Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Firepower]

If you want to call the hand-clapping technique hax, then that's fine with me but usually hax magic can be countered. If you ask me, Kyōka's magic is not that hax. I mean you really can't kill someone strong by taking away their senses and increasing pain receptors. Besides, I found it quite contradicting, the fact that Kyōka took away Erza's senses, yet she can still feel pain. If anything, she countered herself.

Going back to Jacob, even Happy was able to stop him from completing his hand-clapping attack. So by blowing off Jacob's hands, he shouldn't be able to "transport" anyone. Again, another weakness or counter. Mages like Erza, Natsu, and more can still attack if one of their body parts are gone. This is what differentiates from an average wizard to a strong wizard.

There is really only one Spriggan with a potentially hax magic which is Brandish. She can pinpoint an object inside an object and decrease its size without affecting anything else. Even the way she does it is unknown. I'm sure there is a counter to her magic but it is probably really hard to do so even if you know her magic or tricks. That could be the reason why Hiro Mashima hasn't put her into real action yet. Anyways, that can be discussed another time.

Mest's abilities never struck me as hax magic. Teleporting and changing memories to me does not seem worthy of defeating any opponent especially high-tier mages. Assuming Mest changes the memories of his enemies so that they can't remember how to use their magic attacks, a strong adversary would be able to beat Mest through CQC. Every person has a weakness...

I still disagree about Dimaria and I'm probably the only advocate for her immense powers. From how it was described, it seems Dimaria stops time by "clicking" her teeth. Like I said, every magic has a counter. By breaking Dimaria's teeth, I would assume that could render her magic useless. As for her Takeover: God Soul, I don't see it as getting help from an outside source at all. In fact, there are plenty of other characters who I can argue and say they have gotten help from someone else. All of Dimaria's powers were legitimate in my eyes and the fight would have ended well had Ultear never appeared and given Chelia, Third Origin. But talking about Dimaria's stats, she is very powerful. Her attack power is somewhat inconclusive as she was against weak opponents. That beam may have been able to pierce through stronger characters, it was never proven. The fact that we saw her put out such high levels of energy during her transformation and fight with Kagura tells us something. Not to mention, standing still meant that she was confident and strong enough to keep her ground. With Dimaria seemingly having high defense, average attack, average speed, average intelligence, and high magical energy, I can't see her as a low-tier Spriggan besides the nonsense of Third Origin involved. I was never a fan of that battle. Wendy and Chelia should have lost badly.

Relating to the topic above, I'm not saying I don't want Ultear to come back. I really do hope she returns again, but not with some made-up powers like Third Origin, which is in fact, a hax magic. That is why Hiro Mashima had to put such a restriction on it like losing your magic for all eternity afterwards. I can go more into Third Origin but I'll try to keep this as short as possible. Back in GMG, Ultear never mentioned about TO. Instead, she gave Team Natsu, Second Origin. From then on, the Eclipse Arc took place and she became irrelevant to the series. Without any training, how did she acquire the power to give someone TO unless she already had such powers. But don't you think she would have at least talked about it when she gave Team Natsu SO? Second Origin was legit because it was explained that every wizard had a hidden "second container" that can be accessed. Similar to the psychology of the brain. There is research indicating that parts of the brain are not active and can be unlocked by certain a stimulus. On the other hand, what is Third Origin? A hidden "third container"? See where I'm going? So if SO can help a mage catch up 7 years, just imagine TO. Future Rogue destroys GMG Natsu and you can already see the difference in powers.

Anyways, if Igneel being inside Natsu did indeed feed him power, that would be hax to the very max. But because that is not the case, then I am okay with it. Lucy doesn't have an Takeover so she shouldn't be able to do what Dimaria did. If Lucy did, then gaining power from her Celestial Spirits would be fine. Her Star Dress pretty much has similar effects to Takeover anyways except her Celestial Spirits cannot match the God, Chronos. Again, Chelia at her prime is OP. Nobody may agree with me but I see it from a different perspective and she can be a real problem or threat with such power. The question here is how much power can Chelia achieve on her own? Considering that there are mages who don't even reach their prime at such an old age, Chelia's power can grow immensely.



I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean. If you're referring to my comment that Natsu is behind Wendy if he hasn't achieved Dragon Force at will, what I meant was not necessarily in power. The fact that he doesn't have the capability to perform such a feat that Wendy can easily achieve makes him less of a mage, especially since it has to do with training. Meaning he didn't train hard enough or learn what he was supposed to learn by now. However, he clearly trained a lot already which is why I can't imagine him being unable to go DF.

How do you counter being sent to a dimension if most mages don't have dimension traveling magic? How do you move when time is stopped if you don't have time magic? Both are hacks. You talk about stopping Jacob by not allowing him to clap his hands, but that's just the trigger to activate his magic. Getting close to him or Dimaria to prevent it is not likely unless they have Acnologia speed. Easy to say just put something in between Jacob's hands or blow his hands up, but the same can be said about Dimaria. If you could put your hand in her mouth to stop her teeth from stopping time or blow her head off than time magic is useless. What's the difference between clapping hands or biting teeth together? Nothing. If something can be put in between hands or teeth they can be stopped. Same thing with blowing them up. But getting there is not likey. Therefore both are hacks.

Kyoka's ability to remove senses does not kill anyone, neither does stopping time, it's the advantage they get for these hacks. How does anyone fight what they can't see, hear, smell, and taste(not that anyone tastes their enemies lol). Sure you can argue that they can still feel because they feel pain, but that is actually bad too. If all senses were really taken away then they wouldn't feel pain. Jacob makes himself invisible to sight and smell. Not sure about sound. Kyoka makes everything you see gone, along with hearing and smelling. All three are hacks. Mest might not win even if he erases memories of how they use magic because he hasn't shown attack power yet. Regardless, if he can prevent them from remembering any magic that is a huge advantage, just like any other hack.

