Chapter Tower of God Chapter 447 Spoilers & Discussion

[Orbs2op]

Let me opine that Bam's near future goal is to get strong enough to rescue his master Jinsung, and to accomplish that he will use anything including the Thorns, at least that is his way of thinking. However both Karaka and Evankhell had persuaded him to not rush into something he is currently unfit to do.
His secondary goal is to protect his friends as they climb the tower together.

Basically Bam will need the Thorn because Jahad is gunning for him now, and Jahad will keep sending stronger foes in greater numbers to the point where Bam will be incapable of protecting his friends (something very important to him).

The Thryssas are impressive, but they are only partial administrator powers, NOT complete administrator powers. The Thorn however is the real deal. It is the weapon specifically delivered for the express purpose of defeating the most powerful (and also immortal) person in the Tower, King Jahad. More and more Bam will be needing greater power just to survive.

The Thorn is inevitable as I see it.

I know what bam motivation is what I'm getting at, breaking the restraints against a highranker shouldn't be up to evankhell or his stubbornness just common sense to survive , against regulars and rankers sure that good training material, if he didn't get transformation he would be using the thorns right now, so him saying he needs even more power when he has it just seems silly when it's a promise stopping him from using his full powers.

I get what Siu was doing from the moment doom could give out his powers, the execution is a bit clunky, I'm used to bam instinctively getting familiar to new powers and just fighting then the power rises on its own, this time he just got transformation level 1, after 1 attack he is already asking for more power, the problem is he already got shit tons of powers just chilling, he is backing himself into unnecessary corner just to ass pull higher levels and blue t transformation, the way Siu is writing this bam is still doing the same thing as the train station, winging it with powers he doesn't fully understand but their so powerful he wins anyway.

Red thryssa might be a fragment of admin powers as shown with helljoe, it can dominate high rankers with it abilities on autopilot, so thanks to transformation there no reason it to be sideline, Siu doesn't want to mess with bam character design, the transformation ability give him an out, red and blue t can now be relevant with bam powers that optimize his abilities to his strengths, he should get twice as much powers as helljoe with no draw backs, expect red/blue orb admin shinsu skills and transformation to use their physical attributes that gonna be the combo, if that doesn't end up on the ban list or ends it altogether I'm calling bullshit.

As people have already brought up, there is a high probability that the dog people were results of experiments done by the workshop related to messing around with ignition weapons or things like that. There is a decent chance that the entire ability of manifesting these dog powers is something that was aiming toward what Baam is doing now/about to do, so I wouldn't be that surprised if Baam transforms faster like he's just picked up a glove that was perfectly designed for him all along. I hope that there is more significance behind this ability and its origin and why Baam is getting it as opposed to it just being some random logicless powerup that is never really explained. Hopefully we do get a better explanation for how and why the dog people were created.

That would be an interesting twist especially going by Yama back story they could be experiments, but the way tog is written that wouldn't be something Yama would hide or found out over the years, if the workshop could make another doom, why are the elders or Yama jumping through hoops to control doom? It might be deeper than that.

Transformation it seems similar to ancient powers just at a much lower tier, especially since doom is the source or that thing that floats around, so doom seems the closest imitation to ancient powers, doom said he would give bam a lot of power and bam absorbs more than doom planned, so him running threw the earlier levels now is possible and since transformation isn't a physical change for bam so a full transformation for bam is materializing red Bari completely thus achieving ancient one like powers, this has been hinted at couple of times ever since he got red t and it would just stand behind him.

 

[kkck]

Coward? he's trying to fight HRs without using all his powers... is there another meaning for the word in english that I'm not familiar with?


I just think is a stupid way for SIU to go, using a fake handcap. Yes, I understand the need to him to work on his base and everything else... but to handicap himself in face of danger and yet pull out another powers out of his ass is jus tupid imo

I wonder if there is a chance that evankhel will reprimand bam over this behavior. To an extent the point of bams training is that he gets to a point where he can fight rankers and high rankers, not just kallavan. On the other hand bam is holding back his power even against high rankers. And of course if bam dies THEN his training was pointless. It'll be unreasonable even by evankhels standards that bam is supposed to hold back his powers in situation where every reasonable estimate would put bam at a barely existing chance of surviving. Of course, this all plays out coherently with bams character as a whole considering that back in S1 he jumped at a shineuh while powerless.

