Final Jellal Fernandes vs Natsu Dragneel

[Arjuna]

You're the one assuming. It's Hiro who had to use Happy to prevent Jacob from using his spatial magic, proving it would be quite the win for Jacob if used.

Who told you Natsu's heat is enough so as to instantaneously melt steel before the top pierces through Natsu?

And agian, you're the one assuming Jellal and Jacob won't be able to tank a king fire roar.



That knife still pierced through Natsu's arm.

He easily melted the knife.There was not a jot of blood from that knife hitting Natsu.

 

[SirSamuel016]

It seems that the main argument for Jellal right now is comparing how he'd go against Jacob compared to Natsu, but the fact that Natsu was holding back a lot is continually ignored by a lot of people. If Natsu hadn't of held back, it would've been a lot different. Jacob's invisible weapons would've melted, he's be in constant pain from the sheer heat Natsu is giving off and Natsu could finish it with one or two attacks, like how he dealt the majority of the damage needed to defeat Jacob with one hit in FDKM. Either way, its turning into a Natsu vs Jacob discussion right now, so it'd be great if we can keep more to the actual topic of Natsu vs Jellal.

Now onto Natsu vs Jellal, nothing anyone has said has swayed me at all. I still believe Natsu would take this fight at high diff, and I'm giving Jellal the benefit of the doubt here of being able to do a pretty decent job at avoiding Natsu. The truth is Jellal's shown durability isn't that great at the end of the day, as we've seen him get taken out my Neinhart with one-shot (call it plot or whatever but the fact remains he was under the water and not moving by himself) and that he's previously been defeated after taking only a few hits from DF Natsu in the ToH, which is nothing compared to Natsu's power in FDKM.

Now, Jellal hasn't shown much growth at all, and I believe he's always been a Spriggan level character. Now people might say he's been portrayed as getting stronger but really he's just been holding back less and less throughout the story. in ToH, he couldn't bear to brake the tower so he held back a lot. In the GMG he didn't care as much so he let loose a bit more with the Grand Chariot. In Alvarez, after he recovered from being dropped by neinhart he attempted to kill Neinhart and threw everything he had into Grand Chariot, which took time to charge up and left him visibly exhausted afterwards. Call it Jellal growing over the series if you want, but without any solid evidence that he's gotten stronger in any other aspects, I'd say its a case that he hasn't grown at all and has always been Spriggan level.

At the end of the day, Jellal doesn't have that great a defense or durability, and simply dodging attacks with Meteor doesn't mean he is good defensively, and I believe after a FDKM attack or two (or three or four), he'd be done and dusted, and Natsu would still be standing victorious.

That knife still pierced through Natsu's arm.

Can you show me where it visibly stuck into his arm and we saw him bleed out? Because I'm looking at the page right now in Chapter 477 and the knife gets melted away without any sign of his arm actually being pierced.

 

[Axiomus]

Natsu would have taken out Jacob in one hit if he wasn't worried about destroying the guild, and used FDK mode from the start. If Jacob wants to take out Natsu with transport he would need to do it before Natsu enters FDK mode, because once Natsu enters FDK mode Jacob would recoil from the heat just like he did in chapter 479.

Also, saying Natsu would lose to Jacob really has no bearing in this discussion. Natsu wouldn't lose to Jacob because Jacob has better attacks, is faster, or more durable than Natsu. Natsu would lose to Jacob because he has no defense against someone teleporting him. The same is true for Jellal. Jellal also can't teleport Natsu, so none of what Jacob does scales to Jellal.

It's not like Jellal soloed Neinhart either. Other people defeated Neinhart's historia, and the Historia that Neinhart did create for Jellal was Simon. Saying that Neinahrt can summon an army of the strongest Ballam Alliance members to stop Natsu does nothing to prove that Jellal > Natsu in this context. Natsu can take out Neinhart with demolition fist as well, especially if all that stood in his way is Simon.

 

[Raven]

You're the one assuming. It's Hiro who had to use Happy to prevent Jacob from using his spatial magic, proving it would be quite the win for Jacob if used.

Who told you Natsu's heat is enough so as to instantaneously melt steel before the top pierces through Natsu?

