Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

Shinuki no Reborn

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MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #32 - BOTH WAYS OF VOTING!

The poll for issue #32 is now open HERE!

Alongside the release of Ghost Reaper Girl, the extra series besides these two releases are:

-Jigokuraku 104
-Kaiju No.8 2


Good Votes!
 
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Ryuusei

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Haikyuu!! (Cover & LCP)
Jujutsu Kaisen
Mashle
Me and Roboco (CP)
Chainsaw Man
Magu-chan: God of Desctruction
Dr. Stone (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai (Extended Chapter)
Mission: Yozakura Family
Moriking (CP)
Undead Unluck (Extended Chapter)
Act-Age
Ayakashi Triangle
We Never Learn
Black Clover
Time Paradox Ghostwriter
Agravity Boys
Hachinin Ninja no Saishuu Shiken (One-shot)
Bone Collection
Mitama Security

Issue #33-34
Cover & LCP: One Piece
CP: Haikyuu!!, Mashle, Gin Iro no Seven (One-shot), KochiKame (One-shot)
Extended Chapter: Me and Roboco


 
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Ice King

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How much did Dr Stone sell overall?
 

Halloween

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Apologies everyone, the poll wasn't supposed to be hidden. I had to delete it and make it new in order to select the option. Sorry for the inconvenience.
 

Minsel

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dont we have new mangaplus ID's?
 

DeidaraGrimmjow

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So you mean, just because Hollywood made bad movies and tumblr doing tumblr things, rest of the world can not be progressive, even in a occupation that has forbidden women for over half a century, since its conception?
This is like using the aftermath of Haitian revolution to justify continuing slavery. No, you can't, there are more nuanced to it, just like there are more nuanced to why "woke" culture in the West fail. And it is not applicable to even more backward places like the sausage party of wsj editorial department.
Progress is inevitable, but it has to start somewhere.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



Speak like someone who never read shoujo manga.
Ever heard of Akatsuki no Yona?
Here come the straw man arguments. We're not talking about slavery in Haiti. We're talking about comics from Japan. You say made as if it were past tense. It's not only continuing but the norm now. SJW sensibilities have seeped in and ruined movies and shows at their core. Same with comics and even video games. You call it backwards and that female editors would be progress from you're POV and fine that's your opinion. I can only hope WSJ doesn't capitulate to such opinions. Jump has gotten along just fine doing what they are doing.

You're right I haven't and have no intention to. But yes the name is familiar. I assume it's a shojo series with fighting? Doesn't disprove anything I said. The exception doesn't make the rule. Cherry pick examples all you like that doesn't negate the overall point.

@Brizzi
You're right I would be. I was attempting to be PC and I shouldn't have. In my opinion, it wouldn't be welcome or necessary.
 

iamnightwing

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Considering the french numbers are supposedly around 2.5mln IIRC, the total is probably around 36mln WW (although we won't ever really know until they reveal them). The fact that they don't just use the worldwide number like they do for TPN instead of the japanese one is something that I find quite puzzling.
This. I would assume the WW numbers would easily add 10M copies on its total. Plus it is one of the if not the biggest seller internationally from Jump...
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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I dunno, bc for some reason doesn't appeal to Japanese folks, I mean, it doesn't even have that many fan arts or something that it can tell you, this has an established fanbase. You can only say that to the western fandom who always bring amazing colorings of the manga every week
But overall isnt the anime more profitable than the manga, and that's why the manga continues because it needs more content to adapt?
Not trying to attack anyone but for real, how you guys come up with stuff like these? it doesn't make any sense, how Black Clover is a series that doesn't appeal to Japanese? It's a popular and successful series since chapter 1, it sells over 200k copies per volume, which alone is higher than at least 95% of Magazine and Sunday line up, let alone the rest of the manga magazines in Japan, has a long running profitable anime, game, spinoff that sells decently, but because it doesn't have much fanart on internet it means it doesn't have a estabilished fanbase?