 

[Jedikos]

Regard the last word of the elder... " I hope so"... incite that he is waiting yama to be that strong or its just my imagination ¿?

The elder is definitely planning something, perhaps if Yama is that strong to go toe to toe with him, then maybe he wouldn't need the doggo army, he could use his arrow powers to send the cage and Yama forcibly to the upcoming battle grounds, then their now on going fight will be meaningless since there would be an enemy army right in front of them. Yama would have no choice but to protect the cage, which means fighting alongside the Elder, at least until that battle is over...more blackmail, though in the end Elder will still remain an enemy in Yama's opinion. Elder still wins.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 12, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 12, 2019 ---

I wonder if there is a chance that evankhel will reprimand bam over this behavior. To an extent the point of bams training is that he gets to a point where he can fight rankers and high rankers, not just kallavan. On the other hand bam is holding back his power even against high rankers. And of course if bam dies THEN his training was pointless. It'll be unreasonable even by evankhels standards that bam is supposed to hold back his powers in situation where every reasonable estimate would put bam at a barely existing chance of surviving. Of course, this all plays out coherently with bams character as a whole considering that back in S1 he jumped at a shineuh while powerless.

I think it would be great if she would, Baam's stubbornness now is getting annoying, it could be better if we didn't know what he is thinking now and then "I need more power", makes him look naive, and I thought we would be over that after 2 years. Makes it look like we know more about Baam's powers than he himself actually does. Well...
As for Evankhell, she is battling the ancient bull and it seems Doom's power is blocking Baam and Gado's fight from everyone's view, I do not know if High Rankers like Evankhell has some kind of better eyesight or something, but I think everything will cool down and there will be a high ranker beaten bloody in front of a C rank regular with only Gado knowing exactly what happened to him.

 

[paulbee]

Bam is just too stupidly a Goody-Two-Shoes, he so much does not want to disappoint Evankhel, similar to how he kept forgiving Rachel..oh well. Anyhow I'm thinking that the appearance of the Red Bari when Bam did not directly summon it, probably infers greater integration of it into his being. Makes you wonder why the Blue guy is slacking.

Hmm! doesn't Gustang owe Bam a Thorn Fragment?

 

[link to the past]

Yama is easily blackmailed, i think the Elder thinks if he proves to be that strong he could easily find a way to blackmail him and have him cooperate in his fight against Jahad forces. He might think using Doom although Bam will fuck up that plan obviously, or using the cage as an extortion. My personal guess is that all his plans will fail and that he is just overconfident due to his strong belief in fate. Little does he know that Bam and his team fuck up the so called fate of the tower constantly.

Edit: Going back a chapter the Elder was laughing when Evankhell arrived as well saying that it was their destiny to perish by him at the same time. Dude has strong belief in fate making him overconfident that he won't die.

 

[Wha]

Bam is just too stupidly a Goody-Two-Shoes,

So staying true to yourself is a bad thing?

he so much does not want to disappoint Evankhel, similar to how he kept forgiving Rachel

I don't think it's that similar. this time, it seems like he understood that he needs to be stronger in his base and put his trust into his teacher. You can see that when he fights the second doggo high priest and isn't using thorn and stuff, because if he has to use it against someone like him, there is no way to catch up to Kallavan (or something along those lines)

With Rachel, it was (is) different. She taught him how to read, speak, everything he knew before he got into the tower. She was his light in the dark, lonely cave. His only friend / relative. I think it's hard to sever a connection like that - although she had it coming.

Hmm! doesn't Gustang owe Bam a Thorn Fragment?

It's the second thorn fragment, the one from the floor of death. Gustang told him that he would unseal it afterwards, but Bam managed to do so on the hidden floor, when Zahard tried to kill him. He also wasn't the one to bring gustang the bracelet, so the deal might have been off the table anyway.

