Discussion Totto Land / Whole Cake Island - All About Big Mom

vegeta

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Hey guys,

These are my thoughts

After round 1 between big mom and luffy when his gear4 runs out I think the dragon will appear in whole cake island and with the RA help luffy and co with sanji and Jinbei will be able suppress the big mom forces and they will pull back from WCI. As you can see there aren't that many power houses on luffys side right now in his vicinity apart from Jinbei and sanji and remaining straw hats so it's only logical that he is gonna get some big help to safely run away from both germa 66 and big mom pirates and her allies and its also high time to reveal the strength of RA and Dragon and what they can accomplish and to find out what happened during the attack between RA vs BB and there's seems to be a devil fruit user who can control crows... or something related crows who overseas and gathers Intel all over the world in RA. I guess from his Intel and with with help of luffys vivre car they are gonna track luffy and since RA has been hiding from Govt...they can avoid the big mom pirate's surveillance....so this is my speculation..so what do you guys think about this....
 

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Totto Land Arc / Whole Cake Island Arc and Big Mom

I am expanding this thread to incorporate many things about Big Mom and those - inclusive of the people - who and which are related to her. Her defeat and final downfall will be the ultimate goal to save the inhabitants of the entire Totto Land, as well as those countries which may be likely had been claimed forcefully (and oppressed) since people do not seem to have any choice given.

One of the prominent islands that is known to us is Fishman Island, by which the entire nation is totally under the rule of Big Mom, and the country is strictly mandated to manufacture sweets for her on a regular basis and as and when when demanded. This form of governance, or specifically Big Mom's way of governance is solely focused on her and her empire - that is, monarchy is the main focus of loyalty and service pertaining to her.

In view of the large expanse of the "big boss" of the current arc which include the person herself, personality, character, abilities and capabilities, as well as her status as a yonko and her influence in the Totto Land and owned territories, and the One Piece World at large, we may like to extend our discussion further on this particular character. Other personnel can also be included such as her family - husbands and children - who have close relation with her, as well as her subordinates in her Crew, Big Mom Pirates. Additionally there may/will be other significant events - past, present and future - which may play an important role in relation to her, or revolve around her. Perhaps we may even be able to get some answers from the past events, occurrences or incidents that may not appear important back then but become more notable at the present moment. We may also base on these past and current information to help us speculate and predict events which may likely to happen in the future and some of those would be the fate of Fishman Island, the outcome of Jinbe and Big Mom's encounter and if Shirley's prediction may come to pass. Who will destroy the island - when and how?

I have taken the liberty to copy the relevant posts and quote them here for reference and for further discussions. Please do feel free to express your thoughts and opinion.

Here we go...

The “secret” of Totto Land and of Big Mom’s. What is the hidden truth? It is only “hidden” to the world outside of Totto Land. The residents in these islands definitely do not appear willing but they have no other choice but to obey. What kind of a leader/ruler would demand to “take and shorten” the lives of his/her subjects by killing them slowly? This ruling appears to be just as bad a country to live in as in the former Dressrosa kingdom under Doflamingo.

The “ceremony” takes place in Chocola-Town (or Chocolate Town) where the residents of Totto Land are assembled and asked a simple question, “Leave or Life”*? When they respond with “life”, a part of their life span is taken out of them. The “life” that is taken comes in the form of a small round shape object which the “collector” (a dark shadow) places in a small hand basket. Wow! That a whole lot of “lives” collected!

I have been wondering for a while about this special ability and how it works. Recall the time when Big Mom took away all the life span of her 16th son which killed him instantly, and the present chapter of Big Mom demanding two months worth of her subjects’ life span every year? When a person’s life is taken away, he dies (obviously) but when a person’s life is taken away slowly, then the question raised is which part of that person’s life – the current or the future ones – is taken?