And agian, you're the one assuming Jellal and Jacob won't be able to tank a king fire roar.

I just play like you, you are the one who assumed Jacob > BDKM Natsu because of travesty reasons :')
Jacob can transport them to his place ain't making him any stronger. If Natsu went all out from the beginning he would really have destroyed Jacob with no effort. Lucy just undo his spells and saved the guild from his clench supplemented by Makarov giant fist, Happy here is usless because Jacob can't do the same trick twice because of Marin presence moreover Makarov punch won't do shit to Jacob it just send him flying. When natsu used BDKM mode he 1 shotted Jacob and evaporated the lake.

Anyways i ain't going to post again in this thread, Natsu wins mid-high diff

 

[Char]

Spoiler

I'd say it did pierce. I see liquid dripping off his arm. And the visible part of the knife is too wide, the top has clearly pierced in.

It seems that the main argument for Jellal right now is comparing how he'd go against Jacob compared to Natsu,

I voted for Natsu. Just because his yet-to-be-seen current DF is allowed (which is nuts and all speculation, but alright xD).

but the fact that Natsu was holding back a lot is continually ignored by a lot of people.

In all my arguments I'm regarding a Jacob vs BDKM Natsu, 1 vs 1, both going all out, and I still see no way Natsu would beat Jacob's hax.

If Natsu hadn't of held back, it would've been a lot different. Jacob's invisible weapons would've melted,

That's mere assumption. I'm going to assume too:

1. Natsu only melted that knife because he knew where it was coming from and focalised MP/heat on that point.
2. Natsu cannot emanate heat from all the cells of his body so there are unprotected spots.
3. Natsu's heat cannot instantaneously melt a weapon in BDKM if it's thrown fast enough to pierce his body before it gets to melt
4. Jacob has used various tools and weapons. Maybe he's got a material which doesn't melt.

These are all assumptions based on nothing...

Now onto Natsu vs Jellal, nothing anyone has said has swayed me at all. I still believe Natsu would take this fight at high diff, and I'm giving Jellal the benefit of the doubt here of being able to do a pretty decent job at avoiding Natsu. The truth is Jellal's shown durability isn't that great at the end of the day, as we've seen him get taken out my Neinhart with one-shot (call it plot or whatever but the fact remains he was under the water and not moving by himself) and that he's previously been defeated after taking only a few hits from DF Natsu in the ToH, which is nothing compared to Natsu's power in FDKM.

I mostly agree.

Now, Jellal hasn't shown much growth at all,

We must be reading different mangas... Jellal's growth rate has been as enormous as Erza's, Gray's or Laxus'.

and I believe he's always been a Spriggan level character.

That's enormously inaccurate but I'm going to respect your opinion.

Now people might say he's been portrayed as getting stronger but really he's just been holding back less and less throughout the story.

Pre-pre-TS Jellal hasn't shown big feats.

Back in ToH he was about to go all out and kill Natsu but he was severely wounded and that affected his performance. DF Natsu proceeded to own him.

Makarov > ToH Jellal.

In O6, I agree he was severely injured but that's no excuse to pathetically lose against Midnight.

Now, after the first timeskip, he arguably didn't have much time to train since he was mostly in jail, but he managed to become as powerful as to oneshot the whole O6 save Brain/Hoeteye. I call this improvement.

Current Jellal has gone as far as to be capable of defeating a Spriggan 12.

How can you even put ToH Jellal on the same league of a Spriggan 12? Do you not remember everyone's reactions (Natsu's, Gray's, Erza's, Lucy's) upon being close to Brandish? Spriggan 12 is unlike any other enemy they've ever faced. A Spriggan 12 is stronger than José, Zero, Jellal, Hades or even Mard Geer! Their MP alone is enough to freeze a low or mid class mage!

in ToH, he couldn't bear to brake the tower so he held back a lot.

Until he began to go all out...

I just play like you, you are the one who assumed Jacob > BDKM Natsu because of travesty reasons :')
Jacob can transport them to his place ain't making him any stronger. If Natsu went all out from the beginning he would really have destroyed Jacob with no effort. Lucy just undo his spells and saved the guild from his clench supplemented by Makarov giant fist, Happy here is usless because Jacob can't do the same trick twice because of Marin presence moreover Makarov punch won't do shit to Jacob it just send him flying. When natsu used BDKM mode he 1 shotted Jacob and evaporated the lake.

