Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

Shinuki no Reborn

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MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #32 - BOTH WAYS OF VOTING!

The poll for issue #32 is now open HERE!

Alongside the release of Ghost Reaper Girl, the extra series besides these two releases are:

-Jigokuraku 104
-Kaiju No.8 2


Good Votes!
 
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Ryuusei

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Haikyuu!! (Cover & LCP)
Jujutsu Kaisen
Mashle
Me and Roboco (CP)
Chainsaw Man
Magu-chan: God of Desctruction
Dr. Stone (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai (Extended Chapter)
Mission: Yozakura Family
Moriking (CP)
Undead Unluck (Extended Chapter)
Act-Age
Ayakashi Triangle
We Never Learn
Black Clover
Time Paradox Ghostwriter
Agravity Boys
Hachinin Ninja no Saishuu Shiken (One-shot)
Bone Collection
Mitama Security

Issue #33-34
Cover & LCP: One Piece
CP: Haikyuu!!, Mashle, Gin Iro no Seven (One-shot), KochiKame (One-shot)
Extended Chapter: Me and Roboco


 
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Koni

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Pretty sure at no point in my comment did I mention WSJ will do anything with BC because of its declining sales. That's just the insecurity of fans being projected onto my comments. I can't speak for what others said.
WSJ has changed? Yet just two years ago we lost an 80k seller in RxL from a veteran, which was still a solid number. We lost S8 from Kishimoto before the one year mark, despite it doing 30k. 30k is actually a decent debut number for a new series - the same thing we say for Mashle. Obviously other factors involved but where does this play into your argument that WSJ has changed?

New series that sell badly and rank poorly are still cancelled.
Or is it because Mitama, Yozakura and AG are kept around despite meh ranks and even more meh sales? There could be tons of reasons why, the most obvious being WSJ wants a new series to stick. Watch WSJ start cancelling stuff once Mashle and UxU (I'm guessing) become confirmed permanent manga in the roster and something from this current batch like TGPW or Magu-chan (I hope) also succeed.

No point in this argument. But people really need to stop acting as tho WSJ has changed. It hasn't. People used this same argument to say S8 was safe and it wasn't.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



"250-300k FM sales are what many people consider to be a pillar of the magazine"
Yep. It's what everyone has been saying tho.

Kingdom was THE pillar for WYJ when it sold 200-300k 5 years ago. Back then there were few series selling more than it as well (Terra Formars and Tokyo Ghoul) but Kingdom was still regarded more highly than them by the magazine.
I feel like the numerical bar for success has gotten lower because a lot of the newer series have just been selling less than the old. Though I don't think the way Jump does things have changed. S8 and RxL were declining by the volume, so they were cancelled. And yeah, I agree that the only reason there's a lot of new series that seem to stick around is because WSJ badly needs new hits. A lot of the manga pre TPGW might've been already cancelled if WSJ had more established series.

Speaking of, I'm getting more convinced that Ayakashi's survival will depend almost entirely on whether it can grow rather than sales of it's first volume.
 

Halloween

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#58 Chainsaw Man 7
#59 Jujutsu Kaisen 11
#62 World Trigger 22


Weekly Shonen Jump is the best-selling manga magazine, as well as one of the longest-running; the first issue was released with a cover date of August 1, 1968.
 

tirakai

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What's interesting to me, rather than what kind of sales are considered a big hit, is the lower limit for success in other magazines.

A new series in WSJ that sells 2-3k for vol 1 in its first week is seen as a big flop, but a new series selling that much in Sunday or Champion would be seen as a promising newcomer. Like SHY in Champion sells probably about the same as WSJ's Guardian of the Witch vol 1, but guardian got cancelled right away while SHY will probably get a full-length run.

Just goes to show, even with the sales standard for success in WSJ being lower these days it's still much higher than elsewhere.

Granted Mitama's selling very low for something that's past ch 40 but I expect it'll get cancelled soon.
 

Koni

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What's interesting to me, rather than what kind of sales are considered a big hit, is the lower limit for success in other magazines.

A new series in WSJ that sells 2-3k for vol 1 in its first week is seen as a big flop, but a new series selling that much in Sunday or Champion would be seen as a promising newcomer. Like SHY in Champion sells probably about the same as WSJ's Guardian of the Witch vol 1, but guardian got cancelled right away while SHY will probably get a full-length run.

Just goes to show, even with the sales standard for success in WSJ being lower these days it's still much higher than elsewhere.

