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[Valhalla]

This is ludicrous. Since when does Gray's magic power surpass a god. His magic power doesn't even surpass Makarov's, and all spriggan surpass Makarov's magic power (except Bloodman). Gray cant bypass Age Seal. People are mixing his prowess as a fighter with his MP level.
When Dimaria was beaten by END, she said END's power surpasses even that of the god of time, so what i got from that is that you need power level that surpasses even Chronos. Also, Brandish's power didnt work on the demon seed because it far surpasssed her power, which means the main factor why Natsu was able to move freely in a time stop is solely because of the demon seed ( ok the last part is just a theory, but it has a backbone).

False. Dimaria and Gray were never together on the same battlefield at the same time.

Gray was deployed to defend Southern Fiore, which consisted of Dimaria in the ranks. However, being in the same region does not equate to the same battlefield. We never once see them cross paths, neither was it implied Gray and the rest were affected by Age Seal when Dimaria employed it. Let's not get too carried away in overhyping the spell. It is unlikely Dimaria's Age Seal even possess the same AoE as someone like Wahl, when she incorrectly surmises the range Wahl's attacks were capable of.

Battlefield, region, what are you talking about. Gray was on the very same battlefield as the sky sisters, Lamia scale, Mermaid Heel, Dimaria, and Alvarez army. The battlefield was just outside Hargeon. Also Dimaria's Age seal is an all-world spell. She even stated that when she casts her magic, she becomes alone in the world, even the wiki is stating that its an all-world spell.

 

[LaGOAT]

If you remember Brandish easily enlarged that Tumour without even Natsu knowing in chapter 501.So it is not like that she finds it easier to shrink wounds than that tumour when it was possible.

In CR translation she says,"Whatever it is,is far more powerful than me".

Ok fine no problem with this.But as she didn't say the same regarding Gray,we can easily assume Hiro Sensei is saying END's Curse power>Gray's Magic power.If we say otherwise it's denying what the author is saying.


And secondly when did Minerva and Jiemma fought Gray that you are saying Des Magic isn't that effective on Demonised humans.Jiemma only hit Gray,Gray didn't even hit him with Des Magic.And if we go back further we have seen full canon evidence of Des Magic working on Demonised Humans.Gray defeated Doriate in Sun Village with Des Magic.



Did people forget this?I have a feeling people don't want to give credit to END of surviving against a Slayer,and even in this arc we have seen how Slayer magic is devastating.Dragon Irene got oneshotted by DS Magic.The fight had lot of CQC but it doesn't change the fact that END was hit numerous times by Des Magic.


And as it is the version we have seen of END may be his final version.There is no evidence of END having a full transformation.



Gray was neither above Base nor Etherious at that point of time.Mard had 6000 Curse power-more than 2.5x than Silver.


And yeah your argument doesn't apply here.Natsu was in his Base but still his body was powered by END's Curse.And i hope you don't think Base unconscious Natsu can perform a feat which END cannot.

OOOOOK.. brandish magic work on dimaria too so idk see ur point there. Age seal and brandish command T works on BASE NATSU not END huge difference idk what mean by natsu in end body same with base gray not des gray. No1 is downgrading end it's how u guys are discrediting gray. I'm not saying slayer advantage doesn't take a factor but to say it's only reason why gray took a chance is BS. That would mean any1 with a slayer advantage would perform the same feats. Gray is strong enough to keep up with END and the fact that he was using nameless spells speak volumes. Des gray=END. Age seal is overrated. When brandish used command t both natsu and gray were both at base/not going all out

 

[Arjuna]

OOOOOK.. brandish magic work on dimaria too so idk see ur point there. Age seal and brandish command T works on BASE NATSU not END huge difference idk what mean by natsu in end body same with base gray not des gray. No1 is downgrading end it's how u guys are discrediting gray. I'm not saying slayer advantage doesn't take a factor but to say it's only reason why gray took a chance is BS. That would mean any1 with a slayer advantage would perform the same feats. Gray is strong enough to keep up with END and the fact that he wasn't using nameless spells speak volumes. Des gray=END. Age seal is overrated. When brandish used command t both natsu and gray were both at base/not going all out

Dimaria was hand-cuffed with Magic Seals that time.So she was basically magic less.

