Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[BluePegasus]

This is the example I give when people ask me what argument from ignorance means.

So I assume you don't have proof that Age Seal doesn't work on mages with high MP?

Shame

Is that seriously your counter argument here?Why didn't Natsu use his roar? I'm out. This would be futile even if I tried.

I'd take this reply as a fact that you just don't have anything to counter my arguments.

Shame that this debate had to end so soon. Not that I expected much from you.

Do people still not get that stopping time has nothing to do with power levels?

There is only one way to get out of timestop and that's to have a counter to it. There's no NLF (<- which is a made up term) bcs she affecting the flow of time itself not an actual person. And people really need to stop using the "it's not gonna work on Acno" excuse bcs first Acno is the strongest person in this dang verse, second Acnologia has stated he has known/seen all forms of magic which means he must've met a time mage that could Timestop before so he probably had a counter, and third Acnologia is the antithesis to hax in the verse, literally no form of hax shown in the verse could work on the guy which is why Zeref wants to nuke him into oblivion with Infinite Etherion.

Also @Vici pointed out the clock in Hargeon was completely stopped which means Laxus' battle with Wahl didn't conclude until after time was unfrozen. She froze everyone in Hargeon so it is already shown that Power is not a way to counter her Age Seal.

THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!

@Dr. Monty @LucifeCollins You have to read this!!!

 

[Static]

So I assume you don't have proof that Age Seal doesn't work on mages with high MP?

Shame



I'd take this reply as a fact that you just don't have anything to counter my arguments.

Shame that this debate had to end so soon. Not that I expected much from you.



THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!

@Dr. Monty @LucifeCollins You have to read this!!!

1) If Dimaria truly stops all of time then that simply means she stopped the time of the whole universe and something on a scale as massive as that is impossible as she would need to have insane amounts of MP for that, greater than Acnologia's which would mean she is stronger than him but that's clearly not the case.

2) Common shounen logic. I have seen several instances when reality-breaking powers don't work on a character because they possess greater energy and reality > time. FT has on several instances, followed shounen logic and laws so it is quite likely that this is the case.

3) Get on Discord :P

EDIT : To further reinforce point #2 and #1 simultaneously - Even if August and Irene did possess a counter somehow, they definitely wouldn't be able to use that spell in equal to or less than a second so that means Dimaria is the strongest. However, the manga has gone out of it's way to portray and tell us that August and Irene are the strongest Spriggans so that is not the case.

 

[The President]

There is only one way to get out of timestop and that's to have a counter to it. There's no NLF (<- which is a made up term) bcs she affecting the flow of time itself not an actual person. And people really need to stop using the "it's not gonna work on Acno" excuse bcs first Acno is the strongest person in this dang verse, second Acnologia has stated he has known/seen all forms of magic which means he must've met a time mage that could Timestop before so he probably had a counter, and third Acnologia is the antithesis to hax in the verse, literally no form of hax shown in the verse could work on the guy which is why Zeref wants to nuke him into oblivion with Infinite Etherion.

Your ignoring how magic works in the Fairy Tail verse. She releases a certain amount of ethernano (how magic works) to pause those within her radius, nothing to do with actual time itself. Absolutely nothing. Zeref also has Age Seal (except he might not call it that).

Spoiler

Natsu wasn't affected. Do you know why? If Zeref was directly tapping into time itself controlling who gets affected and who doesn't wouldn't be possible, he could do it because he isn't letting his ethernano interact with Natsu (enabling to still move), evidenced by the fact that Nasu has a clear area around him. Acnologia is not immune to hax (see Universe One), you just admitted that Age Seal has a limit. FYI time itself doesn't have a limit unless we go into pseudo omnipotent places.

Also @Vici pointed out the clock in Hargeon was completely stopped which means Laxus' battle with Wahl didn't conclude until after time was unfrozen. She froze everyone in Hargeon so it is already shown that Power is not a way to counter her Age Seal.

