Final Jellal Fernandes vs Natsu Dragneel

[Orgastthemage]

When the heck did Jellal have telekinesis or gravity? Did I miss a chapter bcs he's never used that stuff in battle.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 2, 2016, Original Post Date: Jul 2, 2016 ---

What spell is that? All is good spells take charge time.

Grand Chariot( regular) can be used in a much shorter time. It may not be strong enough to negate but it can easily slow down. all he needs to get the Jump on Natsu.

Natsu is a great fighter, but he relies mainly on instinct and sheer force to win a fight. You need more to beat an adversary of comparable strength. That is mainly why Natsu has Lucy to back him up in some major fights. Or at least why he needs help to take out most major enemies.

 

[Jko]

Show me manga scans of Jellals' spell being charged for a minute.

Show me scans of Jellal having the intent of killing Neinhart.

Natsu had to use his strongest attack to put down a spriggan and not kill him. How was Natsu "holding back" when everyone says he wasnt going all out because he was inside of the guild?

How was he holding back when he had to use his power up?

Show me scans of Cema needing Jellal to be stationary. Natsu would have to shoot up in the air with his roar to destroy it. Jellal can kill him right then and there.

Natsu is not faster than Meteor. In dragon force, he was faster by a little bid. Natsu can't enter dragon force at will, there is no proof that he can. Just because Wendy can, doesn't mean Natsu can, you're just speculating at that point.

Natsu and Jellal both increased so Jellal in meteor is still faster. He do his star spells and blitz him.

And all Jellal has to do is seal Natsu to the ground like he did with the OS and drop Cema.

Jellal wins. Oh and how did he win against God Serna when he can eat his flames?

FDK Demo-fist is not his strongest move as he isn't even exhausted after using it. He's relatively fine unlike Jellal after GC.

Natsu held back in the guild.

Natsu is currently faster than meteor. He blitzed through thousands of monster and went beyond the horizon in a split second.

Jellal needs to be stationary to do his Sema pose. It showed this twice.

Natsu's growth far exceeds Jellal so no, Jellal isn't faster in meteor.

How can he seal Natsu to the ground? Jellal has never done that to OS. And Sema ain't doing sh!t to Natsu.

Tartarus Natsu has already shown to be able to use DF at will so no, it isn't speculation.

How did Jellal win against Laxus when he got oneshotted by Ninefodder?

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 2, 2016, Original Post Date: Jul 2, 2016 ---

Grand Chariot( regular) can be used in a much shorter time. It may not be strong enough to negate but it can easily slow down. all he needs to get the Jump on Natsu.

Natsu is a great fighter, but he relies mainly on instinct and sheer force to win a fight. You need more to beat an adversary of comparable strength. That is mainly why Natsu has Lucy to back him up in some major fights. Or at least why he needs help to take out most major enemies.

That still wouldn't be fast enough to stop his roar. Even though that GC is faster he still needs to set it up.

Natsu is smarter at fighting than Jellal and he shown it multiple times. Look at the battle w/the Twins he saw through all there fighting habits and use that against them in CQC.

 

[SirSamuel016]

I'm arguing with the guy who said God Serna can't eat Natsus flames but ok.

Natsu saw Gray all F*cked up, that is why he entered dragon force. It's like any other anime transformation, an emotional attachment. Natsu can't just be like "1,2,3 dragon force".

Quit dodging my questions, HOW WAS NATSU HOLDING BACK WHEN HE HAD TO ENTER HIS NEW POWER UP?

HOW WAS HE HOLDING BACK WHEN HE WAS OUTSIDE?

Idc about tourament rules, if Natsu could just use DF at will Jellal still survived the first time. Dragon force uses tons of energy so even he did use it, he would be tired. Jellal would be beaten but still strong enough to get back up and f*ck up Natsu.

Jellal went with the intent of killing Neinhart but with his basic spell.

Natsu use god tier attack
Jellal use tier 1 attack

I'm sure you can figure which is a better feat. And I doubt Natsu can use Demo fist can just run toward him.

The God of war wasn't moving.

I'm get scientific up on this. Natsu and Jacob are in mid air, you cannot move faster than gravity pushing you down. PLOT put Natsu directly above Jacob who was less than 3 feet apart. Yes they were moving but Natsu was positioned directly ABOVE HIM.