Sure Dimaria has takeover. I won't argue anymore that it's not her power, possessed or not. How much skill do you think it takes to avoid a laser. Hades almost killed Wendy doing the same thing. Future Rogue might not have used a laser, but he pierced Future Lucy too. Dimaria is no different. She's just stronger the Hades or Future Rogue. These attacks are used on mages with little defensive skills to dodge or counter back. The difference between Dimaria when compared to Hades and future Rogue is that the two had more than lasers. They demonstrated a whole arsenal of magic, physical abilities and skills. Dimaria was a statue.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought third origin was future strength, as in the full strength Chelia could achieve if she had time, years to mature and develop. Not extra power, but her potential power. That's why you are rating Dimaria too high by rating Chelia up there too. Chelia had the potential to be very strong if she never lost her magic. Third origin showed that power she would have achieved. If you are saying Chelia was so ferociously powerful then you believe her full potential exceeds the power of many mages right now, because I thought third origin gives the individual the full power they could have gotten in the future, but are getting it now. Not extra power that they can't meet in the future. Not like they turned into Acno or something they are not. You might be impressed with an angry statue pointing finger lasers, but I'm not with good reason. Jacob has hacks just like Dimaria that can be stopped the same way. At least Jacob showed great control over his emotions and not like some arrogant chick upset because someone is trying to fight her or because they can move in frozen time and hit her. Attitude wise arrogance proves nothing. Magic wise they are both hax. How exceed Happy got in between Jacob's hands was by luck. That was a bit of comedy because that was not planned. He just got back along with ft members and happened to be there. There's nothing more special about Dimaria's hax than Jacob's hax magic.

 

[~Charging Lightning~]

Jacob was holding back the whole time. He could do a lot more with Stealth than his pathetic hand-to-handcombat. Natsu couldn't defeat Jacob on his own, even if he was outside Fairy Tail. Thanks to Lucy, Jacob couldn't camouflage himself. Thanks to Lucy, his Transport was disabled. Natsu is strong, but his intelligence is far to low.

You're making excuses for Jacob. He didn't only use his hand to hand combat when he was in his stealth mode. He also used a lot of his weapons when he was invisible. Outside of that, we have no clue what else he can do with stealth, so saying that he held back is a baseless assumption. With Natsu, it's different because we DO KNOW what he can do, and we know for a fact the he did hold back unlike Jacob. Lucy only stopped his camoflage once, and it was irrelevant in the long run since Jacob took down Leo and resumed his stealth almost immediately. It's true that Lucy stopped his transport, but I don't see what that has to do with Jacob beating Natsu in a one v one outside of the guild.... I also don't see what Natsu's intelligence has to do with Jacob beating him.

 

[BluePegasus]

You're making excuses for Jacob. He didn't only use his hand to hand combat when he was in his stealth mode. He also used a lot of his weapons when he was invisible. Outside of that, we have no clue what else he can do with stealth, so saying that he held back is a baseless assumption. With Natsu, it's different because we DO KNOW what he can do, and we know for a fact the he did hold back unlike Jacob. Lucy only stopped his camoflage once, and it was irrelevant in the long run since Jacob took down Leo and resumed his stealth almost immediately. It's true that Lucy stopped his transport, but I don't see what that has to do with Jacob beating Natsu in a one v one outside of the guild.... I also don't see what Natsu's intelligence has to do with Jacob beating him.

No, I'm the only one here who faces truth lol. It's just a fact that Natsu didn't solo a Spriggan and didn't oneshot a Spriggan. Everyone who says this is just overpowering Natsu and giving him credits he didn't earn.

We know what he can do with Stealth. He can erase, vanisch, see and make unseen. In other words, he can make things, himself and others invisible. Since he was only kicking Lucy and Natsu once he was invisible, it's pretty clear he was holding back because he could stab them with a knive.

Thanks to Lucy, Jacob could be seen. Thanks to Lucy, Makarov came back so he could attack Jacob. Lucy's intelligence helped Natsu.

We had seen What Happened to His Knives When It Touched Natsu.It had just Melted.There is no proof He was Holding Back. On The Contrary He had Goven Every thing.So Even if He had Thrown More Knives It would All Have Melted.

Well, than he could throw something that won't melt? There are more possible ways to kill someone.

 

[Arjuna]

No, I'm the only one here who faces truth lol. It's just a fact that Natsu didn't solo a Spriggan and didn't oneshot a Spriggan. Everyone who says this is just overpowering Natsu and giving him credits he didn't earn.

We know what he can do with Stealth. He can erase, vanisch, see and make unseen. In other words, he can make things, himself and others invisible. Since he was only kicking Lucy and Natsu once he was invisible, it's pretty clear he was holding back because he could stab them with a knive.

Thanks to Lucy, Jacob could be seen. Thanks to Lucy, Makarov came back so he could attack Jacob. Lucy's intelligence helped Natsu.



Well, than he could throw something that won't melt? There are more possible ways to kill someone.

No one is saying Natsu One Shotted a Spriggan.In The Current situation it would not have been possible for Natsu to defeat Jacob without the help of Lucy and Makarov.Everyone is saying Natsu could have One Shotted Jacob if He had fought Him in The Open Ground.Jacob's ability is making Stealthy attacks from behind.His Weapons are Knives(He doesn't have anything better than this in His Arsenal otherwise Hiro would have shown it).By saying Jacob had been Holding back and He had better weapons it is truly turning away from Truth.So if Natsu used FDKM Then Jacob would be burning and His Knives would have melted as we have seen.

