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Politics US Election 2016

Discussion in 'General World Topics' started by SharkBait, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. shionoro

    shionoro Mangahelper

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    No. I mean that Trump knew that those peopel comitted treason and lied about it.
    The evidence is already submitted by sources from the whitehouse, there is nothing radical about that.
    It is proven that trump lied about not knowing about flynn's talks with russia.

    And no, i am not a person who believes in frauds just because youtube people do it, sorry.
     
  2. POW

    POW Registered User

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    The points you don't pick up are not obvious and wont be advertised in the corporate media channels. As long as you continue to eat what they feed you, you will never get close to the truth. Trying to pretend Wikileaks which has a proven track record of being a political tool just because you are in denial that Hillary & the DNC are incapable of doing anything wrong is foolish.
    Just because the Republicans are horrible and you hate Trump doesn't automatically mean every big name Democrat is an honorable servant of the people. Corruption exists in both parties and ignoring the corruption in the DNC while yelling at Trump will not improve anything. Trump only got to where he is because the establishment leadership of the DNC was so incompetent, complacent and out touch with the people that they cant even communicate with blue collar workers and young people anymore. Probably cause many of them are millionaires too busy serving their donors and not their constituents.

     
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  3. shionoro

    shionoro Mangahelper

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    No. Wikileaks, since some time by now, chooses its targets carefully. That has nothing to do with clinton alone.
    Wikileaks pulls a lot of shit, from not covering some things (like anything regarding russia since some time by now), to exposing people who have done nothing wrong to danger by carelessly releasing mails from people who live in autocrat societies who will definitely get problems due to that.

    Does your hate on clinton and the DNC make you blind to see that Wikileaks chooses its targets by now?

    I never said any democrat is honorable. Why do you want to deflect absolutely reasonable criticism of Trump with democrats?
    You are the one who is talking abotu democrats when your president is likely to have at least helped other people to commit an HUGE safety risk at best and treason at worst?

    Trump got where he is because of character assassination, stupidity and seemingly foreign influence taking.
    A weak democratic candidate cannot explain a completely incompetent and corrupted leader, at least not alone.
    And don't give me the millionaire and blue collar talk when they elect a guy who is one himself and abuses his workers more than most.
     
  4. kkck

    kkck MH Senpai

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    Well, to be fair, hillary got character assassinated because she was legitimately flawed. She ran a campaign to maintain the status quo, democrats failed to see how toxic she was, and wikileaks ultimate did release emails that went into a lot of detail regarding how she and bill used their government positions along with their foundations to secure paid speeches which is perfectly reasonable to see as bribes from goldman sachs.... Which I maintain is a shame because morons are still going on about how she uses the foundation as a literal expense account or some other bullshit. The email thing was also pretty bad though not as bad as it was made out to be. Basically, hillary did this to herself. There was legitimate corruption there to be found and her political enemies took advantage of that.

    And now, the big issue the US has to deal with is that trump has legitimate issues as well. Russia also hacked RNC emails. his taxes were never shown to the public. His business practices are questionable. The competency of his cabinet is questionable at best and non existent at worst.

    So the issue here is not merely that these guys are character assassinated. The issue here is that there is legitimate corruption that is being exposed from this people. And that is being used by their enemies, whether from inside or abroad. Imagine how things would have turned out if hillary clinton had not deleted 30000 emails. Or if she hadn't used a private server. Or if she didn't use her foundation and political positions to secure paid speeches (as the leaked emails say). That could have represented, say, 77000 votes in blue wall states... And trump is in exactly the same shithole. Perhaps even a deeper one.

    The US needs to get its head out of it's ass and start selecting people who can't be character assassinated by the freaking truth.
     
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  5. SharkBait

    SharkBait MH Senpai

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    I just realized how costly health insurance is, I got hired by a job and was looking at the benefits page, and while its cheap/almost no cost for the employee, a spouse was like 750$ a month, isnt that kind of a lot?! Hopefully Trumps plan can alter the cost of these policies.
     
  6. POW

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    First off Wikileaks doesn't choose targets they are organization that gives a platform for whistle-blowers to reveal information on corrupt institutions and individuals. Their founder is not siting comfortably in some penthouse in Manhattan but risking his security and his life even to openly expose such secrets while living in asylum. Pretending like he has some personal stake in Trump winning is just plain silly and only feeds the desperate narrative that corrupt DNC officials exposed by such leaking wish to deflect attention from themselves and build a conspiracy theory around Russia and Trump.


