People are generally far too dismissive of fug based on workshop events. Overall, the fug events we saw at the workshop battle are simply karaka's actions. A small faction of fug from a baby slayer who tried to bite more than he could chew. And that while against the wishes of the people who are actually in charge of fug. And people also ignore that it was fug that foiled karaka's plans as well. Not bam, not koon... It was the people who are actually in charge of fug who made sure to blindside karaka and ensure that bam would get the thorn regardless of what karaka did, hence it fusing with bam without karaka's faction noticing. That's a rather significant slap in the face from, presumably, luslec's faction to karaka. And of course then you have jinsung paying a visit to karaka to remind him of his place.
Of course, that doesn't mean karaka just stopped or anything, he is within fug a god after all but the implication here I would argue is fairly clear that karaka is simply not in charge, probably does not have THAT much influence within the organization as a whole outside of his own faction and his standing among the slayers and elders who are actually in charge has probably been severely diminished given his shenanigans.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Wouldn't evan be able to use his guide powers for this bit? Evan's guide powers seem to be useful for short term planning. I also doubt either guide would be able to do much with karaka though. Interesting, guide powers coming into play here would also mean they somehow worked in tandem with administrator shenanigans. I guess guide powers could to begin with come from administrators....
I’m sure that Evan used his powers to get into the ship and drop in the piece of Karaka undetected. But I don’t think his guide ability helped convince Karaka to give a piece of himself to Evan.
As I understood it, he took a piece of Karaka's armor and threw it into the Zahard armies gate generator on one of their ships which connected Karaka's pocket dimension to the ship and blew it up by forming a massive dimensional gateway in the center of it and allowing everybody to gate over through that. So presumably that ship was dedicated to gating in reinforcements.
I would bet Evan knows generally about ships like that but I’m guessing you mean about the whole “portal to teleport Evankhell” thing.
Seems to me that guides connect to the flow of shinsoo in a way that lets them see the will of the Administrators (who control the flow in the first place). Hard to say if guides directly communicate with administrators but it wouldn’t surprise me.
I don't know. I used to think that. But given what we've learned in recent arcs isn't it more likely that the real power in the Zahard Empire, people like Zahard, just don't care? To him and Gustang they are the equivalent of bugs. Just bugs that are worth calling an exterminator for.
Karaka himself may represent a faction in FUG but how willing he is to make decisions on behalf of the whole organization regarding Baam always made them seem somewhat weak.
Which is part of the problem I had with them early on. They were all style and no substance. Like the antagonistic approach they took with Baam. The whole ridiculous Viole persona thing. Sort of announcing him on every floor. Tolerating all the infighting around the workshop battle. The way they only got by because it seemed like every test administrator "conveniently" worked for them (which stretched suspension of disbelief to the limit). On a very basic level they just seemed stupid to me. Something that SIU had to constantly write around.
It's different now though because all of that has been swept aside. They're role has been simplified. Not everything is a FUG conspiracy anymore and that makes them a lot easier for me to enjoy.
We know from SIU that even family heads get a little anxious when a new slayer appears. But yeah, it remains the case that fug as a whole is not a threat to zahard or the family heads. Thats not even debatable. But is also a different thing from fug not being irrelevant or small or whatever.
Karaka basically did everything behind their backs and was ultimately spanked by the fug elders though. They didn't even have to move all that much, thats how easily they dealt with karaka.
Yeah, the antagonistic approach they took to bam gets weirder and weirder. The only explanation I can come up with at this point is that they were concerned bam wouldn't do what they wanted hence the coercion. How they announced bam just doesn't make sense with the current arc. Once we learned of grace I figured luslec named bam like that as a huge middle finger to the empire. And the intention was to specifically signal to zahard himself that v's heir was coming for his head and there wasn't a fucking thing he could do about it because he was a regular. But with the current chapter clearly that is not the situation and this has already escalated into a mini war involving high rankers. Meaning that if the middle finger fug went ahead with had actually worked it would have backfired on the spot given what zahard is currently pulling with his army. That said, eventually something will have to happen so that bam can continue climbing the tower without interference from zahard. It wouldn't make sense that this ends with bam escaping this station after all, at the moment there is nothing stopping zahard from having his army following bam floor after floor after floor.... I think this will end up with perhaps multiple administrators getting in zahard's way.
