Mainly because of Fairy Glitter. She can use it on her own (I believe), and it's powerful.
) so putting her at Lucy level is about as high as I would go. She could be anywhere below that in actuality.
If Juvia had done the same thing to Keith that she did before she would have almost killed herself with MBP. The unison raid with Meredy was a much more intelligent way to take him out.
I don't know what to think of Fairy Glitter to be honest. It failed against Bluenote, so that proves Cana can't use FG against a stronger opponent (at least that's how i saw it). It's pretty powerful, as shown during GMG, but if the opponent is stronger than Cana it will fail.Mainly because of Fairy Glitter. She can use it on her own (I believe), and it's powerful.
She doesn't really have feats though (she did KO Brandish
Aqua Metrias shows just how strong Lucy's attacks have the potential to be though. She also has UM. Sagittarius arrows should also work.
Actually we do since it was re-directed at Lucy, someone who certainly has more durability then Juvia and she seemed to be hurt a decent amount.
Honestly I could see Loke alone being able to do similar damage under the circumstances (he managed to bruise Jacob). Again, this is against a Gray who was doing strictly CQC and was holding back immensely (moreso then Juvia I would say, since his will power is likely a lot stronger). If Gray was as he is normally he would have likely took her out in one-two punches (see what he did to Invel, granted with more shots).
Yes he was. POF is not a valid excuse. As he was against Invel is simply a bloodlusted Gray (aka full power Gray), as he was against Juvia he was clearly holding back. Juvia even contemplated letting him win, so your overestimating Ice Locks power.
She defeated him Pre-TS with very unconventional means that absolutely no one else can do (making her the absolute counter), as far as overall power is concerned she was visibly inferior to him. Doing the same that she did Pre-TS would mean an excessive amount of exposure to magic barrier particles (which would be needless) and Keith may have learned from his mistake so he avoided doing the stupid decision.
I view Lucy as at least a tier above Juvia. Her performance against Brandish was unquestionably impressive whereas Juvias are very questionable (Struggling with Keith and her fighting Gray has a shit ton of circumstances to consider).
Lo, Gildarts breaks all their spells. Who's the strongest again? Oh it's Natsu because DEMO fist be can oneshot anyone. Lol just stop.
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She only beat him with power granted from the King. AKA bullshit power up.
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But Urano Metria didn't even take out Angel the first time Lucy used it... I know Lucy's improved A LOT but this is Brandish, a spriggan; nothing compared to O6 Angel...
Not only was it re-directed, it was magnified, so Lucy took it a few times amplified and still was not KOed, which tells me one of either three things:
I indeed think Loke would be a threat to Juvia, but I can't agree on the Gray part since he couldn't hold back as his mind was being controled. Imagine, Juvia, whose will when it comes to Gray is much stronger than anyone's will so far in Fairy Tail, was being utterly controled (until she commited suicide) and was battling/hurting Gray (although she'd much prefer to commit suicide than hurt him). The control of ice lock was so precise and strong, Juvia actually couldn't prevent from doing something she'd give her life in order to avoid; until somehow she regained control; I don't know why you'd think any of them were holding back pre-suicide.
The reason is Keyes is as unconventional as the method she used to defeat him. As you mentioned, she is Keyes counter. If he is utterly intangible, not even current Natsu should be able to defeat him. It's not like he is more powerful than "x", it's that he's got a special ability that makes him invincible for many.
Right, but that does not necessarily imply Juvia is still weak or she couldn't defeat him or anything. It just means that Keyes is as "invincible" as he's always been; not even if Juvia was spriggan tier could defeat him by conventional methods.
I, on the other hand, believe that having blocked a kick from Taurus stardress without flickering, a kick which, mind you, could push a spriggan back several dozens meters and make him break what he hit on, and kicking Lucy back with such ease and speed, makes Brandish a way more proficient cqc fighter than Lucy. And I do believe then it comes to physicals Brandish was also holding back.
I wouldn't say so, though; she seems quite proficient at cqc to me, it's just that she hasn't had the chance nor the need to fight like that. As for Lucy being above Keith, it's the same dilemma. Lucy can be as powerful as she wants, but if she does not have a proper counter for MBP intangibility I don't see how she'd beat Keyes.
I respect your opinion, and I would love to see it your way. Lucy is the protagonist and deserves more credit. I seriously love her and I'd love to see her kicking ass. But by her showings and Juvia's, I still hold them as equals, both with different strengths and weaknesses.
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Erza defeated Kyouka even without her senses.
No this is Juvia that we are talking about, not Brandish.
Huh? No it wasn't. It was compressed by Brandish and then magnified back to its original size/power at her. I see no indication that it got stronger.
Better feats...