Jellal and Natsu would be on flat terrain. Do you think Natsu can just run around chasing Jellal in meteor in the sky with a big ball fire/Demo first?

What does God Serena have to do with this fight? I still don't see any solid reasoning with your arguments at all, and no evidence. All you're giving is baseless conjecture, and nothing more.

Natsu still entered Dragon Force without ingesting a power source, hence it was willed. And this isn't a point that needs to be argued further as by the tournament rules he can use it, so you shouldn't be getting hung up on something that has been given the go-ahead for him to use in the tournament. And again, Natsu doesn't need to sustain Dragon Force for long, he's previously defeated Jellal with four punches in DF so now with a stronger DF a few hits and a spell would more than do the damage needed to defeat Jellal. At the end of the day, Jellal's durability isn't good enough for him to stand up to Natsu's attacks for too long. Plus, Natsu has only entered Dragon Force previously when he's low on magic apart from the Zero fight, where he sustained it for a good while. So your argument goes out the window there.

I didn't dodge your question, I gave you a clear answer to the difference in how the two attacked. Natsu wasn't holding back by any means, but he also didn't have the intent to kill, while Jellal did have the intent to kill which you've even said he did with the committing a sin line. The intent to kill means you're doing your absolute worst to kill someone, which is what Jellal did with Grand Chariot. Meanwhile Natsu had the intent to only stop Jacob. While he wasn't holding back, he certainly didn't try and kill Jacob either.

Again with the stationary argument? Natsu and Jacob were in motion when Natsu used the Demolition Fist, and the attack was pretty instantaneous as well, i.e it doesn't need to be charged (at least in FDKM) so again your argument out the window and into the trash can. You're seriously trying to argue Natsu can't use the Demolition Fist unless he's stationary, but he's been moving when he's used it previously. Your point here literally has no basis, and is rather absurd, plus you give next to no explanation for why you think he can't use it while moving. Plus, I still don't know why you're bringing Gravity into the damn equation for Natsu's attack when he was clearly pretty much level and gaining ground on Jacob.

Again, Natsu has the ability to outspeed Jellal using Dragon Force so all he has to do is get up to Jellal and hit him with the Demolition fist to end the fight. And before you go spurting the Jellal can tank it nonsense, if four punches from Dragon Force back in ToH could take Jellal out, then how could Jellal still be standing after an attack that powerful hits him when a much weaker explosion from Neinhart took him out rather easily?

 

[Jellal.S.N]

What does God Serena have to do with this fight? I still don't see any solid reasoning with your arguments at all, and no evidence. All you're giving is baseless conjecture, and nothing more.

Natsu still entered Dragon Force without ingesting a power source, hence it was willed. And this isn't a point that needs to be argued further as by the tournament rules he can use it, so you shouldn't be getting hung up on something that has been given the go-ahead for him to use in the tournament. And again, Natsu doesn't need to sustain Dragon Force for long, he's previously defeated Jellal with four punches in DF so now with a stronger DF a few hits and a spell would more than do the damage needed to defeat Jellal. At the end of the day, Jellal's durability isn't good enough for him to stand up to Natsu's attacks for too long. Plus, Natsu has only entered Dragon Force previously when he's low on magic apart from the Zero fight, where he sustained it for a good while. So your argument goes out the window there.

I didn't dodge your question, I gave you a clear answer to the difference in how the two attacked. Natsu wasn't holding back by any means, but he also didn't have the intent to kill, while Jellal did have the intent to kill which you've even said he did with the committing a sin line. The intent to kill means you're doing your absolute worst to kill someone, which is what Jellal did with Grand Chariot. Meanwhile Natsu had the intent to only stop Jacob. While he wasn't holding back, he certainly didn't try and kill Jacob either.

Again with the stationary argument? Natsu and Jacob were in motion when Natsu used the Demolition Fist, and the attack was pretty instantaneous as well, i.e it doesn't need to be charged (at least in FDKM) so again your argument out the window and into the trash can. You're seriously trying to argue Natsu can't use the Demolition Fist unless he's stationary, but he's been moving when he's used it previously. Your point here literally has no basis, and is rather absurd, plus you give next to no explanation for why you think he can't use it while moving. Plus, I still don't know why you're bringing Gravity into the damn equation for Natsu's attack when he was clearly pretty much level and gaining ground on Jacob.

