Chapter Tower of God Chapter 494 Spoilers & Discussion

[Consul N]

SIU already said in a blog post Baam will consolidate his powers.

 

[Demonspeed]

SIU already said in a blog post Baam will consolidate his powers.

Sure, but I don't think it'll be in in this arc. Probably not even the next one.

 

[Wha]

He still wanted to fight Urek, him not doing it is another matter but thinking that the outcome against Urek's 1% finger would be different makes him a clown even moreso when Urek stated the % of power he was using.

Depends. Do you think that data maschenny was a clown for challenging Data Z? She knew that she was inferior, yet she wanted to try. Does this make her a clown? I think she is a battle maniac, not a clown.

I do see Hoaqin as a tragic character. It's not mentioned as much because he is not as open about it, but A.A also wants to defeat his father. I think it's natural for some of their descendants to have that desire.

As for Baam, I don't like how he gets power ups he hasn't learned to use either but SIU stated in a blog post that when he created him that's the kind of ability he gave him IIRC so it'll keep happening. The Black Shinsoo and stuff only happen when he is using the Thorn to a certain level and he does use Blue Oar as wings casually now.

I think one thing people forget about Baam is that he has "levels". With the Thorn and now Mimesis he can get much stronger than in base. People like Zahard, Urek don't power up that way. It's the same thing as Ran who uses Redan most of the time now.

As for the Regulars power ups. I don't see the issue. It's always been like this in TOG. Training isn't shown much, we mostly see them with new equipment or skills they learned offscreen and they all need to learn to master it, it applies to Baam himself who got Thorn fragments. People also seem to forget that the S1 Regulars aren't supposed to be Average Joes either, their growth is incredibly slow compared to Baam but as they climb they develop their own abilities too. At least Donghae didn't appear out of nowhere in this arc. When SIU wanted a write "average" team, he made Sweet and Sour.

A.A's Firefish ability has its risks and he got it after nearly dying, Hatsu's swing with Donghae exhausted him too. They obviously have plot armor but I don't find that what they did is so outlandish. They are playing support in this war. Hatsu got to do something(find it underwhelming as well), but he and Leesoo are protected by Cha, a very agreeable Ranker, it's another layer of plot armor. As far as we know, Hatsu hasn't discovered his Attributes yet, but he has always been more of a weapon master, his Attribute would have not helped in this situation I am sure. It's not like they are beating up Rankers in a straight battle.

There will definitely be more arcs focused more on Regulars (Rachel's team, the Lo Po Bia Twins working with Maschenny) etc. So far, I think SIU is doing a decent job.

Good point.

Like i said, i am not against him devouring stuff. Devouring the thryssa on the floor of death was ok for me. It's about the timing, the way it happens. And him devouring everything sounds like an excuse made by Siu (for me), because he didn't devour the fenrir ability, but metamorphosis (just one example).
He did use the blackish shinsoo against Rachel's lover (forgot her name, the blue haired Ha girl) and i don't think that he used his buffs there (not sure anymore). Yes, he uses the wings, but only to fly, which feels weird if you think about edhuan und Data Z flying around without those. If the wings are used for more than lfying around, it's another story. He did in the Data Z fight. never again.

I agree, but that is not the problem for me. the problem starts if he is supposed to go all out against Kallavan and fails to remember that the black march could be useful (just one example).

The problem for me is that it feels unreal. Let's take the sword as an example. If we had known before (the mind control part), it would have been a different story for me. But so it feels like bad writing.
I don't think that they should be useless. I don't think they are. I have a friend that sits in a wheel chair. If i have a problem regarding my computer, he knows what to do (and many other things). If Mike tyson comes to punch me in the face, he can't really help me in the situation (most likely even without the wheel chair, but that's not the point hehe).
It's a battle between Rankers and High rankers. Doing things like they did with the red crystals for the White resurrection is useful. they can do it, it's plausible. Infiltrating something under the guidance of hwa or Hockney? Completely believable. Hatsu facing a mind control guy and now we get the information that his sword can counter that very ability? I don't know....
If we knew about the sword at the cage, it would have been different for me. Like he knows that he could free the houndborns from Doom /Khel, but is too weak / nearly dies trying. Then he tries again and succeeds. Would have felt much better for me.


