Discussion There are two souls in Baam body before enter in the Tower /theory/

projectX

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2018
Messages
284
Reaction score
213
Age
31
Country
Bulgaria
How Baam was returned to live from Arlene?She offered his body and her soul to the the gods outside of the tower in exchange for a revenge of Zaharad and 10 great families.What I think the gods of ouside the tower grand her this wish but put inside Baam dead body 2 souls one young and pure and one sealed cursed old axis soul that is so powerful and will be awaken and destroy everything of its way.I will call it ''God of Destruction''.Rachel knows this and thats why she called Baam a monster that will destroy everything.Right now the pure soul in the body has taken control but in the moment of despair,pain and suffirng the coin will show his other side.The dark side inside Baam that Rachel is so afraid of....
 

Kadir0

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2016
Messages
909
Reaction score
1,469
Country
The Wall
I think Baam’s soul isn’t Arlene’s son, hence why Rachel said Arlene called him a monster.


The story of TUS that SIU wrote about the axis’s outside. Phanta is 2nd strongest axis, other axis’ outside are searching for the strongest axis who died/disappeared including Phanta is looking for him. I have a read a long time ago so i can’t remember well, but i have a feeling Baam’s soul is the strongest axis god, and Phanta found his soul and wants to resurrect him.
 

projectX

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2018
Messages
284
Reaction score
213
Age
31
Country
Bulgaria
I think Baam’s soul isn’t Arlene’s son, hence why Rachel said Arlene called him a monster.


The story of TUS that SIU wrote about the axis’s outside. Phanta is 2nd strongest axis, other axis’ outside are searching for the strongest axis who died/disappeared including Phanta is looking for him. I have a read a long time ago so i can’t remember well, but i have a feeling Baam’s soul is the strongest axis god, and Phanta found his soul and wants to resurrect him.

There are 5 axis and Phanta is ranked in the middle this wrote someone from SIU post.
 

Huo Yuhao

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
265
Reaction score
185
Age
23
Country
Gotei 13
There are 5 axis and Phanta is ranked in the middle this wrote someone from SIU post.
Phan is top 5 axises.

outside the tower, there are numerous axises. There’s even classfification of axis awakening at A rank to F rank.
 

Ripcord

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
1,219
Reaction score
602
Gender
Male
Country
United States
I don’t know about this. I feel like the HF mirror gave us a huge clue about Bam - that his soul has no past. His body might but Bam himself does not.

We know Urek, an irregular, wasn’t quarantined because he made it to the Mirror at the End, so it isn’t common to irregulars.

It’s possible that the soul of an axis is so powerful that the mirror can’t see it or it’s past and Bam does have a lot of things inside him - SIU has not said what the Sun inside Bam is yet AFAIK.

However, I like the idea that Bam’s soul is entirely new, a blank slate. His soul was created empty, from nothing, which is why it devours. And I don’t think Arlene called Bam a monster because he was one. I believe she called him that because she made him the way he is to be one, to be a monster that could destroy the Tower.

And yet just like Naruto refused to be defined by being the Kyuubi, Bam will forge his own path and I think that leaving it up to Bam will be the best mistake Arlene ever made... if she really wanted retribution in the first place.
 

Jammin

Androssi Worshiper
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Mangahelper
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Messages
13,993
Reaction score
18,576
Gender
Male
Country
United States
I also subscribe to the idea that while Baam may have the body of Arlen's son. He doesn't have that child's soul.

Whose soul has he got? I don't know. Maybe his own. Or maybe that of a god from outside the tower that Arlen's story mentioned. Wherever it was originally from it's his now and I suspect there is going to be power there far beyond what the child of V and Arlen could have had.
 

Arjuna

The Emperor Who Rules the World
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
15,474
Reaction score
23,899
Age
26
Gender
Male
Country
India
We know according to Rachel Arlene actually hated or feared what Baam is,so maybe he is a God from the outside.
 

TheMoa

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
3,335
Reaction score
2,105
Age
30
Gender
Male
Country
Winterfell
We know according to Rachel Arlene actually hated or feared what Baam is,so maybe he is a God from the outside.
Actually we don't know. We do know that Rachael threw this bait when Baam told her that he was done with her, we don't know at this point what is a lie and what is the truth.
 

Arjuna

The Emperor Who Rules the World
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
15,474
Reaction score
23,899
Age
26
Gender
Male
Country
India
Actually we don't know. We do know that Rachael threw this bait when Baam told her that he was done with her, we don't know at this point what is a lie and what is the truth.
True but I doubt from the writing style this is false,there should be a gain of truth in it.
 

toil

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
457
Reaction score
310
Country
United States
I was thinking Baam’s "burning sun" is going to be connected to the star that the tower-builder guy was in love with in that story Rachel told.

