Is Enryu a ranker though? He's on the ranking system, as is phanta, because of their oustanding one time feats, but both of them didn't climb the Tower.
Ha Chai climbed the Tower but isnt a ranker.
My understanding is that as the Tower "top" is on floor 134, the empire's top that promisses everything someone may want and that started the ranking system, uppon clearing this Last test the regulars are offered an oustanding contract that:
1- give them an almost ageless body
2- give them acess to more shinsoo and weapons use
So the ranking system makes the business decision tô give a rank and sobriquet to people at this moment. As anybody who dont have acess to items 1 and 2 wouldnt be relevant enough tô be on the rankings.
Off course that only applies to Tower born people, irregulars dont need contracts tô have access to shinsoo. So they dont need to climb tô get item 2. Item 1 is tbd (bloodmadder).
In that Sense phanta and Enryu wouldnt be rankers, but are on the ranking system.
BLUE holes climbed the Tower once and got their ranker contracts, they are normal rankers... The difference is that they arent ok the ranking system because they've been gone for só long that the ranking system lose track of them/assume they are dead.
At least that's my understanding from the séries/sius blogposts on this season
The series has more than implied rankers are immortal. Though it is somewhat vague regarding the meaning of this. My inclination would be that given that this is something you can acquire once you finish climbing the tower it is also contract related. Of course, there is a lot of wiggle room so this could turn out to not be the case or even just have a correlation to something else....
Contracts are only issued by guardians as far as we know. Zahard was behind the empire of course but clearly the administrators are going along with him.
If we are talking about rankers then clearly the answer would be floor 134 by administrators when someone becomes a ranker. There are things rankers can acquire later on via contracts (say, wonsuls) but privileges that are shared by all rankers make sense as things they get when they become rankers.
No idea about enryu of course. There was a bit of the lore that made a point, assuming that I am not misremembering this, that climbing the tower itself could increase your lifespan. Presumably due to access to more shinsoo. Irregulars in turn by default have unrestricted access to shinsoo (which even actual rankers might not have) so it's fairly certain that even if enryu isn't an immortal he will last a pretty damn long time. At least, more than that ha regular that trained bam.
My guess would be that being a blue hole and your ranking that the administration office gives you doesn't really have an effect on your overall ranker status. I am also under the impression that since part 3 started ranks mean less and less in general. The tower had been enjoying a period of relative peace and now you have big players making moves to end that. Add to that blue holes, sleeping rankers... The ranks we know are probably not all that significant compared to what ranks would look like in a tower where everyone is active.
"More than implied" is still less than confirmed. Which is what I said. And, you agree. Even by your own admission you think they just age very slowly. That's not the same thing as true immortality at all, though functionally it may appear to be close to the typical tower resident or the reader who sees flash-backs and so on.
Though it is somewhat vague regarding the meaning of this. My inclination would be that given that this is something you can acquire once you finish climbing the tower it is also contract related. Of course, there is a lot of wiggle room so this could turn out to not be the case or even just have a correlation to something else....
Contracts are only issued by guardians as far as we know. Zahard was behind the empire of course but clearly the administrators are going along with him.
I can rent a property (lease) from the owner. Sometimes, I have rights to turn around and sub-lease to yet another individual. (sometimes) I can extend what has been extended to me, legally. There's no reason to believe that the person that set up the ranking system might also have the authority to grant contracts on behalf of the admin - particularly if it's not a full immortality. Or at least maybe have worked out something with the admin, though... why? Or, again, maybe it's something else entirely such as the shinsoo density that increases on each floor has a lasting effect on bodies that can 'bath' in it to the point that, once exposed, they just age increasingly slowly the further up the tower they have ventured (what does this say about creatures living in the top floors...?). Not sure what that means for the Ha guy that refused to rank though - did he refuse to go all the way up though he could have? Did he go to 133 and stop? Did he go to 134 and just deny the contract, if indeed there is a prize contract?
