Discussion The Gecko Moria thread

Impel Down

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Btw, Oz had the 'power to make Moria Pirate King', if I remember correctly. That means Nightmare Luffy must have had a strength greater then the Pirate King?
No, it means Moria was wrong. He assumed that Oz, by himself, would have enough power to defeat all in his path, but he underestimated the strength of others and lost. Hell, if Moria wasn't helping Oz, the SH crew would have defeaten him themselves.

But Nightmare Luffy does have a ridiculous amount of power, yeah. With that kind of strength, if kept constant, one could probably be a top candidate for Pirate King.
 

arcrouma

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There is no magic schools in OP, just throwing it out there.

But true, it doesn't seem that there's much to Moria besides being a fat, larger-than-average human...with horns. Oh well, I guess we've seen weirder...or have we? I don't think we've seen horned humans in OP before.
horned? blueno....=p
maybe just his hair
 

Absolutio

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So what do you guys think.. Is Gecko a tragic hero, who lost all who were dear to him, turned twisted because of that and become the Zombie Raiser we know of? Or is he just an evil bastard who's using that for an excuse?
I'm going for the 2nd.. You have to be evil from the core to ruin so many people lives only to get yourself underlings whom you won't care if they die or not, because they're almost immortal.
 

Imitorar

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Yeah, agreed, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. Before he was a lazy evil jerk, now he's a twisted, lazy, eviler jerk. He just wants goons so he doesn't have to do anything, or expend effort to make REAL nakama, so he steals other people's souls (bolded for emphasis on exactly why his deeds are so heinous) just so he can fulfill his own goals without having to work, or suffer losses of friends. He is a twisted evil jerk, like almost all One Piece villains.
 

Impel Down

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If you say that Moria isn't truly evil, then you can make the same argument for many other characters.

Kuro was a hastled, tired, man, who wanted to calmly slip away and not cause anymore trouble.

Arlong was a heartbroken man who's beloved captain and friend had left him.

Bellamy's the same, except he was tricked by his old captain and then sadly betrayed by him.

And Spandam just wanted to make his daddy proud.
 

Absolutio

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If you say that Moria isn't truly evil, then you can make the same argument for many other characters.

Kuro was a hastled, tired, man, who wanted to calmly slip away and not cause anymore trouble.

Arlong was a heartbroken man who's beloved captain and friend had left him.

Bellamy's the same, except he was tricked by his old captain and then sadly betrayed by him.

And Spandam just wanted to make his daddy proud.
Lol.. Specially @ spandam..

But yea.. Every villian has his excuses.. Same with Moria.
 

firework

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Moria- tragic villain?

well, i was bored so i reread the thriller bark arc (part of it anyway) and i began to feel bad for moria (and oz too, but thats a diff story)

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/481/08/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/481/09/

here he said that his suboridnates were powerful and famous too, but that they died. It kind of reminds me of this scene:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/18/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/19/

and moria was right in his assertion about luffy's crew here:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/481/08/

when he said that luffy wasnt ready for the new world. his crew was obliterated b4 even reaching the new world. And now, at marineford, luffy (strongest of the SH pirates) is getting tossed around like fodder against the might of the new world ppl:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/558/08-09/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/561/03/

anyone else feel similar?
 

Fox666

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For sure, Shabondy Archipelago reminds me of Moria's words.
 

kkck

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I still think moria is the most under rated shichibukai. The guy has beeen seen WB commanders and holding his ground and easily killed oz jr. By now I am inclined to believe moria is a lot stronger than what people give him credit for. I would think he could easily defeat luffy if he fights seriously(luffy could barely get a hit on the guy when not being serious lol).
 

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Gecko Moria is overrated imo. Yea his got weird but powerful abilities and right now one on one he could still beat Luffy! But all in all his the worst shichibukai imo.
 

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Luffy would beat him to a pulp.

kkck said that Luffy could barely get a hit on the guy when he wasn't serious. And Luffy was? He didn't even use the gears.
I don't understand how someone can believe that Moria would beat Luffy.
 
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ZenoArmani

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Regular Moria is pretty weak physically for Shishibukai, although his shadow spears are incredibly powerful, and his shadow shields are very useful. What makes him into a wild card is that if he's fighting in sunlight, and simply cuts away someone's shadow they will turn to dust almost immediately; and that if he absorbs several hundred shadows his power and size increases beyond Oz, to the point where he can split an island as large as Thriller Park with one blow. That's a level of raw strength far beyond Luffy, or probably what we've seen from any other One Piece character for that matter, Joz included. Of course, he doesn't actually have 1000 shadows handy without special circumstances, can't hold them for long when attacked, and cutting powerful people's shadows off at normal pretty weak power isn't all that easy... So at regular size he's apparently "only" equal to Whitebeard's 10th commander, whereas Mihawk is apparently a little weaker than #3, and probably a little stronger than #5, and Blackbeard is able to defeat #2 (which isn't the same as being more dangerous than Ace to a non-DF user).
 
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Lord Rayleigh

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I must agree that Gecko Moria could be stronger than he is or that people think he is. He has some amazing powers and a great potential but it seems Oda doesn't want to give him credits : he makes him absorb shadows (for no use unlike Nightmare Luffy) instead of making him use his powers. As soon as he gets shadows in his body, Moria is just bigger and fights normally and ends up beat easily. Why the hell Oda doesn't let him use shadows to attack or to defend ? The first time Luffy and Moria fought, Moria manipulated the shadow to prevent Luffy from hitting him and to attack ; that Moria was definitely a very strong opponent and I asked myself at that time how Luffy could win against such a strong and untouchable pirate.
When Oda let him fight by this way, Moria is incredible : at MHQ, he killed Odz Jr quickly and easily despite his size. With his classical powers - manipulate the shadow - Moria could be as strong as Magellan : touching the shadow could be fatal as poison is deadly : a body being totally cut or pierce by shadow does not last long.
Yet, Oda never let Moria use that kind of power : that worths a :facepalm
It is as if a logia does not have the right to use his element to attack : Moria never use his shadow. He just uses his extra powers : create zombies, absorb shadows and for no use. The worst is probably that by letting Moria absorb shadows, Oda does not make Moria be tough, strong physically : Jimbei manages to give him a single punch that makes him fly away despite the fact the shadows are supposed to strenghten the body. That is very disappointing knowing the potential of Moria.
 
