Discussion The Purpose of Zoro

Are Zoro's progress and purpose bound to remain in Luffy's shadow or he will have a unique moment?

  • Yes, Zoro will remain in Luffy's shadow.

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • No, Zoro will have his 5 minutes.

    Votes: 13 81.3%

  • Total voters
    16

afromarco005

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
630
Reaction score
717
Gender
Male
Country
France
Well, they have different goals so it doesn't necessarily mean that either of them will be in the shadow of the other. Luffy will never be able to compete with Zoro for the title of the world's strongest swordsman and Zoro's aim is for his name to be known even in the heaven's so that speaks volumes for his fame.

Being WSS is already giving fuel to speculations about Mihawk being able to beat a Yonko, whether it's true or not remains to be seen. So based on that, whoever Mihawk is able to beat it would be safe to assume that Zoro will be capable of more when he surpasses him, especially if Oda works in some additional power from cursed swords and Zoro's demonic aura.

The Zoro hype is over 9000 and I can't wait to see what Oda has in store for him, I just hope he doesn't sideline him considering how much sub plots he invested in Zoro.
So true, I am hyped too. I was so happy when Luffy and Zoro were reunited in wano and kicking ass together only for Zoro to get lost again and just wander around aimlessly...

As you said Zoro's dream involves him fighting strong swordsman one after the other but in 8-9 years of new world he has fought none (unless you count Monet and Pica:neutral )
Now after all the hype and a superb begining (slicing a building with a small hara kiri knife and cutting two lives out of hawkins effortlessly) he is now once again doing nothing...

When will Zoro catch a break?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I agree that saying "in his shadow" is a bad choice of words, they have different goals.

But I'll say full stop that no, being WSS doesn't make you stronger than a Yonko. Mihawk said to Luffy quite clearly that his goal of being "Pirate King" is even harder than Zoro's goal of being WSS. To be the pirate King you have to defeat the other Yonko. Also, when facing a Yonko, Mihawk even said that he wanted to see how far apart in power they were, fully acknowledging that White Beard was more powerful.

edit: "I just want to measure the true distance between that man and us". Those were Mihawks words http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-553-page-14.html. WSS or not, that does not sound like the statement of a man who thinks he is at the level of the Yonko, let alone above him.
White beard was not just any yonko, he was the strongest man in the world, capable of destroying the earth if he wanted.
 

nik87

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Messages
1,460
Reaction score
1,333
Country
The Wall
When will Zoro catch a break?
If not in Wano, then I dont know when. If by the end of this arc we dont have a lot more information about Zoro then I am afraid that Oda is sidelining everyone except Luffy. I hope Oda is a big fish which won't fall under the pressure of editors and publishers and whoever has the power to pressure him. It happened with Toriko and it was awful.
 

thedude

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
378
Reaction score
403
Gender
Male
Country
United States
well, let's change that example to Zoro having a bad chest wound, and having Luffy's perforated stomach pain added on top of that, to which he was still standing consciously whereas Luffy was knocked out. Plus, we saw Zoro bleeding/bleeding even more than he was, so who knows.


I can call you a fanboy as well for claiming Zoro won't surpass Luffy in fame or power, especially considering Buggy's crew members are said to be stronger than him, and Zoro's fame seems to match Luffy's as well. We don't know what's going to happen for sure, we're just assuming.

Both are known as Supernovas, and where Luffy is known, so is Zoro, and vice versa. Hell, Zoro was initially famous as the pirate hunter/bounty hunter even before he got a bounty. And I'm still unsure on who's stronger between the two, given we haven't seen Zoro go all out. Plus, Luffy's devil fruit gives him advantage, whereas Zoro's swords also give him advantage that Luffy wouldn't have. Lucci could have killed Zoro if he fought him, but Luffy's rubber body gave him an advantage.

Zoro did at few points overshadow Luffy. At the start in fame, and then debatably power as well. Not sure if anyone's ready to have this conversation though.
...you are comparing Luffy, the main character in the manga who will be Pirate King by the end to...Buggy. SO I hope people are following along and can see that you aren't someone to take seriously.

Zoro's fame doesn't match Luffy's. You can see it in their bounties. You know this as well as I do.