Really? Then why was Wahl specified down a few chapters before DiMaria was?

So I assume you don't have proof that Age Seal doesn't work on mages with high MP

I'd take this reply as a fact that you just don't have anything to counter my arguments.

Shame that this debate had to end so soon. Not that I expected much from you.

It had to end so soon because you were being blatantly ignorant. You don't know what burden of proof is and when I outright SHOW you what it is you continue to unwarrantedly shift it, thats stooping to Stool levels (aka argument from ignorance, one of the worst fallacies you could possibly make).

I did continue the argument with the guy above afterall, hopefully he doesn't pull the same stunts.

 

[Skibbie]

1) If Dimaria truly stops all of time then that simply means she stopped the time of the whole universe and something on a scale as massive as that is impossible as she would need to have insane amounts of MP for that, greater than Acnologia's which would mean she is stronger than him but that's clearly not the case.

i even doubt dimaria can stop everything considering if she did then she wouldn't even be able to see due to the light being unable to bounce to your eyes.

Erza wasn't casual, based on her facial expressions, and the way she charged at Laxus, showed she isn't casual. She simply wasn't going all out, but on the other hand we know Laxus was casual, and toying with her trying to have fun. I figured out Laxus can beat Erza mid diff? You know why? Because feats. Casual Laxus was dominating Natsu and Gajeel to a point that even Gajeel called him a monster. Do you believe Erza is capable of that?
I'm giving Erza benefit of doubt for even providing a mid diff fight

you might need to reread that chapter again because casual laxus wasn't "dominating" natsu and gajeel that's the whole reason why he used his dragonslayer power in the first place because he was the one being dominated.

Jellal did not hold his own. He got smacked around then all he did is throw small nukes and fly around. Pretty much something even Mira can. But then again jellal endurance is no where even near laxus whose endurance is still below erza. Especially sense even Wendy can take hits from hades.

DF Etherion was only dominating jellal at the beginning until jellal outspeed him to the top and was almost able to cast Abyss Break that would've destroyed the whole tower and kill everyone inside DF Natsu included, if not for that plot interferance, i mean seriously? jellal was slashed by erza at the very beginning of the fight and he was only able to feel the pain right when he was about to wipe them?

also jellal was holding back the entire time because he didn't want to damage the tower

Creating a large lacrima palace, along with orbs all over the town is common sense, that magical reserves would be depleted from it. Even if you don't want to count the fight, the feats itself show that Laxus can mid diff Erza. Implications show that Laxus can oneshot Erza with a secret art. Implications can show that Erza can be severally demolished by the casual nuke that was sent toward Ajeel. Then again, you're telling me that Laxus can't oneshot Bluenote because he hasn't showed it lol. That means right? :^)

laxus' not oneshotting a healthy erza, not at all. erza's tanking feats are alot better than laxus'. the gal tanked not one, but 2 tenrou tree powered terra clamare from azuma. you know the tree that when was taken away by azuma made every FT member even gildarts a fodder level to their opponent

 

[BluePegasus]

It had to end so soon because you were being blatantly ignorant. You don't know what burden of proof is and when I outright SHOW you what it is you continue to unwarrantedly shift it, thats stooping to Stool levels (aka argument from ignorance, one of the worst fallacies you could possibly make).

I did continue the argument with the guy above afterall, hopefully he doesn't pull the same stunts.

So you call me ignorant while you basically skipped my question and tried to diss me instead? Speaking of a hypocrite. Is it so hard for you to admit that Age Seal affects everyone including mages with a high amount of MP? If it's not, than show me some evidence lad. And don't come up with your "Dimaria said Chronos is her trump card so Age Seal isn't her strongest attack" argument. She didn't even said that in the first place so it's just your own little assumption anyway.

Don't even try to downplay Woodenstool here since she basically gave more solid arguments than you did.

But whatever, @Jko his argument already destroyed your statement so there is nothing left to do here.

