The immortality of the 13 Great Warriors

[kkck]

I think it's logical the things they accomplish in the tower will be taken to the outside with them. That's what the premise of the tower, no? The goal of any climber is finish all the tests and leave the place, not stay there. It's the same as a dungeon where you enter it after powers, treasures and special itens.

That's not a promise we've ever been shown. At the start of the story we were cryptically told that everything could be found at the top but in actual fact no one has ever reached the top. At the moment even reaching floor 135 is impossible. And we don't know if that even is the last floor. Also... it's just about certain that tower items will be about worthless outside. Since shinsoo does not exist outside the tower, the vast majority of items in the tower simply can't function outside. Nothing that runs on shinsoo can work or be all that useful outside the tower. Maybe spell item... And the same applies to power acquired in the tower. It's almost certainly going to disappear in an environment without shinsoo.

 

[Wha]

So, all these points made me wonder, what if there are actually members of the tower stronger than the leaders of the families? For it is the only reason I see for an immortality contract to exist, of course, assuming there is nothing else.

I agree, it could be some kind of safeguard to assure that Irregulars have the time to give the tower "what he needs", without worrying about death - unless it's a new irregular that is here to fulfill the towers (new) wishes. Or it was due to their own greed and the contract isn't really necessary at all.

To me it'd be strange if contracts made in the tower worked outside of it.

If they are Shinsoo related, then you are probably right. If they are some kind of "ultimate spell", then it doesn't have to be that way.

And the same applies to power acquired in the tower. It's almost certainly going to disappear in an environment without shinsoo.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. What about the passive benefits of shinsoo? Quant once said that his body is like steel due to the high shinsoo pressure he endured during and after his climb. I don't think that you would loose that by example.

 

[kkck]

If they are Shinsoo related, then you are probably right. If they are some kind of "ultimate spell", then it doesn't have to be that way.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. What about the passive benefits of shinsoo? Quant once said that his body is like steel due to the high shinsoo pressure he endured during and after his climb. I don't think that you would loose that by example.

I suppose that depends on the entity which grants the spell. Can you imagine a spell which stops working in the 43rd floor working outside the tower? We know contracts are void there and they might be related to or be spells. If all contracts are void in the 43rd floor then that probably applies even to the immortality contracts the family heads have (which goes to show how few fucks gives about tower residents). I suppose there are entities great enough that their power would work inside and outside the tower but my bet would be against guardians in this case.

Maybe? It's hard to say what would happen to that. And it would basically benefit people whose affinity is towards powerful bodies, like zahard. Gustang would be kinda fucked since without shinsoo he looses basically everything in this scenario.

 

[Wha]

I suppose that depends on the entity which grants the spell. Can you imagine a spell which stops working in the 43rd floor working outside the tower? We know contracts are void there and they might be related to or be spells. If all contracts are void in the 43rd floor then that probably applies even to the immortality contracts the family heads have (which goes to show how few fucks gives about tower residents). I suppose there are entities great enough that their power would work inside and outside the tower but my bet would be against guardians in this case.

Maybe? It's hard to say what would happen to that. And it would basically benefit people whose affinity is towards powerful bodies, like zahard. Gustang would be kinda fucked since without shinsoo he looses basically everything in this scenario.

Well, look at Karaka's armor by example. It's a spell related item and it seemed to me like it worked quite fine there. So i think that it depends on the spell, or, contracts are no spells at all.
But would the armor work outside of the tower? I have got no idea.
Would Hoaqin's soul devouring power work outside of it?
If Guardians can use spells and Arlene was a spellcaster before she entered the tower (was that part ever mentioned?), some of their powers might keep working outside of it.

Since we know of no one who left (maybe Phanta or Enryu, but that matter isn't really clear Edit: And Arlene of course, but although she might be dead -which would mean that she was free of the immortality contract once she got outside- we do not know for sure) the tower, you are right, it's just a guess. But i can't think of a reason why it shouldn't work. Sure, they would probably age again, maybe even faster than the average person (depends on the contract issue).

That's why i picked Quant as my example. If his body is like steel, i am pretty damn sure that Gustang's is at the very least at that level (most likely way higher).
He got spells at his disposal, looks like a genius and was able to hone his skills (which are not all shinsoo related) for thousands of years. I think he would do just fine (except if he runs into monsters like Urek or Axis or...?).

