Shounen The Prince of Tennis by Konomi Takeshi

[Babii-Boo]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

-And Babii, Do you not remember my diagram? the two doors are in the same location, right next to eachother.

Memory refreshed. ^^"
So the Pinnacle of Hark Work & Great Wisdom are at the same level. The Pinnacle of Perfection however, is at a level higher: Diagram by Fayte

~ Just a side note, please keep all discussions friendly.

 

[rankgain]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

Nice diagram. :P But is the fact that those two doors are next to each actually stated in the manga, or is it inferred? I don't remember anything like that.

 

[Shiraishi]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

I am not talking about Kanto Sanada
I talking about 2nd year sanada that already had FuuRinKaZan
You can think wathever you want but if Rikkadai advance to the finals fuji has big chances to face Sanada
And you are saying that i have no idea of what i am saying when you said that Sanada will open the Pinacle of Perfection LOL
I know that you are a Sanada fan but c´mon

 

[dandy65]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

I'd say Yukimura is stronger than Sanada...after all, it's the Captain that's always strongest? Plus Sanada holds respect for Yukimura so I guess Yukimura is actually strong...

 

[Requiem]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

Sanada in the past 2 years didn't need to develop some new shot, other than FuuRinKaZan, because he was always winning. When you win, you really don't care to improve because you don't see where are your limits, but now is a little different, Sanada lost at Kanto so "maybe" he have developped something.
I said "maybe" because at Kanto he used only 2 moves of the FuuRinKaZan and entered in SoSA just for one point, so do you really think that if Sanada uses FuuRinKaZan at full power in SoSA needs to improve ?

 

[Shiraishi]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

I know that Sanda at that time didnt need to improve that wasnt my point
He needs to improve beacause do you think that with FuuRinKaZan at full power in SoSA can beat somethink like Saiki Kanpatsu or HyakuRen Jitoke plus when Yuki tells him that he would lost against Atobe(he could evolve so i will not say he lost) i think that he knows that he needs to improve

 

[Fayte]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

Chitose made it clear that the two doors are at the same level, just a different way to achieve them. He also made it clear that the pinnacle of perfection was at a whole different level, so I think my diagram is worthy to say the least.

And to make it easier for you to understand what I am saying Shiraishi:

In Kantou, who was the strongest? Sanada.
In Kantou, who was the last antagonist? Sanada.
In Kantou, who were the first to develop SoSA? Sanada, Yukimura, and Chitose.

Sanada lost against Echizen, and Yukimura who's opinion is greatly influenced said he would have lost to Atobe (who he has beaten before)

Knowing Sanada, who is probably the hardest worker out of any tennis player when it comes to improving, Do you honestly think it is farfetched to think he and Yukimura will be the first to achieve the Pinnacle of Perfection? They where the first to achieve SoSA. Plus they are the last team to vs in the Nationals, which suggests they are the strongest players yet with impressive new improvement we have yet to see.

Just because Yukimura is the captain, and Sanada is the vice captain, does not mean Yukimura is better. Oishi is seigaku's vice captain. Does that mean he is better than Fuji?

I'm not saying Yukimura is not better than Sanada. I'm saying it would be ignorant for us to just say he is without even seeing him play. Yes Sanada holds respect for him. It doesn't mean it is just because Yukimura is better than him. It could just be Sanada having respect for the one put in a higher power.

But yes, that is my theory. Sanada or Yukimura or both, will be the first to achieve the pinnacle of perfection. Chitose said Tezuka was probably the closest. However, Chitose was not watching Rikkaidai. The reason I think this is simply because if anybody on seigaku achieved this before Rikkaidai, The matches would not be hard to win. Its only natural that the last team you fight is the best yet, and it requires yourself to evolve to beat them.

 

[Babii-Boo]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

The reason I think this is simply because if anybody on seigaku achieved this before Rikkaidai, The matches would not be hard to win. Its only natural that the last team you fight is the best yet, and it requires yourself to evolve to beat them.