 

[The President]

So you call me ignorant while you basically skipped my question and tried to diss me instead? Speaking of a hypocrite. Is it so hard for you to admit that Age Seal affects everyone including mages with a high amount of MP? If it's not, than show me some evidence lad.

Your joking right? You made the claim, YOU have to prove that Age Seal works on people above her weight class, no one else does. And yet you insist that WE have to prove why it doesn't affect people above her weight class, this shows everyone that you do not know how burden of proof works. I do you the favour of showing what burden of proof is and you respond by again asking me why DiMaria cannot affect people above her weigh class. That is an argument from ignorance. You just can't prove that she affects people above her weight class so you try to shift the burden of proof on everyone else. Nice try, but it doesn't work like that.

The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim, and is not upon anyone else to disprove. The inability, or disinclination, to disprove a claim does not render that claim valid, nor give it any credence whatsoever.

Bertrand declares that a teapot is, at this very moment, in orbit around the Sun between the Earth and Mars, and that because no one can prove him wrong, his claim is therefore a valid one (You, Bluepegasus, are Bertrand in this example).

How long are you going to keep this up mate?

And don't come up with your "Dimaria said Chronos is her trump card so Age Seal isn't her strongest attack" argument. She didn't even said that in the first place so it's just your own little assumption anyway

An assumption? Really?

Spoiler

Let me show you the true power of the twelve. This implies nothing short of everything up until God Soul not being the true power of the twelve, including Age Seal.

Don't even try to downplay Woodenstool here since she basically gave more solid arguments than you did.

I'm downplaying her by comparing your argument to hers? lol k. You said it not me.

 

[BluePegasus]

Your joking right? You made the claim, YOU have to prove that Age Seal works on people above her weight class, no one else does. And yet you insist that WE have to prove why it doesn't affect people above her weight class, this shows everyone that you do not know how burden of proof works. I do you the favour of showing what burden of proof is and you respond by again asking me why DiMaria cannot affect people above her weigh class. That is an argument from ignorance. You just can't prove that she affects people above her weight class so you try to shift the burden of proof on everyone else. Nice try, but it doesn't work like that.

The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim, and is not upon anyone else to disprove. The inability, or disinclination, to disprove a claim does not render that claim valid, nor give it any credence whatsoever.

Bertrand declares that a teapot is, at this very moment, in orbit around the Sun between the Earth and Mars, and that because no one can prove him wrong, his claim is therefore a valid one (You, Bluepegasus, are Bertrand in this example).

How long are you going to keep this up mate?

Oh there it goes

You want me to give you evidence why Age Seal would work on everyone? Fine.

Spoiler

Should I spell it out for you? Otherwise you'll probably ignore it again.

"This WORLD belongs to me", "My magic has the ability to stop TIME", In my world, there is NOTHING you can do at all".

Look, it's CLEARLY stated here that her magic affects the world and that no one is able to do a thing once she casts it. I'll repeat, NO ONE.

Conclusion: Dimaria's Age Seal stops the flow of time of the world so no one will be able to do a thing. Guess what, mages with a high amount of MP belongs to these people.

Whatever, you're probably going to dodge these manga facts like you always do. Quite hopeless indeed.

An assumption? Really?

Spoiler

Let me show you the true power of the twelve. This implies nothing short of everything up until God Soul not being the true power of the twelve, including Age Seal.

I'm downplaying her by comparing your argument to hers? lol k. You said it not me.

LOL Read what you just posted lad. Dimaria said "Let me show you what it means to control time, let me show you the true power of the twelve." Since when isn't Age Seal the ability to control time? Yeah, you just ruined your own argument. What does it matter anyway if she activated her Chronos Soul after when she said that? The name "Chronos" doesn't even come to play in that sentence so just quit it already.

I think I'm done here. Reply to me if you want, but I won't reply back. I wasted enough time on you.