Granted Mitama's selling very low for something that's past ch 40 but I expect it'll get cancelled soon.
Yeah, the highest selling Champion manga right now is only doing slightly better numbers than We Never Learn. Remove the long running Conan from Sunday (and maybe Zettai Karen Children?), and I'm pretty sure Chainsaw Man has already outsold the magazine's entire lineup. Same with Magazine, barring Ace of Diamond Act II. It's crazy. Manga getting to six figures in other magazines I treat as an accomplishment. Here? It's just nice to see it grow. Kind of expected, though.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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Pretty sure at no point in my comment did I mention WSJ will do anything with BC because of its declining sales. That's just the insecurity of fans being projected onto my comments. I can't speak for what others said.
WSJ has changed? Yet just two years ago we lost an 80k seller in RxL from a veteran, which was still a solid number. We lost S8 from Kishimoto before the one year mark, despite it doing 30k. 30k is actually a decent debut number for a new series - the same thing we say for Mashle. Obviously other factors involved but where does this play into your argument that WSJ has changed?

New series that sell badly and rank poorly are still cancelled.
Or is it because Mitama, Yozakura and AG are kept around despite meh ranks and even more meh sales? There could be tons of reasons why, the most obvious being WSJ wants a new series to stick. Watch WSJ start cancelling stuff once Mashle and UxU (I'm guessing) become confirmed permanent manga in the roster and something from this current batch like TGPW or Magu-chan (I hope) also succeed.

No point in this argument. But people really need to stop acting as tho WSJ has changed. It hasn't. People used this same argument to say S8 was safe and it wasn't.
God, people keep using Robot x Laserbeam or Samurai 8 like the sole mention of these series could explain the origin of the universe, want to make a point? "RoBOt aNd SaMuRaI 8 wErE aXEd" but ofc, just forget the context behind these 2 cases.

If you want to pretend that SJ still the exactly same magazine from 9/10 years ago, that's with you, hard to be more obvious than these last two years with the toc placements becoming less relevant with time and their standard for new series sales lowering a lot, and before the "hey and the flop series that were canceled quickly?", ofc SJ will still cancel your standard big flop quickly, even Magazine or Sunday do that too.

In the end it wasn't even the point of my original comment, you're the one that quoted pushing it to other topic, because it seems like you have some kind of insecurity when people are trying to defend Black Clover so you have to quote the person and argue about it endlessly, so really, a waste of time.
 

Tamil

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This talk about BC is reminiscent of Toriko. People were saying more or less the same thing about it in terms of success.
 

pamuchi

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Jesus, I didn't attack BC at all or tried to downplay the series. I only said what I perceived in media lately.

I know there are important aspects than fan arts or other stuff to measure popularity/performance/like of a series.

A with the appeal matter, maybe I should have clarified that it doesn't appeal to a wider audience (though, in the western side, I've seen a major growth). That's why I said I see more of a established fanbase to westerns than the JPN.

Apologies if I caused problems.
 

Ryuusei

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I'm talking about overall sales, crossing 200k is something Black Clover do easily, vol 24 was already with 158k in 17 days, it will easily crosss 200k within the fiscal year, and i don't see much reason to not believe that the new ones will do unless there's some Souma level of drop in sales.
Shokugeki didn't drop drastically, it was a slow and steady decline, much like the one Black Clover is showing. Not to mention Black Clover had numbers way smaller than Shokugeki's for a really long time. If volume 25 sells short of volume 24 then it probably won't cross 200,000 before November.

What is the volume sales rankings of current WSJ series anyway? Now that there's only 9 established ones. I've probably got a couple mixed but I'm guessing it's something like

1) One Piece ~ 2mil?
2) MHA ~ 600k?
3) Haikyuu ~ 500k-600k?
4) Jujutsu ~ 250k-300k?
5) Black Clover ~ 150k-200k?
6) Dr Stone ~ 150k-200k?
7) Act-age ~ 100k-150k?
8) Chainsawman ~ 100k-150k?
9) We Never Learn ~ 100k?

and the newbies with a volume out

10) Mashle ~ 30k+
11) Undead ~ 20k+
12) Yozakura ~ 18-20k
13) Agravity Boys ~ 12k
14 ) Mitama ~5k
Most recent volumes for each series.