If that's the case then we can say that Kirihara can achieve the Pinnacle of Perfection as well. What you are saying right now are all based on opinion, right?

Also, we are forgetting about the 2 rookies - Ryoma & Tooyama - who are the main characters said to be able to achieve the Pinnacle of Perfection.

 

[Wololo]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

Pot is turning more and more dbzish with each chapter. It's hard to believe that at the beginning it was a sports manga.

 

[Shiraishi]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

I respect your opinion
Back on topic: Zaizen will be able to return the Zero Shiki Serve?

 

[Fayte]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

If that's the case then we can say that Kirihara can achieve the Pinnacle of Perfection as well. What you are saying right now are all based on opinion, right?

Kirihara is not at the level of Sanada and Yukimura.

: Topic :

I have faith in Zaizen. He is one of my favorite characters and I wouldn't be suprised if he did return the serve. He is known as a genius after all.

 

[Dansan1]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

Fayte,

Your opinions are obviously not taking into account any knowledge of literary techniques and devices. They seem to be influenced more by fandom.

You are overlooking the the extreme reverence the author has placed on the Pinnacle of Perfection. Only person in the last decade. Who was that again. Oh yeah! Ryoma's dad. The person who has been established as his symbolic greatest hurdle. The story is about Ryoma's growth, the Pinnacle of Perfection is PURELY a literary technique to show his growth in relation to his father's.

When Chitose said the Tooyama was closest, this isn't the author saying he will get it. This is the author demonstrating how strong Tooyama is, without having to illustrate a match.

Only one person is going to achieve it, and we're dumb if we dont' know who that is. (Unless of course Ryoma achieves it here in the Shitenhouji match, then of course it is free game for any character)

It is also COMPLETELY possible for Rikkaidai not to be in the finals. (I don't know at this point). Another COMMON literary tactic for introducing strength of an entity without showing it, is to have it defeat some other previously established strength. (a mini scale would be the introduction of Fudomine). I would however be disappointed not to see Yukimura play Echizen (which will happen if Rikkaidai makes it), but I would be happy either way.

As you said, Sanda was the man at Kantou, literary rules 101: the main character never jumps a hurdle twice, He will not be the focus of the nationals.

Just in reading the nationals you can already see the focus. Tooyama and Yukimura. Remember the MAIN focus of the story is Ryoma's growth. Ryoma will not play Sanada again, and we can therefore assume that Sanada won't stand in the spotlight. Sanada has fallen to the wayside. Atobe surpassed him. Why was that mentioned? Not to show Sanada's growth! It was to show Ryoma's growth.

Think of it as a race, and each match a hurdle. Ryoma won't double back to jumb a hurdle he already has cleared. (Even if it wasn't Sanada at his absolute best, we're not talking real world, we're talking literary technique. Once Ryoma beats someone, he never plays them again {to demonstrate growth that is, he may play them on other levels})

And NO ONE is blindly assuming Yukimura to be stronger than Sanada. We are taking into account everything the author has done (the reverence from Sanada, the Yukimura - Atobe encounter, ect ect.) Besides looking at it a it's most basic level, you also have to take into account what Konomi has said about Yukimura in interviews.


You're blinding thinking the author is going to treat Sanada fairly. News flash, ONLY the main character gets treated fairly. Only the main character (/team too in this case) get to grow. How many other teams/players had real growth drawn? None. Not Hyotei, not Fudomine, not Yamabuki, and Rikkaidai will be no exception. Sanada won't grow. He may show power that wasn't shown before, but he will not grow as a player. Atobe was only shown growth to be a new hurdle for Ryoma.



As an aside.

I'm stumped for what will happen to Fuji (the man) if Rikkaidai should make it to the finals. Unless Tezuka is taken out in his current match, then what's left for Fuji? I DON"T WANT TO SEE HIM IN DOUBLES FOR THE CHAMPIONSHIP!!!! Although rereading makes me lean towards Rikkaidai losing in the semis. (I want to see Yukimura )

 

[Donkey Show]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

IF Rikkaidai were to lose, it'd probably be similar to how Fudomine was shown to lose. Not exactly, but I'm sure there would be at least a match shown with Yukimura and Nagoya singles 1.