As far as fug infiltrating the tests, I don't think this is that big a stretch tbh. We are talking about a very ancient organization taking over a bunch of tests which the empire largely does not care about. It is fairly clear the family heads aren't a single side in this conflict, gustang might even be somehow supporting fug.
I don't know. I used to think that. But given what we've learned in recent arcs isn't it more likely that the real power in the Zahard Empire, people like Zahard, just don't care? To him and Gustang they are the equivalent of bugs. Just bugs that aren't worth calling an exterminator for.
Karaka himself may represent a faction in FUG but how willing he is to make decisions on behalf of the whole organization regarding Baam always made them seem somewhat weak.
Which is part of the problem I had with them early on. They were all style and no substance. Like the antagonistic approach they took with Baam. The whole ridiculous Viole persona thing. Sort of announcing him on every floor. Tolerating all the infighting around the workshop battle. The way they only got by because it seemed like every test administrator "conveniently" worked for them (which stretched suspension of disbelief to the limit). On a very basic level they just seemed stupid to me. Something that SIU had to constantly write around.
It's different now though because all of that has been swept aside. They're role has been simplified. Not everything is a FUG conspiracy anymore and that makes them a lot easier for me to enjoy.
I really didn’t like FUG because of that. “Bam’s finally gonna make it here and succeed. Oh wait... FUG rigged the test.... again....”
I think that’s part of the reason I never took to Hoaqin - since he was just wrapped up in all of that for me. Like you said @Jammin its better now, so maybe I can start to enjoy White a bit too.
We know from SIU that even family heads get a little anxious when a new slayer appears. But yeah, it remains the case that fug as a whole is not a threat to zahard or the family heads. Thats not even debatable. But is also a different thing from fug not being irrelevant or small or whatever.
Karaka basically did everything behind their backs and was ultimately spanked by the fug elders though. They didn't even have to move all that much, thats how easily they dealt with karaka.
Yeah, the antagonistic approach they took to bam gets weirder and weirder. The only explanation I can come up with at this point is that they were concerned bam wouldn't do what they wanted hence the coercion. How they announced bam just doesn't make sense with the current arc. Once we learned of grace I figured luslec named bam like that as a huge middle finger to the empire. And the intention was to specifically signal to zahard himself that v's heir was coming for his head and there wasn't a fucking thing he could do about it because he was a regular. But with the current chapter clearly that is not the situation and this has already escalated into a mini war involving high rankers. Meaning that if the middle finger fug went ahead with had actually worked it would have backfired on the spot given what zahard is currently pulling with his army. That said, eventually something will have to happen so that bam can continue climbing the tower without interference from zahard. It wouldn't make sense that this ends with bam escaping this station after all, at the moment there is nothing stopping zahard from having his army following bam floor after floor after floor.... I think this will end up with perhaps multiple administrators getting in zahard's way.
As far as fug infiltrating the tests, I don't think this is that big a stretch tbh. We are talking about a very ancient organization taking over a bunch of tests which the empire largely does not care about. It is fairly clear the family heads aren't a single side in this conflict, gustang might even be somehow supporting fug.
That’s a really good point about Viole. If you’re gonna make a shadow play you stay quiet until you’re ready and then you pounce with everything you’ve got. Maybe some of them felt complacent and protected by the Regulars area (if Viole stayed under their control I don’t think they’d let him ride the Hell Train - shoot Jinsung even tried to prevent it from happening).
If they flaunted the rules of the Tower they could have helped Bam climb through protected areas in the Tower while continuously showing Zahard the middle finger double barreled. However, I think they underestimated how much Zahard is willing to bend the rules.