|1070591 (3)|1433765|1542758|1594700|1633236┃1,688,363 (*45)┃2020/04/03|One Piece 96​
|341136 (5)|419977|454793|475659|--------┃*,475,659 (*26)┃2020/05/13|Haikyuu!! 43​
|288727 (5)|397396|446419|471684|491872┃*,508,533 (*40)┃2020/03/04|My Hero Academia 26
|*69994 (3)|138580|158817|--------|--------┃*,158,817 (*17)┃2020/04/03|Black Clover 24
|*53622 (4)|--------|--------|--------|--------┃*,*53,622 (**4)┃2020/06/04|We Never Learn 17
|*65114 (3)|123855|141339|--------|--------┃*,141,339 (*17)┃2020/04/03|Dr. Stone 15
|*81831 (5)|110964|--------|--------|--------┃*,110,964 (*12)┃2020/05/13|Act–Age 11
|151987 (4)|204416|229872|--------|--------┃*,229,872 (*18)┃2020/06/04|Jujutsu Kaisen 11
|*94813 (4)|132988|--------|--------|--------┃*,132,988 (*11)┃2020/06/04|Chainsaw Man 7
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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Shokugeki didn't drop drastically, it was a slow and steady decline, much like the one Black Clover is showing. Not to mention Black Clover had numbers way smaller than Shokugeki's for a really long time. If volume 25 sells short of volume 24 then it probably won't cross 200,000 before November.
22. Shokugeki no Souma #31 (27,739 / 265,804)
48. Shokugeki no Souma #32 (21,057 / 230,838)
13. Shokugeki no Souma #33 (43,200 / 183,803)

This isn't "slow", this is drastically, it happened exactly after the time skip when Souma was facing a lot of backlash by readers for the blue arc, the reviews on sites like Amazon were terrible too, Black Clover isn't facing backlash or hard criticism, it's just facing a slow drop in sales, it also doesn't help that Yaiba is eating so many places for the last 3 volumes which makes the series drop faster from the top 50.
 

Ryuusei

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22. Shokugeki no Souma #31 (27,739 / 265,804)
48. Shokugeki no Souma #32 (21,057 / 230,838)
13. Shokugeki no Souma #33 (43,200 / 183,803)

This isn't "slow", this is drastically, it happened exactly after the time skip when Souma was facing a lot of backlash by readers for the blue arc, the reviews on sites like Amazon were terrible too, Black Clover isn't facing backlash or hard criticism, it's just facing a slow drop in sales, it also doesn't help that Yaiba is eating so many places for the last 3 volumes which makes the series drop faster from the top 50.
Its decline started way before that. Also, Kimetsu no Yaiba taking over the top 50 just means we don't get to see Black Clover's numbers, not that it makes Black Clover sell less. However, what we have seen just shows that Black Clover is declining and it needs to hit a plateau quickly. The circulation numbers have barely increased in a year and we barely hear of any reprints. Jujutsu Kaisen has already surpassed it, Chainsaw Man is pretty much on par with it and Dr. Stone is slowly catching up. It's being left behind and should Act-Age catch up to it, it would leave the series in a pretty awkward spot.
 

yadayada

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22. Shokugeki no Souma #31 (27,739 / 265,804)
48. Shokugeki no Souma #32 (21,057 / 230,838)
13. Shokugeki no Souma #33 (43,200 / 183,803)

This isn't "slow", this is drastically, it happened exactly after the time skip when Souma was facing a lot of backlash by readers for the blue arc, the reviews on sites like Amazon were terrible too, Black Clover isn't facing backlash or hard criticism, it's just facing a slow drop in sales, it also doesn't help that Yaiba is eating so many places for the last 3 volumes which makes the series drop faster from the top 50.
Why are you focusing on those 3 volumes when shokugeki had been dropping for years before then?



All the way since volume 14 it's been nothing but drops for Soma. Not to mention it took years for soma to drop below peak BC's numbers (volume 32), let alone current BC's numbers.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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Some of you do really have a problem of understanding basic comments you have to spoon feed the most simple things kkkk

Its decline started way before that. Also, Kimetsu no Yaiba taking over the top 50 just means we don't get to see Black Clover's numbers, not that it makes Black Clover sell less. However, what we have seen just shows that Black Clover is declining and it needs to hit a plateau quickly. The circulation numbers have barely increased in a year and we barely hear of any reprints. Jujutsu Kaisen has already surpassed it, Chainsaw Man is pretty much on par with it and Dr. Stone is slowly catching up. It's being left behind and should Act-Age catch up to it, it would leave the series in a pretty awkward spot.
The "decline" you're talking about is the same "decline" that every long running series who reach their climax in sales faces sooner or later, the decline that i was talking was the one when a series faces backlash by it's own readers fanbase and start to drop in sales and overral perception, BC isn't facing this, also it's a series with over 5 years of serialization, pointing out that series with 2 years at most are growing in their most prolific time and reaching it doesn't make Black Clover embarrassing at all, this is just the "comparing who has the biggest thing" i talked about, and honestly, it just sounds like you're letting your personal view of the series get mixed in your comments since you're just throwing series out of nowhere in order to make BC looks bad.
 