You are engaging in fan fiction. Maybe in your version of the story, Queen kills Luffy now, the rest of the Straw Hats are wiped out by various underlings, and Zoro goes on his quest to become Pirate King by himself. But that ain't the story. This is the story of Luffy becoming Pirate King. And that's why Luffy is the one who fights all the bosses. It's not that Luffy is a more interesting character or has a cooler design, it's simply that he is the main character of the manga. And if you were being honest, you'd admit that this is how it's written, that Luffy is always the one to beat the main guy and get the much higher bounty.

This isn't a controversial opinion, lol. You are just not debating the manga in a realistic way, you are debating your fan fiction. So I'll be done here.
 
Last edited:

Lexusflame

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
1,736
Reaction score
2,130
Country
United States
...you are comparing Luffy, the main character in the manga who will be Pirate King by the end to...Buggy. SO I hope people are following along and can see that you aren't someone to take seriously.

Zoro's fame doesn't match Luffy's. You can see it in their bounties. You know this as well as I do.

You are engaging in fan fiction. Maybe in your version of the story, Queen kills Luffy now, the rest of the Straw Hats are wiped out by various underlings, and Zoro goes on his quest to become Pirate King by himself. But that ain't the story. This is the story of Luffy becoming Pirate King. And that's why Luffy is the one who fights all the bosses. It's not that Luffy is a more interesting character or has a cooler design, it's simply that he is the main character of the manga. And if you were being honest, you'd admit that this is how it's written, that Luffy is always the one to beat the main guy and get the much higher bounty.

This isn't a controversial opinion, lol. You are just not debating the manga in a realistic way, you are debating your fan fiction. So I'll be done here.
I remember this happening a lot in bleach. So many forum members wanted the focus away from Ichigo despite Ichigo being the main character.

And endless number of Hitugaya fans what's more focus on him rather than the main character lol.

It's all to do with fan bases.

Shounen is very straight forward with how it establishes its story/characters and time and time again people want the focus only on certain characters that aren't really front and center.

M3J isnt one to be very biased tho. I just dont think other characters mistaking him for captain is enough to = Zoro over shadowing Luffy.
 

Fox666

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
3,110
Reaction score
924
Gender
Hidden
Country
Brazil
No, Zoro had no reason to continue standing after taking on Luffy's pain and exhaustion with his own, he could have passed out since no one was in danger but he didn't. It's different from Luffy collapsing from his own pain after determining the threat is removed.

But then again, it's not like Luffy's endurance is bad. As far as I recall, even after his fight with Katakuri, he fainted because he saw no threat as far as he knew. But what makes Zoro impressive here is that he was still standing and was still conscious despite having 2x the pain and exhaustion, and I'm assuming Luffy's threshold is higher due to his devil fruit.
Reading the scene again, it seems the "pain and exhaustion" that Zoro absorbed from Luffy had a very different effect on him. Luffy was unconscious after the battle because he used Gear 2, which Chopper warned him about. According to Rob Lucci, Gear 2 works by pumping out the blood to increase the metabolism, which is only possible because Luffy's body is made of rubber. However when Zoro absorbed the effect of Gear 2, his blood was literally pumped out of his body.
 

M3J

MH Senpai
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
42,391
Reaction score
12,445
Gender
Male
Country
Akatsuki
I have a question.

It was recently revealed in that a crews bounty is reflective of their Captains. Oda says this because the WG finds it hard to gauge an individual crew members strength.

My question is, if Zoro's fame wasnt overshadowed by Luffy's accomplishments.... What would his true bounty be? Higher or lower than it currently is?
Probably the same, if not few hundred millions more. I don't think Zoro's been entirely overshadowed by Luffy's accomplishments, but after the timeskip, he really hasn't that many accomplishments other than one-shotting Hodi, scaring Monet shitless, and impressing people with his ability to cut through stones (wasn't he able to do this even prior to the timeskip?).


Personally I think saying Zoro overshadows Luffy in any way is pretty funny. Zoro probably isnt even know by high tier swordsmen in NW because his portrayal has been bad. His fame comes from him being a SN and he is a SN because his bounty is reflective of Luffy's.

It it typical shounen that the closer we get to the EoS, the larger the gap is going to grow between Luffy and everyone else.

Using Buggy as an example doesnt work. That the troupe of Buggy. He tricks far more capable people into being his subordinates. There is no crew in OP where a Crewmember had outshined their captain: in bounty, strength, and renown

Zoro has an amazing fan base, it's the only reason discussions like this pop up.