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kkck

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Luffy would beat him to a pulp.

kkck said that Luffy could barely get a hit on the guy when he wasn't serious. And Luffy was? He didn't even use the gears.
I don't understand how someone can believe that Moria would beat Luffy.
Even though luffy did not use gears, he still tried his best in that form and all he got was a lucky shot. On the other hand, moria did not even try in the least. Gears make luffy many times stronger but IMHO moria would have an edge if he takes the fight seriously.

The only reason luffy managed to beat moria before was that moria took damage from nightmare luffy and absorbed more shadows than what he could handle making him a raging lunatic bulls eye. On top of that, luffy is merely a rookie, the lowest possible level he could have. On the other hand moria is someone who even the world goverment acknowledges could make a difference in the war. Even if moria is the lesser of the shichibukai he is still someone a rookie could not defeat in a serious match with no outside interference.
 

ZenoArmani

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Well, it's probably Moria's lazy and petty sadist personality that makes him lose to opponents he shouldn't. I mean think about what we know about him:

1) Shadow shields alone are enough to easily avoid non-gear Luffy while lying down and not trying.
2) Shadow spears can kill almost anyone in the series in one blow.
3) Can turn people into dust by cutting off their shadows.
4) Almost fought Kaidou to a draw when in his prime, and without access to a lot of shadows.
5) Increases physical power in proportion to the amount of shadows he absorbs. With a 1000 he's probably the physically strongest character in the series, but weak to attacks.

Meaning, if he got back in shape, absorbed 1000 shadows, and used all his regular tricks he would be one of the most dangerous people in the world, but he doesn't and keeps being an underhanded cheap shot, since he's lazy and likes to mess with people, even though he'd be more efficient if he wasn't.
 

kkck

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I don't think moria could control 1000 shadows even if at the time he was at full strength. It just seems to be way too much. IMHO he would be better of absorbing a considerably smaller number(an amount he could control without turning him into a giant target). Even then, I think he is strong enough even without using shadows.
 

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Well, it's probably Moria's lazy and petty sadist personality that makes him lose to opponents he shouldn't. I mean think about what we know about him:

1) Shadow shields alone are enough to easily avoid non-gear Luffy while lying down and not trying.
2) Shadow spears can kill almost anyone in the series in one blow.
3) Can turn people into dust by cutting off their shadows.
4) Almost fought Kaidou to a draw when in his prime, and without access to a lot of shadows.
5) Increases physical power in proportion to the amount of shadows he absorbs. With a 1000 he's probably the physically strongest character in the series, but weak to attacks.
Lot of people in One Piece have attacks that can kill people easily. The problem is actually landing the blow on the opponent.
And Moria can't just cut people's shadows like it's nothing, especially not in a bigger battle. It takes some time. He can probably do it only to weaklings.
We don't know exactly how he fared against Kaidou, and we don't know how many shadows he had at his disposal.


The only reason luffy managed to beat moria before was that moria took damage from nightmare luffy and absorbed more shadows than what he could handle making him a raging lunatic bulls eye. On top of that, luffy is merely a rookie, the lowest possible level he could have. On the other hand moria is someone who even the world goverment acknowledges could make a difference in the war. Even if moria is the lesser of the shichibukai he is still someone a rookie could not defeat in a serious match with no outside interference.
Moria is lot more dangerous when he has allies and minions.
But claiming that Luffy would lose against him in one on one fight is just plain ridiculous. Luffy is stronger and faster and has more stamina. Gear 2 would be enough for him.
It doesn't matter that Luffy is a rookie. He was rookie when he beat the shit out of Crocodile.
 
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bittman

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I used to agree with kkck, always through everyone over-rated Moria and that Shadows Asgard was a stupid move by an insane man who had lost everything...

...and then he did it because Jimbei splashed some water his way...and then lost...

Moria's one of many who "Could/Should/Would be strong", but only in our minds and not in Oda's work. More like, Moria has an awesome power, but personally he's nothing special. If someone mentally stronger had this ability (let's say Robin), she'd show us how it can really be used.
 

kkck

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Moria is lot more dangerous when he has allies and minions.
But claiming that Luffy would lose against him in one on one fight is just plain ridiculous. Luffy is stronger and faster and has more stamina. Gear 2 would be enough for him.
It doesn't matter that Luffy is a rookie. He was rookie when he beat the shit out of Crocodile.
We have no real demonstration of how strong or fast moria is though so I doubt we can make a vaguely accurate comparison. Only thing that has ever happened is that moria ran into the forest and luffy could not catch him(luffy did not use gear 2 though) and then moria switch places with his shadow. I do want to point out moria did not need allies or minions to take out oz in one hit. I think moria has a lot more to show.

The only reason luffy got to defeat crocodile was that crocodile did not kill him the first 2 battles. It took 3 battles in order for luffy to get lucky enough to stumble into crocodiles weakness(note that he was lucky enough that crocodile did not make sure he was dead the first 2 battles). If luffy and crocodile fought now, I would think crocodile would have the advantage but that is kind of off-topic.
 
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