 

[~Charging Lightning~]

No, I'm the only one here who faces truth lol. It's just a fact that Natsu didn't solo a Spriggan and didn't oneshot a Spriggan. Everyone who says this is just overpowering Natsu and giving him credits he didn't earn.

We know what he can do with Stealth. He can erase, vanisch, see and make unseen. In other words, he can make things, himself and others invisible. Since he was only kicking Lucy and Natsu once he was invisible, it's pretty clear he was holding back because he could stab them with a knive.

Thanks to Lucy, Jacob could be seen. Thanks to Lucy, Makarov came back so he could attack Jacob. Lucy's intelligence helped Natsu.

I never said Natsu soloed/one shot Jacob, so not sure what your point is. I already told you that Jacob did use weapons when he was invisible, so I don't see why you're still stating that he was only kicking Lucy and Natsu. But, if you still don't believe me.....

Spoiler

Spoiler

In those panels, Jacob was throwing invisible knives at them, which disproves your assumption that he was only using CQC agaisnt Natsu and Lucy.

Lucy and her intelligence did indeed help Natsu and the guild, but you still aren't taking into consideration that Natsu was extremely restricted because he was in the guild. This was stated like twice over the course of the last 2 chapters bro. In a fight where he isn't restricted to going all out, he wouldn't need Lucy's intelligence to overcome Jacob's Stealth.

 

[BluePegasus]

I never said Natsu soloed/one shot Jacob, so not sure what your point is. I already told you that Jacob did use weapons when he was invisible, so I don't see why you're still stating that he was only kicking Lucy and Natsu. But, if you still don't believe me.....

Spoiler

Spoiler

In those panels, Jacob was throwing invisible knives at them, which disproves your assumption that he was only using CQC agaisnt Natsu and Lucy.

Lucy and her intelligence did indeed help Natsu and the guild, but you still aren't taking into consideration that Natsu was extremely restricted because he was in the guild. This was stated like twice over the course of the last 2 chapters bro. In a fight where he isn't restricted to going all out, he wouldn't need Lucy's intelligence to overcome Jacob's Stealth.

He used weapons but he only gave them a pathetic slice, while he could also stab them. His magic can do a LOT more instead of what he showed us, it's a fact because we know what Stealth can do. His magic is really hax, but just like Di Maria it wasn't used like it 'could' have been used.

Tell me, how would Natsu overcome Jacob's magic. He really need someone as Lucy or Freed to help him out, or he will be killed directly.

 

[Kiki]

Pretty sure she did, she said she would have to resort to the old fashion of knocking them out. If she could knock them all out with Macro she would.

Imho she didn't, coz I consider she didn't drop sweat at all and was smiling when she said that. Making countless soldiers under her Macro's control is more difficult than making a wizard under her Macro's control. So she chose to use easier way to clean up the mess. Even Erza was easily under Macro's control. Plus 4 Exceeds. Alvarez Mira is just featless.

I do agree with you that Gajeel won't be one-shotted by her. It'd just make him look pathetically weak, which is not possible.

 

[~Charging Lightning~]

He used weapons but he only gave them a pathetic slice, while he could also stab them. His magic can do a LOT more instead of what he showed us, it's a fact because we know what Stealth can do. His magic is really hax, but just like Di Maria it wasn't used like it 'could' have been used.

Tell me, how would Natsu overcome Jacob's magic. He really need someone as Lucy or Freed to help him out, or he will be killed directly.

Ok then, why don't you share with me what else Jacob could have done outside of him using CQC and throwing weapons with his Stealth magic.

Natsu could burn everything around him. Him powering up alone causes immense pain to Jacob, so it shouldn't be too hard for him to release a lot of his fire around him to damage Jacob. That alone makes Jacob's stealth magic virtually useless against Natsu.

 

[Axiomus]

Basically the only way I see Jacob beating Natsu was if he managed to catch him with the teleporting clap. I don't think Natsu can solo Jacob merely for the fact that he doesn't have a counter. Lucy was necessary to keep Jacob from just clapping everything away.

However if this was a straight up fight and Natsu didn't care about collateral damage, then Natsu would just enter FDK mode. FDK mode evaporated a lake, and Jacob started burning up just by being near Natsu. Jacob doesn't have the ability to deal enough damage to take out Natsu, and all it would take is for Natsu to land 1 clean hit to take out Jacob. Like if this battle didn't take place in the guild, it would have been over last chapter with that punch he landed on Jacob.

 

[~Charging Lightning~]

Basically the only way I see Jacob beating Natsu was if he managed to catch him with the teleporting clap. I don't think Natsu can solo Jacob merely for the fact that he doesn't have a counter. Lucy was necessary to keep Jacob from just clapping everything away.

However if this was a straight up fight and Natsu didn't care about collateral damage, then Natsu would just enter FDK mode. FDK mode evaporated a lake, and Jacob started burning up just by being near Natsu. Jacob doesn't have the ability to deal enough damage to take out Natsu, and all it would take is for Natsu to land 1 clean hit to take out Jacob. Like if this battle didn't take place in the guild, it would have been over last chapter with that punch he landed on Jacob.

^This exactly. Well said bro. If we're discussing Jacob's teleport hax then Jacob could potentially beat Natsu if he's able to teleport him before Natsu one shots him (though we don't know how Jacob damages Natsu with his teleportation). However, if they were to engage in a full on brawl, Natsu would have decimated Jacob if he went all out.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Imho she didn't, coz I consider she didn't drop sweat at all and was smiling when she said that. Making countless soldiers under her Macro's control is more difficult than making a wizard under her Macro's control. So she chose to use easier way to clean up the mess. Even Erza was easily under Macro's control. Plus 4 Exceeds. Alvarez Mira is just featless.

I do agree with you that Gajeel won't be one-shotted by her. It'd just make him look pathetically weak, which is not possible.