Again, Natsu has the ability to outspeed Jellal using Dragon Force so all he has to do is get up to Jellal and hit him with the Demolition fist to end the fight. And before you go spurting the Jellal can tank it nonsense, if four punches from Dragon Force back in ToH could take Jellal out, then how could Jellal still be standing after an attack that powerful hits him when a much weaker explosion from Neinhart took him out rather easily?

I think @Woodenstool meant a different point actually (I think). When he says stationary, I think he means Natsu can't run around with it . U know, like how Natsu can't run around with a charged up roar nor Jellal can cast GC while continuously running. Most of the mages can't do spells like that actually but I also agree the TARGET does not need to be stationary. This will be my last post tho. It seems both of us are set up quite strongly with our sides and the only difference in opinion between us is Jellal's durability(which is kinda the reason why we have different opinions on who will win). It was fun discussing with you.
On a side note, THIS THREAD IS HEATED for God sake...

 

[Souvik]

Jellal will most certainly win this this finale .. During the time skip both the finalists have grown a lot but Natsu acquired an instant kill trick which he has already used on Zeref , now he is left with his increased magical power which he gained through training , but post time skip Jellal's magical power has also increased and since he was stronger before the time skip his magical power now is more than what Natsu has , so Jellal WINS.

 

[Boomburst]

Jellal will most certainly win this this finale .. During the time skip both the finalists have grown a lot but Natsu acquired an instant kill trick which he has already used on Zeref , now he is left with his increased magical power which he gained through training , but post time skip Jellal's magical power has also increased and since he was stronger before the time skip his magical power now is more than what Natsu has , so Jellal WINS.

Yea sure Jellal is stronger than he was before the time skip but from what we can tell Natsu has had the most improvement out of anyone else we've seen. Just claiming that "oh he was stronger before so he's stronger now" isn't a valid argument.

 

[EmberSpirit]

There's no evidence that Jellal took his time charging Grand Chariot.
No evidence that Grand Chariot is a spell that can be charged.

Altering the sky has no relation to Grand Chariot until it's proven. It looks like the effects of releasing his mp.

Reason I think Natsu wins is because just a GC isn't enough to justify otherwise. I am sure my mind will change once I see Jellal's other spells if Natsu doesn't get even stronger by then.

 

[Souvik]

Yea sure Jellal is stronger than he was before the time skip but from what we can tell Natsu has had the most improvement out of anyone else we've seen. Just claiming that "oh he was stronger before so he's stronger now" isn't a valid argument.

Natsu sure is strong but his techniques mostly feeds on Igneel's leftover magical power once he runs out it his battle strength won't be as remarkable as you claim it to be , but still Natsu can fight him on nearly equal ground and has a chance to beat him but for that he needs the NAKAMA boost which he gets when he fights to protect his family and for which Jellal has to become evil again which is not gonna happen ....so Jellal wins

 

[Boomburst]

Natsu sure is strong but his techniques mostly feeds on Igneel's leftover magical power once he runs out it his battle strength won't be as remarkable as you claim it to be , but still Natsu can fight him on nearly equal ground and has a chance to beat him but for that he needs the NAKAMA boost which he gets when he fights to protect his family and for which Jellal has to become evil again which is not gonna happen ....so Jellal wins

Um, no, Natsu never accessed Igneels power until he fought Zeref. Everything else he's done since the time skip has been completely of his own power.

 

[Woodenstool]

Yea sure Jellal is stronger than he was before the time skip but from what we can tell Natsu has had the most improvement out of anyone else we've seen. Just claiming that "oh he was stronger before so he's stronger now" isn't a valid argument.

How can you say that when Jellal got one panel this entire arc? Thats how anime works, Gildarts and Laxus are still leagues stronger than Natsu.

Jellal can easily outrun a demolition fist because Natsu showed no speed feats to prove otherwise.