And by saying this i don't know what you hint at.Dimaria's Age Seal worked on Brandish whose magic in turn worked on Gray So even if Brandish's magic works on Dimaria it doesn't mean Gray can resist Age Seal.

Gray was strong no doubt.Infact any mage below Gray even with Des Magic would have got killed.But sadly some users are completely ignoring the Slaying advantage here.

And don't forget neither did END use any named spells either.

Gray was facing the mortal enemy of his life at point,even if he doesn't use named spell doesn't mean he was holding back.


Gray first has to show feats of resisting Command T then we will talk about Age Seal.And has to show to resisting it in an unconscious state like END if we are to consider him on the level of END's power,who leave alone going all out,was not even conscious.

 

[LaGOAT]

This is ludicrous. Since when does Gray's magic power surpass a god. His magic power doesn't even surpass Makarov's, and all spriggan surpass Makarov's magic power (except Bloodman). Gray cant bypass Age Seal. People are mixing his prowess as a fighter with his MP level.
When Dimaria was beaten by END, she said END's power surpasses even that of the god of time, so what i got from that is that you need power level that surpasses even Chronos. Also, Brandish's power didnt work on the demon seed because it far surpasssed her power, which means the main factor why Natsu was able to move freely in a time stop is solely because of the demon seed ( ok the last part is just a theory, but it has a backbone).



Battlefield, region, what are you talking about. Gray was on the very same battlefield as the sky sisters, Lamia scale, Mermaid Heel, Dimaria, and Alvarez army. The battlefield was just outside Hargeon. Also Dimaria's Age seal is an all-world spell. She even stated that when she casts her magic, she becomes alone in the world, even the wiki is stating that its an all-world spell.

So u believe that END>gildartz?

 

[Valhalla]

So u believe that END>gildartz?

Pretty much, yeah and you believe Gildarts>END?

 

[Jko]

False. Dimaria and Gray were never together on the same battlefield at the same time.

Gray was deployed to defend Southern Fiore, which consisted of Dimaria in the ranks. However, being in the same region does not equate to the same battlefield. We never once see them cross paths, neither was it implied Gray and the rest were affected by Age Seal when Dimaria employed it. Let's not get too carried away in overhyping the spell. It is unlikely Dimaria's Age Seal even possess the same AoE as someone like Wahl, when she incorrectly surmises the range Wahl's attacks were capable of.

Spoiler

While it has never been stated how huge is Southern Fiore, the distance from the port to FT guild hall is a good 370km apart. And baby, that would mean it could fit a State from New York to Washington. Which really isn't anything to be surprise about as Fiore is a goddamn country, and Magnolia is just a city. In addition, the characters and battles are dynamic. It is erroneous to assume Gray and Dimaria were in the proximity of one another.



Brandish's spell also worked on Natsu too. It could work on Natsu and Gray because they were not as strong as they are now. Fairy Tail is a series. A series where the characters grows and develops steadily as the story progresses, be it in a good or bad way. That is another topic to discuss.

Gray and Natsu are stronger than they were when they were left astounded by Brandish's magic power during her introduction. Mashima went the extra mile to show us how much the tables have turned when Brandish and Dimaria were unable to comprehend Natsu's strength in his fight with Neinhart, and when END awakened for the first time, respectively.

END is an Etherious. An Etherious is driven by the single-minded inborn desire to kill Zeref. Natsu at the point of time was that.

Spoiler

Holding back? Ludicrous.

Gray was stalemating Natsu here. Not willing to concede this point is blatant downplaying. We don't know how much of an slayer advantage does Gray has here, because it is not clear how far has Natsu demonized here. Regardless, most of their exchange here was CQC and melee. Neither of them was seen busting out their strongest techniques against the other.