Sh doesn't need to drop sweat in order for her to go full force, not to mention there was like 30 fodder at best, controlling like 30 fodder isn't harder than controlling someone on Gajeel's level. Erza was battle worn and tired when it happened not to mention Erza isn't current Gajeel, to say she can control Gajeel is NLF.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 1, 2016 ---

When couldn't she use Macro?

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 31, 2016 ---

He don't need to come close to his opponents, he can just throw an invisible knive or something. He didn't, but he could. So he was holding back.

She couldn't knock out every fodder with Macro during the 1st invasion.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 1, 2016 ---

Ok that Laxus comparison was a bad example. Natsu was never as strong as Erza until the avatar arc. He's probably stronger than her now. She said he was as strong as her, but they never fought to find out if it's true or not. Regardless if they fought or if who would have won, as long as they looked evenly matched it would be true. But it never happened. Recently watched the Edolas arc. Natsu and Gray were afraid of Erza Knightwalker, but it turned out to be Erza Scarlet that was dressed as the other. They couldn't believe Scarlet lost, but later knew it was actually her and not Knightwalker. The way they see Erza obviously means a lot. Anyway that was the past.

Erza fought Bacchus many times, none of them we've seen. Erza reappears 7 years later, everyone got stronger except those from Tenrou. Erza has not fought or seen Bacchus since then until they enter the gmg. How do I know this? She was shocked by how much he improved during the gmg. The same way she was shocked seeing Kagura's abilities. Jura would not chop Elfman the way he did Orga because of the lizard armor protecting him. Bacchus own metal armor was shattering into pieces from hitting a completely still Elfman. So I wouldn't underestimate his strength that much. It's true that Bacchus does not have swords, weapons, or magic to smash, cut, or blow up stuff. His magic isn't the destructive kind. What he lacks in destructive magic, he makes up for with skills. He is one of the smartest fighters, not getting hit, has unreadable offense and defense, physical strength and speed worthy of s class. The type of magic what's lacking a bit. But he was shattering his own armor, so he is strong. The lizard armor is just that much stronger than regular armor. Against hand to hand combat mages, that was advantageous. If anything Bacchus could have simply not hit Elfman either. I don't know anyone who can transform into something that hard. Everyone one else fights with normal skin and bone, so they won't be able to take his attacks. His physical strength he played around stomped the chariot which sent the other chariots jumping too. Erza was freaked by that strength. It's the form of magic that is lacking. Bacchus comes off as a joke, a drunk, but fears or no feats you should be able to see his strength from performance. You wouldn't say Lyon had a draw with Kagura means they were of equal strength. If there was no time limit, which Lyon used to play jokes on Milana, he'd have lost. The time saved him. Kagura was a millimeter or a second away from smashing him with her sheathed sword. Same way Minerva caught Kagura off guard when Kgura was fighting Erza. That does not mean Minerva is stronger than Kagura for defeating her. Erza did all the work.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 30, 2016 ---

Why is Minerva rated so high? All she did was beat the crap out of Lucy in the gmg. She lost to a crippled Erza, Kyoka takes her by force and turns her into a demon to give her more strength, Minerva fights Erza when Kyoka had to leave, Erza snaps her out of it and is dragging Minerva around to find the face control room.

Erza herself says Natsu was as strong as her in the Phantom arc, she doesn't need to fight him to know that. You think Erza can't compare Natsu's strength without them fighting? Why are you bringing up Edolas?



Erza fought Bacchus many times, most likely when around the time the series started or even before that. My point is when Bacchus seemingly fought Erza she was shit tier compared to current power rankings. Erza was surprised at his power? And........That just means Bacchus had improved which is natural because it's been seven years that doesn't imply he's as strong as you're making him out to be. Jura could chop Elfman, that Lizard armor wasn't impressive enough to the point where Elfman would survive a chop from Jura. Breaking metal armor isn't a big achievement in Fairy Tail sorry to break it to you, Bacchus lacked the power to break through a mid- tier's defense but yet you place him stronger than Natsu and co. Bacchus himself is a strong fighter, and in no way is he weak, you say people with normal skin won't be able to take his attacks but where's the evidence to back this? You saw one slight reaction from Erza and started overestimating him like hell, destroying a chariot isn't as impressive as it seems Natsu has been destroying buildings since the start of the show. Lyon was being dominated by Kagura but guess what, neither folks were incapacitated, unlike Bacchus. The situations you brought up aren't even comparable.

 

[Firepower]

Sh doesn't need to drop sweat in order for her to go full force, not to mention there was like 30 fodder at best, controlling like 30 fodder isn't harder than controlling someone on Gajeel's level. Erza was battle worn and tired when it happened not to mention Erza isn't current Gajeel, to say she can control Gajeel is NLF.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 1, 2016 ---

She couldn't knock out every fodder with Macro during the 1st invasion.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 1, 2016 ---

Erza herself says Natsu was as strong as her in the Phantom arc, she doesn't need to fight him to know that. You think Erza can't compare Natsu's strength without them fighting? Why are you bringing up Edolas?