 

[Boomburst]

How can you say that when Jellal got one panel this entire arc? Thats how anime works, Gildarts and Laxus are still leagues stronger than Natsu.

Jellal can easily outrun a demolition fist because Natsu showed no speed feats to prove otherwise.

That's exactly my point. We've had one panel since the time skip of Jellal actually doing something. That's nowhere near enough evidence to claim that Jellal has improved just as much as Natsu has.

Natsu blitzed through a horde of thousands of monsters in a matter of seconds. Where are Jellal's speed feats that prove he can outrun demo fist?

 

[Woodenstool]

That's exactly my point. We've had one panel since the time skip of Jellal actually doing something. That's nowhere near enough evidence to claim that Jellal has improved just as much as Natsu has.

Natsu blitzed through a horde of thousands of monsters in a matter of seconds. Where are Jellal's speed feats that prove he can outrun demo fist?

We have seen Natsu but not Jellal. We can't get any clear answer because Jellal was always Natsus superior.

It took Mystogan, Erza, Natsu, and Gajeel to take down Laxus.

 

[Boomburst]

We have seen Natsu but not Jellal. We can't get any clear answer because Jellal was always Natsus superior.

It took Mystogan, Erza, Natsu, and Gajeel to take down Laxus.

Exactly, we've seen Natsu but not Jellal. We know exactly how much Natsu has improved and we've seen some incredible feats from him since the time skip, feats that Jellal pre time skip probably wouldn't have been able to accomplish. And since we have basically no evidence that Jellal has improved considerably over the past year, the benefit of the doubt has to go to Natsu here. Natsu spent that year solely to train while Jellal was off with Crime Sorciere investigating Avatar and Zeref and stuff, so it's reasonable to assume that Natsu trained a lot more than Jellal did.

And what does Laxus have to do with all this?

 

[MCG_Raven]

We have seen Natsu but not Jellal. We can't get any clear answer because Jellal was always Natsus superior.

It took Mystogan, Erza, Natsu, and Gajeel to take down Laxus.

Small explanation of why your assumption is some MAJOR BS.

Natsu was weaker in baseform than Jellal was at ToH that is true. Natsu was VERY Likely weaker than Jellal still when Jellal returned. Since then Natsu has not just grown a bit but he has grown a metric fuckton. In fact in every arc so far it was Natsu that has grown even stronger. Jellal?...He didn't even fight any opponent on his level ever since. The OS weren't on his Level or even CLOSE to that when he fought them. Why is that? Because they haven shown literally only ONE single instance of growth and that is considered non-canon by most. So you are therefore basing your assumption that Jellal had any actual superiority on PAST events not current feats. This entire Fight would never be fair because actual facts from this arc show Natsu as FAR superior because he actually has feats.

 

[Arjuna]

Natsu sure is strong but his techniques mostly feeds on Igneel's leftover magical power once he runs out it his battle strength won't be as remarkable as you claim it to be , but still Natsu can fight him on nearly equal ground and has a chance to beat him but for that he needs the NAKAMA boost which he gets when he fights to protect his family and for which Jellal has to become evil again which is not gonna happen ....so Jellal wins

Natsu only used Igneel's power against Zeref as it is a one time usage.Every other feats killing Ikusa-Tsunagi,killing 927 soldiers and destroying Jacob was done by his own power.

 

[Woodenstool]

Small explanation of why your assumption is some MAJOR BS.

Natsu was weaker in baseform than Jellal was at ToH that is true. Natsu was VERY Likely weaker than Jellal still when Jellal returned. Since then Natsu has not just grown a bit but he has grown a metric fuckton. In fact in every arc so far it was Natsu that has grown even stronger. Jellal?...He didn't even fight any opponent on his level ever since. The OS weren't on his Level or even CLOSE to that when he fought them. Why is that? Because they haven shown literally only ONE single instance of growth and that is considered non-canon by most. So you are therefore basing your assumption that Jellal had any actual superiority on PAST events not current feats. This entire Fight would never be fair because actual facts from this arc show Natsu as FAR superior because he actually has feats.

Nice fallacy.

Mirajane sits in the guild making cake and she's still Erza equal despite her not training.

Jellal hasn't shown enough feats to show that he would lose to Natsu. Works both ways.