Kinda hard to bring it into words. It’s not like we know how long we will live, but since this is a fictional story, the fruit user (Big Mom) is able to “see” how long a person can live. Say a person has a life span of 100 years, when Big Mom uses her soru soru no mi on that person, does she take the “ending part” of his/her life instead of the current one? If assuming the beginning part of a person’s life span is taken, say 10 years, then the person will age ten years instantly. It’s easy to see the difference if a person is 20 or 30 years old. But in Totto Land, the demand of “life” is only two months out of the entire life span per year, or one month’s “life” per six months. Generally it may not be significant for an adult of 20 years old for example to show much difference when he turns 20 years and 1 month old. However what if the “life” is taken out from a person’s future life span? Let’s put in a time-line for easy illustration. Say a person is 20 years old now and he has a life span of 80 years, and he has a life span of 10 years taken away from him.

20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31……70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80

If the first 10 years is taken away (20 to 29), this person will instantly become 30 years old. But if the “life” taken is at the ending part of his life span (80 and down to 71), he will then still remain the same age which is 20. In both cases, his life span is still shortened to 70 years.

Perhaps the above illustration does not show any significance but if Big Mom goes into a rampage or becomes more greedy in the future and starts to absorb more “lives” (and not just two months per year), then we will know how her devil fruit actually works and maybe how extensive it works as well. As for now, it is only my speculation and a point to note for future reference. We can also start a thread to discuss about her and her ability.

* “Leave or Life” - connotes that a citizen either leave the island or give a part of their life span. In this case, it is one month out of the entire life span. In fact, with the knowledge of Big Mom’s character towards how she treats Jinbe, for example, has already made it clear that there is no chance that any of her subjects can leave her island or her Crew. To leave – it means lost some parts of their body or death. Therefore it is understandable that the citizens will choose to sacrifice a part of their life span instead of dying. The stated condition of using such a connotation as a form of payment and thus receiving protection seems to be only an one-sided advantage to one party - Big Mom. The citizens don’t seem to gain anything except a slow death till their life span is totally drained out of them in the future. There is also a possibility that they may die prematurely if Big Mom starts her crazy crave for sweets and anyone can be unfortunate enough to be caught in her commotion and get their life taken away. Or get hit and die when the buildings which are smashed by Big Mom collapse on them.

Big Mom’s “secret” being leaked by her husband whom she has dumped. Giant-head explains that citizens of Totto Land have to contribute a one-month payment of their soul*** in every six months to the nation in exchange for Big Mom’s protection. This will make up a total of twelve months (or one year) of life span which takes six years to collect. With Big Mom’s soru-soru ability, she can manipulate the “souls” of people and takes some of them out as she wishes. After the “souls’ are collected, she then scatters them around throughout the island where the “souls” will then reside in different kind of objects, except for corpses and human bodies. When the objects receive the ‘souls”, they will be able to understand and use humans’ ability of listening, talking, moving, taking orders, and so on – like having the behaviour of human beings.
Truly, we are getting tons of food in Totto Land (like going for a buffet) with missing members in Luffy and Sanji Teams. Even Luffy himself - now with Nami - has lost track of Chopper and Carrot. Concurrently, Brook and Pedro are in danger of exposing their identity, while Pekoms' fate is still unknown. What's up with Sanji with that wristlets and between his family is still on hold. Big Mom's tea-party cum wedding ceremony is progressing with her workers doing the preparation and having handlers keeping an eye on her daughter, Purin. There are also Bege and Tamago who seem like standing on opposite opinion, and many of Big Mom's children who keep appearing one after another. Interestingly the appearance of Big Mom's husband may be a given, who is still unnamed though he has been with us for the past three chapters and I have to call him "Giant-head" for the time being.

With so much going on in the Island, we continue our "nakama search" - a long-time friend of Luffy who is potentially joining the Straw Hat Pirates but has been interrupted by Big Mom's scheme and Jinbe's whereabouts is totally hidden away.