And yet the FH's got their contracts on 100F - and a great deal has been made about that floor and the reward for conquering it. Who knows why there's a difference or if that system has stopped (what was 100 is now 134?). Maybe an admin, or an agent of the admin (Zahard or his officials?) can offer contracts in their purview on any floor. But it's not like 134 is the 'top' of the tower so there's clearly something arbitrary and not magical - some agent is making a deal out of 'topping' the currently known tower and possibly offering contractual rewards. Just like the OG13 got on 100F.
There are things rankers can acquire later on via contracts (say, wonsuls) but privileges that are shared by all rankers make sense as things they get when they become rankers.
No idea about enryu of course. There was a bit of the lore that made a point, assuming that I am not misremembering this, that climbing the tower itself could increase your lifespan.
Presumably due to access to more shinsoo. Irregulars in turn by default have unrestricted access to shinsoo (which even actual rankers might not have) so it's fairly certain that even if enryu isn't an immortal he will last a pretty damn long time. At least, more than that ha regular that trained bam.
And yet the FH's, irregulars, have been shown that they aged. So they may be able to age AND be immortal in an innate sense. But it seems irregulars cannot be already immortal unless getting the immortality contract was redundant. Though, we have seen shinsoo contracts are redundant for irregulars so who knows.
My guess would be that being a blue hole and your ranking that the administration office gives you doesn't really have an effect on your overall ranker status. I am also under the impression that since part 3 started ranks mean less and less in general. The tower had been enjoying a period of relative peace and now you have big players making moves to end that. Add to that blue holes, sleeping rankers... The ranks we know are probably not all that significant compared to what ranks would look like in a tower where everyone is active.
All I was getting at is IF it is Zahard's system that 'rewards' rankers with immortality or pseudo-immortality then perhaps, just maybe, someone that falls out of favor or ranking can lose their benefits. If Zahard or his government can bestow benefits maybe they can rank them. For instance, if I go off the grid I cannot get govt benefits.
I'm just spit-balling in what does or doesn't effect the life-sustaining in regards to ranking. Like, what is the actual mechanism, from whom does it come from, and what are its limits.
My personal best-guess is that rankers are given contracts from Zahard's administration, not the admin. Contracts are shackles we know, so Zahard is out to bind powerful creatures. Could have something to do with control, buying favors, or giving rankers a reason to fall in line - particularly if membership benefits can be yanked (becoming a blue hole? attempting a coup?). Not sure why Zahard would create truly immortal creatures with complete permanence. Anyways, I guess the contract is less immortality but more 'long-life' such as the one Hendo Lok has. Near-immortality. Possibly the benefit (anti-aging) is inversely related to how much potential shinsoo control you could theoretically have. Thus aging is slower the more control over shinsoo you could posses (which would generally correlate to higher rank). Irregulars have a potentially infinite amount of shinsoo control so their aging hits zero, while other super HR's approach but do not reach absolute zero. Other rankers would just age more and more slowly the more powerful they are, like Jinsung. Functionally, from the perspective of regulars or non-ranking tower residents they seem to not age at all. IDK.
Is Enryu a ranker though? He's on the ranking system, as is phanta, because of their oustanding one time feats, but both of them didn't climb the Tower.
Ha Chai climbed the Tower but isnt a ranker.
My understanding is that as the Tower "top" is on floor 134, the empire's top that promisses everything someone may want and that started the ranking system, uppon clearing this Last test the regulars are offered an oustanding contract that:
1- give them an almost ageless body
2- give them acess to more shinsoo and weapons use
So the ranking system makes the business decision tô give a rank and sobriquet to people at this moment. As anybody who dont have acess to items 1 and 2 wouldnt be relevant enough tô be on the rankings.
Off course that only applies to Tower born people, irregulars dont need contracts tô have access to shinsoo. So they dont need to climb tô get item 2. Item 1 is tbd (bloodmadder).
In that Sense phanta and Enryu wouldnt be rankers, but are on the ranking system.
BLUE holes climbed the Tower once and got their ranker contracts, they are normal rankers... The difference is that they arent ok the ranking system because they've been gone for só long that the ranking system lose track of them/assume they are dead.
At least that's my understanding from the séries/sius blogposts on this season
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I answered before seeing your post, I believe is pretty much It.