 

[Orgastthemage]

FDK Demo-fist is not his strongest move as he isn't even exhausted after using it. He's relatively fine unlike Jellal after GC.

Natsu held back in the guild.

Natsu is currently faster than meteor. He blitzed through thousands of monster and went beyond the horizon in a split second.

Jellal needs to be stationary to do his Sema pose. It showed this twice.

Natsu's growth far exceeds Jellal so no, Jellal isn't faster in meteor.

How can he seal Natsu to the ground? Jellal has never done that to OS. And Sema ain't doing sh!t to Natsu.

Tartarus Natsu has already shown to be able to use DF at will so no, it isn't speculation.

How did Jellal win against Laxus when he got oneshotted by Ninefodder?

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 2, 2016, Original Post Date: Jul 2, 2016 ---

That still wouldn't be fast enough to stop his roar. Even though that GC is faster he still needs to set it up.

Natsu is smarter at fighting than Jellal and he shown it multiple times. Look at the battle w/the Twins he saw through all there fighting habits and use that against them in CQC.

Well Natsu showed little to no strategy whatsoever against jacob, Mard, Hades, etc.

natsu just HITS. That is all he does, he goes in and just punches his way through. He needs assistance against foes of comparable strength. The twin Dragons were not of comparable strength.

NATSU needs HELP to beat adversaries of similar strength, i just wanted to point that out. Not trying to be aggressive.

Grand Chariot was fast enough against Oracion seis plus that was PRE-skip Jellal. Natsu needs to inhale before he releases flames. His roar is not instant.

 

[Boomburst]

Nice fallacy.

Mirajane sits in the guild making cake and she's still Erza equal despite her not training.

Jellal hasn't shown enough feats to show that he would lose to Natsu. Works both ways.

I can't speak for everyone else but personally I do believe that Erza has surpassed Mirajane. I do see why others would think that they're equal though. Mira's strength comes mainly from the strength of the take overs she's acquired, similarly to how a big reason for Erza's strength is her armor. Therefore, because Mira has accumulated quite a few new powerful take overs over the course of this series, it's more forgivable that she doesn't train as much as Erza does and can still be portrayed as equal to her.

Sure Jellal hasn't shown enough feats to show he would lose but Natsu has definitely shown enough to show he would win. We have no evidence that Jellal has improved much since the time skip, while Natsu has given us a very clear idea of just how far he's come.

Out of curiosity, do you think Natsu right now could beat pre-skip Jellal?

 

[MCG_Raven]

Nice fallacy.

Mirajane sits in the guild making cake and she's still Erza equal despite her not training.

Jellal hasn't shown enough feats to show that he would lose to Natsu. Works both ways.

Okay then. Go ahead and qoute me on this statement. Show me where i ever claimed that Mirajane was Erzas equal at all? You can't because you make this claim based on what other people said. You are projecting other peoples BS onto me.

Either way. Nothing you said changes anything so i am for now gonna ignore what you say as it doesn't even matter in the discussion at hand anyways.

Now to what Daniel9dsi asked: Can Natsu beat Pre-Skip Jellal in his current state? Yes and that would be such a stomp that it wouldn't even be funny. Natsu was pretty darn durable before the skip already so his GC/Sema etc were comparably a little stronger than now (Again for those that can not read: This means they would leave Pre-Skip Natsu more Beat up from Pre-Skip Jellal than Current Jellal could hammer down on Current Natsu because Natsu has become just that much stronger.) to the point where Current Natsu would likely not even be hurting much after tanking a Sema hit so he could probably take 2-3 Semas easily and literally take out Pre-Skip Jellal in base.

 

[Brandish μ]

Grand Chariot was fast enough against Oracion seis plus that was PRE-skip Jellal. Natsu needs to inhale before he releases flames. His roar is not instant.

If we're being fair Jellal needs to do a hand sign to start the spell, which would be around the same time it takes to inhale.

Also the GC that Jellal used against Neinhart wasn't quick. This is a spell that's never been used to oneshot someone, and Jellal wanted to end Neinhart right there and then. So I think it was full-powered, and took a little longer. But I can see Jellal doing a quick one like usual, but it wouldn't be as powerful.