Sometimes i think some users are so sucked up into only talking about SJ that they don't have much idea of how well a manga like Black Clover is doing in the industry standards just because people are so used to look only at SJ series numbers like MHA, TPN, Haikyuu or Yaiba that they get numb to the rest of the industry
 

Ryuusei

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it sells over 200k copies per volume
Depends on your reference. In a month? Not anymore since volume 22. In a year? Volume 23 is going do that for sure and maybe volume 24 as well, but after that, there's a high possibility the new volumes won't do it.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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Depends on your reference. In a month? Not anymore since volume 22. In a year? Volume 23 is going do that for sure and maybe volume 24 as well, but after that, there's a high possibility the new volumes won't do it.
I'm talking about overall sales, crossing 200k is something Black Clover do easily, vol 24 was already with 158k in 17 days, it will easily crosss 200k within the fiscal year, and i don't see much reason to not believe that the new ones will do unless there's some Souma level of drop in sales.
 

101nemesis

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Not trying to attack anyone but for real, how you guys come up with stuff like these? it doesn't make any sense, how Black Clover is a series that doesn't appeal to Japanese? It's a popular and successful series since chapter 1, it sells over 200k copies per volume, which alone is higher than at least 95% of Magazine and Sunday line up, let alone the rest of the manga magazines in Japan, has a long running profitable anime, game, spinoff that sells decently, but because it doesn't have much fanart on internet it means it doesn't have a estabilished fanbase?

Sometimes i think some users are so sucked up into only talking about SJ that they don't have much idea of how well a manga like Black Clover is doing in the industry standards just because people are so used to look only at SJ series numbers like MHA, TPN, Haikyuu or Yaiba that they get numb to the rest of the industry
Talking about sales;
I'm not sure why you're ignoring the fact that WSJ has always had higher cutoffs and demands when it comes to sales and targets especially when you've followed this forum for years.
Big example to this would be the fact that S8, RxL would not have been cancelled had they been in another magazine because other magazines are more forgiving than WSJ.

It's why the argument always has been that 200-300k/month for a battle manga is average for WSJ. This strengthened by the example that JK and CSM have either already hit it or is about to hit that average mark without an anime.
General averages for battle manga in other magazines are far lower.

I'm not gonna comment on whether the Japanese love or hate the manga because, at the end of the day, 200k still buy it. So *shrugs*, arguments are valid either way.
 

tirakai

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What is the volume sales rankings of current WSJ series anyway? Now that there's only 9 established ones. I've probably got a couple mixed but I'm guessing it's something like

1) One Piece ~ 2mil?
2) MHA ~ 600k?
3) Haikyuu ~ 500k-600k?
4) Jujutsu ~ 250k-300k?
5) Black Clover ~ 150k-200k?
6) Dr Stone ~ 150k-200k?
7) Act-age ~ 100k-150k?
8) Chainsawman ~ 100k-150k?
9) We Never Learn ~ 100k?

and the newbies with a volume out

10) Mashle ~ 30k+
11) Undead ~ 20k+
12) Yozakura ~ 18-20k
13) Agravity Boys ~ 12k
14 ) Mitama ~5k
 

tirakai

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I know Haikyuu had a bigger peak, I think it was doing 900k per volume at one point?

But last I saw it had dropped enough to be just below MHA, though it could've climbed back up to #2.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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Talking about sales;
I'm not sure why you're ignoring the fact that WSJ has always had higher cutoffs and demands when it comes to sales and targets especially when you've followed this forum for years.
Big example to this would be the fact that S8, RxL would not have been cancelled had they been in another magazine because other magazines are more forgiving than WSJ.