Anyways i ain't going to post again in this thread, Natsu wins mid-high diff

I'm not playing anything I'm providing sound arguments... if you don't agree with them let's kindly agree to disagree.

 

[Ebony Maw]

Well the discussion is starting to feel a bit circular at the moment so I might as well put something fresh in: Natsu is going to get caught in a Solid Seal. The reason being Jellal's intelligence and Natsu's lack of knowledge of the seal, when Jellal sets the seal up it's likely that the Dragon Slayer will mistake it for Grand Chariot (the points of the Solid Seal were in the exact formation of GC) and we know that Jellal has set up spells before quite strategically (see Jura vs Jellal). If Natsu wants to stop him setting the seal up he's going to have a hard time because he'll have to catch up with Meteor and Jellal will likely be airborne. After this Jellal can use Sema/Abyss Break/Altaris to take the match.

The only trouble is that we don't know how long Solid Seal lasts, though going from what we saw in Jellal vs OS it lasts long enough for him to use one of his top tier nukes.

 

[Brandish μ]

It seems that the main argument for Jellal right now is comparing how he'd go against Jacob compared to Natsu, but the fact that Natsu was holding back a lot is continually ignored by a lot of people. If Natsu hadn't of held back, it would've been a lot different. Jacob's invisible weapons would've melted, he's be in constant pain from the sheer heat Natsu is giving off and Natsu could finish it with one or two attacks, like how he dealt the majority of the damage needed to defeat Jacob with one hit in FDKM. Either way, its turning into a Natsu vs Jacob discussion right now, so it'd be great if we can keep more to the actual topic of Natsu vs Jellal.

I agree that Natsu was certainly holding back in the guild. I just look at Natsu's FD claw that he used, and the flames (or lack thereof) are a huge indication of just how much he was holding back.

I also agree that Demolishing Strike did near total damage on Jacob, as he wasn't much hurt before that.

Also I believe Transport would solo Natsu with the same level of efficiency it would Jellal.

Now, Jellal hasn't shown much growth at all, and I believe he's always been a Spriggan level character

This I disagree with. Jellal at the GMG was not in a different class then Jura. Jura was in a different class than the GoI. A Spriggan (Serena) can casually floor the GoI. If we're calling pre-skip Jellal a Spriggan tier, then Gildarts/Hades/Mard are definitely Spriggans, and Jura would likely be one too. But we saw the chasm between X792 Jura and God Serena.

Jellal has only been considered a Spriggan tier thanks to his GC on Neinhart imo. That spell never took anyone out before, and Jura full on stopped it with ease. Unless Neinhart has much less durability than someone like Tartarus-Angel, than I think the GC now >> GC previously. Also the skies parting was a fairly good indication that Jellal's magic is on another level tbh. I don't think Jellal has Spriggan level MP but it's not going to be lagging by much.

 

[Ebony Maw]

This I disagree with. Jellal at the GMG was not in a different class then Jura. Jura was in a different class than the GoI. A Spriggan (Serena) can casually floor the GoI. If we're calling pre-skip Jellal a Spriggan tier, then Gildarts/Hades/Mard are definitely Spriggans, and Jura would likely be one too. But we saw the chasm between X792 Jura and God Serena.

Jellal has only been considered a Spriggan tier thanks to his GC on Neinhart imo. That spell never took anyone out before, and Jura full on stopped it with ease. Unless Neinhart has much less durability than someone like Tartarus-Angel, than I think the GC now >> GC previously. Also the skies parting was a fairly good indication that Jellal's magic is on another level tbh. I don't think Jellal has Spriggan level MP but it's not going to be lagging by much.

Jelly boy's Magic Power also made Neinhart crap himself, quite out of character for the cocky Spriggan.