Erza fought Bacchus many times, most likely when around the time the series started or even before that. My point is when Bacchus seemingly fought Erza she was shit tier compared to current power rankings. Erza was surprised at his power? And........That just means Bacchus had improved which is natural because it's been seven years that doesn't imply he's as strong as you're making him out to be. Jura could chop Elfman, that Lizard armor wasn't impressive enough to the point where Elfman would survive a chop from Jura. Breaking metal armor isn't a big achievement in Fairy Tail sorry to break it to you, Bacchus lacked the power to break through a mid- tier's defense but yet you place him stronger than Natsu and co. Bacchus himself is a strong fighter, and in no way is he weak, you say people with normal skin won't be able to take his attacks but where's the evidence to back this? You saw one slight reaction from Erza and started overestimating him like hell, destroying a chariot isn't as impressive as it seems Natsu has been destroying buildings since the start of the show. Lyon was being dominated by Kagura but guess what, neither folks were incapacitated, unlike Bacchus. The situations you brought up aren't even comparable.

lol You're one to talk. The only evidence you have of Natsu being as strong as Erza since the Pahntom arc is that she said that he is as strong as her, even though he keeps getting whooped by her. Before the phantom arc was the Galuna island arc where Natsu fought Zalty which was actually Ultear in disguise. Erza was not around to see his fight and it wasn't even anything special. You tell me why Erza believes in the next arc that Natsu is as strong as her? Because he's always been scared of her because she would beat his ass when he's acting up. If you ask me that's just family love she got for Natsu believing he can do things. Why did I bring up the Edolas arc? That is still fresh in my mind after watching the anime recently, and when Natsu and Gray saw her and dressed in Knightwalker's clothes they were both stunned that the titania lost. That's one example. Second example would be how Erza decided to fight all 100 monsters in the gmg. Everyone was shocked yet, Laxus Gray and Natsu believed she could do it. If you read the mood at the time that seemed almost impossible. Laxus said something about just watch and enjoy, acknowledging her, not being the same guy who used to be mean before getting kicked out of ft.

You cannot fill in the holes of the unknown with wishful thinking. No one knew that Erza has fought Bacchus many times. You make claims that it was long ago, but no one knows that. Stop making stuff up. When was Erza ever in a shit tier? She was dominant over Natsu and Gray since they were small kids. Where do you come up with this stuff?

You need to see and feel what's going on in the story. During the gmg when Bacchus was first introduced, Erza made it clear that he is strong knowing how many times they fought she can guage that. She didn't talk like "Oh it's you I haven't seen you for a long time. Wow!" Okay see how the story is going. Stomping chariots is no feat, but the way he did it with such ease and power did surprise Erza on how much stronger he got. Not because he got much better yet is far weaker than her. No one gets surprised by that unless it's a kid that they haven't seen in a while that got stronger, like if it were Wendy that Srza hasn't seen for a while. For someone to be a close rival before and seeing how easily he did something that shocks her that means something. But you talk like Erza can guage Natsu who she is usually on jobs with, yet is busy fighting someone else that she isn't there to see Natsu. Here she is gauging Bacchus by what he is doing. I thought you said Erza didn't need to actually fight Natsu to know his strength.

When your own metal armor is breaking off because of your speed and power on impact, you yourself should be able to understand the power of those attacks and how strong lizard armor is, from how Bacchus armor was breaking into pieces. I do consider Elfman at least above average, but nothing spectacular, but his lizard armor defense was not mid tier defense. How strong is lizard armor? I don't know but obviously much stronger than regular metal that wasn't even being hit, yet shattered into pieces. All guilds were watching the fight between Elfman and Bacchus. Erza never said that she surpassed him. She was watching the fight knowing what Elfman was up against. No one though Elfman had a chance because of Erza's past with Bacchus. Gray was watching the fight and said he can see why Erza had a hard time in their fights. Gray can currently see his abilities. He got shocked to hear that he wasn't even near his full strength yet because he didn't drink at all. You did not hear Erza saying anything like,"Worry not, those fights with Bacchus were long ago. It wouldn't be the same today." Nothing like that was said so as to prove that Elfman got stronger. Nothing like that. Instead she was surprised by his speed and movement, seeing how he flew past Elfman so quickly yet land 7 hits in that one go. Mira did say that lizard armor is good against hand to hand combat. Therefore if someone doesn't have armor stronger than the one that Bacchus wears than they would get hurt. I wouldn't say Bacchus lacks physical strength. He was tossing Elfman around pretty easily and effortlessly before drinking to go full strength. Don't forget along with his speed and power, he is one of the smartest fighters and hardest to predict. Bacchus is a true s class Mage who at that time was stronger than the three ds mages you mentioned.

You tell me what is better evidence. Erza saying Natsu is as strong as her during the phantom arc, or Erza actually fighting Bacchus and can say that they are even? Give an answer without filling the unknown with wishful thinking.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

How do you counter being sent to a dimension if most mages don't have dimension traveling magic? How do you move when time is stopped if you don't have time magic? Both are hacks. You talk about stopping Jacob by not allowing him to clap his hands, but that's just the trigger to activate his magic. Getting close to him or Dimaria to prevent it is not likely unless they have Acnologia speed. Easy to say just put something in between Jacob's hands or blow his hands up, but the same can be said about Dimaria. If you could put your hand in her mouth to stop her teeth from stopping time or blow her head off than time magic is useless. What's the difference between clapping hands or biting teeth together? Nothing. If something can be put in between hands or teeth they can be stopped. Same thing with blowing them up. But getting there is not likey. Therefore both are hacks.

Well, I guess if that is what you think, then it is reasonable. I just don't see Jacob's magic that hax until I have proof of it. Jacob kept talking about how he could kill everyone that he trapped but he never did... I call that hype and just a bluff until feats are actually shown to prove it. Something that Jacob could have done to make it more believable was slowly kill all 111 Fairy Tail members one-by-one. That would spark rage in Natsu and make Mavis feel pressured in which suspense will be created. Instead, Jacob didn't perform such feats and ended up being defeated after a lot of talking.

Kyoka's ability to remove senses does not kill anyone, neither does stopping time, it's the advantage they get for these hacks. How does anyone fight what they can't see, hear, smell, and taste(not that anyone tastes their enemies lol). Sure you can argue that they can still feel because they feel pain, but that is actually bad too. If all senses were really taken away then they wouldn't feel pain. Jacob makes himself invisible to sight and smell. Not sure about sound. Kyoka makes everything you see gone, along with hearing and smelling. All three are hacks. Mest might not win even if he erases memories of how they use magic because he hasn't shown attack power yet. Regardless, if he can prevent them from remembering any magic that is a huge advantage, just like any other hack.

