CP9 vs Kuma-bots

Onomatopoeia

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All right so then lets get this section kicked off by a something that I'm curious to know.

If CP9 had to face a limitless amount of Kumabots how far would they get? Eventually they will lose, but my question is when will they lose?

Now then a few guidelines for this fight.

They are in the same place as where the SHs fought the KumaBots.

They fight them 1 at a time. Meaning the moment one Kumabot falls another takes it's place.

CIS/PIS and Bloodlust is on meaning the characters will use their abilities to the fullest and will find and attack the quickest way possible(meaning Blueno Doa Doa Hax is allowed Lucci will go to Zoan immediatly etc.).
 
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paradoxe

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

If its 1 at a time..I think they'd go quite far. Remember they're a group of assassins, used to working as a team to dispatch a target together.

I'd imagine they could get past 10 or so at least.

In fact, Lucci is probably strong enough to take at least two by himself.
 

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

hm.. 10
Im not sure, seeing how the SHs managed all together to just beat one of them, while they managed to beat CP9. Though Choppers win over Kumadori wouldn't count imo.

I would say 3 .. . max 5

Edit: correction: CP9 vs Pacifista: 1 (max 2)
 
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paradoxe

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

Im not sure, seeing how the SHs managed all together to just beat one of them, while they managed to beat CP9. Though Choppers win over Kumadori wouldn't count imo.
Except the SHs were pretty much still recovering from THriller Bark, and I'm sure they could've taken out at least another 2 Kumabots. Kizaru and Sentoumaru came too fast.
 

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

Except the SHs were pretty much still recovering from THriller Bark, and I'm sure they could've taken out at least another 2 Kumabots. Kizaru and Sentoumaru came too fast.
I guess beside Zoro, everyone was pretty much healed (Panel 1 Sanji).

I believe the SHs wouldn't have managed much more of those Pacifist's (Panel 4 Sanji)
. Luffy even ordered to run, even though he hasn't seen Sentos ability.

So I correct myself: CP9 vs Pacifista: 1 (max 2)
 
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Onomatopoeia

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

I think your forgetting about Doa Doa Hax...
 

bittman

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

I think you're forgetting how poorly Blueno used Doa Doa?

I would say they would take out just as many as the Strawhat's would be able to take out consecutively. That would be 2. When the Strawhat's teamed up they took out one, and though we saw some severe ownage of the big chested machine, we missed a lot of what obviously tired them out whilst watching some cherished Supernova fan service.
 

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

CIS/PIS and Bloodlust is on meaning the characters will use their abilities to the fullest and will find and attack the quickest way possible(meaning Blueno Doa Doa Hax is allowed Lucci will go to Zoan immediatly etc.).
CIS and PIS is off for a reason...meaning if someone has a hax power they will use and they won't be idiots about it. And people like Kalifa won't use their DFs 24/7 when they have just as good Rokushiki skills.

Anyways I personally wouldn't put it above 5, if they played it correctly.
 
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BlackHair

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

I agree with bittman. Bluenos door ability wasn't rly useful in a high speed battle. I mean he tried to take down Luffy by opening a door behind him (damn sneaky imo, but ok in a death match), still Luffy managed to evade and to take him down. The same Luffy was exhausted while fighting PX-4, who can now use Gear 2 and 3 at the same time. So I think even if Blueno would teleport Lucci (by opening doors), it wouldn't help that much. I think they could use that only to evade attacks and to rest.

Lucci, Kaku and Jyabura are similar to the monster trio. While Kalifa's and Blueno's ability makes the difference between CP9 and SHs. But both are not as strong/fast as LKJ (Lucci, Kaku, Jya), so who knows if they even manage to use their ability properly against a Pacifista.

There is a reason why Luffy ordered his crew to retreat after seeing PX-1, even though he hasn't seen Sento in action. Those Pacisfista are damn strong, Kiz was the guy who brought them to SA Island. If a Admiral thinks they are worth being under his command, then they must be. I think many are underestimating those Pacifista.
 
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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

Maybe blueno can use a door to open up the kuma-bots and be able to attack directly the more delicate insides of the pacifista. Course why he didnt do that before is something that I dont know, but I dont see why he wouldnt be able to do it.
 

