Shounen The Prince of Tennis by Konomi Takeshi

[Dansan1]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

If Tezuka wins Ryoma won't even play. They only play all five matches in the opening rounds.

I think it is possible for Zaizen and Inui to take over (or take a bigger role) and then have Seigaku lose. But we pretty much know that somehow Seigaku is going down in the current match.

Do they have a national singles tournament? Where the players represent themselves? Anyone think we'll get to see that? I don't, but I'd love to.

Didn't Konomi talk about ending the series soon? Or was that just a question thrown at him?

 

[Fayte]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

Antagonists do NOT grow, unless they become protagonists.

This is the only thing I disagree with. Antagonists grow to let Protagonists grow. It is shown in many different series that I have seen (Bleach, Naruto etc).

 

[Dansan1]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

Could you cite me some of the Antongonists the grew in Naruto? (this question isn't meant to sound accusatory as it may in writing, sincecerely asking.)

Note Sasukes' growth does not fall in line. He was a protagonist before and only became a true antongonist in Shippuden, and hasn't grown since, it's been too early, and he may yet become good. I haven't read Bleach merely out of stubborness (a little back story there).

Antagonists often reveal more power that was hidden, but that isn't growth. Generally a defeated antagonist(truly defeated) is discarded or made a backround character. I hesitate to cite DBZ as it is a poor example.

 

[Fayte]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

The character in naruto I was thinking of was Itachi. When sasuke was a kid, he tried to fight Itachi and he failed. Years later, he fought Itachi again thinking he stood more of a chance now that he has grew. However Itachi also grew himself, leaving Sasuke with the need to improve even more.

In Bleach it is Byakuya. Ichigo lost to Byakuya the first time he encountered him. Which led Ichigo to improve more in order to beat him.

Those are just two examples that came to mind first.

 

[Dansan1]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

That was a flashback to how Itachi was before the manga timeline. It isn't considered growth, because Itachi is still the same as he has been every time we have seen him in the present.. The same way showing how Ryoma might of played back in America would not be showing his growth. Backstory doesn't fall under growth when talking about fiction. I am very confident that we will not see any growth on his present character, because antagonists generally don't.


Of course antagonists and back characters must be shown to not be stationary characters, otherwise they would fall flat and the manga would fail. But growth of a character refers to their personal journey in the present tense. Their histories do not fall under this category. Otherwise all characters can be said to be shown growth. Just like we know Orochimaru wasn't always like this, we've seen lots of flashbacks, but they aren't showing Orochimaru's growth, they are showing how he got to where is now. Growth's literature connotation is a present journey.

An example is we saw Sarutobi (the Third) as a child in flashbacks and as an adult. However we saw no growth in his present character, because he was a minor player (you know what I mean when I say minor)

Sorry, the Bleach reference is lost on me. But if Byakua is the antagonist, how did he grow by having Ichigo (I assume the main character) beat him later? Isn't that only Ichigo's growth?

 

[Fayte]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

You said Antagonists are not stationary characters. Doesn't that show evidence that could prove Antagonists indeed grow? If they are not stationary, it suggests they change from their past state.

I don't know, I just find it hard to believe Itachi stayed the same from when he killed his parents, to after he and Kisame visit Konoha. I just don't believe he didn't improve at all.

-And forget about what I said about bleach. If you don't follow the series its not understandable. Bleach isn't your average anime.

 

[Dansan1]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

I am not saying he didn't. What I am saying is when you read a novel, a character's growth refers to the present tense. He grew in the past, now that he is introduced he won't.

When I say they aren't stationary, that means throughout their life. During the story (the part we see in real time) they do not grow, because it is irrelative to the protagonists journey. Rather than complicating a storyline an author will establish a level of an antagonist(which may include how he grew to be at that level), and then show the growth of a protagonist by how he measures up to the antagonist over time.

It is muddling to have the antagonist grow in real time, which is why authors avoid it.


Understand what I am trying to say? Even I admit this is hard to communicate in short blurb posts.

(I don't watch any anime, most I would rather stab out my eyes. I do however read much manga, I watched a little of POT after I got into the manga, and wanted to cry. Movies I sometimes do though. Like RK )


Keep in mind that antagonist not growing does not refer to the rival archetype, which while generally grouped under antagonist, I believe to be really a seperate entity.

PS. Well I have to be off now, I actually have a tennis match, coincidence? I think not.

 

[Fayte]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

Forgive me if I'm not making this very clear. I can't find the correct way to put this.

If a character changes for the better, from past to present, it can be considered "growth". I know what you are saying about characters only being able to grow during present times. Yes that growth may be the growth that we physically see, but that to me, doesn't mean the Antagonists do not grow simply because we don't see them grow.

Anyway I'm getting way off track to my point I was trying to make. You seem to be very knowledgeable of PoT, so I will make a reference to that. In the Echizen vs Sanada match, Echizen had to grow to overcome Sanada's FuuRinKaZan. When Echizen grew, He at that moment was overpowering Sanada. Then to further advance Echizen, Sanada needed to grow more (SoSA). Then Echizen needed to grow further to defeat Sanada.