What else do we have? Oh... Big Mom herself - may probably be facing a revolution in her empire in the near future, whether she is aware of it or not. Besides Bege, anyone else is up for it to go against Big Mom? Perhaps her husband, Giant-head - as innocently as he can be - in giving out information of Big Mom's secret may be considered as a silent rebellion. Additionally the daughters of the couple - Chiffon and Lola, who may seemingly stand on different sides of each parent of theirs.

There are lots to ponder about just solely on this arc. :hmm
I was thinking about the progress of this arc, that have a lot of stories to tell (where is Sanji mother and why he hates so much his family, Why Jinbe cowered; what is BM and the reason for her dream; Pedro history), and I'm not sure if Luffy will fight against BM now or not. The main reason is that I don't see this major landmark (win a battle against an yonkou) without the SH full crew assembled. Yes, I know that two guys from the monster trio are there and if we count with Jinbe, they will offer a hell of a fight, but we not talking abou Seven Warlordd here, but a force that was a rival for WB, someone that could have stoped BB and ia feared by the WG.

For me, Luffy will rescue Sanji and Jinbe will join the SH crew or at least, leave the BM pirates. Still not certain if Pedro and Brook will copy the RP. And Luffy will clash against BM, but it will be a drawn or they will have to stop. And after this, she will destroy FI.

For me, Luffy won't be BM nemesis, as I believe that BB will take one of his peers (and if he takes Shanks, it will be a cliche). I hope that he takes BM.
Actually your theory about how BM would destroy FI is pretty great and suits well and makes the prediction Arlong's sister made true.

There won't be a fight in this arc just later, after she has destroyed FI.
Pretty sure it says Luffy is the one who destroys Fishman Island, not Big Mom.
It's assumed he will because the silhouette looks a lot like Luffy, especially the "hat."
... Shirley said that she saw Luffy destroying FI or saw a destroied FI and Luffy was there?
She said that Luffy destroyed Fishman Island with his hands.


Only reason Luffy would be destroying Fishman Island is because he's moving the people of Fishman Island to the surface as Queen Otohime wanted.
...but we only see the silhouette; what if she was assuming it's Luffy because the figure looks like it's wearing a hat like Luffy's?
The anime doesn't show it like a silhouette, it clearly shows Luffy:
I'm almost positive she will destroy FI as soon as Jinbe defects, and they will all leave for FI only to arrive after it's destroyed. That's why Shirley saw Luffy in her vision, he was standing over wreckage he didn't cause.

Though Shirley was pretty convinced that it was Luffy that destroyed the island... idk. This is either a mystery as to how/why Luffy would personally destroy the place, or a mystery as to how Shirley was so convinced that it was Luffy himself if all she ever saw was what the reader saw ({the silhouette of} Luffy just standing over the destruction).
That silhouette is no doubt Luffy. Who else looks like that besides Luffy?

She also wasn't assuming, she's got clairvoyant abilities. What we were being shown was what she saw.

She even said "by his hands", so it means she saw him destroy it.

We also know her prophecies are a 100% accurate which is why she's usually afraid to use it.
... I don't see Big Mom going after Fishman Island, not without taking out Luffy first.

What makes that silhouette look like Luffy? The top of the figure that looks like it's wearing a strawhat?

We were shown a silhouette. We don't know how she really predicts - does she see a silhouette and assumes, or does she see the actual picture? IE, Luffy's face and all, while it was silhouette for us for suspense?
Doesn't matter since we already know 100% of her prophecies come true.

So, however she saw the other 100% of prophecies clearly implies the one she saw with Luffy is also accurate.

She clearly said she saw him destroying Fishman Island.