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

I guess beside Zoro
Zoro is one out of the monster trio, probably the second strongest in the crew.

Him being injured was a HUGE blow.

Besides, I believe that the CP9 can work better in a team then the Strawhats..considering how the Strawhats are used to fighting individually.
 

Absolutio

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

Besides, I believe that the CP9 can work better in a team then the Strawhats..considering how the Strawhats are used to fighting individually.
Didn't you read the TB arc? O_o The StrawHats have excellent team work!
Anyways, I agree with the guy who said that the CP9 will probably be able to take 1 Pacifista, and I give them 3 max if they play their cards right.
 

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

To put it simply thats because Blueno's was being forced to use his Hax ability unwisely because of plot.

In this case Blueno easily has the reaction time to open a door inside Kuma's head, let Lucci fire off a Gaichou into Kumabot and that's one down. Really I wan't posts on Kumabots supposed High-Speed Showings.

CP9 has a huge advatange over Mugiwaras because nearly all their attacks are Close Range(Ussop being the obvious exception,Luffy normaly fights Short Range) while CP9 has Rankyokou which would allow them to attack Kumabot while dodging laser beams. Kumabots aren't fast so he won't be able to take fight to them, this is a case of Long Range vs Short in that CP9 has stronger Long Range Attacks.
 
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BlackHair

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

To put it simply thats because Blueno's was being forced to use his Hax ability unwisely because of plot.
U have no basics to say that, its similar to our Ace's fanservice talk. We have to take facts like it was shown. Blueno isn't able to open the skin, unless its proven wrong by Oda.

I believe Blueno's ability doesn't allow him to open small/thinly body parts like skin, tissues, muscles etc. Maybe he can't focus on small parts or for w.e reason.. idk. He can only use it on body parts like leg, arm, head and on pieces of them like femoral (leg), upper arm (arm) etc. As already shown while fighting Luffy. I don't know if its understandable what I just wrote, try to read it two times, if not then just skip it :p

Really I wan't posts on Kumabots supposed High-Speed Showings.
Most of the fight was off-panel so I can't proof anything. But the fact that the monster trio was bleeding shows that they were hit by the laser, kicks and punches of PX-4. So it was able to keep up with the speed of the SHs, who beat CP9 and are now faster as before. So the Px must be fast, I don't except standing idle and shooting laser is the only thing they can do. They are also able to catch. <- simple logic.

While you are right, that CP9 has more long ranch techniques, I don't think it would have any big impacts on a PX. Seriously the moster trio had no major problems to deal with Rankyaku. Nami has also her lighting attacks, which do good damage. I think the laser of a PX is generally stronger than a Rankyaku, (probably except Lucci, Kaku and Jya). SHs long ranch: Ussop, Zoro, Robin (and maybe Nami, Luffy and Franky, some of their attacks are long ranch, though Luffys fights are usually in close ranch, like u said). In the end it comes down to more efficient damage, in what the SHs are superior to CP9.

paradox, you are right about Zoro. They did not had 100% of their fighting power, still Luffy, Sanji and all of them were pretty exhausted. I believe even if Zoro would have been at full health, I don't think they would have beaten many of those, so in CP9s case: I don't have much hopes xD

On ur other part of post, I do think like Absolutio, that they are pretty good at teamwork. Fights like vsOz and and their coordination ability in fights like vsCroco's troop, vsCP9 does emphasize that.

the guy who said [..]
the guy? ah .. yes, that's me. I'm afraid I've a name. :p

Just to point out, the SHs took down a single PX with a lot of efforts, even though they are stronger than back on Enis Lobby. I know Zoro and Chopper wouldn't rly count, on the other hand we have Brook now.

Now I see it turning into a heated debate "again".. is it my fault? xD
 
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Onomatopoeia

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

Yeah you pretty much turned it into a debate.

Actually I do have basis, it's called common sense, using Blueno's attack he could easily put a ton of Doors in Luffy, most importantly he could have just a door through Luffy's, head, arms, and legs. Anyways my Kuma-door point still stands.
To Put it simply:

Are you going to

A. Fight one on one against someone who is obviously superior to you and will beat you down

B. Get into your alternate Dimension where you can fire sharp spammable cutting attacks that said enemy is vulnerable to,said enemy will also not be able to hit you with anything and will undoubtadly be worn out be constantly dodging random spammable cutting attacks.