It's why the argument always has been that 200-300k/month for a battle manga is average for WSJ. This strengthened by the example that JK and CSM have either already hit it or is about to hit that average mark without an anime.
General averages for battle manga in other magazines are far lower.
Your comment is much based in a logic that Shonen Jump is just the same magazine with the same mentality like in 2011/2012, when they're clearly not the same since the whole industry changed quite in these years and Jump is part of it, not something else, i also think a lot of people are used to think SJ editors play childish games as comparing who has the biggest thing in the magazine in order to decide what will they keep on it or not when in the end is about being profitable, not if X manga isn't able to reach what Y did.

Everybody knows that SJ naturally has a "higher" expectations of sales for their series but how much? you don't know, no one besides them know it, and seeing how something selling between 15k ~ 20k today is already enough to be considered a potential new success should tell that their current expectations are a lot less than some years ago and more in line of the current industry level, so why would Jump do anything against a profitable series selling 200k and having a successful anime? They already lost a ton of big hits and about to lose Haikyuu soon (CSM doesn't look like is going to be long too).

I know Haikyuu had a bigger peak, I think it was doing 900k per volume at one point?

But last I saw it had dropped enough to be just below MHA, though it could've climbed back up to #2.
I think what he's saying is that the last Haikyuu volume sold quite better than the last MHA volume (TPN too)
 

Thundercat27

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Here come the straw man arguments. We're not talking about slavery in Haiti. We're talking about comics from Japan. You say made as if it were past tense. It's not only continuing but the norm now. SJW sensibilities have seeped in and ruined movies and shows at their core. Same with comics and even video games. You call it backwards and that female editors would be progress from you're POV and fine that's your opinion. I can only hope WSJ doesn't capitulate to such opinions. Jump has gotten along just fine doing what they are doing.
Talking about straw man argument, we are talking about Japanese comics, not Western media. And speaking from experience, the east is too goddamn backward compare to the west.
Tho if you think continuing tradition of misogyny is fine, then I can't see this argument going anywhere.
After all, you can only think it is fine because you are looking at it from a consumer perspective (WSJ manga is still fine and dandy, right xd), and you know jack shit about what happens behind the scene.
Let's go back to your straw man and using Western media again. From a consumer perspective, movies produced by Harvey Weinstein are pretty good and many are considered masterpiece. That doesn't stop Harvey Weinstein from being condemned as a horrible human being and deserving rightful punishment by the law.

You're right I haven't and have no intention to. But yes the name is familiar. I assume it's a shojo series with fighting? Doesn't disprove anything I said. The exception doesn't make the rule. Cherry pick examples all you like that doesn't negate the overall point.
The point is, if you have no idea what you are talking about, then don't use it in your argument.
 
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Shinuki no Reborn

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@Minsel how you know precisely the number of copies of each series in the Shoseki estimations?
 

Tamil

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I know Haikyuu had a bigger peak, I think it was doing 900k per volume at one point?

But last I saw it had dropped enough to be just below MHA, though it could've climbed back up to #2.
Im talking about at the moment, not peaks
 

Minsel

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@Minsel how you know precisely the number of copies of each series in the Shoseki estimations?
at the bottom, there's a selection of numbers for each significant number, like 30, 50, 100, 200, 300, 400, and 500.
Basically next to the number, there's the amount that each ranking has for copies. I take the 100's number(the amount not the ranking) and minus it from the 200's number. Then I divide that number by 100 since there's a 100 ranks between 100 and 200. Then I times it by whatever rank is the series, so let's say the series is #143, then I multiply by 57. Finally, I add 57 to the 200's number, and there ya go!
 

Ryuusei

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Shoseki Daily Ranking - 6/29

#58 Chainsaw Man 7
#59 Jujutsu Kaisen 11
#62 World Trigger 22
#129 Jigokuraku 10
#217 We Never Learn 17
#291 Mashle 1
#433 Yuuna and the Haunted Hotsprings 22
 

Koni

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Not trying to attack anyone but for real, how you guys come up with stuff like these? it doesn't make any sense, how Black Clover is a series that doesn't appeal to Japanese? It's a popular and successful series since chapter 1, it sells over 200k copies per volume, which alone is higher than at least 95% of Magazine and Sunday line up, let alone the rest of the manga magazines in Japan, has a long running profitable anime, game, spinoff that sells decently, but because it doesn't have much fanart on internet it means it doesn't have a estabilished fanbase?