Ryuusei

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I think the whole thread will disagree with me but i stand the WSJ will be always male centric. They've been consistently successful company for 50+ years with the same demographic , what they've need to be changed? I don't put down female to be successful mangaka and employees but I don't wanted Jump to be Woke or Feminist agenda just like how the Hollywood shows did messed up the beloved series right now such as the Last Jedi, Ghostbusters 2016, Terminator fate, Captain Marvel, The last of Us 2, She-Ra, Doctor who etc. All of them are written by female and Japanese folks are don't fan of it. When I remembered those horrible shows, I'm just happy for Jump did stay where it is.
Damn, you had the bravery to post all of this and still miss the entire point of the discussion? Props to you. Also, the Last Jedi and the Terminator: Dark Fate are both written solely by a males and the rest is written by a joint effort of males and females, with the exception of She-Ra.

The "decline" you're talking about is the same "decline" that every long running series who reach their climax in sales faces sooner or later, the decline that i was talking was the one when a series faces backlash by it's own readers fanbase and start to drop in sales and overral perception, BC isn't facing this, also it's a series with over 5 years of serialization, pointing out that series with 2 years at most are growing in their most prolific time and reaching it doesn't make Black Clover embarrassing at all, this is just the "comparing who has the biggest thing" i talked about, and honestly, it just sounds like you're letting your personal view of the series get mixed in your comments since you're just throwing series out of nowhere in order to make BC looks bad.
And what is my personal view of the series? Please, enlighten me.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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And what is my personal view of the series? Please, enlighten me.
Taking in count that every time you mention this series is in a negative way saying chapter was boring, i don't like this, i don't like that, it doesn't seem much positive to me, so you go and i don't know why, throw a bunch of series to say "look, this series is reaching it sales or is probably going to do, it's looking awkward to BC", it doesn't give any positive vibe at all, which i don't have a problem, it's your personal opinion if you're not liking the current arc, but this "look at my chart" thing is just like i said, comparing who has the biggest thing as if it's all of what matters in the end.
 

yadayada

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Some of you do really have a problem of understanding basic comments you have to spoon feed the most simple things kkkk
I don't have a problem understanding anything, I didn't even bother joining the BC discussion aside from correcting you on the fact that soma did indeed have a slow and steady drop for years. Maybe you missed that?

I don't really have a personal view of the series at all considering I don't even read it, but numbers are numbers. BC was never much of a pillar within the context of WSJ, and in different times series in this same position got cut from the lineup. BC is going to keep surviving for some time because of the current situation of the magazine, but if its trend continues and the magazine finds more successes we all know where it's headed, even if you're in denial.

This is something you can already see to be frank, just look at how much its ToC positions dropped compared to just last year's and how far back Asta was moved in the latest group cover, WSJ is making it pretty clear that their interest in the series as it stands isn't very high. Also acting like simple numbers talk is hating on the series is quite bizarre considering you should know what kind of topic this is, this isn't a discussion on the state of the series but rather of its position in the magazine, try to understand that.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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I don't have a problem understanding anything, I didn't even bother joining the BC discussion aside from correcting you on the fact that soma did indeed have a slow and steady drop for years. Maybe you missed that?

I don't really have a personal view of the series at all considering I don't even read it, but numbers are numbers. BC was never much of a pillar within the context of WSJ, and in different times series in this same position got cut from the lineup. BC is going to keep surviving for some time because of the current situation of the magazine, but if its trend continues and the magazine finds more successes we all know where it's headed, even if you're in denial.

This is something you can already see to be frank, just look at how much its ToC positions dropped compared to just last year's and how far back Asta was moved in the latest group cover, WSJ is making it pretty clear that their interest in the series as it stands isn't very high. Also acting like simple numbers talk is hating on the series is quite bizarre considering you should know what kind of topic this is, this isn't a discussion on the state of the series but rather of its position in the magazine, try to understand that.
The comment was about you asking why i only posted that 3 Souma volumes when it was quite obvious that i was talking about the drastic drop in sales from Souma due to the backlash of blue arc, it wasn't about BC.
 