I expect when Zoro develops CoC( which I know is going to happen) his reknown is going to start speeding up way more than it is now....
He hasn't constantly been making a name for himself like Luffy has. Luffy went into a war out of his range, changed the tide of the battle, freed Ace, is revealed to be Garp's grandson, and is known as the son of the most infamous criminal in recent times. And on top of that, he's the captain who infiltrated Enies Lobby and Impel Down and even took on shichibukai. Zoro should at least be almost as well known as Luffy is, given they both got bounties around the same time that kept increasing, and Zoro's almost always been with Luffy. Zoro's fame comes from his being known as a decent swordsman as well, otherwise he would not have become a Supernova.

Buggy didn't really trick the stronger ones as much as they were dumb enough to misunderstand him and disregard the things he said. It's also hard to outshine your captain in bounty and renown when the leader usually gets the attention, since they're the ones leading the crew. I do want to see though, who's stronger between Rayleigh and Roger.


Zoro's fanbase is because of how he's portrayed. In terms of personality and demeanor, he's different from Luffy - where you just can't feel stressed with Luffy, you can be in awe or scared of Zoro.

M3J isnt one to be very biased tho. I just dont think other characters mistaking him for captain is enough to = Zoro over shadowing Luffy.
I'm not biased at all, but there have been moments where Zoro was able to overshadow Luffy until Luffy beat the boss.

Reading the scene again, it seems the "pain and exhaustion" that Zoro absorbed from Luffy had a very different effect on him. Luffy was unconscious after the battle because he used Gear 2, which Chopper warned him about. According to Rob Lucci, Gear 2 works by pumping out the blood to increase the metabolism, which is only possible because Luffy's body is made of rubber. However when Zoro absorbed the effect of Gear 2, his blood was literally pumped out of his body.
Wouldn't Zoro get a heart attack or bleed to death, then? I don't know if he absorbed that part of Gear 2, he probably absorbed the exhaustion and pain of it.
 

Fox666

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
3,110
Reaction score
924
Gender
Hidden
Country
Brazil
Wouldn't Zoro get a heart attack or bleed to death, then? I don't know if he absorbed that part of Gear 2, he probably absorbed the exhaustion and pain of it.
Zoro did left a large pool of blood, which would be impossible to survive in real life.

I didn't noticed before, but this effect does match with Rob Lucci analysis of how Gear 2 works.
 

Lexusflame

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
1,736
Reaction score
2,130
Country
United States
Probably the same, if not few hundred millions more. I don't think Zoro's been entirely overshadowed by Luffy's accomplishments, but after the timeskip, he really hasn't that many accomplishments other than one-shotting Hodi, scaring Monet shitless, and impressing people with his ability to cut through stones (wasn't he able to do this even prior to the timeskip?).



He hasn't constantly been making a name for himself like Luffy has. Luffy went into a war out of his range, changed the tide of the battle, freed Ace, is revealed to be Garp's grandson, and is known as the son of the most infamous criminal in recent times. And on top of that, he's the captain who infiltrated Enies Lobby and Impel Down and even took on shichibukai. Zoro should at least be almost as well known as Luffy is, given they both got bounties around the same time that kept increasing, and Zoro's almost always been with Luffy. Zoro's fame comes from his being known as a decent swordsman as well, otherwise he would not have become a Supernova.

Buggy didn't really trick the stronger ones as much as they were dumb enough to misunderstand him and disregard the things he said. It's also hard to outshine your captain in bounty and renown when the leader usually gets the attention, since they're the ones leading the crew. I do want to see though, who's stronger between Rayleigh and Roger.


Zoro's fanbase is because of how he's portrayed. In terms of personality and demeanor, he's different from Luffy - where you just can't feel stressed with Luffy, you can be in awe or scared of Zoro.


I'm not biased at all, but there have been moments where Zoro was able to overshadow Luffy until Luffy beat the boss.



Wouldn't Zoro get a heart attack or bleed to death, then? I don't know if he absorbed that part of Gear 2, he probably absorbed the exhaustion and pain of it.
But Zoro doesnt have a monopoly on over shadowing Luffy. Many of the Strawhats have had moment on showing something that highlights them as individual outside of being a subordinate of Luffy.