So maybe similarly to the hidden floor arc the tower-builder falls in love with "star", "star" becomes curious about human life, winds up jumping into Arlene's dead baby's body, and...here we are, more or less, with lots of details left to fill in, but that broad outline. Maybe.
 

kkck

Waifu Slayer
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
36,400
Reaction score
16,484
Gender
Hidden
Country
Fire Nation
I dislike the idea of bam himself being a god. I can buy bam eventually being an axis though. He is enough of the chosen one even without being a literal incarnated god.

As far as rachel's words... that really depends on arlen's state of mind at the time. The implication so far is that arlen's mental state was deteriorated.... If arlen was sane then her words are... disturbing to the plot because bam might be a curse inflicted upon the tower. Otherwise her words might just be ramblings from someone mad with grief.

Actually, I just noticed something... During the hidden floor we had yellow, a small bit of data that went full pinochio and aspired to be a human. by taking the body of a dead child. And then that body was eventually destroyed by zahard. Isn't this... eerie? And oddly familiar? I think this is meant to be foreshadowing in regards to bam in some ways. But in what ways exactly I can't say because siu won't necessarily make bam's future the same. But still, if this is foreshadowing in regards to bam then this random ass plot point which seemed unnecessary is actually brilliant.
 

toil

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
457
Reaction score
310
Country
United States
That whole hidden floor arc is full of crazy symbolism: the initial entrance with Baam and Andorsi is like a funhouse version of the S1 opening with Andorsi ambiguously playing both Baam's role (chasing someone "pulled into the tower") and Rachel's ("forcing one's way into someone else's route"). This gets followed up by them immediately after landing inside the quarantine zone with an aerial shot of Androssi in Baam's old "laying here on my back, on the floor of my cave" pose (and she's even in "unstylish peasant garb" to make the resemblance clearer). It keeps going for awhile after this, too, with Khun and Rak—not Baam—winding up inside the mouth of a giant eel, having to attack from the inside to get it to spit them back out, and so on.

It feels like a lot of the eventually-to-be-revealed secrets are encoded in that arc, but in ways that are hard to interpret at this time.

In re: Yellow, that's the story that got me leaning this way (that & the visual resemblance): Yellow got curious about being human and took over an "unoccupied baby body" (and gets killed by Zahard); Baam supposedly was an "unoccupied baby body" and he's got some giant sun-like thing inside himself. The sequence is backwards from what we've been told about Baam—Baam supposedly dies by Zahard first, then gets re-occupied, Yellow flips that—but it's otherwise similar, and in the context of the "topsy-turvy hallucinatory remix" arc.
 

Frost19

Registered User
初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
7
Reaction score
7
Age
29
Country
Japan
I like the theory of hidden floor symbolism. They put Baam into quarantine at the beginning, Androssi having her sworn enemy killing all people around him, and Rachel trying to be someone else and deceiving Baam's group. Still, I'm wondering what is the eel that became Rak's enemy. If we follow this theory, we'll probably also see Maschenny Zahard raise her spear to her father (king Zahard), failed, and have Baam defeated him in the end.

That whole hidden floor arc is full of crazy symbolism: the initial entrance with Baam and Andorsi is like a funhouse version of the S1 opening with Andorsi ambiguously playing both Baam's role (chasing someone "pulled into the tower") and Rachel's ("forcing one's way into someone else's route"). This gets followed up by them immediately after landing inside the quarantine zone with an aerial shot of Androssi in Baam's old "laying here on my back, on the floor of my cave" pose (and she's even in "unstylish peasant garb" to make the resemblance clearer). It keeps going for awhile after this, too, with Khun and Rak—not Baam—winding up inside the mouth of a giant eel, having to attack from the inside to get it to spit them back out, and so on.

It feels like a lot of the eventually-to-be-revealed secrets are encoded in that arc, but in ways that are hard to interpret at this time.

In re: Yellow, that's the story that got me leaning this way (that & the visual resemblance): Yellow got curious about being human and took over an "unoccupied baby body" (and gets killed by Zahard); Baam supposedly was an "unoccupied baby body" and he's got some giant sun-like thing inside himself. The sequence is backwards from what we've been told about Baam—Baam supposedly dies by Zahard first, then gets re-occupied, Yellow flips that—but it's otherwise similar, and in the context of the "topsy-turvy hallucinatory remix" arc.
 

Ripcord

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
1,219
Reaction score
602
Gender
Male
Country
United States
I dislike the idea of bam himself being a god. I can buy bam eventually being an axis though. He is enough of the chosen one even without being a literal incarnated god.