If you chose B then you've got common sense, Blueno shoud have done that but he didn't this is also known as Plot Induced Stupidity, where the character has a way to easily beat/tie the character but doesn't because it would end the plot.

Like I said if you have a short Range attack you have to get up close and run straight towards the attacker. Kuma if he really is a cyborg could probablly calculate quite easily the area where the SHs would stop to get the hit in and then get them with his AOE Laser(that thing as an area range of at least 20 meters).

Has Luffy ever been hit, by Gaichou? The answer is no, he had to dodge for fear of his life(AKA getting cut in half, his own words..) Not only that but how many SHs actually tanked a Rankyoko? Luffy dodged all of his, Zoro took them with his sword or he dodged them(again for fear of his life best case is against Kaku Giraffe) etc. Kuma won't be able to replicate these feats because of said speed and reaction problems, the guys a tank we all know it, he's never shown a single speed feet.

Edit: Oh shit 666
 
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Absolutio

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

the guy? ah .. yes, that's me. I'm afraid I've a name. :p
Sorry, was too lazy to scroll back up and look for "the guy" who posted it.. ;)

About you people saying that the CP9 should have the long range advantage.. I'm afraid that 99% that their Rokushiki long range attacks (the flying kicks) won't work against the cyborgic body of the Pacifista.. Even Zoro's slashes can't cut through it, and they were able to cut through metal and Tekkai (which is supposed to be as strong as metal +)..
So this long range advantage isn't really an advantage.. :s
 

Onomatopoeia

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

Sorry, was too lazy to scroll back up and look for "the guy" who posted it.. ;)

About you people saying that the CP9 should have the long range advantage.. I'm afraid that 99% that their Rokushiki long range attacks (the flying kicks) won't work against the cyborgic body of the Pacifista.. Even Zoro's slashes can't cut through it, and they were able to cut through metal and Tekkai (which is supposed to be as strong as metal +)..
So this long range advantage isn't really an advantage.. :s
Zoro got Kuma to bleed at like 1/3 of his strength without using Asura...Rokushiki will do the same to Kuma-bots.

Asura cut Kuma-Bot the heck up. Franky hurt the Kuma-bots with Cuop de Vent, Nami hurt the Kuma-Bots with Thunder Lance , etc.

Yes Rokushiki will hurt the Kuma-bots, the advantage from long range is huge, it was even commented that they couldn't beat the Kuma-bot at close range.
 
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Absolutio

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

When did Zoro made Kuma bleed? O_o


Asura cut Kuma-Bot the heck up. Franky hurt the Kuma-bots with Cuop de Vent, Nami hurt the Kuma-Bots with Thunder Lance , etc.
Same with before.. There was no panel shown that the Asura actually slashed through the metal against the pacifista.
Franky's coup de vent did nothing..
And nami's lightning attacks are probably the strongest attacks in the entire crew, so it's natural that they'll hurt the pacifista.
 
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BlackHair

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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

Actually I do have basis, it's called common sense, using Blueno's attack he could easily put a ton of Doors in Luffy, most importantly he could have just a door through Luffy's, head, arms, and legs. Anyways my Kuma-door point still stands.
Then why didn't he opened multiply doors on Luffy? 'cause he can't handle much or even two at the same time. Correct me if Im wrong.

B. Get into your alternate Dimension where you can fire sharp spammable cutting attacks that said enemy is vulnerable to,said enemy will also not be able to hit you with anything and will undoubtadly be worn out be constantly dodging random spammable cutting attacks.

If you chose B then you've got common sense, Blueno shoud have done that but he didn't this is also known as Plot Induced Stupidity, where the character has a way to easily beat/tie the character but doesn't because it would end the plot.
I've no intention to go into a alternative dimension, we better discuss about Oda's work. Blueno didn't 'cause he can't! Spammable? those attacks are consuming energy, which leads the user to exhaustion. There is no way in hell that any1 could use infinity attacks, though Eminem Enel seemed like to be able to..