if the silhouette isn't Luffy, the who is it? who else looks like that?
that silhoutte could be fake luffy back in shabaody :D
Though, Big Mom might destroy Fishman Island to also piss Luffy off and make sure he comes after her... but given that he's already on her territory, I don't see Big Mom doing anything to FI yet though.
Indeed, but the prediction don't say how he will destroy it.
In this case would be indirectly, beating/angering Big Mom and leading her to destroy FI he will be therefore the cause of the FI destruction.
Shirley's prediction may well be an indirect course of event. If there is anything that is more precious than his own life, it will be his fellow men. If Jinbe's encounter with Big Mom ends up with a serious consequence of Fishman Island being threatened of destruction by Big Mom, then Luffy will definitely be on his "justice" gear to go full force against Big Mom, or rather to stop her from killing his friends. Fishman Island does have a special place that is close to his heart. :)
prediction mode: I still feel like all of this Sanji marriage stuff was an elaborate 2-birds-1-stone scheme Big Mam thought of to attack Luffy directly by taking a nakama while simultaneously gaining the Germa 66 (which I'm positive she'll say was 'barely a bolster to Totland' or something). This is all happening as a consequence of Luffy's claim to her territory at Fishman Island. It fits what she'd consider a 'price'.

In a way it'd be flattering- their bartering with big stuff (an important island territory) and Mam would be treating Luffy like I'd imagine she'd treat other yonkou that make a claim to her territory.
It still says he will.

And it has him in Fishman Island surrounded by flames.

And she does say that she sees Luffy doing it in her prophecy.

Just because it doesn't say how, we can't ignore the fact that all previous visions have been accurate. We don't know the details of them, so we have little basis by which to say she's wrong.

I'm sure there are plenty more. Let's discuss away ..... :)
 

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It seems Carrot and co. are all captured. Luffy has to really go all out now. WCI is more or less turning into Dressrosa, a mission that started with a simple goal evolving into an all-out war.
 

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Crazy prediction.

Nami may be a daughter of big mom.

think about this there are 39 daughters. Pudding(or Purin) is the 35th. Which means she is one of the youngest. Think of numbers 36-39. They must be as young and even as attractive as Pudding. Then take a good look at Nami. Plus am i the only one who thinks Nami and Pudding look similar.

i got this theory when that big tree in chapter 835 said that they cant oppose Nami.
 

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Thanks @ProGoddess for the initiative.

I don't know if anyone one has already said it, but I realized that tge forest, or at least the homings are important to BM, as there is some kind of tree on her flag. First I thought that she had some kind of DF related to it, but now I see that it's not the point.
 

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@ProGoddess
The “secret” of Totto Land and of Big Mom’s. What is the hidden truth? It is only “hidden” to the world outside of Totto Land. The residents in these islands definitely do not appear willing but they have no other choice but to obey. What kind of a leader/ruler would demand to “take and shorten” the lives of his/her subjects by killing them slowly? This ruling appears to be just as bad a country to live in as in the former Dressrosa kingdom under Doflamingo.

The “ceremony” takes place in Chocola-Town (or Chocolate Town) where the residents of Totto Land are assembled and asked a simple question, “Leave or Life”*? When they respond with “life”, a part of their life span is taken out of them. The “life” that is taken comes in the form of a small round shape object which the “collector” (a dark shadow) places in a small hand basket. Wow! That a whole lot of “lives” collected!

I have been wondering for a while about this special ability and how it works. Recall the time when Big Mom took away all the life span of her 16th son which killed him instantly, and the present chapter of Big Mom demanding two months worth of her subjects’ life span every year? When a person’s life is taken away, he dies (obviously) but when a person’s life is taken away slowly, then the question raised is which part of that person’s life – the current or the future ones – is taken?

Kinda hard to bring it into words. It’s not like we know how long we will live, but since this is a fictional story, the fruit user (Big Mom) is able to “see” how long a person can live. Say a person has a life span of 100 years, when Big Mom uses her soru soru no mi on that person, does she take the “ending part” of his/her life instead of the current one? If assuming the beginning part of a person’s life span is taken, say 10 years, then the person will age ten years instantly. It’s easy to see the difference if a person is 20 or 30 years old. But in Totto Land, the demand of “life” is only two months out of the entire life span per year, or one month’s “life” per six months. Generally it may not be significant for an adult of 20 years old for example to show much difference when he turns 20 years and 1 month old. However what if the “life” is taken out from a person’s future life span? Let’s put in a time-line for easy illustration. Say a person is 20 years old now and he has a life span of 80 years, and he has a life span of 10 years taken away from him.