It's not Zoro exclusive

Examples:

God Ussop knocking out Sugar with pinpoint accuracy MILES away and earning Doflamingo's anger more than even Law and Luffy

Brook actually showing a DF advantage over BM's homies and damaging Zeus and Prometheus

Nami actually putting in work against BM with her massive thunder claps

I could go on but that should be enough to make my point

I'm not sure wearing you seeing how Zoro shadows Luffy outside of Oda showcasing the Straw Hats skills (which is normal to have your main supporting cast shine) Luffy cant do everything himself lol
 
Last edited:

thedude

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
378
Reaction score
403
Gender
Male
Country
United States
I remember this happening a lot in bleach. So many forum members wanted the focus away from Ichigo despite Ichigo being the main character.

And endless number of Hitugaya fans what's more focus on him rather than the main character lol.

It's all to do with fan bases.

Shounen is very straight forward with how it establishes its story/characters and time and time again people want the focus only on certain characters that aren't really front and center.

M3J isnt one to be very biased tho. I just dont think other characters mistaking him for captain is enough to = Zoro over shadowing Luffy.
Yeah, it happens in all fandoms. Honestly, i recall a few years ago where it seemed like OP fans wanted Luffy to replace his crew with the other Supernova's, because they were new and stronger and some had really cool character designs.

It's not even Shounen being straight forward though. It's all story telling being straight forward. Homer's Odyssey didn't suddenly become about someone else in Odysseus's crew. Harry Potter didn't become about Ron being the best wizard in the 6th book. That's just not how any storytelling tradition, be it Eastern or Western, works.
 

Lexusflame

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
1,736
Reaction score
2,130
Country
United States
Yeah, it happens in all fandoms. Honestly, i recall a few years ago where it seemed like OP fans wanted Luffy to replace his crew with the other Supernova's, because they were new and stronger and some had really cool character designs.

It's not even Shounen being straight forward though. It's all story telling being straight forward. Homer's Odyssey didn't suddenly become about someone else in Odysseus's crew. Harry Potter didn't become about Ron being the best wizard in the 6th book. That's just not how any storytelling tradition, be it Eastern or Western, works.
I meant in the sense that the Mc's of shounen tend to grow far beyond his allies the closer he get to EoS

I get you tho
 

thedude

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
378
Reaction score
403
Gender
Male
Country
United States
I'm not sure wearing you seeing how Zoro shadows Luffy outside of Oda showcasing the Straw Hats skills (which is normal to have your main supporting cast shine) Luffy cant do everything himself lol
Luffy even had a great moment early in the manga, when he fought Arlong. He picked up the swords and attacked, not knowing what he was doing. And Arlong made fun of him, and Luffy just said "so what, I can't do everything on my own, that's why I have my crew" (he went on to list what they all did, and his line about "I can't lie" was the best. Usopp was not happy, lol)
 

M3J

MH Senpai
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
42,391
Reaction score
12,445
Gender
Male
Country
Akatsuki
Zoro did left a large pool of blood, which would be impossible to survive in real life.

I didn't noticed before, but this effect does match with Rob Lucci analysis of how Gear 2 works.
Yeah, and it makes me laugh when people insist there should be some logic or real life logic here.

Also his vessels should be busted open, or he should have had some sort of heart condition at the time.
But Zoro doesnt have a monopoly on over shadowing Luffy. Many of the Strawhats have had moment on showing something that highlights them as individual outside of being a subordinate of Luffy.

It's not Zoro exclusive

Examples:

God Ussop knocking out Sugar with pinpoint accuracy MILES away and earning Doflamingo's anger more than even Law and Luffy

Brook actually showing a DF advantage over BM's homies and damaging Zeus and Prometheus

Nami actually putting in work against BM with her massive thunder claps

I could go on but that should be enough to make my point

I'm not sure wearing you seeing how Zoro shadows Luffy outside of Oda showcasing the Straw Hats skills (which is normal to have your main supporting cast shine) Luffy cant do everything himself lol
And how many of those characters were thought to be the captain or had their power respected to the point that it made them respect the actual captain more? That's different from just doing something that highlights them as individuals, and it's that part that makes the manga work.
 

Lexusflame

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
1,736
Reaction score
2,130
Country
United States
Those comments have always been 1 lined off handed comments lol.

I challenge you to show me panels where that had an significance outside of complementing Zoro's strength.