If they flaunted the rules of the Tower they could have helped Bam climb through protected areas in the Tower while continuously showing Zahard the middle finger double barreled. However, I think they underestimated how much Zahard is willing to bend the rules.
TBH I dont think FUG actually thought that Baam would ever appear on Zahards radar. Why would he? If not for the mechanism Zahard set up on the hidden floor, Zahard would still be in the dark. Machesney even said as much to Jinsung... "the problem is not that Mascheney knows about Baams existence but that Zahard knows"
That’s a really good point about Viole. If you’re gonna make a shadow play you stay quiet until you’re ready and then you pounce with everything you’ve got. Maybe some of them felt complacent and protected by the Regulars area (if Viole stayed under their control I don’t think they’d let him ride the Hell Train - shoot Jinsung even tried to prevent it from happening).
If they flaunted the rules of the Tower they could have helped Bam climb through protected areas in the Tower while continuously showing Zahard the middle finger double barreled. However, I think they underestimated how much Zahard is willing to bend the rules.
The hell train seems like a fated destination for bam in general. I don't think it makes all that much sense for fug to not have wanted to ride the hell train. Jinsung did try to stop him but it wasn't because he objected to the train in general IIRC, rather he didn't want bam to ride the train at that specific point in time. Save that for later or something. Bam at that point had very unstable powers and jinsung was to an extent aware of that. And seeing how things turned up... it wouldn't really have made a difference for bam if he ridden the train later. If bam hadn't gone to the train.... rachel would have done what she wanted and failed at everything anyways. Meanwhile bam would have had a much smoother ride, not run into white who awoke anyways... Bam would have done his revolution, gone to the floor of death because it did call to him anyways... And going to the hidden floor was not something he needed to do anyways. And if he did, it doesn't make that big a difference power wise since the only thing he got there that he wouldn't have gotten otherwise is the orb. Which alternatively he would have likely eventually learned on his own.
TBH I dont think FUG actually thought that Baam would ever appear on Zahards radar. Why would he? If not for the mechanism Zahard set up on the hidden floor, Zahard would still be in the dark. Machesney even said as much to Jinsung... "the problem is not that Mascheney knows about Baams existence but that Zahard knows"
The hell train seems like a fated destination for bam in general. I don't think it makes all that much sense for fug to not have wanted to ride the hell train. Jinsung did try to stop him but it wasn't because he objected to the train in general IIRC, rather he didn't want bam to ride the train at that specific point in time. Save that for later or something. Bam at that point had very unstable powers and jinsung was to an extent aware of that. And seeing how things turned up... it wouldn't really have made a difference for bam if he ridden the train later. If bam hadn't gone to the train.... rachel would have done what she wanted and failed at everything anyways. Meanwhile bam would have had a much smoother ride, not run into white who awoke anyways... Bam would have done his revolution, gone to the floor of death because it did call to him anyways... And going to the hidden floor was not something he needed to do anyways. And if he did, it doesn't make that big a difference power wise since the only thing he got there that he wouldn't have gotten otherwise is the orb. Which alternatively he would have likely eventually learned on his own.
Without the rice pot Bam wouldn’t have been able to undergo any Revolution. Yes he could complete that without the HF.... and it’s possible he would have done that without confronting his Viole persona but I don’t think so - I think his conflict with that had been holding him back. Without his full Revolution, I don’t think Bam would ever have discovered his true shinsoo quality.
Bam’s need to ride the train and go to the FoD was exactly a personal journey. It seems so far that is the closest he’s come to walking in V’s and Zahard’s shoes, and he needs to do more of that.
In summary, the Hell Train was critical to his growth. Some experiences change you in ways that none other can. Facing Zahard of the past will certainly end up being one of those for Bam.
Without the rice pot Bam wouldn’t have been able to undergo any Revolution. Yes he could complete that without the HF.... and it’s possible he would have done that without confronting his Viole persona but I don’t think so - I think his conflict with that had been holding him back. Without his full Revolution, I don’t think Bam would ever have discovered his true shinsoo quality.