Haha, true, although with horyang und Yihwa (where are you?) they aren't that average anymore.

I think Siu did a great job at the beginning. It got weaker, it got stronger again. Right now, some of the things just feel...i don't know..... forced? But i do not give up hope haha.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 10, 2021, Original Post Date: Jun 10, 2021 ---

SIU already said in a blog post Baam will consolidate his powers.

So what was the point letting Bam go threw Revolution? Two times at that. The white line? Evankhell training him to make the powers more stable, working on his base? It feels like all of it was for nothing, because the problem stays the same.
If i think about it, the Zero thing from the Ha regular expert felt kinda similar.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 10, 2021 ---

After reading the Fan translation of the latest chapter, I am slightly confused about White's real intentions. I always thought it was to eat Baam's soul. However, in the latest translation, it almost appears that he wants to corrupt it. "His Majesty wants to see you wear this same crown, thirsty for power... His Majesty wants to see you gain great power and then corrupt you". This would seem not possible if White plans on killing Baam now. It is almost like White is a voyer and gets aroused by Baam.

I think that it probably has something to do with the "taste" of Bam's soul. His behaviour fits what we know about him. The two kingdoms, being a saviour to both of them and then make them kill each other and devour them. Strong emotions.

 

[hblock]

Chapter read.

Regarding Hatsu, everything feels like "forced" or should I say bad writing ? Certainly, Donghae was introduced since the name hunt station and we didn't knew how he got hold of it. Now, we've got a plausible explenation to how. Purely retionally speaking, it not something far-fetched, Urek wants Baam's friends to stick to the latter as hard and as long as they can. Giving them a gift which would help achieve this much; out of friendship to Baam (instead of a buddy HR) fits his personality and actions so far. Wolhaiksong is a buddy-organization after all (at least Gustang described it as such).

What's really bothered me is rather the convenience aspect, the DivCom has a mental ability allowing him to charm people and guess what ? It just happens that Donghae is immune to the said charm and can dispel it. Also, it just happens that despite the insane power it holds, Donghae is a weak-pure folks lover that killed many Rankers formerly due to their greed and only regulars like Hatsu can use. Overall, I can't help but have this impression that SIU just wants to make Baam's friends shine whatever the way, so he create this ideal -forced- scenario just for Hatsu. More broadly, it alteady doesn't make sens for regulars to participate in a game filled with HRs and super HRs to begin with. Well, maybe, Khun, Shibisu, Hwaryun and hockney to a certain extent, due to their super intelligence/useful non-fighting abilities, but Hatsu/Rak/Elaine is just really pushing it. Rankers or HRs being there instead would've been far more profitable overall and it's not like FUG decided that Hatsu would participate 'cause he has "some useful sword which counters a certain HR's weird ability of charming". I mean, they didn't even knew what this sword was about, Cha only noticed its ability after seeing that Hatsu is the only Ranker or below individual who didn't fell to Kendrik's trick.

That being said, despite the forced plot, Hatsu's feat is still legit and consistent with what he showed and what was portrayed so far. Having anti-charm abilities doesn't mean he comes close to the weakest Ranker in existence in 1v1 fights, nor that a 100 Hatsus with Donghae would've valued to shit in front of a Ranker/HR if they were on their own. The real MVP is none other than Cha, Hatsu or not, Diel was doomed regardless and Hatsu only helped reducing the casualities. I really don't get what people are complaining about, regulars are certainly not worth it on their own powerwise but it wasn't said anywhere that they can't be of help at all. Especially in cases like this one, when the provided help has nothing to do with martial skill or raw power.

About Baam's party talent and potential. Let's be real, based on the hidden floor arc, everyone including Endorsi, valued to shit compared to just Asencio already, let alone Maschenny and based on her showings as a HRs so far, CCs like Kallavan, Yas', Lyborick, etc, don't seem to be really weaker than Mas' if not at all. At worst, they're comparable to her to some extent and can push her to use her full power. Furtheremore, unlike Yuri, Mas' lived for a fair amount of time, at least several millenna if the old/obsolete character profiles still hold true (she particiapted in the Enne incident according to these), which means that she already reached a great part of her potential already.