 

[kkck]

Well, look at Karaka's armor by example. It's a spell related item and it seemed to me like it worked quite fine there. So i think that it depends on the spell, or, contracts are no spells at all.
But would the armor work outside of the tower? I have got no idea.
Would Hoaqin's soul devouring power work outside of it?
If Guardians can use spells and Arlene was a spellcaster before she entered the tower (was that part ever mentioned?), some of their powers might keep working outside of it.

Since we know of no one who left (maybe Phanta or Enryu, but that matter isn't really clear Edit: And Arlene of course, but although she might be dead -which would mean that she was free of the immortality contract once she got outside- we do not know for sure) the tower, you are right, it's just a guess. But i can't think of a reason why it shouldn't work. Sure, they would probably age again, maybe even faster than the average person (depends on the contract issue).

That's why i picked Quant as my example. If his body is like steel, i am pretty damn sure that Gustang's is at the very least at that level (most likely way higher).
He got spells at his disposal, looks like a genius and was able to hone his skills (which are not all shinsoo related) for thousands of years. I think he would do just fine (except if he runs into monsters like Urek or Axis or...?).

Sure, but my understanding here is that it is specifically contracts with administrators that are void in the 43rd floor. The armor spell in that sense doesn't tell us much. Even if contracts are spells, the fact that the armor spell comes from someone else could have a critical roll in how things play out. We have seen a ton of spell related stuff work in the floor of death for that matter. The ladle, the immortality spell...

I am a bit more inclined to thinking hoaquin's soul devouring spell is more likely than the armor to work outside the tower. Unless souls outside are fundamentally different from those inside the tower... Or the mechanics of the soul devouring spell specifically require space within the tower.

I think spells working inside and outside the tower would ultimately depend on the being who granted the spell. Administrator Contracts I would maintain are extremely likely to be worthless outside the tower though.

Spells are a bit of an iffy power IMO, I don't think they should be regarded the same way as shinsoo control in terms of what they grant. Spells are more arbitrary and rely heavily on third parties. And still, since shinsoo control is likely impossible outside the tower then gustang, whose main deal is shinsoo control, is likely to suffer more from its lose than someone like zahard whose body is a nigh indestructible tank. I am all for gustang being able to fist fight a full powered reinforced kallavan with his eyes closed and without reinforcement but his apparently main fighting style definitely suffers compared to zahard's in a shinsoo-less environment.

 

[Wha]

Sure, but my understanding here is that it is specifically contracts with administrators that are void in the 43rd floor. The armor spell in that sense doesn't tell us much. Even if contracts are spells, the fact that the armor spell comes from someone else could have a critical roll in how things play out. We have seen a ton of spell related stuff work in the floor of death for that matter. The ladle, the immortality spell...

I am a bit more inclined to thinking hoaquin's soul devouring spell is more likely than the armor to work outside the tower. Unless souls outside are fundamentally different from those inside the tower... Or the mechanics of the soul devouring spell specifically require space within the tower.

I think spells working inside and outside the tower would ultimately depend on the being who granted the spell. Administrator Contracts I would maintain are extremely likely to be worthless outside the tower though.

Spells are a bit of an iffy power IMO, I don't think they should be regarded the same way as shinsoo control in terms of what they grant. Spells are more arbitrary and rely heavily on third parties. And still, since shinsoo control is likely impossible outside the tower then gustang, whose main deal is shinsoo control, is likely to suffer more from its lose than someone like zahard whose body is a nigh indestructible tank. I am all for gustang being able to fist fight a full powered reinforced kallavan with his eyes closed and without reinforcement but his apparently main fighting style definitely suffers compared to zahard's in a shinsoo-less environment.

I don't know for sure. What about Garam? She hides there, for a few hundred years or more? She did not trade her soul for "immortality", yet she doesn't seem to age. Could be that it just seems that way, could also be that it really is the case, which would mean that some contracts are still valid.


You mean because of the teleportation device, that would send Karaka most likely into a dimension inside the tower? If so, i agree that it is not likely, but it doesn't have to be impossible. We have two examples of people that "just appeared out of nowhere" inside the tower.



Hard to tell - it still depends on what exactly contracts are. If they are purely shinsoo related, then yes. If not, it could be.

I am still not sure if someone like a family head needs other beings to strengthen his spells (inside the tower). If they do need them, who are they? The only creatures that are ahead of the heads are the guardians (from what we know til now).

I agree, Zahard would be better of than Gustang, but i think gustang would still have benefits from his time inside the tower (if he is able to leave). Like this; Zahard comes in with a body made of steel and leaves with a body that is hard like a diamond. Gustang comes in with a "normal body" and leaves with a body of steel.