Bam’s need to ride the train and go to the FoD was exactly a personal journey. It seems so far that is the closest he’s come to walking in V’s and Zahard’s shoes, and he needs to do more of that.
In summary, the Hell Train was critical to his growth. Some experiences change you in ways that none other can. Facing Zahard of the past will certainly end up being one of those for Bam.
Bma getting a proper revolution was never conditioned on him going to the hidden floor. Bam could have gotten to the hell train at any point while he was a d class regular and he would have gotten the same revolution. Eating his data self is presumably an advantage but just travelling the hell train would be enough for him to get a complete revolution.
As far as bam's shinsoo quality, why would you think that? For one thing, its completely irrelevant to his revolution. If bam climbed the tower he would have had to discover his shinsoo quality the same was as anyone else. Which is... not terrible.
The hell train of course was critical to his growth, but he could have gone at literally any other point and it would have added to about the same. Except for the shinsoo quality which he would have had to discover on his own.
Bma getting a proper revolution was never conditioned on him going to the hidden floor. Bam could have gotten to the hell train at any point while he was a d class regular and he would have gotten the same revolution. Eating his data self is presumably an advantage but just travelling the hell train would be enough for him to get a complete revolution.
As far as bam's shinsoo quality, why would you think that? For one thing, its completely irrelevant to his revolution. If bam climbed the tower he would have had to discover his shinsoo quality the same was as anyone else. Which is... not terrible.
The hell train of course was critical to his growth, but he could have gone at literally any other point and it would have added to about the same. Except for the shinsoo quality which he would have had to discover on his own.
I key his shinsoo quality to completing his Revolution because that’s how SIU told the story.
Bam learned how to make an orb and fill it with shinsoo but it still wasn’t his. He learned to fill it with thorn-laced shinsoo but it still wasn’t his.
It was only after absorbing his sworn enemy and realizing that he had to take ownership of his own power and not look to anyone or anything else that he was able to use 25th Bam style shinsoo.
You could argue that he might have made this connection without his sworn enemy, but I liken this to the Waterfall in Naruto. Anyone can learn to accept their true selves but those devices (Bam’s sworn enemy and Naruto’s reflection in the waterfall) helped them do something that had previously been hidden from them.
Before you call BS on this, we all have key moments in our lives that set us on a particular path. Might I even say this is very much like the Butterfly effect.
I key his shinsoo quality to completing his Revolution because that’s how SIU told the story.
Bam learned how to make an orb and fill it with shinsoo but it still wasn’t his. He learned to fill it with thorn-laced shinsoo but it still wasn’t his.
It was only after absorbing his sworn enemy and realizing that he had to take ownership of his own power and not look to anyone or anything else that he was able to use 25th Bam style shinsoo.
You could argue that he might have made this connection without his sworn enemy, but I liken this to the Waterfall in Naruto. Anyone can learn to accept their true selves but those devices (Bam’s sworn enemy and Naruto’s reflection in the waterfall) helped them do something that had previously been hidden from them.
Before you call BS on this, we all have key moments in our lives that set us on a particular path. Might I even say this is very much like the Butterfly effect.
I think you are mixing two different things here. Learning a shinsoo quality is simply not a requirement for revolution. Just like revolution is simply not a requirement for mastering shinsoo qualities. These are in fact too completely different things, shinsoo qualities don't pertain to revolution any more than bam's any other skills. That is why his peers were able to learn shinsoo qualities without undergoing revolution. Learning shinsoo qualities is simply a way to quickly power up, which is basically what eduan was going for at that point.
Had bam never visited the hidden floor he would have continued, and completed, his revolution alongside the god of guardians. Getting to the hidden floor and meeting his data self at the most made revolution smoother but that is it. And his shinsoo quality would have come in time, its not like people only find those in that exact context.