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Taking in count that every time you mention this series is in a negative way saying chapter was boring, i don't like this, i don't like that, it doesn't seem much positive to me, so you go and i don't know why, throw a bunch of series to say "look, this series is reaching it sales or is probably going to do, it's looking awkward to BC", it doesn't give any positive vibe at all, which i don't have a problem, it's your personal opinion if you're not liking the current arc, but this "look at my chart" thing is just like i said, comparing who has the biggest thing as if it's all of what matters in the end.
Yeah, sure. I mean it's not like I was huge Black Clover fan for a big portion of its run and my interest in the series just started to dim. And I don't actively comment on Black Clover chapters, I only do when I expect something out of them. Also, maybe I know when to separate my personal opinions and just showing facts. If I wanted to make Black Clover look bad, I could word my posts in a much different way but I don't because I have no strong feelings against the series and that wouldn't be the point.
 

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Some of you do really have a problem of understanding basic comments you have to spoon feed the most simple things kkkk



The "decline" you're talking about is the same "decline" that every long running series who reach their climax in sales faces sooner or later, the decline that i was talking was the one when a series faces backlash by it's own readers fanbase and start to drop in sales and overral perception, BC isn't facing this, also it's a series with over 5 years of serialization, pointing out that series with 2 years at most are growing in their most prolific time and reaching it doesn't make Black Clover embarrassing at all, this is just the "comparing who has the biggest thing" i talked about, and honestly, it just sounds like you're letting your personal view of the series get mixed in your comments since you're just throwing series out of nowhere in order to make BC looks bad.
What matters in the end is the percental decline and not the actual numbers. A decline of nearly 100k sales matters far less for a series that sells 600-700k than for a series like BC that only sold 250k at its peak. In BCs case, it lost nearly 40% of its sales in the first month compared to its peak. For a series that sells 700k, it would only be 14.3%, for a series selling 600k it would be 16.7%, both being far below 40%. Not forgetting to mention that BC has a long running anime, while most other Jump manga have seasonal anime, so their sales usually get at least a small boost again once they get another season.

Also, I wouldn't really say that whether there's backlash or no backlash from western fans really matters. There are manga and anime that are more popular in the west and there's some series more popular in Japan. I think you can't deny that BC is obviously a lot bigger in the west. Plus, as someone who has been following BC since chapter 1, I've observed that BC's fan base has evolved into one of the least critical fan bases of any anime or manga in the west. As in, the fan base is less willing to criticize the series than most other fan bases of other anime or manga. To me, it looks like the majority of the western BC fan base is willing to accept nearly any direction the series takes without much criticism or backlash.

So, I'd say whether there's backlash from the Japanese fan base is a lot more important, because the sales in Japan depend on the Japanese fan base and not the western fan base. This is just my opinion and observation though, you're free to disagree with me.
 
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Shinuki no Reborn

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What matters in the end is the percental decline and not the actual numbers. A decline of nearly 100k sales matters far less for a series that sells 600-700k than for a series like BC that only sold 250k at its peak. In BCs case, it lost nearly 40% of its sales in the first month compared to its peak. For a series that sells 700k, it would only be 14.3%, for a series selling 600k it would be 16.7%, both being far below 40%. Not forgetting to mention that BC has a long running anime, while most other Jump manga have seasonal anime, so their sales usually get at least a small boost again once they get another season.

Also, I wouldn't really say that whether there's backlash or no backlash from western fans really matters. There are manga and anime that are more popular in the west and there's some series more popular in Japan. I think you can't deny that BC is obviously a lot bigger in the west. Plus, as someone who has been following BC since chapter 1, I've observed that BC's fan base has evolved into one of the least critical fan bases of any anime or manga in the west. As in, the fan base is less willing to criticize the series than most other fan bases of other anime or manga. To me, it looks like the majority of the western BC fan base is willing to accept nearly any direction the series takes without much criticism or backlash.

So, I'd say whether there's backlash from the Japanese fan base is a lot more important, because the sales in Japan depend on the Japanese fan base and not the western fan base. This is just my opinion and observation though, you're free to disagree with me.
It seems just like Yadayada you got things completely wrong from the comment, i was never talking about western but the japanese readers when it comes to sales, backlash and stuff lol
 

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September Volumes

One Piece #97
Boku no Hero Academia #28
Yuragisou no Yuuna-san #23
Dr. STONE #17
Undead Unluck #3
Guardian of the Witch #3 (END)

Jigokuraku 11
Vigilantes 10
2.5 D Seduction 6
Spy X Family 5



Doesn't differ much from the Provisional, if at all (actually, I forgot what the Provisional was, but eh), but just thought I'd post.
 
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