As far as rachel's words... that really depends on arlen's state of mind at the time. The implication so far is that arlen's mental state was deteriorated.... If arlen was sane then her words are... disturbing to the plot because bam might be a curse inflicted upon the tower. Otherwise her words might just be ramblings from someone mad with grief.

Actually, I just noticed something... During the hidden floor we had yellow, a small bit of data that went full pinochio and aspired to be a human. by taking the body of a dead child. And then that body was eventually destroyed by zahard. Isn't this... eerie? And oddly familiar? I think this is meant to be foreshadowing in regards to bam in some ways. But in what ways exactly I can't say because siu won't necessarily make bam's future the same. But still, if this is foreshadowing in regards to bam then this random ass plot point which seemed unnecessary is actually brilliant.
You’re right that Hwang did try to become human. I still stipulate he needed a “shell” and that Yura was a part of that, which is why he needed her there. He was going to steal her real body or take her place.

I hadn’t connected this with Bam but it’s possible that Bam’s soul is “artificial” which is why he has no past.

A lot of things Rachel says are half-true so I’m not so sure Bam is really a monster but I can definitely see that Arlene wishes him to be a monster to destroy the Tower if it took everything she cared about away from her (V, her son, and her stars), regardless of her mental state. Rachel just twists the words like a knife in the wound to hurt Bam as much as possible.

As to Bam being a god - isn’t an axis the same thing as far as the Tower is concerned? It’s all relative isn’t it? I mean to most Tower residents Zahard is basically a god.

A god can be considered a creator, destroyer, and lots of other things but fundamentally I think a god is defined by being able to break rules that others must follow to accomplish extraordinary things.

Creating life from inanimate things is one example, resurrection is another. Some may even say complete obliteration of all in the way shows the strength of a god (Zahard to many, Phanta to all in the Tower).

So what I mean is that the definition of god in Tower of God has not yet really been defined, other than by FUG who wish Bam to be their god and do things they cannot.
 

kkck

Waifu Slayer
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
36,400
Reaction score
16,484
Gender
Hidden
Country
Fire Nation
You’re right that Hwang did try to become human. I still stipulate he needed a “shell” and that Yura was a part of that, which is why he needed her there. He was going to steal her real body or take her place.

I hadn’t connected this with Bam but it’s possible that Bam’s soul is “artificial” which is why he has no past.

A lot of things Rachel says are half-true so I’m not so sure Bam is really a monster but I can definitely see that Arlene wishes him to be a monster to destroy the Tower if it took everything she cared about away from her (V, her son, and her stars), regardless of her mental state. Rachel just twists the words like a knife in the wound to hurt Bam as much as possible.

As to Bam being a god - isn’t an axis the same thing as far as the Tower is concerned? It’s all relative isn’t it? I mean to most Tower residents Zahard is basically a god.

A god can be considered a creator, destroyer, and lots of other things but fundamentally I think a god is defined by being able to break rules that others must follow to accomplish extraordinary things.

Creating life from inanimate things is one example, resurrection is another. Some may even say complete obliteration of all in the way shows the strength of a god (Zahard to many, Phanta to all in the Tower).

So what I mean is that the definition of god in Tower of God has not yet really been defined, other than by FUG who wish Bam to be their god and do things they cannot.
To me the idea that he needed a shell is weird given how the plot developed. His plan was to convert data into something real and presumably believed that would also work for rachel. If he was going to take someone's body and leave that way... he just needed to convert the data that makes him up into something compatible with the body he was taking. My assumption would be that this is more or less how viole is preserved within bam. If yellow really thought data could be converted into something real then it makes no sense for his plan to be to take someone's body. Of course, if he didn't do that then his plan would have been to take someone's body and replace his memories with his own.... Since memories are basically data.

I honestly thought bam had no past because he was.... young by tower standards. As in, he was revived relatively recently whereas regulars at the train can be hundreds of years old. I am not sure of how an artificial soul would have no past.

The series definitely has rather liberal use of the word god. But in the context of my post I meant specifically something even above an axis. And barring that, an axis.
 

Ripcord

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
1,219
Reaction score
602
Gender
Male
Country
United States
To me the idea that he needed a shell is weird given how the plot developed. His plan was to convert data into something real and presumably believed that would also work for rachel. If he was going to take someone's body and leave that way... he just needed to convert the data that makes him up into something compatible with the body he was taking. My assumption would be that this is more or less how viole is preserved within bam. If yellow really thought data could be converted into something real then it makes no sense for his plan to be to take someone's body. Of course, if he didn't do that then his plan would have been to take someone's body and replace his memories with his own.... Since memories are basically data.

I honestly thought bam had no past because he was.... young by tower standards. As in, he was revived relatively recently whereas regulars at the train can be hundreds of years old. I am not sure of how an artificial soul would have no past.