I think you are mixing two different things here. Learning a shinsoo quality is simply not a requirement for revolution. Just like revolution is simply not a requirement for mastering shinsoo qualities. These are in fact too completely different things, shinsoo qualities don't pertain to revolution any more than bam's any other skills. That is why his peers were able to learn shinsoo qualities without undergoing revolution. Learning shinsoo qualities is simply a way to quickly power up, which is basically what eduan was going for at that point.
Had bam never visited the hidden floor he would have continued, and completed, his revolution alongside the god of guardians. Getting to the hidden floor and meeting his data self at the most made revolution smoother but that is it. And his shinsoo quality would have come in time, its not like people only find those in that exact context.
I’m not “mixing two things.” By the way SIU wrote the HF arc, at least for Bam they are intricately connected.
It is not that shinsoo quality is required for Revolution, but it seems that at least for Bam a proper completion of Revolution was necessary to unlocking his shinsoo quality.
SIU shows Bam talking to his sworn enemy (and his other collected things) inside himself right before he unleashes 25th style. By placing the flashback right next to the pivotal moment in the fight and Bam’s growth in using his shinsoo quality, SIU is making the statement that “these two things are connected.” Bam’s mastery of his shinsoo quality is directly related to how well he understands himself.
I’m not “mixing two things.” By the way SIU wrote the HF arc, at least for Bam they are intricately connected.
It is not that shinsoo quality is required for Revolution, but it seems that at least for Bam a proper completion of Revolution was necessary to unlocking his shinsoo quality.
SIU shows Bam talking to his sworn enemy (and his other collected things) inside himself right before he unleashes 25th style. By placing the flashback right next to the pivotal moment in the fight and Bam’s growth in using his shinsoo quality, SIU is making the statement that “these two things are connected.” Bam’s mastery of his shinsoo quality is directly related to how well he understands himself.
Bam fully mastered his shinsoo quality before revolution. Eduan was looking to strengthen bam a bit before continuing revolution after all. Shinsoo qualities are laughably easy to master by default. We saw androsi do it before even bam. Aguero did it quickly after he got his head out of his ass. Of course, adding shinwonryu to it is a step up.
Of course, bam using his black shinsoo probably has something to do with revolution but even then it being related to his orb or him having it being tied to the orb is... well, not supported by evidence. What reason do we have to think he NEEDS the orb to use the black shinsoo? At that moment we saw bam using virtually every power he had acquired up to that point but he clearly can use all of them independently simply because they are different things. We have seen bam use the orb without black shinsoo, black shinsoo without the orb...
I also add to it that Koon couldn’t use his ice shinsoo until he acknowledged his heritage and Rak will not be able to fully use his without learning about or at least embracing being connected to an Ancient.
Bam fully mastered his shinsoo quality before revolution. Eduan was looking to strengthen bam a bit before continuing revolution after all. Shinsoo qualities are laughably easy to master by default. We saw androsi do it before even bam. Aguero did it quickly after he got his head out of his ass. Of course, adding shinwonryu to it is a step up.
Of course, bam using his black shinsoo probably has something to do with revolution but even then it being related to his orb or him having it being tied to the orb is... well, not supported by evidence. What reason do we have to think he NEEDS the orb to use the black shinsoo? At that moment we saw bam using virtually every power he had acquired up to that point but he clearly can use all of them independently simply because they are different things. We have seen bam use the orb without black shinsoo, black shinsoo without the orb...
I think we are still stuck in the shape/quality debate and it’s semantics.
When I say shinsoo quality I mean Bam’s black shinsoo because that’s analogous to electricity shinsoo or ice shinsoo. When Eduan said he had 3 qualities he listed Electricty as his first - NOT a spear. Exactly as you describe one can use their quality without a particular shape.... because if AA’s quality is an ice spear then.... what is the ice shinsoo he’s using?
Regardless, what I mean is that SIU placing Bam’s completing of Revolution in a scene right next to him using his black shinsoo is classic storytelling that two events are connected together.