 

[The President]

"This WORLD belongs to me", "My magic has the ability to stop TIME", In my world, there is NOTHING you can do at all".

Look, it's CLEARLY stated here that her magic affects the world and that no one is able to do a thing once she casts it. I'll repeat, NO ONE.

Had she left it at Age Seal is a magic that cannot possibly be defeated you might have had reason to believe what you do (even then, its pretty obvious that DiMaria is just acting high and mighty, like Ajeel did when he said he was god but I can't really do anything about your bias) but she follows up with there is nothing YOU could do, directed at Wendy. Yes, we know that Wendy was not strong enough to do anything, that does not at all correlate to Spriggan level fighters and above.

LOL Read what you just posted lad. Dimaria said "Let me show you what it means to control time, let me show you the true power of the twelve." Since when isn't Age Seal the ability to control time? Yeah, you just ruined your own argument. What does it matter anyway if she activated her Chronos Soul after when she said that? The name "Chronos" doesn't even come to play in that sentence so just quit it already.

Oh right, so what she was doing before was not using Age Seal? LMAO please stop doing this to yourself. I know you have some level of reading comprehension, USE IT.

Even by your false interpretation of what she said, she is still saying she is only Spriggan level.

 

[**Silver**]

when Dimaria activated Age Seal Laxus and Wahl was still figthing nothing happened their time was not stopped... that is enough proof that Age Seal has restrictions and doesent affect Spriggan Tier opponents or superior....

 

[~Charging Lightning~]

its more of gap between laxus and natsu and erza and natsu.
if they are kinda same then it discredits jura hype after he loses to laxus

The gap between pre skip Erza and pre skip Natsu isn't the same as the gap between pre skip Laxus and pre skip Natsu. Has Erza shown that she has the power to do this to a serious Natsu and Gajeel in one attack:

http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/124/17

no one tossed anyone aside. if he had blown erza back then I would have agreed with you

Looks like someone needs to do a little bit of re-reading:
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/121/13
He grabbed her leg and tossed/threw her a couple feet back. There was no stalemate.

I was talking about start of laxus vs natsu fight. that natsu wanted to reach the top.
natsu wanted to save lucy in natsu vs blinded aria fight.
natsu watched his guild being destroyed in natsu vs gajeel
so I would assume emotion played the most role in gajeel fight than blinded aria fight then start of laxus vs natsu fight. with laxus fight, emotion moving up to maybe second place(my opinion).

Natsu wanted to reach the top AND protect the guild from Laxus. If you think about it, he actually had more motivation in his fight vs Laxus and in his foght vs Aria. I won't deny that Natsu had more determintaion against Gajeel, but that is irrelevant to my point.

those feats and hype are ciucular.
if gmg jura lose his hype. laxus loses his hype and feat. you just need to pull one card to bring the entire castle down.

But... GMG Jura didn't lose his hype.

no

Concession accepted?

erza managed to land hits on ajeel. he did not, atleast not without outside interference or erza without sight.

Those hits were landed because of the Backel distraction and Jupiter. "Taking away sight" is irrelevant since it's Ajeel's power. Atleast Ajeel was able hit Erza without outside interferences. Not to mention that Ajeel was fighting in the air as opposed to the ground/desert where he has access to more of his attacks.

no specific mention of laxus mp being near as impressive as the mention of springgan mps.
not including bradman though

That's not proof that Ajeel has more mp than Laxus. All we know about the mp of Spriggans is that it's more than Makarov's (which can be said for Laxus as well).

erza saw Bakel fly too. both made comment after he was shown flying.

Ajeel was shocked longer than Erza. She started charging him while he was still looking at Backel. Backel was one of Ajeel's strongest subordinates, so obviously he would be shocked to see him being sent flying as opposed to Erza who doesn't even know him...

so Jacob cqc >> laxus cqc ?

I don't know why you aksed this question. Are you trying to bait me because I'm a Laxus fan?

 

[LucifeCollins]

Oh there it goes

You want me to give you evidence why Age Seal would work on everyone? Fine.