Well, I admit that it "might" be possible to do some workarrounds with Rak and AA (just them). The ice spear was really powerful after all even in the hidden floor standards, so it's not difficult to imagine AA having more potentiality than Asencio or Icardi. Especially when it was still a new skill and new abilities tend to be improved very quickly, the time to adapt to it.
However, it's also obvious that for AA to become relevant at this point (as a fighter I mean), Baam's growth has to stop and Khun has to grow for at least several millenna and despite all his talent, it'd be far fetched to assume that he'd become a CC tier fighter in a traditional way. Talented as he's, he isn't Yuri or Mas' and becoming this powerful in a several millenna range means that he's arround these two princesses in terms of potential, which is already pushing it. I mean Kall', is like 3000+, and he's considered hella young by someone like Jinsung.

In Rak's case, based on "the native one" thing which was introduced in the hidden floor. Making him more relevant at some point would be far more easier, SIU just has to find some way to lift this "power seal" or whatever after all, and Edahn already said that the native ones were "super powerful", so there's that. The issue is that AA has to keep up as well (as a fighter), but there is literally no rational/non-asspulled way to make him this strong so fast.

I'd also add Yihwa to the group of exceptions, because her (uncontrolled) flames could make Rankers struggle even before she became a regular and it was said in a blogpost that she'd put Khun Ran to shame once she masters her power.

Overall, even if SIU makes Rak&AA very powerful, but still cannon fodder material to FH tier combattants obviously, there's no way that the rest of the buddies (bar Yihwa maybe) would grow to be nearly as strong, even if they live as long as Rankers from genesis.
SIU has to make a choice, either restrict Baam's friends to just Khun and Rak (and Hockney as a non-fighter) from the next arc onwards, which is for the best in terms of the work's consistency and rationnality. 'cause even keeping Khun&Rak would be insanely difficult at this point.
Either he'd start distributing free massive amounts of asspulls-PUs to everyone just to make them relevant to the plot with one way or another, which is bad, and feels like forced as in the current chapter.

I see some people even complaining about Hansung defeating a DivCom. I mean, the dude was introduced as a HR level individual since the beginning :
-According to Lopobia Ren, if he joined Jahad or one of the 10 GFs, he'd have become a HR.
-According to SIU, if he wasn't toying arround in the floor of tests, he'd ve been a HR with a rank that's similar to Yuri's.
-According to SIU again, Hansung represents the standard power of a HR.
Hansung was always as strong as a HR since the beginning of the manhwa, nothing new really.

If we do the opposite, assuming we strip a DivCom from his DivCom position and reduce him to a test director. Would the said DivCom remains a HR ? At least, we know that answering this question is far from obvious.
If Hansung was recruited as a DivCom however, it's 100% sure that he'd become a HR. Ranks aren't only about power, job titles, influence and many other factors have a great impact as well.

I also noticed some very strong subjective headcanon glue roaming arround. I mean yes, certainly Cheonhee showed higher DC than Hansung in the last station arc, Hansung certainly lacks the potentcy to block her fan's attacks with shinsu and he'd die if he tries to match it headon but this isn't DBZ. Fights =/= DC, having higher DC is meaningless if you can't tag your opponents. Otherwise, how would you explain Hansung surviving for a while against Cheonhee, almost the whole duration of the 1st wall battle. Yes, he was supported by two Rankers, but as we know Rankers are just what they're, far beneath HRs and their support isn't worth much really.

Also, why would the DivComs be dead equals ? I mean, all of them are comparable and belong to the same tier more or less, this much is obvious but why is it far fetched to assume that some of them aren't a solid cut or two stronger than the others. We've even got some explicit examples, Lyborick for instance said that the new 4th corps DivComs are stronger than the former one DivComs and Hartcha implied that his division is way stronger than Fucile's.
Based on these facts, why would Cheonhee and Haratcha be dead equals ? Isn't that nothing more than a personal headcanon ?