 

[link to the past]

As far as Rachel goes, when she entered the tower Headon told her of what a bad girl she was at the time. I have a feeling that Rachel might have been the cause that Bam was alone in a cave, since there was no reason whatsoever that she couldn't let him out, or call others to get him out but she didn't. She just kept him there trapped like a dog. For Bam might have been all he knew but in reality she was probably the cause of Bam's troubles since the very beginning. A kid trapped in a cave that "took everything from her" (those were her words to Headon). Doesn't make sense unless she was jealous of Bam from the start making her the no1 suspect for all of Bam's troubles and the reason Headon said of what a bad person she was.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

As far as Rachel goes, when she entered the tower Headon told her of what a bad girl she was at the time. I have a feeling that Rachel might have been the cause that Bam was alone in a cave, since there was no reason whatsoever that she couldn't let him out, or call others to get him out but she didn't. She just kept him there trapped like a dog. For Bam might have been all he knew but in reality she was probably the cause of Bam's troubles since the very beginning. A kid trapped in a cave that "took everything from her" (those were her words to Headon). Doesn't make sense unless she was jealous of Bam from the start making her the no1 suspect for all of Bam's troubles and the reason Headon said of what a bad person she was.

Maybe she gave up her own kid to Arlene's spell to revive Bam. Maybe its her kids' soul in him, in Exchange for a way to entering the Tower and her wishes coming true.

 

[paulbee]

So staying true to yourself is a bad thing?

No, but being unable to properly decipher the situation is bad. It is called Naivety, and it could get you dead. In this case, Bam realizes he needs more power, which he has but doesn't/ is hesitant to use





It's the second thorn fragment, the one from the floor of death. Gustang told him that he would unseal it afterwards, but Bam managed to do so on the hidden floor, when Zahard tried to kill him. He also wasn't the one to bring gustang the bracelet, so the deal might have been off the table anyway.




Rachel didn't get it either, The stingray shinsoo beast Hi-Jacked it from Bam. Bam Did all the work to get the Bracelet, but Gustang had to go and attach the shinsoo stingray to Rachel, it jacked the bracelet. BAam passed Gustang's test, but Gustangs own scheming prevented him from being able to personally deliver the item.

If Bam already has the FOD Thorn fragment I'd love to see where and when he got it. Thanks in advance.


Maybe she gave up her own kid to Arlene's spell to revive Bam. Maybe its her kids' soul in him, in Exchange for a way to entering the Tower and her wishes coming true.
@Jack Van Burace
Okay, the tower is weird, but Rachel looked too young to have had a kid.

 

[TheMoa]

If Bam already has the FOD Thorn fragment I'd love to see where and when he got it. Thanks in advance.

He got It on the FOD.. Gustang Gave It him, but It Was wraped, the Deal Was that Gustang would unwrap It. When older data Z attacked him, It unwraped itself tô Teleport Baam out of DF.
He took It out against GoG tô train and against Kallavan

 

[paulbee]

He got It on the FOD.. Gustang Gave It him, but It Was wraped, the Deal Was that Gustang would unwrap It. When older data Z attacked him, It unwraped itself tô Teleport Baam out of DF.
He took It out against GoG tô train and against Kallavan

Thank you

 

[shaheer]

i just find it ironic that Bam/SIU feels that using thorn is external power while using red bari is just fine.
its just silly to see Bam using red bari while conciously avoiding the use of thorn. So far the impressive fight he had was with the ranker dude. Thats what his capacity is to me.

 

[EternalWinter]

Regarding the Thyrssas, as the cubs of admins, why couldn't they grow into full blown admins

 

[Jedikos]

Regarding the Thyrssas, as the cubs of admins, why couldn't they grow into full blown admins

Could work as long as Baam has enough space in him to accommodate them, however I kinda remember SIU in his blog saying the red thryssa was not a cub, just a piece that is sentient...so that leaves the blue guy.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 12, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 12, 2019 ---

i just find it ironic that Bam/SIU feels that using thorn is external power while using red bari is just fine.
its just silly to see Bam using red bari while conciously avoiding the use of thorn. So far the impressive fight he had was with the ranker dude. Thats what his capacity is to me.