I think it'd be fitting for Seigaku to take on Nagoya in the end. I mean, once you're on top of Japan, what's next... The world, which is what Nagoya represents. It's perfect for Ryoma, who will more likely achieve the Pinnacle of Perfection, to beat those representing the tennis strength outside of Japan.

As for this match, I'm undecided on how it's going to go. As much as Zaizen is a genius, it's rather obvious himself and Inui are way out of their league. Then again, Konomi-sensei has surprised us before, so we'll see.

 

[Dansan1]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

"The world, which is what Nagoya represents."

Excelent observation. I think you nailed one more nail in Rikkai's coffin. It might also be possible for Konomi to show a completely crushed Yukimura sans actually illustrating the matche, the way they did with Tachibana to establish Kirihara.

 

[Donkey Show]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

Maybe not so much a crushed Yukimura, considering there's been a build up as to him being a really good player, but I'd like to see him go down fighting with some of his skills and maybe open up a door or two.

But there's too much of a significance of Nagoya showing up and being all foreign players, which I have stated in my last post.

 

[aznboiray]

Re: Where to find old PoT chapters

i just read them at barns and nobles or mangatraders.com

 

[Aviation]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

Fayte,

Your opinions are obviously not taking into account any knowledge of literary techniques and devices. They seem to be influenced more by fandom.

You are overlooking the the extreme reverence the author has placed on the Pinnacle of Perfection. Only person in the last decade. Who was that again. Oh yeah! Ryoma's dad. The person who has been established as his symbolic greatest hurdle. The story is about Ryoma's growth, the Pinnacle of Perfection is PURELY a literary technique to show his growth in relation to his father's.

When Chitose said the Tooyama was closest, this isn't the author saying he will get it. This is the author demonstrating how strong Tooyama is, without having to illustrate a match.

Only one person is going to achieve it, and we're dumb if we dont' know who that is. (Unless of course Ryoma achieves it here in the Shitenhouji match, then of course it is free game for any character)

It is also COMPLETELY possible for Rikkaidai not to be in the finals. (I don't know at this point). Another COMMON literary tactic for introducing strength of an entity without showing it, is to have it defeat some other previously established strength. (a mini scale would be the introduction of Fudomine). I would however be disappointed not to see Yukimura play Echizen (which will happen if Rikkaidai makes it), but I would be happy either way.

As you said, Sanda was the man at Kantou, literary rules 101: the main character never jumps a hurdle twice, He will not be the focus of the nationals.

Just in reading the nationals you can already see the focus. Tooyama and Yukimura. Remember the MAIN focus of the story is Ryoma's growth. Ryoma will not play Sanada again, and we can therefore assume that Sanada won't stand in the spotlight. Sanada has fallen to the wayside. Atobe surpassed him. Why was that mentioned? Not to show Sanada's growth! It was to show Ryoma's growth.

Think of it as a race, and each match a hurdle. Ryoma won't double back to jumb a hurdle he already has cleared. (Even if it wasn't Sanada at his absolute best, we're not talking real world, we're talking literary technique. Once Ryoma beats someone, he never plays them again {to demonstrate growth that is, he may play them on other levels})

And NO ONE is blindly assuming Yukimura to be stronger than Sanada. We are taking into account everything the author has done (the reverence from Sanada, the Yukimura - Atobe encounter, ect ect.) Besides looking at it a it's most basic level, you also have to take into account what Konomi has said about Yukimura in interviews.


You're blinding thinking the author is going to treat Sanada fairly. News flash, ONLY the main character gets treated fairly. Only the main character (/team too in this case) get to grow. How many other teams/players had real growth drawn? None. Not Hyotei, not Fudomine, not Yamabuki, and Rikkaidai will be no exception. Sanada won't grow. He may show power that wasn't shown before, but he will not grow as a player. Atobe was only shown growth to be a new hurdle for Ryoma.