About the Haratcha vs Hansung fight itself. It's worth mentionning that Hansung had a location advantage, his plan would've been impossible to achieve without the powerful acid in his surroundings. He'd have died as well if not for the game rules allowing one to teleport once a mouse is found and tagged. Basically, Hansung only won and "barely" won (the shinsu sphere protecting the mouse was about to be melted according to him) because of the location and game rules advantage. In terms of overall power however, it's hard to assess who is stronger than who, matchups matter as well and I don't know if Hansung could've defeated Haratcha under neutral conditions (no acid and no game rules).

Similarly, why would people assume that the altar director isn't HR tier ? Isn't it just another case of an oughtright, explicit and subjective headcanon ? I mean, we don't even know whether Stuah Arthur is a Ranker, AR or HR to being with, the dude was introduced as the altar director and just that. Not to mention that he was painting when Hansung stole his lighthouse, implying that the latter at least had a slight upper hand in their fight. We also know that lightbearers tend to have very sturdy defense (thanks to their lighthouse barriers) and specialize in this aspect alone, all what the vice altar did was blocking and stalling Hansung, he couldn't put him under pressure even once. Fights are also about matchups after all.

 

[Wha]

I see some people even complaining about Hansung defeating a DivCom. I mean, the dude was introduced as a HR level individual since the beginning

HR doesn't mean HR. Yuri is a HR. Cheonhee as well. When Yuri got serious, it was completely one sided. Like with Hansung and cheonhee. There was no situation where i thought that he could defeat her. I think she blocked him while looking into another direction....so the power difference felt huge.
He couldn't even handle the Frog dude properly (without his Frog). Now he defeats someone that should be around Cheonhee level? And i go by their rank, not that they all are Hr. I also think that Yas, Kallavan and Liboric are similar in terms of power - one being stronger is a given, but they should be in a certain league.

 

[hblock]

There was no situation where i thought that he could defeat her. I think she blocked him while looking into another direction....so the power difference felt huge.

I'm pretty aware that there're a shitload of tiers among the HRs but DivComs were constantly portrayed as average HRs at best.
About Cheonhee, what's more important is that Hansung managed to fight her for a while (with little help) without getting injured. Not saying that Hansung = Cheonhee, but he's at least <= to her.
Which means that Cheonhee couldn't land her highly destructive attacks on Hansung during all this time.

He couldn't even handle the Frog dude properly (without his Frog).

Actually, they never fought. Hansung used a shinsu attack just to get past him and he easily succeeded. Also, we rarely see someone starting with his best skills/attacking potency right of the bat.

 

[Consul N]

Sure, but I don't think it'll be in in this arc. Probably not even the next one.

I think it will happen sooner than we think. Probably where all this soul nonsense is leading too.

 

[Wha]

I'm pretty aware that there're a shitload of tiers among the HRs but DivComs were constantly portrayed as average HRs at best.
About Cheonhee, what's more important is that Hansung managed to fight her for a while (with little help) without getting injured. Not saying that Hansung = Cheonhee, but he's at least <= to her.
Which means that Cheonhee couldn't land her highly destructive attacks on Hansung during all this time.

So you think it is the same to fight someone with the intention of winning or to fight someone with the intention of stalling time? In a place where there is no escape? He can just run away, while the rankers fire everything they got. When she turns to the rankers, they can try to run and he attacks. Just one possibility.
Just look at the station. He attacked, it did nothing. He blocked her attack to save the regulars. When she made one more serious attack, he thought that he would die.

Actually, they never fought. Hansung used a shinsu attack just to get past him and he easily succeeded. Also, we rarely see someone starting with his best skills/attacking potency right of the bat.

Her being able to block his attack without the frog and without being injured (from the looks of it) isn't speaking in Hansungs favour.
Could he defeat the frog dude? i think so, yes. But not without some effort. Because if he could, he should (in a situation like that) while walking by. Since he is portrait as the clever guy, i think he just couldn't do it.

 

[hblock]

So you think it is the same to fight someone with the intention of winning or to fight someone with the intention of stalling time? In a place where there is no escape? He can just run away, while the rankers fire everything they got. When she turns to the rankers, they can try to run and he attacks. Just one possibility.
Just look at the station. He attacked, it did nothing. He blocked her attack to save the regulars. When she made one more serious attack, he thought that he would die.