Obvious these winding and I suppose meaningless shackles are just an excuse for the thorns to have the dramatic effect at their right time...if Baam beats Gado without them, and he later uses them, wouldn't it be equivalent to a high ranker using the thorn?

 

[EternalWinter]

Could work as long as Baam has enough space in him to accommodate them, however I kinda remember SIU in his blog saying the red thryssa was not a cub, just a piece that is sentient...so that leaves the blue guy.

Blogs say a lot of things that kinda get retconned. the rest of the admin is dead, I don't see any real reason RT can't keep growing.

Remember in order for the slayers to kill their targets, the FHs need to be mortal. Rather than Baam dealing with each FH on his own, makes more sense for Baam by the time he reached 100th Floor for example to challenge the Admin while White deals with his father

 

[toil]

just find it ironic that Bam/SIU feels that using thorn is external power while using red bari is just fine.

For all we know Evankhell will scold Baam once this is all over, for exactly that reason.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

The first one would be michael's words to aguero... Is he telling us he knew aguero would be there and he was expecting him? That is just some bullshit. How would he plan that? I suppose an enemy guide would explain it but still. It implies at least a fug faction is specifically against him... Or that michael for some reason has a personal grudge against aguero...

Partially agreed, and maybe I'm remember it incorrectly, but I thought Michael's team (Rachel's team?) knew Baam's team would be showing up, and knew they got their first when they landed with the Envoy, so maybe it was planned out. Maybe they latched onto the plan to get the fang/change the leadership just because they caught wind AA would be there. It does seem like a grudge more than anything at this point - which seems silly.

The other one is how strong the elder is. Apparently ancient species are released from within users as if they were pokemon and they get to attack with autonomy. Which is insane.

But we have been seeing that from EVK for a while now...?

Add to that that the elder seems pretty confident he can take yama on in a straight fight even while his taurus is taking on evankhel's flaming donphan. Add to that the elder's excitement.... Why? If his goal is to have yama replaced then nothing about how things are turning out should make him happy. Unless he is excited for a battle? That would seem unusual for someone as powerful and old as him. The alternative would be that he isn't exactly sold on the idea that doom has to replace yama and woud be willing to let yama be if yama proves to be strong enough and willing too cooperate. That said, I would still bet on this being a mistake on khel's part as we are likely past the point where yama would be willing to let khel of the hook under any circumstances. Khel would need to either defeat yama and go away or extort yama somehow.

Khell is obviously not going to be getting his way, though he keeps saying he is. He's delusional at the worst, or confused about the rigidity of so-called fate as he thinks he's seen it play out at best. I do think he's trying to enjoy the fight. He has clearly underestimated Baam and that shows he doesn't know what he's talking about. Extrapolate that to him not having a clue about Yama losing in spite of Yama being unmoved by the fate arrows and 'just starting' his counterattack.

Also, it kinda looks like khel's ancient is much larger than evankhel's. Is it because evankhel is only using a partial release?

It does seem that way. But it's hard to tell how much she released at the final station for an apples to apples comparison. She seems to have released just enough to exactly counter the bull - but this could be because she's hesitant to piss of the admin. If she releases less but is equal, she may be more powerful (or her native) all things considered. Or it may be that the nature release is at a disadvantage... bc fire.

I think it means Headon is pulling the strings behind Rachel's team.

Akryung was also a minion of headon in the floor of test arc, if I'm remembering right.

Akryung's presence in the cage and Michael's confession would appear to confirm it.

Agreed and correct.

i think the elder meant to use doom as leverage against yama,if yama is weaker than him then he ll replace yama and use doom to create an army to save his home if yama is stronger all the better than he'll give controle over doom to yama in return for using his power to help him .