When I say shinsoo quality I mean Bam’s black shinsoo because that’s analogous to electricity shinsoo or ice shinsoo. When Eduan said he had 3 qualities he listed Electricty as his first - NOT a spear. Exactly as you describe one can use their quality without a particular shape.... because if AA’s quality is an ice spear then.... what is the ice shinsoo he’s using?
Regardless, what I mean is that SIU placing Bam’s completing of Revolution in a scene right next to him using his black shinsoo is classic storytelling that two events are connected together.
We don't know what the black shinsoo is. We don't know if its comparable to electricity or fire or other confirmed attributes. Even if it was, it wouldn't make a difference.
When aguero used the clicker he got both, his shinsoo attribute and shape. Bam in theory got both as well. Of course, the simple reality is that his orb lacked an attribute as far as we can tell. And the series has never made the point that his orb was somehow incomplete. Eduan didn't go "ok, NOW its time to get your attribute". Basically, even if it the black shinsoo was an attribute, it is still a different thing from his current orb. His current orb is as far as we know 100% complete. Even IF the black shinsoo is a shinsoo attribute in the same way as electricity, bam would still lack the shinsoo shape it would go with. And this shinsoo shape would still be a different thing from the orb. As in, bam would have "orb" first and second a "black -insert shape here-". Of course, bam can insert black shinsoo into an orb but as far as we know that is not necessarily the same as making an orb with an attribute seeing that orbs are to begin with meant to have shinsoo packed into them.
Don’t hate on Evan. I love Evan and I think the story is written in a way to highlight Hwaryun and we don’t see Evan shine so much. He got Yuri to the Floor of Tests on his own and got Yuri to Bam on the Hell Train.
I used to really like Evan, as i generally like calm type character giving off the cool vibes. But got over that with constant bashing by Yuri as if he is some kind of comic fodder and getting used by HR and being told by HR what to do. Those were the last straws.
From the last chap thread you know how i dislike it when random idiotic angry gals in shonen trashes and thrashes a cool character.
So far my fav chara from high ranker is as you probably know Jinsung. Cool, composed, I dont give a * type mood and yet cares about people at times (one he loved enough to kill off the branch and Bam). Yuri or Androssi would think five times to thrash him thats for sure.
People are generally far too dismissive of fug based on workshop events. Overall, the fug events we saw at the workshop battle are simply karaka's actions. A small faction of fug from a baby slayer who tried to bite more than he could chew. And that while against the wishes of the people who are actually in charge of fug. And people also ignore that it was fug that foiled karaka's plans as well. Not bam, not koon... It was the people who are actually in charge of fug who made sure to blindside karaka and ensure that bam would get the thorn regardless of what karaka did, hence it fusing with bam without karaka's faction noticing. That's a rather significant slap in the face from, presumably, luslec's faction to karaka. And of course then you have jinsung paying a visit to karaka to remind him of his place.
FUG is too messed up to be seen as an alternative to Zahards rule. Arguably Zahards rule has more stability. Fug is just a death cult.
May be it had good in it when V and Arlene formed it (given V s personal subordinate took over the leadership i guess V is the main founder and Arlene tagged along but who knows) but now its just death cult
FUG is too messed up to be seen as an alternative to Zahards rule. Arguably Zahards rule has more stability. Fug is just a death cult.
May be it had good in it when V and Arlene formed it (given V s personal subordinate took over the leadership i guess V is the main founder and Arlene tagged along but who knows) but now its just death cult
I haven't really thought of fug as an alternative to zahard. So far their goal has been to kill zahard, they have never spoken of taking his throne for themselves.
Depends on your point of view. For me it's like this: Hwa Ryun wants Bam to survive. So instead of letting him rush to his death, she tries saving his life while respecting his whishes.
I'm pretty sure she wasn't respecting his wishes when she tried to sacrifice Yuri's life on the Floor of Death, or when she essentially did sacrifice Clone Girl leading into this battle. Never mind the current situation. Or helping enslave him to FUG to begin with. Hwa Ryun cares very little for Baam's wishes. Not enough to ever even bother asking him what they are, in all truth.