Rankers don't value to much in front of DivComs, even strong ones.
For example, base Paul fodderized Culden, an advanced Ranker, without using his strongest abilities and the gap was so huge that Culden couldn't believe how powerful Paul was.
Yet, based on his interactions with Karaka and Hasatcha (a DivCom under Yas's rule), base Paul doesn't seem to be above the DivCom paygrade.
Based on these facts, it's pretty obvious that Gromm and Death Bird only had a minimal impact on the fight. The MVP was none other than Hansung himself.

While stalling =/= fighting directly, stalling still requires some comparability. If Hansung wasn't fast enough, it would've been impossible for him to dodge Cheonhee's attacks, we know at least this much and it's not Gromm or Death Bird who would've changed anything about the outcome.

The context in the station isn't exactly the same, Hansung was fighting under the pressure of protecting hostages. He "had" to take the hit and die to save the regulars behind him. That's not the same as a fair 1v1 fight.
All in all, we know that Cheonhee has "way" more DC than him but Hansung is also far smarter and his raw stats clearly allow him to compete to a certain extent.

Furtheremore, as I said in my previous post :
-DivComs aren't necessarily dead equals.
-Hansung only beat Haratcha with difficulty (he was injured and the sphere protecting the mouse was almost melted) because of the location (powerful acid nearby) and game rules.

Her being able to block his attack without the frog and without being injured (from the looks of it) isn't speaking in Hansungs favour.

20F Baam could exchange blows and take hits from Ranker Love, Sharon could exchange blade swings with Evankhell, she even broke her handle at some point, Yoryo could stop White's swords, etc, etc, etc. We're not lacking examples when it comes to weak dudes "easily" countering/surviving against massively stronger foes who can one shot them whenever they want.
The thing is that almost no one uses his max potency/best skills right of the bat and it's certainly not a single exchange which isn't even in the context of a headon 1v1 fight that woud allow us to assess the difference between Hansung and Dorian.

 

[O_n_Sly]

I'm pretty aware that there're a shitload of tiers among the HRs but DivComs were constantly portrayed as average HRs at best.
About Cheonhee, what's more important is that Hansung managed to fight her for a while (with little help) without getting injured. Not saying that Hansung = Cheonhee, but he's at least <= to her.
Which means that Cheonhee couldn't land her highly destructive attacks on Hansung during all this time.

Lol you're joking right. YHS was absolutely useless before Cheonhee and was ready to die if not for receiving help Yuri. Stop with the bullshit dude is no where near Yuri.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 10, 2021, Original Post Date: Jun 10, 2021 ---

Matter of fact YHS 'the genius' needed Karaka's minions to face Cheonhee inside Karaka's dimension. And even then he admitted he could possibly die. Soo please enough with the excuse making

 

[hblock]

Stop with the bullshit dude is no where near Yuri.

I just want to address this 'cause you're distorting what I said. Actually, I never implied that Hansung is arround Yuri's level.
You can go ahead with your headcanon though.

 

[O_n_Sly]

Yuri>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cheonhee>>>>>>>>YHS

 

[Wha]

Rankers don't value to much in front of DivComs, even strong ones.
For example, base Paul fodderized Culden, an advanced Ranker, without using his strongest abilities and the gap was so huge that Culden couldn't believe how powerful Paul was.
Yet, based on his interactions with Karaka and Hasatcha (a DivCom under Yas's rule), base Paul doesn't seem to be above the DivCom paygrade.
Based on these facts, it's pretty obvious that Gromm and Death Bird only had a minimal impact on the fight. The MVP was none other than Hansung himself.

While stalling =/= fighting directly, stalling still requires some comparability. If Hansung wasn't fast enough, it would've been impossible for him to dodge Cheonhee's attacks, we know at least this much and it's not Gromm or Death Bird who would've changed anything about the outcome.

The context in the station isn't exactly the same, Hansung was fighting under the pressure of protecting hostages. He "had" to take the hit and die to save the regulars behind him. That's not the same as a fair 1v1 fight.
All in all, we know that Cheonhee has "way" more DC than him but Hansung is also far smarter and his raw stats clearly allow him to compete to a certain extent.

Furtheremore, as I said in my previous post :
-DivComs aren't necessarily dead equals.
-Hansung only beat Haratcha with difficulty (he was injured and the sphere protecting the mouse was almost melted) because of the location (powerful acid nearby) and game rules.