 

[Brandish μ]

Well the discussion is starting to feel a bit circular at the moment so I might as well put something fresh in: Natsu is going to get caught in a Solid Seal. The reason being Jellal's intelligence and Natsu's lack of knowledge of the seal, when Jellal sets the seal up it's likely that the Dragon Slayer will mistake it for Grand Chariot (the points of the Solid Seal were in the exact formation of GC) and we know that Jellal has set up spells before quite strategically (see Jura vs Jellal). If Natsu wants to stop him setting the seal up he's going to have a hard time because he'll have to catch up with Meteor and Jellal will likely be airborne. After this Jellal can use Sema/Abyss Break/Altaris to take the match.

The only trouble is that we don't know how long Solid Seal lasts, though going from what we saw in Jellal vs OS it lasts long enough for him to use one of his top tier nukes.

I think there's some merit to the use of something like Solid Seal. What I don't know is how Jellal did it. It's kind of implied that a spell like this might require prep. I believe someone said "When did he-". Perhaps Jellal is that proficient with the spell that he can pull it off quickly, he is a genius wizard after all. It'd be very effective for Jellal - his magic requires a little cast time so having a spell like this is certainly something I would think he'd want to master.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2016 ---

elly boy's Magic Power also made Neinhart crap himself, quite out of character for the cocky Spriggan.

I think this was more about the sky and not his MP. Neinhart was more scared of Erza's overwhelming magic power than Jellal's tbh.

 

[Ebony Maw]

I think this was more about the sky and not his MP. Neinhart was more scared of Erza's overwhelming magic power than Jellal's tbh.

I keep forgetting that it was GC that did that lol. And some people say that Jellal hasn't grown...

 

[Axiomus]

Blood is usually drawn as black. If Jacob's knife pierced Natsu's arm, there should be a wound on his arm

Spoiler: Condition of Natsu's arm when we next see it

We've also already seen how Natsu handles being impaled by metal objects:

Spoiler: Natsu melting the Iron Maiden

 

[MCG_Raven]

You're the one assuming. It's Hiro who had to use Happy to prevent Jacob from using his spatial magic, proving it would be quite the win for Jacob if used.

Who told you Natsu's heat is enough so as to instantaneously melt steel before the top pierces through Natsu?

And agian, you're the one assuming Jellal and Jacob won't be able to tank a king fire roar.

Oh so a character blocking a move is proof now that Natsu would not have survived it? This is some funny logic. Or rather no logic at all.

 

[Char]

Oh so a character blocking a move is proof now that Natsu would not have survived it? This is some funny logic. Or rather no logic at all.

Well it's rather logical isn't it? Hadn't Happy blocked it, Jacob would've automatically won the battle!

 

[MCG_Raven]

Well it's rather logical isn't it? Hadn't Happy blocked it, Jacob would've automatically won the battle!

No it is not logical whatsoever. Where is your proof that Natsu would have been killed by Jacob had he been able to use his move completely? Please show me the Manga Panel telling you that Natsu had no Chance of Survival had Happy not intervened. If you don't have such a panel your "argument" if i was to call it that falls flat as is therefore completely void.

 

[Static]

No it is not logical whatsoever. Where is your proof that Natsu would have been killed by Jacob had he been able to use his move completely? Please show me the Manga Panel telling you that Natsu had no Chance of Survival had Happy not intervened. If you don't have such a panel your "argument" if i was to call it that falls flat as is therefore completely void.

Jacob could've used Transport and bam - Natsu gone.

Also yo Raven, its me TheDragonking2000 / Chaos

 

[MCG_Raven]

Spoiler

I'd say it did pierce. I see liquid dripping off his arm. And the visible part of the knife is too wide, the top has clearly pierced in.

Natsus Blood is red so his blood in the Manga can not be white. You know which substance was white though? Yup. The Metal that knife was made of. Conclusion: It is not blood but the Knife melting. This is indicated in the top Panel you have shown slightly and confirmed in the bottom left one where you see the same liquid drop off of Natsu without any wound whatsoever. And just remember this is still base Natsu. He is not even considerably powering up here. So none of Jacobs Physical Weapons would have any significant effect on Natsu if any at all.

Jacob could've used Transport and bam - Natsu gone.