Spoiler

Should I spell it out for you? Otherwise you'll probably ignore it again.

"This WORLD belongs to me", "My magic has the ability to stop TIME", In my world, there is NOTHING you can do at all".

Look, it's CLEARLY stated here that her magic affects the world and that no one is able to do a thing once she casts it. I'll repeat, NO ONE.

Conclusion: Dimaria's Age Seal stops the flow of time of the world so no one will be able to do a thing. Guess what, mages with a high amount of MP belongs to these people.

Whatever, you're probably going to dodge these manga facts like you always do. Quite hopeless indeed.



LOL Read what you just posted lad. Dimaria said "Let me show you what it means to control time, let me show you the true power of the twelve." Since when isn't Age Seal the ability to control time? Yeah, you just ruined your own argument. What does it matter anyway if she activated her Chronos Soul after when she said that? The name "Chronos" doesn't even come to play in that sentence so just quit it already.

I think I'm done here. Reply to me if you want, but I won't reply back. I wasted enough time on you.

Acnologia still alive and Belserion claimed to be the strongest and able to scare Brandish who is meant to be DiMaria's equal opposite disproves all of your points rather effortlessly. Feel free to tell me anything that says why DiMaria isn't the strongest, even though according to you she can freeze anyone in time so they can't form a thought or do anything. Please, do tell me how she isn't the strongest if Age Seal is so absolute.

 

[Spirit]

So I assume you don't have proof that Age Seal doesn't work on mages with high MP?

Shame



I'd take this reply as a fact that you just don't have anything to counter my arguments.

Shame that this debate had to end so soon. Not that I expected much from you.



THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!

@Dr. Monty @LucifeCollins You have to read this!!!

I agree. If this where a manga like Bleach where if a shinigamis Reatsu was strong enough, they could counter and nullify the effects of an opponents own power, then it would make sense. But with Fairy Tail if someone uses a time based magical ability then it effects EVERYONE regardless of their MP

 

[PeanutButterJelly]

There's no evidence that Age Seal can't people who have a higher MP than the user. People bave to stop using that argument unless it's stated in the manga.There are a various occasion where people with higher MP were affected: Acno by Universe one , Lucy&Erga by Marin are just a few.

And DiMaria's magic does have an AoE it doesn't stop all time.As stated by her as "her world" no the whole world and Ultear said her little world.

 

[Arjuna]

I think i should jump here.Age Seal is the most hax magic here.There is no counter to it unless you are a Time Mage like Ultear and Zeref.And Irene and August is stated stronger and only Irene can potentially defeat August.So that means Age Seal will not affect them for some reasons.And Acnologia well if Age Seal could defeat him then Zeref would have asked Dimaria to kill him.Even August forbade Jacob to cast Transport on Acnologia stating that it could not defeat him.So Age Seal will not work on him or otherwise Zeref would have used his own version of Age Seal(which is much superior than Dimaria's) on Acnologia.

 

[Brandish μ]

Well DiMaria is going to fight again. And as much as I like seeing Ultear, I really don't like the thought projection stuff, and especially those 'origin' power ups. So there's going to be either another time mage to fight Dim's, or there'll be another way to move in Age Seal. Brandish will likely fight her, and she can't shrink time or space, just mass (she might have more magic, wouldn't surprise me).

Imo when DiMaria met up with Kagura it left the possibility that Kagura noticed Age Seal. Not enough to figure out everything that happened, but enough to be aware that the battlefield was frozen. This doesn't prove anything, but it raises the possibility for a counter to Age Seal.

 

[Vici]

Imo when DiMaria met up with Kagura it left the possibility that Kagura noticed Age Seal. Not enough to figure out everything that happened, but enough to be aware that the battlefield was frozen. This doesn't prove anything, but it raises the possibility for a counter to Age Seal.