    I have no problem with reasonable criticism of Trump but I do have problem with false propaganda being spread as deflection of their own crimes being exposed,

    Trump at least made overtures to the working class by saying he would renegotiate bad trade deals and bring jobs. He was at least talking to the working class while Hillary spent all her time talking about how bad Trump is and how he said something bad about a woman in beauty pageant 20 years ago.

    Bernie spent his time talking about how he was going to make working class peoples lives better, raising minimum wage, making college near tuition free, Universal Healthcare a bold platform! People are hurting and looking for someone who will address and fix the problems and Hillary and the establishment DNC failed to even address the problems !!!!

    You know their strategy was to target Republican voters as they stated by Chuck Schumer "For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin"

    In other words forget about our working class base and progressives lets appeal to the "moderate right wing". Now you want to blame Hillary loosing on Russia, Wikileaks, the voters anyone but who is actually responsible Hillary and DNC leadership failed strategy and total disconnect from reality.
     
  7. Aonori

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    @shionoro @POW I will still think wikileaks is a lil controversial right now, ever since Assange was getting his mouth shut instead of delivering on his promises on exposing hillary Clinton on the promised day, made me very skeptical, something was up there at the very least and I'm keeping it at that.

    However the Haiti rape by the clintons and the DNC incompetence being reasons behind trump's victory are legit leaks, in fact the leakers seem to be more better news sources, than MSM and Alternative Media outlets, since I do find both types of media, doing their own sort of fake or exaggerated overhyped news from time to time, it´s best to take both sides with a grain of salt before more intel on the stuff they say is revealed, especially consideering that at this point, MS leftist Media wants to make Trump look bad by a sabotage scenario (Some media outlets labelled "fake news" even have the balls to call trump disonest, even though they were being pretty biased during the election, they are now being bashed by him as punishment (some instances, with judicial charges) and not because Trump is actually disonest and even if at this point, those media outlets want to score some better news, they are now tainted as fake by the president himself and so they lose their credibility, how was it? "Once you give people a certain impression of yourself, you will have a hard time getting them to change their mind, wasnt it?" Guess this is both the case for trump and some MSM channels, since they dont want to stop bashing him and he doesnt want to stop calling them fake either, (Bravo! We now have a 4 year bash loop on our hands between the two:XD)

    It was clear during the Election that Clinton News Network didnt had much stuff to bash trump with, on the same tier as what the conservative media + Wikileaks, and other leakers had to sabotage Clinton, about the russians, I´m taking all of that stuff with a grain of salt as well, case we went from Russians hacking election (which was BS), to Russian had a hand with the leaks (ok, that I can agree with, makes at least some degree of sense:verily), to Russians had private talks with the Trump administration, which seems true, but that doesnt even have much important and needed intel showcased either (like a exact date) and comes at the expense of a Obama last few days in office sabotage on the Trump administration, not good, it sets up a bad exemple, I just hope they dont trigger trump enough to start having him do more low blows and dirty political moves on a Obama level because his recent body language analysis, showcases a colder trump.:gwah
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  8. Onyx Darkmatter

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    Welcome to America, where we're #1 in Human Development but Healthcare is unaffordable.
     
  9. kkck

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    Well, WL has to be controversial by nature considering what they do is basically release information other people quite literally and without exceptions stole. And as far as wikileaks, didn't they ultimately deliver on clinton? The emails were very damning.... Though people didn't seem to care much (or didn't get perhaps) the important stuff in there.

    As for stuff to bash trump on.... I would think the media in general actually did a good job covering him. I mean, his business history, his incompetence, the "grab them by the pussy" video... Most of what was in the media about trump was actually true. Factcheckers did a good job in general. People just... didn't care. Or otherwise thought hillary was just as bad. And even now, the issue with the media is not that what they are doing with trump is wrong. The scrutiny trump is being subjected to is perfect, it is literally the media doing it's job as it is supposed to. If there is an issue here it is not that they are doing something wrong but rather that they did not do this with other politicians (say, obama). Of course, I do think that had obama been subjected to this level of scrutiny things wouldn't have been nearly as bad for him as they are for trump simply because trump and obama are not equal.
     
  10. xi0

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    CNN is partially responsible for creating Trump as a viable political candidate in the first place by giving him carte blanche access to the nightly shows.