If anything it hypes up Luffy just as much because Luffy has a subordinate that is that power that he could be mistaken as Captain. (You may have made it point already, I'm not sure)

Actually. When those comment were made, the ones making them didnt see Luffy go all out so their point of reference is completely relevant. They see one strong pirate and assume they are the captain without knowing how powerful the others are?

That logic doesn't fly. They were offhanded comments to Zoro's strength, nothing of significance beyond that and definitely not meant to over shadow Luffy
 
Last edited:

M3J

MH Senpai
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
42,391
Reaction score
12,445
Gender
Male
Country
Akatsuki
It shows how impressive Zoro is and how he tended to overshadow Luffy, though. And yeah, we've seen Luffy be hyped up by people who knew Zoro wasn't the captain.

No, they were mighty impressed by Zoro's strength. Strong is an understatement to what they saw from Zoro, otherwise they wouldn't have been in such awe.
 

nik87

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Messages
1,460
Reaction score
1,333
Country
The Wall
Bartolomeo drools the most about Doro-Tenpai.
Because of that Zoro > rest. :toc
 

XXGenesis

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
1,168
Reaction score
349
Age
28
Gender
Male
Country
Turkmenistan
Lol i learned the hard way with Dragon Ball series being a Vegeta Fan Boy. It's not that we want to see the #2 Overtake the #1 all the time. It's just actually good writing to keep them not so far apart, and some type of in story or fan rivalry going.

Zoro was never stronger than Luffy. In the beginning of the series Zoro was injured & let his guard down against buggy's crew, & fought Mihawk. That was the closest they ever were, to say it would be a 5/5 win or Zoro wins..It wasnt until Thriller Bark arc, to where we are Zoo's stamina give Rubber boy Luffy a run for its money & Zoro has defeated somebody similar in Power to Luffy's opponent. But no Zoro isnt going to outshine Luffy.

His Greaat swordsmandship is not something someone can have too much stamina against. Zoro can inflict serious damage to Luffy overtime & clashes..But Luffy will have put a hurting on Zoro & would knock him out with Kong Organ or KKP
 

King Moe

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
1,698
Reaction score
944
Age
23
Country
United States
Lol i learned the hard way with Dragon Ball series being a Vegeta Fan Boy. It's not that we want to see the #2 Overtake the #1 all the time. It's just actually good writing to keep them not so far apart, and some type of in story or fan rivalry going.

Zoro was never stronger than Luffy. In the beginning of the series Zoro was injured & let his guard down against buggy's crew, & fought Mihawk. That was the closest they ever were, to say it would be a 5/5 win or Zoro wins..It wasnt until Thriller Bark arc, to where we are Zoo's stamina give Rubber boy Luffy a run for its money & Zoro has defeated somebody similar in Power to Luffy's opponent. But no Zoro isnt going to outshine Luffy.

His Greaat swordsmandship is not something someone can have too much stamina against. Zoro can inflict serious damage to Luffy overtime & clashes..But Luffy will have put a hurting on Zoro & would knock him out with Kong Organ or KKP
From how Oda writing the series, I think Kidd is the 'Vegeta' since they are competing not in the jail alone, but for same dream to be Pirate King.

Zoro is someone who served under his Captain to help with his goal. I see no reason on why Zoro would be stronger or even equal Luffy even end of the series. The dynamic is misinterpreted as them as 'rivals', but their relationship is hardly that and something different. Don't think Oda will ever intended Zoro to be stronger than Luffy, not even once in the series.

Looking how everyone wanting to make Luffy Pirate King with their own abilities insert that more.
 

afromarco005

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
630
Reaction score
717
Gender
Male
Country
France
Well The world strongest swordsman is the rival of Yonko shanks a man who is close to pirate king level in theory, so Zoro can be Luffy's rival there is no reason why this cant happen. We even have moments like Luffy vs zoro or zoro saying if luffy could not at least ko 10 000 fishman the hed not be worthy of being his captain.

Zoro is the most loyal follower of Luffy but he is also a very proud man and wont let himself be distanced too much by Luffy strenght wise.

Now we just need thosr awesome zoroLuffy momments post time skip pretty please Oda...
 

M3J

MH Senpai
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
42,391
Reaction score
12,445
Gender
Male
Country
Akatsuki
Mihawk isn't under Shanks though, as far as we know. That's the main difference between the two, but there's no reason why Zoro, Sanji, and Luffy can't be rivals, especially for fun or out of brotherly rivalry.
 
Top