain the fact that both have the 'cannot be seen by other players' property as early as H1. Also, Ryoma and Kintaro would've been rather ordinary if they didn't magically peaked so much in M1, simply because everyone else that was actually good was in M3 so in the next year, they wouldn't have anyone remotely good to play against and likely would've lost 2 years of their lives playing inferior competition.

 

[Ninomiya]

The middle schoolers in the camp wasted numbers 9 to 19 of the U-17 top 20, they also took over the 6th, 3rd, and 2nd courts, seeing as how they did this by wiping out high schooler after high schooler from the nation's top training camp, I would say this proves their talent, and they did this without Tezuka

Without Niou mastering his ability to Synchro with ANYBODY as long as he's in a pinch, Ochi/Mouri would have eaten Atobe/Niou alive.
So No.10/9 was a struggle I'd say.
Date completely trashed Kawamura/Kabaji pair, so No.12/13 was a struggle too.
No.17 ended up playing 3 or 2 players in a row immediately after one another. It was his own absolutely foolishness that cost him his badge since Yanagi got put to sleep like a little b*tch. Mitsuya lost his badge in one of the most pathetic ways.

Also, Ryoma and Kintaro would've been rather ordinary if they didn't magically peaked so much in M1, simply because everyone else that was actually good was in M3 so in the next year, they wouldn't have anyone remotely good to play against and likely would've lost 2 years of their lives playing inferior competition.

That's a good point. Had Ryoma gone to Yamabuki and Kintaro gone to Makinofuji they would be nowhere near as good as they are now. And those schools aren't too far from their own respective schools iirc.

But that's what makes it a gathering of giants.
MS 3rd Year is the most talented year in the series if you average out each character in each year at the camp.
And yeah, when the current 3rdYears go to their own HighSchools, Ryoma luckily has his dad's connections in the US to fall back on.
Kintaro has... Well I dunno what the hell kinda magic he did to get to where he was since his dad is a postman according to the databook whereas Ryoma's father is the Nation's Former No.1

During the nationals, the current generation of talent was referred to as the greatest gathering of talent in the last 10 years more than a few times. Obviously at the time there was no plan for NPOT presumably, but looking back, this statement seems pretty absurd. Sure, maybe Gin could be the next Duke in 3 years, or Fuji can be the next Tanegashima in the 3 years. But where is this generation's Byodouin and Oni?

All we need is for Tezuka/Yukimura/Atobe/Sanada to reach G10 level whilst their in 3rd Year. Just any two of them.
Or have 10ball or be able to compete with Oni whilst in this year. Its definitely possible too.
This question can't be answered yet since these guys aren't in HS 1st year yet lol.

 

[Hardy]

It's kinda easy... it has been mentioned before that Ms don't go to the camp, these guys did (and not only guys from 3rd year, even 12 year olds went there); got in; crushed almost everyone; Tezuka (14) left to become a pro; Yukimura, Sanada, Atobe and Niou have improved like monsters ... not to mention Momo (who mastered an OP technique), Kite (whose court coverage is prolly second to none), Shiraishi (his perfect stats are just a bit lower than the hyped Tokugawa) and a huge etc...

Kintarou and Ryoma, at 12, will be way better than Byoudouin and Oni when this ends (and the latter are both 17).

These guys are surely special, man.

---------- Post added at 03:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:55 PM ----------

Even Ryoga, who is presumably just an older Ryoma, was probably taught the glowing shot by Byodouin (at least he didn't deny it).

Why would be Byodouin impressed by the fact that Ryoga returned his glowing shot if he had taught him the move?

 

[Phantron]

The average talent of the POT generation, particularly the M3 group, is likely the highest. But that alone isn't enough to be called the greatest. Removing Ryoma and Kintaro for the moment, who are pretty much unlimited plot powerful, the most powerful/innovative guys in the M3 group are probably Tezuka and Yukimura. Both are likely to have a disastrously short career due to their playing style/illness. Sanada is powerful, but he seems to be a stickler for traditions and not particularly innovative (all his techniques are just extreme refinement of basic stuff), so discovering stuff like X-ball seems unlikely for a guy like him. Atobe clearly went a complete path from the X-ball. He most certainly would've completed Atobe Kingdom eventually (all that required is fancy U17 training, and he most certainly could've afforded his own professional coach anyway). After that you've a lot of talented guys like Shiraishi, WoK, and so on, but those guys are never going to be this generation's Oni or Byodouin.

To be fair Yukimura and Tezuka at least have the potential, but I believe Yukimura's recovery from his illness is described as miraculous and even then he's not really cured, and we know Tezuka is always one step away from a career ending injury. These two's health is a serious issue and it seemed like it took a lot of good luck for those two to even be able to still able to play tennis. I can easily see at the end of Nationals we have Tezuka suffer a career ending injury, followed by Yukimura collapsing on the court, and then Sanada lost motivation to play tennis.