That is my example of how Antagonists growth helps Protagonists.

PS. - I don't believe in coincidences :P

 

[Dansan1]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

That's a good example that can help demonstrate my point. What I mean is that Echizen grew to deal with Sanada's Fuurinkazan. But Sanada activating SOSA was not growth, it was him revealing unrevealed strength. He could already activate SOSA before the match. Echizen became stronger than he was prior to the match, whereas Sanada merely got a little more serious. The same way Fuji showing Hakugei wasn't growth, but learning Hakuryu was.

I feel so stupid putting it like this but.....


Let's say Echizen was lv 6 at the beginning of the match.

And Sanada Lv. 9.

During the match Sanada was only playing at lv 7.

Echizen leveled up to 8 to fight that.

Then Sanada started playing at 9.

Sanada's total abilities didn't grow throughout the match, Echizen's did. That is the literature growth connotation.

It's clear to me though were we differed. Taken completely literally, yes characters grow. But the phrase 'character growth' is not so general. It is literary term that refers to the protagonists mental and physical journey that the entire story is about. That's what I meant when I said antagonists don't grow. They don't go through that journey during the story, because it isn't their story. Where many things often go awry in discussions, we simply had not agreed on a definition of terms beforehand.

 

[Babii-Boo]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

[mod=Babii-Boo]As much as I like to see members discussing away with the newest chapters, please stay on topic [/mod]

 

[kingsenol]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

Is there no new chapter this week?

 

[Babii-Boo]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

Is there no new chapter this week?

Nope. Sadly there isn't.

 

[John M.D.]

Re: The Prince of Tennis subforum

Can you guys give me an overview of Prince of Tennis? I'm not sure if I'm gonna read it or what...

 

[VolleyBalla]

Re: Where to find old PoT chapters

Almost everyone except for the most recent episodes can be found at

www.mangarun.com

for online viewing

[bax]Thanx ^^ I'll edit it up in the first post[/bax]

 

[PureSoulKyo]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

Wouldn't Atobe's newfound strength be "Growth" in Dansan1's terms, gaining "Koori no Sekai (World of Ice)" through hard work?
Or Kirihara activating the "State of Self-Actualization" in his match with Fuji, because he was going to lose?

Not to mention many times in Eyeshield 21...

Antagonists do have growth.
It entirely up to the Mangaka whether or not they'll allow them to grow.

 

[timal9712]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

big big big chapter here
tezuka is a demon , opening the two doors as it was nothing...i only hope his stamina won't be dead soon
and for me i think that the ultimate state of self actualisation is different for each of them...
let me explain : for ryoma and his father it seems to be the state of samurai, but for someone like that clone of eichizen (don't remember the goddamned name)... i guess it will be a little more animal...

 

[bax]

Re: Prince of Tennis 335 Discussion

Wouldn't Atobe's newfound strength be "Growth" in Dansan1's terms, gaining "Koori no Sekai (World of Ice)" through hard work?

I would like to think of it that way. Well, I guess, this started after he lost badly to Sanada. And although he won against Tezuka after that, but yet again, it is because Tezuka was injured badly.

Or Kirihara activating the "State of Self-Actualization" in his match with Fuji, because he was going to lose?

Well, Kirihara activated it in the same way Echizen activated his against Kirihara back before Seigaku vs Rikkai Dai. In my view, I don't think that Kirihara actually managed to control it like the others before his match against Fuji.

big big big chapter here
tezuka is a demon , opening the two doors as it was nothing...i only hope his stamina won't be dead soon

I don't know about that. You see, the two doors opened by Tezuka is completely different from Echizen's. Echizen's State of Self Actualization works by physically do what his brain remembered. So it does take a lot of stamina. While Chitose's and Tezuka's powers are giving them advantage to predict a lot ahead and this may save them the unnecessary moves to avoid loss of stamina.

 

[bax]

Prince of Tennis 336 Discussion Thread

The latest chapter is out!!! After 2 weeks with no PoT!! Get it here.

_________________________________________________

After you downloaded it, continue to discuss it here ^^ And share your thoughts on this chapter.

Chitose is beaten 1-6 Tezuka showed his domination And wow!! Kintaro challenged Ryoma into a match Looks like the Twist Serve is not working on this wild genius.

 

[Requiem]

Re: Prince of Tennis 336 Discussion Thread

2 words : CHITOSE OWNED

now let's see this Wild Vs Genius, I think that Echizen is going to lose (because is not an important match )

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Re: Prince of Tennis 336 Discussion Thread

That was...completely unexpected. Tezuka defeats Chitose with ease, and Seigaku wins.

Ryoma vs Kintarou is an unofficial, 1 point match, I think? I guess Prince of Tennis will definitely continue beyond the Nationals, so that Kintarou and Ryoma can meet for real one day.

The Finals might not be that far away now. Very interesting.

And a new OVA is confirmed to start in June.