20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31……70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80

If the first 10 years is taken away (20 to 29), this person will instantly become 30 years old. But if the “life” taken is at the ending part of his life span (80 and down to 71), he will then still remain the same age which is 20. In both cases, his life span is still shortened to 70 years.

Perhaps the above illustration does not show any significance but if Big Mom goes into a rampage or becomes more greedy in the future and starts to absorb more “lives” (and not just two months per year), then we will know how her devil fruit actually works and maybe how extensive it works as well. As for now, it is only my speculation and a point to note for future reference. We can also start a thread to discuss about her and her ability.

* “Leave or Life” - connotes that a citizen either leave the island or give a part of their life span. In this case, it is one month out of the entire life span. In fact, with the knowledge of Big Mom’s character towards how she treats Jinbe, for example, has already made it clear that there is no chance that any of her subjects can leave her island or her Crew. To leave – it means lost some parts of their body or death. Therefore it is understandable that the citizens will choose to sacrifice a part of their life span instead of dying. The stated condition of using such a connotation as a form of payment and thus receiving protection seems to be only an one-sided advantage to one party - Big Mom. The citizens don’t seem to gain anything except a slow death till their life span is totally drained out of them in the future. There is also a possibility that they may die prematurely if Big Mom starts her crazy crave for sweets and anyone can be unfortunate enough to be caught in her commotion and get their life taken away. Or get hit and die when the buildings which are smashed by Big Mom collapse on them.

Big Mom’s “secret” being leaked by her husband whom she has dumped. Giant-head explains that citizens of Totto Land have to contribute a one-month payment of their soul*** in every six months to the nation in exchange for Big Mom’s protection. This will make up a total of twelve months (or one year) of life span which takes six years to collect. With Big Mom’s soru-soru ability, she can manipulate the “souls” of people and takes some of them out as she wishes. After the “souls’ are collected, she then scatters them around throughout the island where the “souls” will then reside in different kind of objects, except for corpses and human bodies. When the objects receive the ‘souls”, they will be able to understand and use humans’ ability of listening, talking, moving, taking orders, and so on – like having the behaviour of human beings.
Enjoyed reading the analysis, it's very agreeable. Though Big Mom appears to give a semblance of choice, she still coerces others to capitulate to choices that benefit her, and if not, she sees it as betrayal.

We also learn of Big Mom's insecurity being that she interprets anything not in her favour as betrayal; Jinbei even tried to appease her by offering a Poneglyph, she still felt sour about it and as per usual, expressed her gratuitous nature to punish in spite of her understanding of freedom.

The trading of 2 months of one's life was also very telling of what kind of ship Big Mom is running when they're having to shorten their lives slowly, rather than pay taxes (I'd assume they still have to pay taxes despite paying with their lives bi-yearly).
 

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@ProGoddess

Enjoyed reading the analysis, it's very agreeable. Though Big Mom appears to give a semblance of choice, she still coerces others to capitulate to choices that benefit her, and if not, she sees it as betrayal.

We also learn of Big Mom's insecurity being that she interprets anything not in her favour as betrayal; Jinbei even tried to appease her by offering a Poneglyph, she still felt sour about it and as per usual, expressed her gratuitous nature to punish in spite of her understanding of freedom.

The trading of 2 months of one's life was also very telling of what kind of ship Big Mom is running when they're having to shorten their lives slowly, rather than pay taxes (I'd assume they still have to pay taxes despite paying with their lives bi-yearly).

When we analyse deeper on Big Mom's governance, it just gives one a feeling of helplessness. Imagine if we do not have the law of human rights (in our world) to protect us and we have an evil monarch ruling over us, it would be like a living hell or a hell on earth.

Big Mom's seemingly choices is as good as no choice given. Thinking back about Jinbe, the roulette that was presented, would anyone call that a choice? Yes, it is - only in Big Mom's eyes. Wherever spot the dice lands, Jinbe is going to lose something - an arm, a leg, his life or the lives of others (like his crew-mates for example). You are right, every choices provided are in favour of Big Mom, and only for her alone.