Sometimes i think some users are so sucked up into only talking about SJ that they don't have much idea of how well a manga like Black Clover is doing in the industry standards just because people are so used to look only at SJ series numbers like MHA, TPN, Haikyuu or Yaiba that they get numb to the rest of the industry
I kind of got curious about this and now I wanna compare Black Clover's recent sales with some of the highest selling manga from other magazines.

Black Clover V24: 158.8k in 17 days

WEEKLY YOUNG JUMP
Kingdom V58: 450.9k in 3 days
Golden Kamuy V21: 240k in 18 days
Kaguya-sama V18: 195.1k in 10 days (Hopefully V19 improves enough so the most beloved anime adaptation in the past 5-10 years can continue)

WEEKLY SHONEN MAGAZINE + POCKET
Ace of Diamond Act II V21: 160.9k in 24 days
Shikimori-san V5: 87.3k in 10 days (honestly surprised it's doing this well, as much as when I learned about Nagatoro's sales)
Fire Force V23: 76.1k in 10 days (S2 incoming)
Tokyo Revengers V17: 65.5k in 10 days (anime and live-action incoming)
-Real shame Quintuplets ended as it was boosting. That was gonna contend with HeroAca, Haikyuu, and Neverland.

WEEKLY SHONEN SUNDAY
Detective Conan V98: 333.8k in 26 days
Major 2nd V19: 91.6k in 18 days (anime airing now)
Komi-san V17: 90.0k in 10 days (This isn't even it's peak. An anime would sound really awesome, guys, just saying.)

WEEKLY SHONEN CHAMPION + MANGACROSS
Iruma-kun V17: 69.8k in 7 days (S2 coming soon)
Makai no Shuuyaku V1: 65.9k in 7 days (popular collab with YouTubers that's also an Iruma-kun spinoff)
Boku no Kokoro V3 LE: 58.3k in 7 days (usually in contention with SxF and CSM for awards)

SOURCE: Poked around other forum threads I follow here.

TL;DR: Reborn's kind of right. Hell, scrolling through the Weekly Shonen Magazine thread, 250-300k FM sales are what many people consider to be a pillar of the magazine - pillars that it recently just lost in Nanatsu no Taizai and Gotoubun no Hanayome, so Jump ain't the only one in need of a rebuild. Black Clover is selling quite average for a Jump series, but that's still considered incredibly well for magazines not owned by Shueisha, outselling most to all of WSM, WSS and WSC despite being in decline. (Remember, I only used series that made it onto Oricon in the first place, which has gotten needlessly harder thanks to Demon Slayer.) Despite this, I feel as if newer hits have the potential to surpass it very soon, as we're seeing with Jujutsu Kaisen and maybe Chainsaw Man.
 

101nemesis

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Your comment is much based in a logic that Shonen Jump is just the same magazine with the same mentality like in 2011/2012, when they're clearly not the same since the whole industry changed quite in these years and Jump is part of it, not something else, i also think a lot of people are used to think SJ editors play childish games as comparing who has the biggest thing in the magazine in order to decide what will they keep on it or not when in the end is about being profitable, not if X manga isn't able to reach what Y did.