Dude, he WAS holding back. Unless you think that Juvia is Invel level in physical stats it might as well be a fact. His hair being super saiyan like showes that he is releasing considerable energy and it wasn't like that against Juvia. There is literally nothing else to add.
Of course it is. No matter how much one would want to extrapolate Juvias physical stats they simply aren't Spriggan level or anywhere near it no matter how you put it. POF doesn't increase someones power (emotion cannot physically increase power), its just them using their power to its fullest. Plot is a terrible excuse and makes debating useless, it really does. I could just as easily say that Juvia being able to scratch Gray was plot. Everything is plot. Natsu one/two shotted Neinhart, someone who was thought to have trash durability from the start and it seems that being enchanted only increased his MP and magic attacks (the wind attack was powerful). His physical stats seem to have remained the same for the most part.
Your logic doesn't work. Keith is like that against anyone and everyone (its part of his power). Juvia can't do what she did to Keith against anyone else nor can anyone else do what she did to Keith. Keith is only immune to physical damage, any other type of attack could injure him. There are many characters that use physicals but very few that can ONLY use physicals (ie no magic or only magic that enhances physical strength).
Sure she could. A water technique with enough pressure to eradicate his particles is fair game. I mean obviously if she cannot deal with his intangibility then she cannot beat him but she does so she can.
Of course Brandish is. But Juvia isn't. In regards to physicals I highly doubt it, I don't see any reason why she would, she wasn't portrayed as a physical monster ever so her being able to destroy Lucy (someone who seems to focus on CQC Post-TS, probably the reason she thought she could spar with Natsu) physically wouldn't really make much sense to me. Simply being more better off (for lack of a better word) then Lucy physically seems sensible. Her magic of course trumps Lucy's, and thats where I think she was holding back.
I don't deny her improvement. I think she could Easy-Mid diff Keith whereas Pre-TS she was vastly inferior to him. I peg Lucy in the same tier as the likes of Bluenote, at best Juvia is sitting right under that with the likes of Tartarus Erza/Kyouka.
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Jacob was pushed backed by by Lucy and Natsu. Yeah Natsu was involved but it wasn't that much of an significant diff. Brandish grabbed her leg and sent her flying. Mind you she wasn't even trying against Lucy. She could've demolished her if she really wanted to.
Lucy and Natsu took advantage of Jacobs virgin eyes. Under normal circumstances Jacob has done the same thing to NATSU that Brandish has done to Lucy. If Brandish was capable of taking down Natsu in a physical fight she wouldn't have had much of a problem with Neinhart. Brandish is above Lucy in CQC but below Natsu and Jacob.
Just stop. This post is so biased, I can't even fathom how anyone can come with this reasoning. Gray can beat any spriggan level character of Invel's ilk provided he's blood lusted or super enraged under normal circumstances. It's hypocritical and double standard use to suggest what Gray did against Invel was plot but somehow Natsu oneshotting spriggans casually isn't. That's just blatant display of bias. Simply put, you can simply admit that everything that happens in this manga is plot related. Gildartz oneshotting Serena Historia is plot related. Gildartz making Natsu tremble in Tenrou island is plot related. There's no "poor excuse", that's just a ridiculous low-balling retort from your end. Especially considering you have zero knowledge how much Gray has trained during the one year time, and you have zero knowledge of his own power. Scary part is BASE Gray Bloodlusted knocked down a spriggan.
Well it kind of is plot considering that earlier Gray couldn't do jack shit to Invel yet now that his precious waitu is gone he beat Invel up with nothing but CQC. It isn't consistent with the rest of the fight.
Not really, Invel isn't a CQC specialist shown by the fact that most of his techniques are long to medium range, it's obvious in a CQC fight he'd lose to anyone who's a specialist..
Well the fact is Gray wasn't completely going all out on Invel, and when he decided to use DeS, that's when the battle started becoming closer. Regardless, using plot for every feats characters gain is a piss poor excuse and reasoning.
Well that's not true at all. If Natsu was losing to Neinhart before he oneshot him then I would agree. If Natsu was losing to Jacob while going all out before he oneshot him then I would agree. But that wasn't the case.
You realise Gray did have some control right? Meaning he could hold back.
Doesn't really matter. You're missing the point. Natsu was getting overwhelmed by Jacob, and was losing CQC. So yes Natsu oneshotting spriggans is PLOT related by your own logic.
Couldn't do jack shit? You do know right before Brandish interrupted Gray had the upper hand.
Natsu had to hold back tremendously against Jacob while they were in the guild. If he had gone FDKM from the very start who knows how it might have turned out.
Same way, Gray didn't go all out against Invel as he was in base mode for the majority of the battle.