By removing all of a person's senses, they probably feel somewhat numb or nothing. Because it doesn't kill anyone, I can't see it would able to defeat an opponent. Anybody durable enough should be able to withstand enough pain to continue to fight. Sure, it may make them a lot weaker than they would have been but although someone like Gildarts was being constantly stomped on by Bluenote when his magic power was drained from the Tenrou Turee, he was still able to destroy Bluenote immediately after he gained power again despite all the damages and injuries he got beforehand.

Sure Dimaria has takeover. I won't argue anymore that it's not her power, possessed or not. How much skill do you think it takes to avoid a laser. Hades almost killed Wendy doing the same thing. Future Rogue might not have used a laser, but he pierced Future Lucy too. Dimaria is no different. She's just stronger the Hades or Future Rogue. These attacks are used on mages with little defensive skills to dodge or counter back. The difference between Dimaria when compared to Hades and future Rogue is that the two had more than lasers. They demonstrated a whole arsenal of magic, physical abilities and skills. Dimaria was a statue.

I guess we just disagree on Dimaria's power then. I really believe she was powerful just based on her feats, but if you don't think so, then I don't think I'd be able to convince you. To me, her laser beam was quite deadly but even so, she had plenty of other attacks that were strong. Like I said, the fact that she stood still, doesn't really indicate anything here because she already proved to have high defense from not getting phased by an attack from DF Wendy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought third origin was future strength, as in the full strength Chelia could achieve if she had time, years to mature and develop. Not extra power, but her potential power. That's why you are rating Dimaria too high by rating Chelia up there too. Chelia had the potential to be very strong if she never lost her magic. Third origin showed that power she would have achieved. If you are saying Chelia was so ferociously powerful then you believe her full potential exceeds the power of many mages right now, because I thought third origin gives the individual the full power they could have gotten in the future, but are getting it now. Not extra power that they can't meet in the future. Not like they turned into Acno or something they are not. You might be impressed with an angry statue pointing finger lasers, but I'm not with good reason. Jacob has hacks just like Dimaria that can be stopped the same way. At least Jacob showed great control over his emotions and not like some arrogant chick upset because someone is trying to fight her or because they can move in frozen time and hit her. Attitude wise arrogance proves nothing. Magic wise they are both hax. How exceed Happy got in between Jacob's hands was by luck. That was a bit of comedy because that was not planned. He just got back along with ft members and happened to be there. There's nothing more special about Dimaria's hax than Jacob's hax magic.

Although we have the same definitions for Third Origin, I guess we just can't agree on Chelia's strength or Dimaria's strength. Even though you are right that characters who play passive usually have low defense, Dimaria was able to prove that otherwise when she tanked all non-TO attacks like they were nothing and almost killed Wendy as well.

 

[ArthurDayne]

Villains:
-Acnologia
-Zeref
-
-August
-Nineheart(Just portrayal)
-Invel,Serena
-Wahl,Dimaria,Brandish
-Ajeel,Jacob
Good guys
-Natsu(DF or FDK)
-Jellal(hype)
-Laxus/Natsu(current FDK)
-TO Chelia
-Erza/Gray/Gajeel
-Makarov/Gildarts
-Lucy/DF Wendy
-The rest
Just how I see things

 

[Firepower]

Well, I guess if that is what you think, then it is reasonable. I just don't see Jacob's magic that hax until I have proof of it. Jacob kept talking about how he could kill everyone that he trapped but he never did... I call that hype and just a bluff until feats are actually shown to prove it. Something that Jacob could have done to make it more believable was slowly kill all 111 Fairy Tail members one-by-one. That would spark rage in Natsu and make Mavis feel pressured in which suspense will be created. Instead, Jacob didn't perform such feats and ended up being defeated after a lot of talking.



By removing all of a person's senses, they probably feel somewhat numb or nothing. Because it doesn't kill anyone, I can't see it would able to defeat an opponent. Anybody durable enough should be able to withstand enough pain to continue to fight. Sure, it may make them a lot weaker than they would have been but although someone like Gildarts was being constantly stomped on by Bluenote when his magic power was drained from the Tenrou Turee, he was still able to destroy Bluenote immediately after he gained power again despite all the damages and injuries he got beforehand.



I guess we just disagree on Dimaria's power then. I really believe she was powerful just based on her feats, but if you don't think so, then I don't think I'd be able to convince you. To me, her laser beam was quite deadly but even so, she had plenty of other attacks that were strong. Like I said, the fact that she stood still, doesn't really indicate anything here because she already proved to have high defense from not getting phased by an attack from DF Wendy.



Although we have the same definitions for Third Origin, I guess we just can't agree on Chelia's strength or Dimaria's strength. Even though you are right that characters who play passive usually have low defense, Dimaria was able to prove that otherwise when she tanked all non-TO attacks like they were nothing and almost killed Wendy as well.

He was about to start killing the ft members one by one, but Lucy like you said used her intelligence to prevent it. We won't find out if Jacob was bluffing because this manga isn't the kind that would kill off the main team.

Kyoka's magic takes sight, sound, smell, and taste away(no Mage uses taste to find opponents so that one does not matter). Again I will say Dimaria's hax of stopping time does not kill anyone either, but it makes it much easier to kill her opponents. If one cannot see, hear, or smell their opponent, that would be a huge advantage also. Thank goodness it was countered back with bs equal to it in the form of six sense. Whether you like it or not it's hax magic.