Everybody knows that SJ naturally has a "higher" expectations of sales for their series but how much? you don't know, no one besides them know it, and seeing how something selling between 15k ~ 20k today is already enough to be considered a potential new success should tell that their current expectations are a lot less than some years ago and more in line of the current industry level, so why would Jump do anything against a profitable series selling 200k and having a successful anime? They already lost a ton of big hits and about to lose Haikyuu soon (CSM doesn't look like is going to be long too).
Pretty sure at no point in my comment did I mention WSJ will do anything with BC because of its declining sales. That's just the insecurity of fans being projected onto my comments. I can't speak for what others said.
WSJ has changed? Yet just two years ago we lost an 80k seller in RxL from a veteran, which was still a solid number. We lost S8 from Kishimoto before the one year mark, despite it doing 30k. 30k is actually a decent debut number for a new series - the same thing we say for Mashle. Obviously other factors involved but where does this play into your argument that WSJ has changed?

New series that sell badly and rank poorly are still cancelled.
Or is it because Mitama, Yozakura and AG are kept around despite meh ranks and even more meh sales? There could be tons of reasons why, the most obvious being WSJ wants a new series to stick. Watch WSJ start cancelling stuff once Mashle and UxU (I'm guessing) become confirmed permanent manga in the roster and something from this current batch like TGPW or Magu-chan (I hope) also succeed.

No point in this argument. But people really need to stop acting as tho WSJ has changed. It hasn't. People used this same argument to say S8 was safe and it wasn't.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I kind of got curious about this and now I wanna compare Black Clover's recent sales with some of the highest selling manga from other magazines.

Black Clover V24: 158.8k in 17 days

WEEKLY YOUNG JUMP
Kingdom V58: 450.9k in 3 days
Golden Kamuy V21: 240k in 18 days
Kaguya-sama V18: 195.1k in 10 days (Hopefully V19 improves enough so the most beloved anime adaptation in the past 5-10 years can continue)

WEEKLY SHONEN MAGAZINE + POCKET
Ace of Diamond Act II V21: 160.9k in 24 days
Shikimori-san V5: 87.3k in 10 days (honestly surprised it's doing this well, as much as when I learned about Nagatoro's sales)
Fire Force V23: 76.1k in 10 days (S2 incoming)
Tokyo Revengers V17: 65.5k in 10 days (anime and live-action incoming)
-Real shame Quintuplets ended as it was boosting. That was gonna contend with HeroAca, Haikyuu, and Neverland.

WEEKLY SHONEN SUNDAY
Detective Conan V98: 333.8k in 26 days
Major 2nd V19: 91.6k in 18 days (anime airing now)
Komi-san V17: 90.0k in 10 days (This isn't even it's peak. An anime would sound really awesome, guys, just saying.)

WEEKLY SHONEN CHAMPION + MANGACROSS
Iruma-kun V17: 69.8k in 7 days (S2 coming soon)
Makai no Shuuyaku V1: 65.9k in 7 days (popular collab with YouTubers that's also an Iruma-kun spinoff)
Boku no Kokoro V3 LE: 58.3k in 7 days (usually in contention with SxF and CSM for awards)

SOURCE: Poked around other forum threads I follow here.

TL;DR: Reborn's kind of right. Hell, scrolling through the Weekly Shonen Magazine thread, 250-300k FM sales are what many people consider to be a pillar of the magazine - pillars that it recently just lost in Nanatsu no Taizai and Gotoubun no Hanayome, so Jump ain't the only one in need of a rebuild. Black Clover is selling quite average for a Jump series, but that's still considered incredibly well for magazines not owned by Shueisha, outselling most to all of WSM, WSS and WSC despite being in decline. (Remember, I only used series that made it onto Oricon in the first place, which has gotten needlessly harder thanks to Demon Slayer.) Despite this, I feel as if newer hits have the potential to surpass it very soon, as we're seeing with Jujutsu Kaisen and maybe Chainsaw Man.
"250-300k FM sales are what many people consider to be a pillar of the magazine"
Yep. It's what everyone has been saying tho.

Kingdom was THE pillar for WYJ when it sold 200-300k 5 years ago. Back then there were few series selling more than it as well (Terra Formars and Tokyo Ghoul) but Kingdom was still regarded more highly than them by the magazine.
 
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