I used to really like Evan, as i generally like calm type character giving off the cool vibes. But got over that with constant bashing by Yuri as if he is some kind of comic fodder and getting used by HR and being told by HR what to do. Those were the last straws.
From the last chap thread you know how i dislike it when random idiotic angry gals in shonen trashes and thrashes a cool character.
So far my fav chara from high ranker is as you probably know Jinsung. Cool, composed, I dont give a * type mood and yet cares about people at times (one he loved enough to kill off the branch and Bam). Yuri or Androssi would think five times to thrash him thats for sure.
DUDE why are you ruining Evans moment of glory. He knew how to do it because his guide power told him so. le end
FUG is too messed up to be seen as an alternative to Zahards rule. Arguably Zahards rule has more stability. Fug is just a death cult.
May be it had good in it when V and Arlene formed it (given V s personal subordinate took over the leadership i guess V is the main founder and Arlene tagged along but who knows) but now its just death cult
RFLMAO I was trolling a little about Evan. Given his statement about sacrificing allies and needing to survive it seems he can see the paths he could take before he drops in the Karaka worm. It’s true this is the most effective thing we’ve seen from him in a while and I hope it continues.
We don't know what the black shinsoo is. We don't know if its comparable to electricity or fire or other confirmed attributes. Even if it was, it wouldn't make a difference.
When aguero used the clicker he got both, his shinsoo attribute and shape. Bam in theory got both as well. Of course, the simple reality is that his orb lacked an attribute as far as we can tell. And the series has never made the point that his orb was somehow incomplete. Eduan didn't go "ok, NOW its time to get your attribute". Basically, even if it the black shinsoo was an attribute, it is still a different thing from his current orb. His current orb is as far as we know 100% complete. Even IF the black shinsoo is a shinsoo attribute in the same way as electricity, bam would still lack the shinsoo shape it would go with. And this shinsoo shape would still be a different thing from the orb. As in, bam would have "orb" first and second a "black -insert shape here-". Of course, bam can insert black shinsoo into an orb but as far as we know that is not necessarily the same as making an orb with an attribute seeing that orbs are to begin with meant to have shinsoo packed into them.
To simplify the debate, I’m not even gonna get into what it is here - although we do know the black shinsoo was more effective against Zahard.
My main point was that Bam’s trip on the Hell Train and the visit to the HF was essential to him being able to use that black shinsoo. SIU’s delay of showing us what happened in his revolution until the middle of the fight (right before he uses the black shinsoo) shows they’re connected.
I haven't really thought of fug as an alternative to zahard. So far their goal has been to kill zahard, they have never spoken of taking his throne for themselves.
To simplify the debate, I’m not even gonna get into what it is here - although we do know the black shinsoo was more effective against Zahard.
My main point was that Bam’s trip on the Hell Train and the visit to the HF was essential to him being able to use that black shinsoo. SIU’s delay of showing us what happened in his revolution until the middle of the fight (right before he uses the black shinsoo) shows they’re connected.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
This is true, we don’t know what their real end game is.
And my point would be that it wasn't. There is no reason for us to think bam getting his black shinsoo was dependent on any of the stuff that happened on the hidden floor. Certainly it relates to revolution but bam was going to complete revolution, and thus find his true self shenanigans, regardless of hidden floor stuff. That is what the guardian was for anyways, guide irregulars through revolution. That moment you reference was meant to show bam using the collective of stuff he has devoured through his tower climb. Revolution, shinsoo quality/shapes, admin powers, they are all independent upgrades of one another which at that point bam finally combined and used together. Unless the implication here is that bam without all of that would have found an entirely different skillset or true self without going to the hidden floor. Though tbh that makes no sense to me.
it would be interesting to hear from them what their endgame is beyond killing zahard and his cronies. So far I hadn't really thought of them as having a goal beyond that at all. Odds are that each slayer would have a different take on his considering their agendas are not necessarily the same. As in, some slayers could be thinking of actually taking over his target while the others might not have a goal beyond killing their target or avenging v/grace.