Her regular consumption of human "lives" or life span will ultimately reduces the number of inhabitants in her country and obviously the mortality rate will be much higher than any other country due to its population's premature death. Though Big Mom may have acquired many husbands and forcing her children to marriage, that may not be necessarily mean a higher fertility rate. From what the manga has shown so far, she seems to have only one or two kids (or maybe 3 or 4?) with each husband. Though this fact is not established yet, but it does not give an impression that she conceives many children with each of her husband. Lola and Chiffon are two of them from Mr Pound. I'm not sure about Brulee and Cracker, but Brulee calls Cracker "big brother." So it may seem that they may come from the same father. Of course I can't rule out that both of them acknowledge each other and on friendly terms which is why they will address each other as siblings. It's like Purin who addresses Lola as her elder sister. Likewise for her other siblings whom she has no ill feelings of.

Besides Big Mom herself, her children who have already married - we have also not seen many of them have children. The only grandchild is from Bege and Chiffon. Well, I guess it's still early too speculate further. We shall wait and see then.

Though some of the above-mentioned may be more of my speculation, we do know the ulterior motive of Big Mom's arrangement of political marriage of her children. But in terms of her empire as a whole, I do feel alike like you, in that she has the inner fear of losing what she owned and claimed. Her nation and people are her wealth and asset. Without the people, Totto Land is just an empty and deserted land. Somehow I think she is fearful of losing it.

In every nation, every citizens (with some exceptions) have to pay taxes. I reckon, besides the mandatory contribution of their life span, there may be other forms of tax collection and at the minimal, in the form of money. Other forms of payment I suspect could be free labour or slavery, paying regular tribute and contribution through specialise trade such as manufacturing and production (an example would be Candy factory in Fishman Island), or rations of food and supplies, and a portion is mandated to contribute to Big Mom's empire, and so on.



Thanks @ProGoddess for the initiative.

I don't know if anyone has already said it, but I realized that tge forest, or at least the homings are important to BM, as there is some kind of tree on her flag. First I thought that she had some kind of DF related to it, but now I see that it's not the point.

Haha! :) As far as the story goes, Seducing Woods seems to be the only forest that is in Whole Cake Island. You may be correct there, as the forest could be important to Big Mom. Since there is a particular tree-person as well as her daughter, Brulee, being there, it could be a place of "persecution." In Chapter 836, Brulee clearly states that no one has ever leave the forest alive. In other words, if any intruders come to Whole Cake Island without Big Mom's approval, they will/may be dealt with in this forest.

On another way of looking at it, the forest is like a "live being" as we can see all the trees, plants, and everything else are able to move. These are all thanks to the souls taken by Big Mom from the common people. I guess the significant value of this place could be due to the fact that multiple souls are scattered there which have created a living forest. Obviously these "homies" are also Big Mom's army. As long as they are alive, intruders and enemies will definitely be slaughtered (like what Brulee said). Well, our Straw Hats and friends are an exception. Even then, we have Carrot and Chopper being caught. Brulee would have killed them if her mother has told her so in the first place. They are kept alive solely because of Big Mom's beast collection.

The tree on the Big Mom Pirates' flag could represent Seducing Wood. The middle represents Whole Cake Island, while the other surrounding pieces symbolise each part of Whole Cake Island or Totto Land.
 
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With the introduction of homies and how Big Mom's Soul Soul fruit works in bringing them to life, I wonder if it's possible( or a reality) of there being a homie with a devil fruit?

We know of Dr Vegapunk's research and succeeding in feeding inanimate objects fruits and know that animal can eat fruits too ( Pierre, Chopper), so homies technically should be able to as well?

Maybe their lifespan has to be taken into account? No indication has been given to show that they wither away or are in need of replenishment of soul, so I assume that isn't the case and they just live until Big Mom wills it.
 
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