I don't know about Division Commanders, but i do know that the one minion of Karaka fought with the Frog Dude (vice division commander / High Ranker) without being destroyed. Frog dude was introduced as a HR, officially. So either the one minion was a high Ranker as well, or we witnessed a Ranker (maybe advanced?) facing of with a High Ranker without being stomped into the ground.

So let me get this straight. We currently have two encounters between Hansung und Cheonhee. One happened before our very eyes, the other happened off screen. The only thing we do know about the latter is that both seemed unharmed when they reemerged. There could have happened anything, they could have drunken a cup of coffee for all we know.....yet you value that one more than the one where Hansung thought he would die (and it wasn't even her strongest attack, if you look at the Yuri/cheonhee encounter)? And he attacked her from behind for gods sake (and it did nothing).

So from what we do know, he was weaker in his offense (couldn't hurt her) and weaker in his defense (almost died). Yeah,he took it head on, but so did she (without turning around).

"While stalling =/= fighting directly, stalling still requires some comparability."
So you think that White, when he stalled Kallavan on the wall, was somehow comparable? And White fought indoors, the space was limited, while the dimension seemed like a wide and open space.

The thing is that almost no one uses his max potency/best skills right of the bat

that is very true. But that's kinda my point. When Evankhell was warming up and that blue haired idiot attacked her from behind, she just one shoted him, without any effort. Yet the fight was longer with sharon, although she also was way weaker. But she could at least do something (against a not really serious Evankhell).
Now look at the fight between Hansung and Cheonhee. Does it remind you more of the Evankhell / Sharon duel, or the Evankhell / blue hair dude? Just one sided,if you ask me.

 

[O_n_Sly]

Yas' divCo's so far are severely flawed. No problem with Cha defeating Kendrick but was Kendrick even worthy enough to be a divCo? I question if Haratcha deserved to be one too, with how weak his attacks become in FT. He must of been fighting some really weak opponents lol, possibly staging more than actually fighting!!!

 

[Will19]

Yas' divCo's so far are severely flawed. No problem with Cha defeating Kendrick but was Kendrick even worthy enough to be a divCo? I question if Haratcha deserved to be one too, with how weak his attacks become in FT. He must of been fighting some really weak opponents lol, possibly staging more than actually fighting!!!

tbh every divco would get stomped by Cha, Haratcha however was a dumbass, why even go FT knowing the risks when you are not even losing? not only was he unimpressive powerwise, he was also brainless.

 

[hblock]

but i do know that the one minion of Karaka fought with the Frog Dude

Frog couldn't use the ancient frog back then since it was injured.
Also Frog fending off a single attack from Hansung doesn't mean he comes close to the latter.

.yet you value that one more than the one where Hansung thought he would die

Which I addressed in my previous post :

The context in the station isn't exactly the same, Hansung was fighting under the pressure of protecting hostages. He "had" to take the hit and die to save the regulars behind him. That's not the same as a fair 1v1 fight.
All in all, we know that Cheonhee has "way" more DC than him but Hansung is also far smarter and his raw stats clearly allow him to compete to a certain extent.

So you think that White, when he stalled Kallavan on the wall, was somehow comparable? And White fought indoors, the space was limited, while the dimension seemed like a wide and open space.

I was refering to stalling someone who "uses his full power", so it's not the same. In Kallavan's case, he didn't even use shinsu strengthening against White initially, that's how serious he was.
Cheonhee in comparison was pissed, unleashed both the shining fan and Sylpheed right of the bat and tried her best for an extended amount of time, yet she couldn't even inflict a wound to Hansung.

that is very true. But that's kinda my point. When Evankhell was warming up and that blue haired idiot attacked her from behind, she just one shoted him, without any effort. Yet the fight was longer with sharon, although she also was way weaker. But she could at least do something (against a not really serious Evankhell).

Using this logic, it's very easy to imagine any character fodderizing any foe as long as he isn't shown in difficulty. White for istance wasn't shown being pressured by Kallavan during their fight, therefore if someone said that White stand on a whole another level, it should still make sens from your point of view.
I'll also add that If we restrict Evankhell solely to her showings against Sharon (before the ancient partial release) and nothing else, it'd be plausible to assume that she and Sharon are roughtly arround the same level. However, due to many other feats and overall portrayal, we know that she stands on a whole another level and was barely using her strength initially.