As an aside.

I'm stumped for what will happen to Fuji (the man) if Rikkaidai should make it to the finals. Unless Tezuka is taken out in his current match, then what's left for Fuji? I DON"T WANT TO SEE HIM IN DOUBLES FOR THE CHAMPIONSHIP!!!! Although rereading makes me lean towards Rikkaidai losing in the semis. (I want to see Yukimura )

Well its good you think you have knowledge of what will happen, but NEWS FLASH! this isn't some novel you think you can predict just because you read a couple of fairy tales. Konomi can do whatever he wants. He doesn't need to follow some imaginary rules of Literature. You think that just because Sanada lost in Kantou that he will not be any different in the Nationals? How ignorant.

Rikkaidai not make it to the finals? They lost in Kantou, and this is their chance to try again. Konomi make the strongest enemy team lose before the main event? LAWL!

You are most likely another Fuji fan like 75% of PoT fans. ZOMG FUJI DID ANOTHER COUNTER! HE LEET! I'm going to laugh when everything you say gets proven wrong when they get to the finals.

I don't even like Sanada, but I disagree with what you said about him being finished showing us what he can do.

 

[Fayte]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

But there's too much of a significance of Nagoya showing up and being all foreign players, which I have stated in my last post.

I will not bother writing about anything dansan said but I will comment on this. Yukimura is at Tezuka's level. When Rikkaidai vs'd Seigaku in Kantou, They were both without Tezuka and Yukimura. Now that they are BOTH back in the Nationals, A rematch is the only thing fitting. I personally think that Nagoya will just be there to show Rikkaidai's improvement, not the opposite. If Nagoya wins, it will throw off the entire storyline and hopes for an exciting rematch.

When Nagoya stepped up with all foreign exchange students, Sanada said something along the lines of "Crush them." with a serious face. Rikkaidai (unlike last time) is serious about winning. They wont lose to some randoms.

If you were Konomi, would you rather think of all new techniques for these people we haven't seen before? or will he expand on the players we have already encountered?

I personally think ever since Shitenhouji, Konomi is tired of make up these new techniques for new players. I don't think he will pull a Shitenhouji with Nagoya. At least with Shitenhouji, Echizen and Kintarou met way before the nationals started. That way we have some insight about the team. We know nothing about Nagoya, so I don't think we will start now.

-About Kirihara and Tachibana:

Kirihara was shown in the anime long before that match. It is highly unlikely Konomi will make Rikkaidai lose to a bunch of randoms.

Thats just my opinion.

You are most likely another Fuji fan like 75% of PoT fans. ZOMG FUJI DID ANOTHER COUNTER! HE LEET!

Lol, I've noticed that as well. Most PoT fans like Fuji.

 

[Dansan1]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

I do like Fuji. What did that have to do with ANY of my post. Unlike others, I like my characters, but am not silly enough to forget that the manga is about RYOMA. I don't let my love for certain characters blind me to the development of the story.

Aviation,

I NEVER wrote that I know will happen. I wrote I know what will NOT happen. Yes, Konomi can do WHATEVER HE WANTS. Oh wait, you must have no knowledge of how commerical manga works(or for that matter any commercial ficiton). If you think he has complete control over POT you're nuts and very ignorant. His editors have a HUGE say in what happens. If makes a decision that they think the fans will hate. Guess what, he has to aquiessece to them, not the other way around. How many of you think Tezuka will learn to fly? But wait, Konomi can do ANYTHING right?

I wouldn't say I've read some fairy tales. I would say that I grew up loving manga and majored in Japanese literature with a minor in French literature.

Art has NO RULES. Correct. It does however have form. These 'imaginary rules of literature' you mentioned, aren't rules, they are form and they aren't imaginary. Anyone who has studied fiction can see it's underlying form. That's what makes it beautiful. Writing without form reads like crap. If YOU can't see it, that is YOUR problem. I am not making it up. You are simply ignorant of it.