We were all shocked that Dimaria could stop time. Even more when she had the power of chronos. I just reread the chapter, Dimaria did try some physical attacks. She hit Chelia once on the head which didn't do much. Add the laser, which only showed power to shoot through Charla's body and Wendy's leg. That's nothing new and not much of a feat. Dimaria put her full power in one attack and said "IMPOSSIBLE!!" Chelia took it pretty well. All the hype was in the fact that she can stop time and takeover chronos. But in chronos form she was nothing special. How strong do you consider TO Chelia? Around Laxus current strength or much stronger, due to Laxus still having potential to get stronger? Because I doubt Chelia with all her potential would be as strong as Laxus. The hype and anticipation is over. We saw what Dimaria was capable of. This isn't the first time someone had a laser. Her full power attack pushed Chelia back a few feet. What was impressive was stopping time and her defense to repel Wendy. Jacob without going stealth still showed great hand to hand combat, pounding both Lucy and Natsu. If you ask me Natsu's same attack that finished Jacob would have probably done the same to Dimaria. One on one Natsu loses to them both because of dimension magic and time magic. If there were no hacks, Natsu takes them out easy. That lazer would disappear in Natsu's fire.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Kyoka's magic takes sight, sound, smell, and taste away(no Mage uses taste to find opponents so that one does not matter). Again I will say Dimaria's hax of stopping time does not kill anyone either, but it makes it much easier to kill her opponents. If one cannot see, hear, or smell their opponent, that would be a huge advantage also. Thank goodness it was countered back with bs equal to it in the form of six sense. Whether you like it or not it's hax magic.

I guess we just think differently here. Sure, the magic was nonsense but for me, a magic has to be really OP for me to call it hax magic.

We were all shocked that Dimaria could stop time. Even more when she had the power of chronos. I just reread the chapter, Dimaria did try some physical attacks. She hit Chelia once on the head which didn't do much. Add the laser, which only showed power to shoot through Charla's body and Wendy's leg. That's nothing new and not much of a feat. Dimaria put her full power in one attack and said "IMPOSSIBLE!!" Chelia took it pretty well. All the hype was in the fact that she can stop time and takeover chronos. But in chronos form she was nothing special. How strong do you consider TO Chelia? Around Laxus current strength or much stronger, due to Laxus still having potential to get stronger? Because I doubt Chelia with all her potential would be as strong as Laxus. The hype and anticipation is over. We saw what Dimaria was capable of. This isn't the first time someone had a laser. Her full power attack pushed Chelia back a few feet. What was impressive was stopping time and her defense to repel Wendy. Jacob without going stealth still showed great hand to hand combat, pounding both Lucy and Natsu. If you ask me Natsu's same attack that finished Jacob would have probably done the same to Dimaria. One on one Natsu loses to them both because of dimension magic and time magic. If there were no hacks, Natsu takes them out easy. That lazer would disappear in Natsu's fire.

We'll just leave it that you have your opinion and I have mine. I can't agree here because Dimaria never showed anything to classify her as a low-tier Spriggan like Jacob. I don't remember when Dimaria hit Chelia on her head unless you're talking about the scene when Chelia already had Third Origin. I wouldn't use that against Dimaria because TO Chelia is very strong. Also, when Dimaria used her "full power" attack on Chelia, we was already losing her God Soul as it was being undone by Chelia's God Slaying Magic. Not only was she at "full power" in a weakened state, Wendy helped her with an enchantment which also happens to be one of her better specialties in magic.

As for TO Chelia, I can't compare her to Current Laxus as I am not convinced of Laxus' power yet. So for me, I won't take a stance. However, I can tell you that she is definitely a top-tier mage with Third Origin.

 

[Firepower]

I guess we just think differently here. Sure, the magic was nonsense but for me, a magic has to be really OP for me to call it hax magic.



We'll just leave it that you have your opinion and I have mine. I can't agree here because Dimaria never showed anything to classify her as a low-tier Spriggan like Jacob. I don't remember when Dimaria hit Chelia on her head unless you're talking about the scene when Chelia already had Third Origin. I wouldn't use that against Dimaria because TO Chelia is very strong. Also, when Dimaria used her "full power" attack on Chelia, we was already losing her God Soul as it was being undone by Chelia's God Slaying Magic. Not only was she at "full power" in a weakened state, Wendy helped her with an enchantment which is also happens to be one of her better specialties in magic.

As for TO Chelia, I can't compare her to Current Laxus as I am not convinced of Laxus' power yet. So for me, I won't take a stance. However, I can tell you that she is definitely a top-tier mage with Third Origin.

Therefore because you don't know how strong TO Chlia is, and won't say that you believe she is as strong or stronger than Laxus, you have no evidence. You'd have to at believe she is at least as strong as Laxus or Natsu. Otherwise Dimaria isn't much. What I can say is that her full potential isn't likely more than current Natsu, meaning Dimaria isn't all that you make her out to be. I think at best she was about as strong as Natsu. Benefit of the doubt only. These are all opinions, as but when you can give sufficient info, that helps to prove your point. Otherwise you are just believing what you wanted to believe and possibly not seeing the truth. Dimaria and Jacob seem to be of the same strength, same tier, regardless if one is a bit stronger. Stop making excuses, Dimaria said she gave her best shot, full power, and had very little affect. Her takeover on her face would disappear, but come back. She did not say she was losing power. She said she used her full power, shocked that Chelia took it well. Saying "IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!" You are making up excuses that she wasn't at full strength. But even if you are right that she wasn't at full strength, that just shows how easy she is to overcome. A few attacks and she loses her strength. What a waste of takeover if a few hits can take her power and transformation away.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 2, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 2, 2016 ---