 

[Hardy]

How does that change the fact that these guys are "the greatest gathering of talent in the last 10 years" in Ms?

 

[TheShiraishi]

Could be referring to the depth/amount of good middle schoolers (it's already been brought up how they have been able to defeat the high schoolers and take their courts), obviously Oni and Byodouin are well ahead of their grade, similar to Ryoma and Yukimura at the end of Nationals.

OR maybe you're taking Konomi's quote that's now 5 years old a bit too seriously ;x

 

[redhairSH]

Without Niou mastering his ability to Synchro with ANYBODY as long as he's in a pinch, Ochi/Mouri would have eaten Atobe/Niou alive.
So No.10/9 was a struggle I'd say.
Date completely trashed Kawamura/Kabaji pair, so No.12/13 was a struggle too.
No.17 ended up playing 3 or 2 players in a row immediately after one another. It was his own absolutely foolishness that cost him his badge since Yanagi got put to sleep like a little b*tch. Mitsuya lost his badge in one of the most pathetic ways.

Niou being able to synchro with anyone takes major talent, Kawamura destroyed the tennis court lights, major talent with power, Inui defeated no 17, who didn't look remotely exhausted when they played, and had way better physical abilities than inui, according to stats, inui defeating the teacher of the one who he learned data tennis from when they had better physical abilities takes talent

---------- Post added at 04:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ----------

All we need is for Tezuka/Yukimura/Atobe/Sanada to reach G10 level whilst their in 3rd Year. Just any two of them.
Or have 10ball or be able to compete with Oni whilst in this year. Its definitely possible too.
This question can't be answered yet since these guys aren't in HS 1st year yet lol.

Tezuka, Yukimura, Atobe, and Sanada are all already G10 level, Atobe is in the G10, Tezuka has the same stats but he also has PoP, Yukimura is a lot better than Niou, who is number 10, and he made the old number 11 look like a bitch, Sanada might be the new number 2 soon, he completely broke number 6's techique

 

[Phantron]

Could be referring to the depth/amount of good middle schoolers (it's already been brought up how they have been able to defeat the high schoolers and take their courts), obviously Oni and Byodouin are well ahead of their grade, similar to Ryoma and Yukimura at the end of Nationals.

OR maybe you're taking Konomi's quote that's now 5 years old a bit too seriously ;x

I'm sure it's taking it too seriously, but it's funny because you see both the concept of this generation being special and not at the same time. For example in the Atobe doubles game the coach says 'now you will know the true power of the U17 1st strings". After Gin got defeated Hirakara said they must be playing against a bunch of unimaginable monsters. Of course on the other hand, the U17 camp did sent Oni to scare the MSers players. Looking in retrospect it doesn't seem like anyone besides him, Byodouin, or Ryoga possibly could've even used that racket effectively let alone still win a set with it, so indeed the MSer are supposed to be quite respectable.

 

[-Ken-]

Not to mention comparing them right now to HS wouldn't be fair. It's "talent", not to say "strength" or something like that. Give the current generation 3 years. and then try comparing the two generation by pitting them together with the current MS. The current generation doesn't do too badly, I'll say, right now. I don't think it's wrong to call them the greatest gathering of talent.

 

[Phantron]

Not to mention comparing them right now to HS wouldn't be fair. It's "talent", not to say "strength" or something like that. Give the current generation 3 years. and then try comparing the two generation by pitting them together with the current MS. The current generation doesn't do too badly, I'll say, right now. I don't think it's wrong to call them the greatest gathering of talent.

Since all the guys in POT are clearly on some kind of drugs for their body to develop so fast, I don't think being 3 or more years younger has any effect on stuff like stamina or strength. I know they claim it does occasionally, but aside from Gin vs Duke I haven't seen any game where someone lost because they have a weaker body.

 

[floman]

Since all the guys in POT are clearly on some kind of drugs for their body to develop so fast, I don't think being 3 or more years younger has any effect on stuff like stamina or strength. I know they claim it does occasionally, but aside from Gin vs Duke I haven't seen any game where someone lost because they have a weaker body.

It's not just a weaker body. Everything improves with practice. In a year Fuji could develop insane new counters that are strong enough to return the glowing shot. Sanada could strengthen Rai to the point where it is as strong as the glowing shot. In a couple of years Sanada could have played Yukimura a couple of times and greatly strenghtened his mental strength too. They are all factors that play into matches.

 

[jimtors]

Yukimura was called the child of God.... He earned it while he was in Middle school and all the other MSers.... I guess the writer means that their talents are so great none like their generation has been since in the past 10 years or so. but they just can't seem to show it.. ^__^