You called me ignorant. You mean't unintuitive. Get a dictionary. Ignorant means a lack of knowledge of a particular subject. Since I have as much access to POT as you My opinions cannot be any more ignorant than yours, you meant that my opinion wasn't very good based on the data (which I disagree obviously). That's not ignorancy. Ignorancy is lack of data. We both have the same 335 chapters to go on. However my opinons are probably bit more informed, considering I've probably read 10 times the amount of manga/japanese writing than you have. You are the one who seems to be ignorant of how to write, how to interpret fiction, and of the underlying form that can be found in all good fiction. How old are you?

I also NEVER said Rikkaidai won't make it to the finals. I said it's POSSIBLE they won't. You're the one seeming to set things in stone by saying they will. Did you not read anything I wrote about Yukimura being a major focus right now? It was HALF my post.

What did I say that could be proven wrong? I made no definite statments about Rikkaidai's success. I even said I want to see Yukimura in the finals! I have been looking forward to Echizen-Yukimura since 200 chapters ago! I even cited evidence they would be there, the statements Konomi made about Yukimura's strength in some of his interviews makes you think that he can't throw Yuki away. (but he may yet)

How in the world can you say it is "highly unlikely Konomi will .. . . " when you seem to know jack about writing ficition! I thought you were the one saying YOU CANT know what will happen.

You citing Rikkai losing it Kantou is not good evidence. So did Yamabuki, Fudomine and Hyotei. They are NOT the strongest team as of now. Whoever makes it to the finals are the strongest, and as you said we CANT know that yet.

Nagoya winning would NOT throw off the storyline. The storyline isn't about Rikkai. It isn't EVEN ABOUT SEIGAKU in the end. The manga has not been Rikkai v Seigaku, like you seem to think. It's about Ryoma. Rikkai losing, won't effect the demonstraing of Ryoma's development in the least bit. If he had NEVER played them, then that would be a different story (unless he played a team that beat them).

There is only ONE keyword for POT : Ryoma. There is only a certain amount of leeway in ignoring Ryoma, and that leeway only comes in the middle of a series. We're too late in POT now.

I DID NOT say Sanada is finished showing us what he can do. Did you not read when I said he may DO EXACTLY that. What I did say is that Konomi will not illustrate growth on his part. Antagonists do NOT grow, unless they become protagonists. If you can cite one real example of an author showing the development of an antognist's growth it would be like finding the missing link of manga. Antagonists don't grow as people . And sorry to say, Sanada is not a protagonist yet.(Vegeta in Dragonball, Anubis in Ronin Warriors, ect.)[br]Posted on: February 23, 2007, 06:58:33 PM_________________________________________________Upon rereading both my posts I am disgusted with the way they read.

I hereby apologize for what seems abrasive. Conversational tone is impossible in written communication, and what might be taken as rude or yelling, I only meant for emphasis. Perhaps I should have used italics not that I think about it. In any case, my posts reads a bit rude. For that I am sincerely sorry. I respect all opinions, but I in this case I truly believe mine is probably a bit more informed (informed does not make me right though, so don't take that comment that way)


The sum of my posts can be said in this : I think it is folly to place any signifigance on Sanada at this point. I think the ones we should be watching and expecting great things from are Yukimura, Tooyama, and of course the Prince.

 

[HikaruYami]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this possibility (too lazy to read it), but I think that, as everyone expects, Tezuka will own here, and then, since Seigaku will already have 3 wins, Ryoma loses the next match (why else would the mangaka have made such a huge deal about this guy up till now, bigger than any other tough opponent Ryoma's ever had), getting his first defeat in an official match ever, then after the nationals are over (or at whatever point) has a rematch with the boy!

Of course, if Tezuka is SOMEHOW defeated, then my theory goes down the drain and Ryoma just barely pulls of a win.

Edit: Oh yeah, and when I say bigger deal, I don't mean like the story focuses more on him, I mean like his pure strength is stressed even more than... anyone's? Especially when the one who analyzed the three doors for the first time said that the kid was the closest person to the pinnacle of perfection.