Therefore you have nothing that proves Dimaria is above Jacob. If those two fought and used their hacks at the same time, Jacob would be frozen and Dimaria would be in another dimension. Draw or because Dimaria is elsewhere her magic wears off on Jacob. If there were no hax and it was a real fight, Jacob is a great with hand to hand combat, plus stealth. Dimaria might not take any damage because of her defense. Jacob might not have the power to pass that defense, but she wouldn't be able to hit him either due to his fighting skills and stealth.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Therefore because you don't know how strong TO Chlia is, and won't say that you believe she is as strong or stronger than Laxus, you have no evidence. You'd have to at believe she is at least as strong as Laxus or Natsu. Otherwise Dimaria isn't much. What I can say is that her full potential isn't likely more than current Natsu, meaning Dimaria isn't all that you make her out to be. I think at best she was about as strong as Natsu. Benefit of the doubt only. These are all opinions, as but when you can give sufficient info, that helps to prove your point. Otherwise you are just believing what you wanted to believe and possibly not seeing the truth. Dimaria and Jacob seem to be of the same strength, same tier, regardless if one is a bit stronger. Stop making excuses, Dimaria said she gave her best shot, full power, and had very little affect. Her takeover on her face would disappear, but come back. She did not say she was losing power. She said she used her full power, shocked that Chelia took it well. Saying "IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!" You are making up excuses that she wasn't at full strength. But even if you are right that she wasn't at full strength, that just shows how easy she is to overcome. A few attacks and she loses her strength. What a waste of takeover if a few hits can take her power and transformation away.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 2, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 2, 2016 ---

Therefore you have nothing that proves Dimaria is above Jacob. If those two fought and used their hacks at the same time, Jacob would be frozen and Dimaria would be in another dimension. Draw or because Dimaria is elsewhere her magic wears off on Jacob. If there were no hax and it was a real fight, Jacob is a great with hand to hand combat, plus stealth. Dimaria might not take any damage because of her defense. Jacob might not have the power to pass that defense, but she wouldn't be able to hit him either due to his fighting skills and stealth.

I have my own reasons for not comparing her to Laxus but if you want to know what I think of TO Chelia, she was stronger than Erza. Who said you have to be as strong as Natsu... Dimaria is not a high-tier or top-tier Spriggan. Ultear said Dimaria's God Soul was being undone by Chelia's God Slaying Magic. That tells us that she was already going downhill at that point. Characters don't have to literally state that they're getting weaker. As readers, we can read the context of the situation and find out for ourselves. Nothing here suggests that Jacob and Dimaria are equal... If you just go by the fact that you they they both have "hax" magic, then what about Brandish? You're acting as if Dimaria couldn't damage Wendy or Chelia. That laser beam could have killed Wendy in one-shot. She was so lucky that Dimaria hit her leg... If that beam penetrated the same spot that Future Lucy got hit by Future Rogue's beam, the scene would have ended the same way. I still don't know why many decide to negate this fact and use Carla instead.

 

[Firepower]

I have my own reasons for not comparing her to Laxus but if you want to know what I think of TO Chelia, she was stronger than Erza. Who said you have to be as strong as Natsu... Dimaria is not a high-tier or top-tier Spriggan. Ultear said Dimaria's God Soul was being undone by Chelia's God Slaying Magic. That tells us that she was already going downhill at that point. Characters don't have to literally state that they're getting weaker. As readers, we can read the context of the situation and find out for ourselves. Nothing here suggests that Jacob and Dimaria are equal... If you just go by the fact that you they they both have "hax" magic, then what about Brandish? You're acting as if Dimaria couldn't damage Wendy or Chelia. That laser beam could have killed Wendy in one-shot. She was so lucky that Dimaria hit her leg... If that beam penetrated the same spot that Future Lucy got hit by Future Rogue's beam, the scene would have ended the same way. I still don't know why many decide to negate this fact and use Carla instead.

Things change. Since Natsu beat Jacob in the way that he did, I said he is likely stronger than Erza. Look back in my comments this week if you want. I ranked him as high as Laxus and said he might have even surpassed him. Of course you have your reasons, it because you are unsure who is greater than who. You just want to believe Dimaria is greater than the other spriggan for no reason. You are very right that Wendy would have died had she been hit in the right spot. Future Rogue used it too like you said. So that is nothing new, nothing special. Hades should have killed Wendy also with the same thing. So that laser is really nothing to brag about and considered anything special. I did not say Wendy could not have been hurt. But I did say that Dimaria's strongest attack didn't do much to Chelia. It did hurt Chelia, but for something that was supposed to be her strongest attack that wasn't very impressive. How do you think it would have gone if TO Chelia took Natsu's demolition fist? You can make up all you want that because her takeover was being undone that she wasn't at full power. Dimaria was not shocked because she have her best shot with little power left. She shit her pants knowing that Chelia took her full power pretty well. Chelia was up in her face too when Dimaria used it. When has anyone been surprised when someone takes what remaining power they have left. They are surprised because they used their full power, just like she said "Impossible! I used my full power in that attack."

So let's go about it your way. Her takeover must be crap if just hitting her is removing that takeover and taking her power away. Therefore it's a big weakness. You make up a lot of stuff in your head. I never said Dimaria could not hurt Wendy or Chelia. I said her full power did little to Chelia. Give it up already. This won't change. Your just dragging this debate on. Be honest with yourself. Nothing suggest Dimaria is greater than Jacob. Deal with it or prolong this conversation the same way you did trying to define the word "struggle" like you did before when you tried to take back what you said. Excuses is all you have left.

 

[Orgastthemage]

In your opinion rank the spriggan 12 according to strength. No drawbacks, all spells are allowed. Hype and predictions are a MUST when ranking members.

My opinion:
1.) August
2.) Dimaria
3.)g. Serena
4.)neinhart
5.)invel
6.)bradman
7.)Jacob lessio
8.)brandish
9.)wahl
10.) ajeel

What say you?