It's a matter for discussion as well.. IMO Kagura was referring to overpowering MP of Dimaria when she was about to release Age Seal on her or after that ( Even if Kagura words and Dimaria magic fits so well )..

PS:Kagura was mentioned on her Guild card to have the second type of magic but I seriously doubt it's a time magic ( Or even if Hiro remembers about that )

Well DiMaria is going to fight again. And as much as I like seeing Ultear, I really don't like the thought projection stuff, and especially those 'origin' power ups. So there's going to be either another time mage to fight Dim's, or there'll be another way to move in Age Seal. Brandish will likely fight her, and she can't shrink time or space, just mass (she might have more magic, wouldn't surprise me).

And this so much lets just wait and see ourselves soon enough maybe, this time, we get better explanation or more panels of frozen characters..Dimaria fight is slowly incoming and with it, I hope some answers

Although as I said in chapter discussion thread I wouldn't be surprised if Sherria manages to slay Chronos soul and Dimaria will not be able to use Age Seal anymore as well ( just a small theory and at least Sherria sacrifice will not be in vain )

 

[Brandish μ]

It's a matter for discussion as well.. IMO Kagura was referring to overpowering MP of Dimaria when she was about to release Age Seal on her or after that ( Even if Kagura words and Dimaria magic fits so well )..

This is definitely possible, it's perhaps the words Hiro wanted to use to hint what DiMaria could do. In the end Kagura was still trying to figure out what DiMaria did to her.

Although as I said in chapter discussion thread I wouldn't be surprised if Sherria manages to slay Chronos soul and Dimaria will not be able to use Age Seal anymore as well ( just a small theory and at least Sherria sacrifice will not be in vain )

That's not a bad theory. Well, Chronos is a different entity altogether, so killing it doesn't mean DiMaria dies. Will be interesting to see if this theory is true.

 

[Spirit]

This is definitely possible, it's perhaps the words Hiro wanted to use to hint what DiMaria could do. In the end Kagura was still trying to figure out what DiMaria did to her.



That's not a bad theory. Well, Chronos is a different entity altogether, so killing it doesn't mean DiMaria dies. Will be interesting to see if this theory is true.

Is DiMaria's Age Seal directly linked to Chronos himself though? I'm not sure what to make of that but I'd think it'd be pretty sweet to see Sherry passing on her GS power to Wendy, making her the Wind Dragon God Slayer. That'd also give her the right to help in facing Acnologia in my eyes as well

 

[Brandish μ]

Is DiMaria's Age Seal directly linked to Chronos himself though? I'm not sure what to make of that but I'd think it'd be pretty sweet to see Sherry passing on her GS power to Wendy, making her the Wind Dragon God Slayer. That'd also give her the right to help in facing Acnologia in my eyes as well

I think DiMaria can use Age Seal without Chronos. She's a descendant of people whose town has a shrine dedicated to Chronos, so perhaps Time magic is something these people are good at. Also in regards to take-over magic, Mira/Elf/Lis have to use the take-over to use the powers of the Satan/Beast/Animal soul. In DiMaria's case she can use Age Seal without the takeover, so it's probably hers.

As for Wendy getting GS magic from Sherria, I'm not sure about that. Well, Sherria can't give Wendy the magic because she can't use ethernano. She could teach Wendy, but there's not really any time. It would be a first if that happened though, combination slayer magic.The advantage Wind GS magic would give is Wendy being able to heal herself, so that'd be quite handy.

 

[Hermit]

I think Dimaria in her basic form can only stop time, Chronos form should give her more control over other aspects of time since 'Time' is such a vast concept, it should be more than just basic time stop, for all you know Dimaria can go to the past and future (just a wild thought)
The only reason she couldn't use her other abilities was because Ultear had shut them down and so she was basically limited to the beams (which pack quite a punch), but normally Dimaria CHRONOS Yesta should be able to control the aspects of time other than Age Seal..
Heck, for all you know she might be able to do Last Ages with no lasting consequences