    I'm not saying Trump was always treated fairly by the media in every case, but to say they invented things because they had nothing to go with is laughable.
     
  11. kkck

    kkck MH Senpai

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    The sad part here is that trump, or republicans, don't even have a plan to replace obamacare. Obamacare in their minds, though they are factually correct about it, is "regulation". And in the republican mind all regulation is literally what happens in satan's toilet after taco tuesday. However replacing obamacare would imply taking a set of regulations and replacing it with a different set of regulations. Why in gods name would a republican ever go ahead with something like that? Now, to be fair it is entirely possible that at least the simply stuff trump talked about during the campaign will be done (getting rid of state lines for insurance to increase competition for instance). But in no form or context could the vague stuff trump talked about ever properly replace obamacare. Republicans talk about "repeal and replace" but the way I see it they are either overtly lying about it or their idea of "replace" is to implement a regulation so bland that republicans are able to stomach it.
     
  12. Aonori

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    Who says they couldnt have just took something, from Trump´s past and morph it into something proper to bash him... Oh wait they did (and around the time of the Bill Clinton, rape acusations too must be a coincidence).:derp
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2017 at 12:19 AM, Original Post Date: Feb 18, 2017 at 12:07 AM ---
    You are right, most of them didnt, most prefered to go by the mentality of choosing what they considered the lesser of two evils (this tends to happen with elections in my country as well:-_-), instead of searching more on Trump and Hillary by themselves and devellop more critical thinking, most voted Trump just because he was better than Hillary Clinton. And whats funnier is that if they didnt like Trump they could´ve just not voted at all, but then the leftists believing in Hillary would go in and vote for her and she would be president so common sense made the majority side with Trump because they didnt want to give Hillary any chances. Overall this could´ve all been avoided if Bernie had passed instead of Hillary, because he wouldnt have been as antagonized as Hillary and thus people wouldnt be rooting more for trump, but apparently according to Snowden, you can sell your country and still get to be running to the presidency, while the ones fighting for it´s values can go to jail.

    But are they doing their job, more for the sake of the Money or for giving good true news to the American people? Because them getting the Money can still translate to them doing their job as they are supposed to (depending on their moral code).

    Yes, I know it´s not like they are twins, with the same personality and in the same party or anything of the sort:verily.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017 at 12:25 AM
  13. xi0

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    What are you referring to, exactly?
     
  14. M3J

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    Obama took a right step, but ACA was still flawed. Still annoyed republicans didn't try to fix it and chose to repeal it instead. Bitches.

    But I don't know how character assassination can be blamed for Hillary losing. She lost because she's untrustworthy and came off as such. `
     
  15. Onyx Darkmatter

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    I wouldn't mind them repealing the ACA if it means finding an alternative or a replacement for it, but to simply repeal it and leave millions of Americans Worse-off is just a terrible move on their part.
    Seriously, Insurance Companies must go.
     
  16. M3J

    M3J MH Senpai

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    Exactly my problem. The least they could have done was have a good replacement at hand before repealing it. Republicans have shown they are not for America or its citizens who aren't wealthy.
     
  17. POW

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    There are many who feel he should have gone further and just pushed for Universal Healthcare as Democrats had total control over the Executive and Legislative branch at the time. Plus Obama had the public really excited behind him and could have sold it directly to the American people rather than debate bobble heads in D.C. . A lot of people feel he compromised too early & to much.

    However I personally never saw Obama as some wild progressive and always saw him as being more pragmatic and as someone who likes to build consensus rather than force things through. He did campaign on wanting to bring the country together so him using the Republican alternative to UH was his olive branch to bring some of the right wing along and not having to have ugly in-fights with his own party which could effect the upcoming mid-terms which was already shaky cause of the bank bailouts.

    I have to say it is disturbingly hilarious to see republicans demonize their own Healthcare plan and claim to have an alternative when everyone knows this was their original alternative.
     
  18. M3J

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    maybe he went for peace and tried to keep the politicians united? I've been told though that the healthcare plan was originally a democrat's? I think a Clinton's? I forgot.

    Republicans never made sense since Obama's tenure. They most likely would demonize anything associated with Obama. Apparently their alternative now is "ACA Lite."
     
  19. Onyx Darkmatter

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    IIR, Obamacare is basically just "RomnyCare" with a couple adjustments and changes.
     
  20. Philia

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