The way he talks he seems pretty adamant about not wanting Yama to lead. I think that ship has sailed and he probably had/has no clue just how strong Yama really is.

Regard the last word of the elder... " I hope so"... incite that he is waiting yama to be that strong or its just my imagination ¿?

It seems he's getting off on a good fight. Somehow he likes Yama struggling. He's insistent that it's impossible for Yama to beat him like it's completely inconceivable (bc 'fate') so he might as well enjoy the fight because the result is a forgone conclusion in his mind. IMO.

Regarding the Thyrssas, as the cubs of admins, why couldn't they grow into full blown admins

It has been hasn't it?








Can we talk about how the elder has what appears like ZERO damage after the spear hit mere minutes prior in real time?

Can we talk about how Paul's thong is showing?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 12, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 12, 2019 ---

For all we know Evankhell will scold Baam once this is all over, for exactly that reason.

"How dare you defend yourself from otherwise lethal attacks from a High Ranker - even while I'm on scene but too preoccupied to even help you from having to do so!"

I still think Baam is already slipping he might as well go a little further and release a thorn or so. She's probably already gonna be mad and drop an elbow on his head. Might as well give her a 'good' reason. She'll probably look over and smirk if she saw it being released.

That said, has she even seen Baam yet? Khun can't see inside the dog-hair-whirlwind but maybe SHE can tell what's going on inside?

 

[toil]

Partially agreed, and maybe I'm remember it incorrectly, but I thought Michael's team (Rachel's team?) knew Baam's team would be showing up, and knew they got their first when they landed with the Envoy, so maybe it was planned out. Maybe they latched onto the plan to get the fang/change the leadership just because they caught wind AA would be there. It does seem like a grudge more than anything at this point - which seems silly.

This feels like a timeskip casualty: there might’ve been a better reason for them to be there that would’ve worked fine with a longer lead-in to the cage arc, but had to get excised to make it work with where SIU started it. Just sayin’.

I still think Baam is already slipping he might as well go a little further and release a thorn or so. She's probably already gonna be mad and drop an elbow on his head. Might as well give her a 'good' reason. She'll probably look over and smirk if she saw it being released.

Well we have multiple precedents already of Baam’s accessories autonomously activating and thus saving him from death: the lobster at the start of S2 and then the second thorn at the end of the hidden floor.

That route remains open here, too, and if anything I’m surprised SIU didn’t go for it again (already).

 

[paulbee]

Bam did not willfully summon the Red Thryssa, so he can't be spanked faulted for disobeying Step-Mom Evankhell. It just means that the sentient Thryssa has managed to integrate itself deeper into Bam's psyche.

 

[Wha]

No, but being unable to properly decipher the situation is bad. It is called Naivety, and it could get you dead. In this case, Bam realizes he needs more power, which he has but doesn't/ is hesitant to use

naive would be to use his powers every time he is in trouble. Because it would be the same thing he did in the past and make his "special training" less effective. Bam is unharmed so far, so no harm in trying on his own. Once he is driven into a corner, he could still decide to use it (or get Evankhells permission).

Rachel didn't get it either, The stingray shinsoo beast Hi-Jacked it from Bam. Bam Did all the work to get the Bracelet, but Gustang had to go and attach the shinsoo stingray to Rachel, it jacked the bracelet. BAam passed Gustang's test, but Gustangs own scheming prevented him from being able to personally deliver the item.

I am not sure why you bring that up, but i don't think it is true. He did not pass the test.
The test wasn't about defeating Data Zahard. It was a hindrance, not the main thing. The main thing was retrieving the bracelett and Bam failed to do so.
In fact, without the stingrays intervention, the bracelet would still be in Zahards hands (or deleted with the rest of the hidden floor). Because when the stingray took it, Bam was already gone / floating away with the second thorn being acitvated - without the bracelett.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 13, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 13, 2019 ---

Yeah but Jinsung also said the older you get the stronger you become

Yes, but that doesn't has got anything to do with having more potential / power because you are older - there are quite a few examples for that, with Bam, Yuri, Adori,......