The series definitely has rather liberal use of the word god. But in the context of my post I meant specifically something even above an axis. And barring that, an axis.
IMO Hwang was taking Rachel for a ride, but if not then Yura was there in case Hwang needed a backup. I can’t see any other reason for needing to lure her there other than to steal her body or “exit slot” - meaning bodies out can’t be more than bodies in.

An artificial being has no past because they have no lineage. I can write a computer program, but it has no ancestors, no family, no history, other than the fact that I wrote it. Odds are good that Urek made it to the HF in a similar timeframe to Bam arriving so I don’t think the short time in the Tower is it. I think it’s something intrinsic to Bam himself that no one else has.

The others in the Quanrantine area ended up there because they messed with the HF, but Bam ended up there from the very start. I think the aspect of no past hints that Bam’s body may be that made by Arlene and V, but his soul is something else.

It’s possible that Bam is like Ywach from Bleach - in that he started out as a complete blank state. Then things were imprinted onto him - he absorbed feelings and ideas from Rachel... that was her purpose. This is why others are drawn to Bam, a nefarious reason for being drawn to him: he absorbs their feelings and knowledge. This of course has a side effect of making him very empathetic and a really good guy. Just a crackpot theory...

For the gods, I get what you’re saying but as far as we know axis are the greatest beings in ToG, and SIU has walked back that cannon as much as he could.
 

toil

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
457
Reaction score
310
Country
United States
I like the theory of hidden floor symbolism. They put Baam into quarantine at the beginning, Androssi having her sworn enemy killing all people around him, and Rachel trying to be someone else and deceiving Baam's group. Still, I'm wondering what is the eel that became Rak's enemy. If we follow this theory, we'll probably also see Maschenny Zahard raise her spear to her father (king Zahard), failed, and have Baam defeated him in the end.
Thanks, I hadn't put "Rachel in disguise" (and arguably "Rachel stealing someone else's role/job"), or the snake charmer killing everyone in the seed as ~ Androssi killing everyone on 2F. It really does seem to be like SIU just dumped the significant parts of early S1 into a blender.

That said, I'm not sure there'll be more to Rak's eel enemy other than that it's in character for him to imagine some big monster he's never met, and making it a giant eel lets a sly reference to Baam's first test get worked in without too much fuss. We'll find out eventually, I suppose.
 

kkck

Waifu Slayer
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
36,400
Reaction score
16,484
Gender
Hidden
Country
Fire Nation
IMO Hwang was taking Rachel for a ride, but if not then Yura was there in case Hwang needed a backup. I can’t see any other reason for needing to lure her there other than to steal her body or “exit slot” - meaning bodies out can’t be more than bodies in.

An artificial being has no past because they have no lineage. I can write a computer program, but it has no ancestors, no family, no history, other than the fact that I wrote it. Odds are good that Urek made it to the HF in a similar timeframe to Bam arriving so I don’t think the short time in the Tower is it. I think it’s something intrinsic to Bam himself that no one else has.

The others in the Quanrantine area ended up there because they messed with the HF, but Bam ended up there from the very start. I think the aspect of no past hints that Bam’s body may be that made by Arlene and V, but his soul is something else.

It’s possible that Bam is like Ywach from Bleach - in that he started out as a complete blank state. Then things were imprinted onto him - he absorbed feelings and ideas from Rachel... that was her purpose. This is why others are drawn to Bam, a nefarious reason for being drawn to him: he absorbs their feelings and knowledge. This of course has a side effect of making him very empathetic and a really good guy. Just a crackpot theory...

For the gods, I get what you’re saying but as far as we know axis are the greatest beings in ToG, and SIU has walked back that cannon as much as he could.
I need to reread the bits of the arc around this but I don't recall any specific bit that evidences yellow lying about this. I think yellow was just attached to yura due to her being her sister in a way. This whole thing started by taking over the data of her brother's body and loving yuri's mother...

I didn't mean bam arriving to the tower, I meant the time he has been alive. And what he has done within that time. Bam spent his time in a cave after reviving and during that time he didn't do much of anything... Until he got to the tower. What you mention also suggests souls having lineage which is weird. And his body of course does have a lineage and a pretty ancient one at that (unless it stopped counting after he died).

I remember someone in the forum saying in early SIU work a true god beyond axis was saying. of course, axis are godlike... I guess that would even depend on whether the old stuff continues to be relevant.
 

Jdady

Registered User
初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Age
27
Country
Italy
If what SIU said about TUS is still valid that would be a good answer for baam to have no past. In TUS you can't change your past, and if you can't change it your futer is yet written. Only axis could write it. Also the fact that the power of baam is a straight line is somewhat strange maybe becouse his true power is the power of an axis
 
Top