And my point would be that it wasn't. There is no reason for us to think bam getting his black shinsoo was dependent on any of the stuff that happened on the hidden floor. Certainly it relates to revolution but bam was going to complete revolution, and thus find his true self shenanigans, regardless of hidden floor stuff. That is what the guardian was for anyways, guide irregulars through revolution. That moment you reference was meant to show bam using the collective of stuff he has devoured through his tower climb. Revolution, shinsoo quality/shapes, admin powers, they are all independent upgrades of one another which at that point bam finally combined and used together. Unless the implication here is that bam without all of that would have found an entirely different skillset or true self without going to the hidden floor. Though tbh that makes no sense to me.
it would be interesting to hear from them what their endgame is beyond killing zahard and his cronies. So far I hadn't really thought of them as having a goal beyond that at all. Odds are that each slayer would have a different take on his considering their agendas are not necessarily the same. As in, some slayers could be thinking of actually taking over his target while the others might not have a goal beyond killing their target or avenging v/grace.
My point is that without his trip to the HF he would not have figured it out. I see it like a baking recipe that things need to happen in a certain order. You can’t mix flour, sugar, milk, and put in the oven for 400 degrees, then take it out and mix in eggs, vanilla, and serve. Just the same, without confronting his past self (his sworn enemy), Bam’s sense of self was fragmented and he would be unable to use his true power (the black shinsoo).
That moment was not showing Bam mixed everything together. Instead it was showing that Bam didn’t define himself and his power from those other things. Yes, he can use them as power, but they aren’t the source of his true power. That white line (or the spiritual meaning behind it) is his true power.
Is it possible he could have done it somewhere else? Maybe. Bam needed some way to confront his past and he’d been avoiding it up until the HF. He avoided conversations about Viole with his friends and avoided thinking about it within himself. The sworn enemy Viole allowed Bam to express those feelings that he had hidden. Without a catalyst I can’t see how he wouldn’t continue to be fragmented inside.
I'm pretty sure she wasn't respecting his wishes when she tried to sacrifice Yuri's life on the Floor of Death, or when she essentially did sacrifice Clone Girl leading into this battle. Never mind the current situation. Or helping enslave him to FUG to begin with. Hwa Ryun cares very little for Baam's wishes. Not enough to ever even bother asking him what they are, in all truth.
If she tried to sacrifice Yuri, Yuri would most likely be dead. She used her as bait, yes. The way the conversation went i believe that she never thought that Yuri would die. The clone girl sacrificed herself to help the regulars (Bam) to be precise. Yes, Hwa set it into motion, but the clone did it out of her own free will.
Let's wait til the current situation is concluded before we draw conclusions about it.
Well yeah, that wasn't one of their best moments. On the other hand, they are the ones keeping him alive in the first place. If they didn't made the irregular disappear, the Zahard Empire would have most likely done it sooner than later. Or the battle right now - let's take FUG away - what's left is Yuri and Evan.
She doesn't need to ask since she knows them. Which isn't that hard given Bams straight up personality. If she didn't she wouldn't have made contact with Jinsung to buy Kaiser. She doesn't give a shit about them, neither does Jinsung (although i am not completly sure regarding him). But they do care about Bam's whishes, as long as they don't get in the way of his survival or growing in power. Like Jinsung said when they first met. They are gonna give him everything he desires ( that's true so far - at least for their FUG faction), all he needs to do is ask. They forced him into FUG, yes. But like Hwa Ryun asked Wangnan - what would you do if you were in their shoes? Letting their (likely) only chance of fulfilling their whish(es) slip?
There's been an update to our forum rules to broaden crediting/sourcing to all series news/announcement, etc. Please read HERE
Oscars Contest 2023 is LIVE! Click HERE for a chance to win your Oscar!
It's back! MH presents a celebration of manga/anime culture; Mangahelpers Awards 2022 is NOW LIVE!
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