Also yo Raven, its me TheDragonking2000 / Chaos

Remember that this is a fight where Emotional barriers and shit like that do not count so Natsu is in a state that basically tells him to go all out. This means unless Jacob can clap his Hands faster than DF or FDKM Natsu can punch his ugly ass to the moon and back (neither of which have any evidence given to us) he is dead seconds into the fight. Because again without anything holding Natsu Back emotionally or mentally otherwise he fights with all he has and thus has a plethora of moves to actually roast Jacob alive while Jacob can yes try to get rid of Natsu but i don't remember Jaco having any evidence regarding the ability to transport moving targets with ease so DF Natsu might just outpace him. Again there is neither evidence for nor against this claim which is why i put the "might" here.

On a more on topic Note: For the Jelly Bean vs Natsu Match Up everything of relevance has been said at this point which you can easily tell by everybody focussing on how they performed in different fights that have no relevance to the one at hand. Natsu would take this with My Verdict being MId - high difficulty depending on what Jellato decides to cast. Meteor and other quick spells of his would make it hard yes but his really significant Spells don't come out fast enough to be really dangerous for Natsu in DF or FDKM.


Also Hi Chaos

 

[Jko]

My face when people say Natsu can solo Jacob:

Saying he can is like saying he can blitz Dimaria... LOL.

Natsu can solo Neinhart but he can't solo Jacob. It's not like Jellal can either which some people are saying lol.

 

[Ebony Maw]

On a more on topic Note: For the Jelly Bean vs Natsu Match Up everything of relevance has been said at this point which you can easily tell by everybody focussing on how they performed in different fights that have no relevance to the one at hand. Natsu would take this with My Verdict being MId - high difficulty depending on what Jellato decides to cast. Meteor and other quick spells of his would make it hard yes but his really significant Spells don't come out fast enough to be really dangerous for Natsu in DF or FDKM.

I've actually posted an argument about Solid Seal, not many people have addressed it though.

 

[MCG_Raven]

I've actually posted an argument about Solid Seal, not many people have addressed it though.

I am disregarding Solid Seal because none of the sources i have currently at hand have any information on this whatsoever. In fact the Wiki i am using to check which Spells Jellal has at his disposal does not acknowledge this spell at all so i can not tell how much cast time this spell has. Considering it is a seal the cast time would be too high though. Simply because the amount of time it would take for Jellal to create the spell at full funtionality would be enough time for Natsu to go in for a hit and thus negating all the work Jellal did so far which in turn would mean that his Solid Seal is entirely useless. Also i remember you bringing up that spell in his fight against the Seis right? He never used it though? He prepared for GC to which the OS couldn't react in time and then he cast Sema to defeat them in one fell swoop so i really don't know where you get this spell for him from

 

[Ebony Maw]

I am disregarding Solid Seal because none of the sources i have currently at hand have any information on this whatsoever. In fact the Wiki i am using to check which Spells Jellal has at his disposal does not acknowledge this spell at all so i can not tell how much cast time this spell has. Considering it is a seal the cast time would be too high though. Simply because the amount of time it would take for Jellal to create the spell at full funtionality would be enough time for Natsu to go in for a hit and thus negating all the work Jellal did so far which in turn would mean that his Solid Seal is entirely useless. Also i remember you bringing up that spell in his fight against the Seis right? He never used it though? He prepared for GC to which the OS couldn't react in time and then he cast Sema to defeat them in one fell swoop so i really don't know where you get this spell for him from

The reason I bring up Solid Seal is because:

a) Something happens before GC and the OS refer to it as either a "Three dimensional seal" or a "Solid seal". Note that after the OS fight no one else has been able to escape Grand Chariot.
b) Before GC was cast Racer should have been able to escape the zone but he didn't even move, he was glued to the spot. (Same goes for the others)

As for cast time, I do agree that it likely does need to be set up but we've seen Jellal strategically set up spells before like in Jellal vs Jura. Given that the points for Solid Seal are in the same formation as the seal for GC then Jellal could set it up in Meteor and trick Natsu into thinking he's setting GC up. If Natsu tries to stop this he's going to have a tough time given how fast he is and that he'll likely be airborne. After he's got the seal set up he should be able to get one of his top tier nukes off as he did against the OS.

Edit: here are the scans.

http://img.one-piece.top//img/7/3696.jpg
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v43/c369/9.html