Unlike Evankhell, Cheonhee doesn't have nearly as much feats or hype, she's caped by her status, DivCom means she's nothing more than an average HR and she's also caped by all other DivComs laughable showings against upper echelon HRs. Especially the new 4th corps DivCom who were portrayed to be stronger than her.
If she wasn't a DivCom, didn't fail to put a scratch on Karaka/Hansung despite being pissed (implying that she used her full power against both), it would've been possible to speculate that she's far stronger than Hansung but that's not the case.

 

[Wha]

Frog couldn't use the ancient frog back then since it was injured.
Also Frog fending off a single attack from Hansung doesn't mean he comes close to the latter.

No, he could not. Do we know if he still had HR power? No.
No, it doesn't- But it also wasn't a Evankhell - blue hair guy punishment.

Which I addressed in my previous post :

In this context, i don't think that it really matters why he took the attack. He blocked the first, the second (not her strongest) was too much. He attacked her once, from an advantegous position and failed miserably. So statwise, he should be way lower than her. How do you suggest he wins? Because he is smart? That should close such a big gap? I can't buy that.
Again, he attacked her from behind. And why should he hold back if he has the chance to kill her? Instead, he lets that chance slide because he felt like testing the waters first? And right after that, he is about to sacrifice his life? Doesn't make much sense to me.

What I meant is stalling someone who uses his full power, so it's not the same. In Kallavan's case, he didn't even use shinsu strengthening against White initially, that's how serious he was.
Cheonhee in comparison was pissed, unleashed both the shining fan and Sylpheed right of the bat and tried for an extended amount of time, yet she couldn't even inflict a wound to Hansung.

Again, you take one picture and speculate what was going on in a whole fight, whereas you have a fight you don't need to speculate on, you saw what happened.
I could also say that Hansung pulled a Hansung and started to negotiate while running away. Karakas underlings and Hansung managed to distract her and he pulled an Enna Core on her. Than she screamed her lunges out and he and the rankers drank some coffee.


And until we see the corpses of Karakas Underlings, it's not proven they were that useless. Or unharmed as well. We just don't know.

Using this logic, it's very easy to imagine any character fodderizing any foe. For example, White wasn't shown being pressured by Kallavan during their fight, based on this reasonning, if someone said that White stand on a whole another level, it'd still make sens from your point of view.
I'll also add that If we restrict Evankhell solely to her showing against Sharon and nothing else, it'd be plausible to assume that she and Sharon are roughtly arround the same level. However, due to many other feats and overall portrayal, we know that she stands on a whole another level and was barely using her strength initially.
Unlike Evankhell, Cheonhee doesn't have such a feats or hype, she's caped by her status, DivCom means she's nothing more than an average HR and she's also caped by all other DivComs low feats. Especially the new 4th corps DivCom who were portrayed to be stronger than her.
If she wasn't a DivCom, didn't fail to put a scratch on Karaka/Hansung despite being pissed (implying that she used her full power against both), it would've been possible to speculate that she's far stronger than Hansung but that's not the case. Thinking othewise would lead to many contradictions as well.

Regarding White and the whole level - I couldn't rule it out right now, yes.
Since it looks to be like stronger souls=stronger power, Kallavan should be quite the meal for White and we know how he likes it to have a good meal. But he didn't, which either means that he just wanted to have fun or that he couldn't at all, or right now, or that he wanted Bam to be stuffed with Kallavan and then eat him or.....but isn't that logical? If the Sharon fight with Evankhell would have been interrupted when Evankhells sword shattered, how should we know that Evankhell is so much stronger? You can guess based on the information you have, but how can you be certain?
And i disagree, Evankhell showed her who's boss, since the blue freezer second in command man and her could barely stop her, or her flames for that matter.
So the whole fight alone is enough to see who is (way) stronger.


When Leero fought the Madorako Ranker (rest in peace) during the workshop battle, the FUG Ranker was really pissed. Leero thought that he would die if he confronts him direclty, if i remember correctly. That isn't exactly the kind of confidence you should have if you are around the same level. Yet he managed to avoid him and stall him at the same time.