The thing is Enryuu and blue holes complicate the matter.
Enryuu IS considered a HR, though presumably he did not 'top' the tower (unless off-screened before 43F). It does not appear he did. While he may have received ranker status merely by his huge feat and not physically climbing, does this mean he automatically gets ranker 'benefits'? Are they automatically extended? And if so by whom? Not sure an admin would wish to contract with him....
And, again, I only bring up blue holes because I'm wondering if the benefits are permanent - or can they be revoked? We know they can be denied initially. Can one or the other party void the contract (if I'm ready to die for instance, or if an admin if someone goes missing and doesn't want to 'play the game' anymore and thus becomes a blue hole and therefor rights are revoked). Before you'd argue about Khell's flashback I'd point out he's not the typical tower resident for several obvious reasons. So not sure if he is aging slowly, not at all, or he's just naturally aging without 'ranker benefit' as a long-living elvish kind with a possibly-immortal creature in his body.
The biggest conundrum to me is do rankers age at all, even if only slightly, or are they all immortal? And how is it any different from the FH's immortality if so. Obviously we know much has been said about FH immortality. But only Zahard is also invulnerable. It seems.
That's the other extreme the blog post can be interpreted as. Though as I said, ambiguity is the main feature in these blog posts. I suppose the case remains that bam has yet to actually overcome the skillgap between him and a high ranker even if the skillgap between him and a ranker is not sizeable nowadays.
Bam didn't have this huge disparity between his skill and power back when jinsung trained him. The difference between bam's skill and power became a thing as he progressed through the hell train and his power skyrocketed because of revolution and the powers he acquired. Bam has always been comparatively physically weak but jinsung ultimately never had a chance to address the stuff that resulted from bam's hell train journey.
Siu: Baam can't get a grip because of Gado's strong attacks. Like I said last week, it's already remarkable that a Regular like Baam is able to even survive this long ^^;; Of course, due to various external circumstances Gado can't actually try to kill Baam properly.
It's not extreme at all siu said it's remarkable bam can still hang in there, also like I said gado could have killed bam multiple times and attacked him casually like he was just trying to hurt him and restrained himself, also even with the thorn it not certain, we know how that played out...., going by what was happening I see no real reason for bam to just over power gado, spamming powers doesn't equal winning especially against a HR, when he had the speed advantage and power advantage, re read chapters gado always said he is holding back against bam subconsciously cause he is a regular, Charlie did the same it's how rankers view regulars as nothing and weak, even someone as specials as bam.
again bam is powerful but why leave out key dialogue from the characters to put him over on them? Bam has a lot going for him outside his irregular powers, if he has true ranker level and skill, he would be beat rankers easily like regulars, but his inner thoughts you can tell he is giving it his all, and wanted to use the thorn plenty of times but resisted out of stubbornness, almost died for it, imo bam progress is consistent as where it should be going by what's being said and shown, not random power scaling guessing if bam thinks he is in trouble then he will say it, if he thinks he can win no prob he will say it, that how dialogue is written in tog no need to guess cause the characters tell you straight up.
Bam skills always seemed more reliant on talent and his copying skills abilities, if you have flarewave and 2 or 3 times more bangs than average, from floor 3 upward he will always have a huge advantage and seem extremely skilled compared to the average regular, not saying he isn't skilled he was trained by some of the best, after the thorn it became even easier to overwhelm opponents will power and speed, but when you look at data z and eduan the skill gap was massive even with the assistance of 2 admin fragments, thorn, and godly devouring power, cause they had to develop and master their abilities from day one, no quick fix copying high-end moves, that why bam learning original skills and fundamentals is big deal, cause it will make his mastery of his powers easier and instantly boost the power of any new skills he learns, I also feel jinsung wanted to address it,he seemed to be waiting for bam to reach a much higher floor.
I am pretty sure It was Said either at First chapters or by SIU that expertise in Shinsoo use can both strengthen One's body and deter its aging. Ha Chai might have not used Shinsoo in his body purposefully, as well as not submitting to final floor's test which grants you ranker status.
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