Anyway, I don't think CP9 could use their Rankyaku without a break, even if they should switch between them, so that at least one of them could rest, it wouldn't benefit that much. PX could easily counter power that with one of those lasers. So there is everything possible.

I have to agree with Absolutio, but only to a certain point. Imo the only notable Rankyaku's are those from LKJ (Lucci, Kaku, Jya). I think the Rankyaku of the other wouldn't hurt (much) the PX, like Brook's useless attack from above.

Like I said if you have a short Range attack you have to get up close and run straight towards the attacker. Kuma if he really is a cyborg could probablly calculate quite easily the area where the SHs would stop to get the hit in and then get them with his AOE Laser(that thing as an area range of at least 20 meters).
Well, we are talking about a whole group fighting one guy, so there is no need that everyone has to move infront of him. Sanji kicked the PX towards Zoro, just a example of what Im talking about. Also, other could distract the PX, while some1 could sneak from behind, like Nami with her lighting attack.

Has Luffy ever been hit, by Gaichou? The answer is no, he had to dodge for fear of his life(AKA getting cut in half, his own words..) Not only that but how many SHs actually tanked a Rankyoko? Luffy dodged all of his, Zoro took them with his sword or he dodged them(again for fear of his life best case is against Kaku Giraffe) etc. Kuma won't be able to replicate these feats because of said speed and reaction problems, the guys a tank we all know it, he's never shown a single speed feet.
Gaishou, Lucci only used that twice, who knows why. While we know for sure, he dodged the first one, we don't know if Luffy took or dodged the 2nd. But anyway what's the big deal about Gaishou?! Luffy tanked the strongest Rokushiki move: Rokuougan! (Luccis own words), like for 3? 4? times.. idk ..I didn't count.

Its just like u said, Zoro broke through Kakus strongest Rankyaku, so why can't it stopped by PX laser?
I believe Sanji took Jya strong Rankyaku, not sure though.

You are thinking way to much one-sided. Im pretty sure, the PX will also attack, not only CP9.

Also let me repeat, there was a lot of off panel battle. We don't know for sure why the SHs were that much exhausted. But we can assume this much: PX must have fought on a similar speed lvl like the SHs beside his lvl of endurance (tank). I guess he is more like a mobile tank not idle. Talking about common sense. For gods sake, the PX is a troop which a Admiral brought around to catch or eliminate pirates. I don't think a light-man (fast) would take some turtles with him.

Yes Rokushiki will hurt the Kuma-bots, the advantage from long range is huge, it was even commented that they couldn't beat the Kuma-bot at close range.
It was Chopper or Ussop who said that, after Chopper's and Franky's punches. Later Chopper and Brook were surprised to see Zoro's Asura, basically their comment isn't to be taken serious. The fact that the SHs beat the PX in close range proves it.

I know its ur thread, ur rules. But plz don't use PIS otherwise its not OP, more like a fanmade OP v2. Basically a One Piece where everything is possible without limit. There is no rly any sense to discuss under this circumstances. I'm personally only interested in Oda's work, not about fanmade v2. Like said, ur thread ur call.. I just posted my mere opinion.
 
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Re: CP9 vs Kuma Bots

Man Blackhair, you take all the fun out of dissecting other's arguments by doing it so well yourself...

So in short:
- Long-Range with Rokushiki is useless, Kuma-bots have a longer range laser BEAM! *_*
- I can't see Tekkai blocking a beam
- I can see Shigan breaking the metal, possibly...
- Soap ability is usless
- Doa Doa is so weird that I don't know if it's actually even useful other than for teh sneaky. If you wanted to get technical, Doa Doa when used on Luffy's face should have split his brain in half, so why you'd think Blueno would be useful against a Kuma-bot with Oda-physics is beyond me.
- I think the CP9 equivalent of the monster trio may be able to take down a Kuma-bot, and this is why I said 2 at the most.
- Strawhat's cannot beat 5, or whatever massive amount some people have made up. If SH>CP9, why would CP9 beat 5 when SH struggled with 1?
- Kuma-bot has infinite stamina. Strawhat's beat him through a combination of attacks which affected his internal and external being. Heck, Usopp and Nami's attacks were what I would say were the most effective. It's also shown that the other Supernova's may have gained an upper hand at a stage, but were defeated with one successful counter.
 
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