 

[Consul N]

Depends. Do you think that data maschenny was a clown for challenging Data Z? She knew that she was inferior, yet she wanted to try. Does this make her a clown? I think she is a battle maniac, not a clown.





Good point.

Like i said, i am not against him devouring stuff. Devouring the thryssa on the floor of death was ok for me. It's about the timing, the way it happens. And him devouring everything sounds like an excuse made by Siu (for me), because he didn't devour the fenrir ability, but metamorphosis (just one example).
He did use the blackish shinsoo against Rachel's lover (forgot her name, the blue haired Ha girl) and i don't think that he used his buffs there (not sure anymore). Yes, he uses the wings, but only to fly, which feels weird if you think about edhuan und Data Z flying around without those. If the wings are used for more than lfying around, it's another story. He did in the Data Z fight. never again.

I agree, but that is not the problem for me. the problem starts if he is supposed to go all out against Kallavan and fails to remember that the black march could be useful (just one example).

The problem for me is that it feels unreal. Let's take the sword as an example. If we had known before (the mind control part), it would have been a different story for me. But so it feels like bad writing.
I don't think that they should be useless. I don't think they are. I have a friend that sits in a wheel chair. If i have a problem regarding my computer, he knows what to do (and many other things). If Mike tyson comes to punch me in the face, he can't really help me in the situation (most likely even without the wheel chair, but that's not the point hehe).
It's a battle between Rankers and High rankers. Doing things like they did with the red crystals for the White resurrection is useful. they can do it, it's plausible. Infiltrating something under the guidance of hwa or Hockney? Completely believable. Hatsu facing a mind control guy and now we get the information that his sword can counter that very ability? I don't know....
If we knew about the sword at the cage, it would have been different for me. Like he knows that he could free the houndborns from Doom /Khel, but is too weak / nearly dies trying. Then he tries again and succeeds. Would have felt much better for me.


Haha, true, although with horyang und Yihwa (where are you?) they aren't that average anymore.

I think Siu did a great job at the beginning. It got weaker, it got stronger again. Right now, some of the things just feel...i don't know..... forced? But i do not give up hope haha.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 10, 2021, Original Post Date: Jun 10, 2021 ---

So what was the point letting Bam go threw Revolution? Two times at that. The white line? Evankhell training him to make the powers more stable, working on his base? It feels like all of it was for nothing, because the problem stays the same.
If i think about it, the Zero thing from the Ha regular expert felt kinda similar.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 10, 2021 ---

I think that it probably has something to do with the "taste" of Bam's soul. His behaviour fits what we know about him. The two kingdoms, being a saviour to both of them and then make them kill each other and devour them. Strong emotions.

Baam didn't go through revolution two times. He went through it in steps with the god of guardians and was finally able to complete the process with Eduan. As to why SIU choose go about Baam powerset the way he has is beyond me lol. Hopefully he fixes it this arc and Baam can finally focus on the thorn.

 

[Xeroxed]

Again, you take one picture and speculate what was going on in a whole fight, whereas you have a fight you don't need to speculate on, you saw what happened.
I could also say that Hansung pulled a Hansung and started to negotiate while running away. Karakas underlings and Hansung managed to distract her and he pulled an Enna Core on her. Than she screamed her lunges out and he and the rankers drank some coffee.

I like to think that the High Ranker Poken was also in Karakas heart and helped YHS. I have no proof of this, but we have not seen or heard from Poken since early season 2 and he should be somewhere. Otherwise YHS agreeing to fight Cheonhee would be ridiculous. He is not stupid enough to pick such a one sided fight.

 

[sazon]

I don't know why you guys still keep hitting that key. YHS and DC are HR at least around the top 500, they are not the top 300 monsters, but they are still elite HR, just deal with it. Damn, HR are 1% of the tower ranks, they're neither a finger of an FH nor can they even think about hitting the top 300, but they're still strong. Oh, and some guys here can spend the whole week freaking out and taking hints that doesn't change the fact that YHS is a genius, that it has already reached the strength of a top 500, being a ranker for less than 1000 years.