Gray has grown from molding static ice creations with both his hands, to instantaneously freezing Natsu's flames with a swipe of a hand. And telepathically separating his ice then freely control it in mid-air to direct them towards his foe. Neither of them was able to wound the other despite landing hits. Natsu was like the flat track bully he usually is, overpowering his way out with brute force. Gray was actually outmaneuvering him.

Spoiler

And this is the Gray who was already wounded after his fight with Invel, running mostly on adrenaline. This, however is a how traumatised a fresh Dimaria was after getting brutalized by Natsu.

Spoiler

Age Seal has her limitations. It is not the be-all, end-all as some choose to believe. Otherwise we wouldn't have seen Dimaria employing Age Seal so quickly in almost all her fights. Nobody can be that daft to do so. The move she actually kept and only employed it when Age Seal was negated, was her Chronos soul takeover. Unfortunately we have fighters here who can overcome her strength in that form.

Gray was on the exact same battlefield as Wendy before Age Seal was launched, which was outside the city.

Spoiler

Age Seal affected even the clock tower in the city

Spoiler

and the place Ultear was and she was last seen near Crocus, which is further than Magnolia.

Spoiler

DiMaria stops the fabric of time itself she doesn't make a little pocket dimension like you're implying. Lastly, the battlefield was not 370 km long it was about 30-40 km. Lol they were battling at Hargeon not the entire southern front.

Gray was already shown to be affected as everyone else in Hargeon. END doesn't even use MP in the first place, and was never noted on his MP. Walking through time is not scaleable at all. Gray has to do the feat himself not piggyback off Natsu's feat, and say lol since he can do it I can do it. That's not how it works. Gray has shown no counter to timestop only END has and that's because he is anti-hax.

 

[Star Frost]

False. Dimaria and Gray were never together on the same battlefield at the same time.

Gray was deployed to defend Southern Fiore, which consisted of Dimaria in the ranks. However, being in the same region does not equate to the same battlefield. We never once see them cross paths, neither was it implied Gray and the rest were affected by Age Seal when Dimaria employed it. Let's not get too carried away in overhyping the spell. It is unlikely Dimaria's Age Seal even possess the same AoE as someone like Wahl, when she incorrectly surmises the range Wahl's attacks were capable of.

Actually Gray was there in the same region as Dimaria was the which is at the battlefield where they were fighting those fodders here: http://m.mangatown.com/manga/fairy_tail/v38/c474/11.html which is the chapter Dimaria showcased her magic.

 

[**Silver**]

OOOOOK.. brandish magic work on dimaria too so idk see ur point there. Age seal and brandish command T works on BASE NATSU not END huge difference idk what mean by natsu in end body same with base gray not des gray. No1 is downgrading end it's how u guys are discrediting gray. I'm not saying slayer advantage doesn't take a factor but to say it's only reason why gray took a chance is BS. That would mean any1 with a slayer advantage would perform the same feats. Gray is strong enough to keep up with END and the fact that he was using nameless spells speak volumes. Des gray=END. Age seal is overrated. When brandish used command t both natsu and gray were both at base/not going all out

Gray was fighting egually against Natsu and people here is saying that Dimaria has higher Magic power than Gray is this joke

again and again all spriggans is not egual

August/Irene magic power---->Gildarts/Laxus/GodSerena/Wahl----->Dimaria/Brandish/Ajeel

Fairytail mages improved during the time-skip

 

[LaGOAT]

Pretty much, yeah and you believe Gildarts>END?

Yes I do end feats was causally stop by erza. so u also Believe erza>gray=>END>dimaria>gildartz

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2017 ---

Gray was on the exact same battlefield as Wendy before Age Seal was launched, which was outside the city.

Spoiler

Age Seal affected even the clock tower in the city

Spoiler

and the place Ultear was and she was last seen near Crocus, which is further than Magnolia.

Spoiler

DiMaria stops the fabric of time itself she doesn't make a little pocket dimension like you're implying. Lastly, the battlefield was not 370 km long it was about 30-40 km. Lol they were battling at Hargeon not the entire southern front.

Gray was already shown to be affected as everyone else in Hargeon. END doesn't even use MP in the first place, and was never noted on his MP. Walking through time is not scaleable at all. Gray has to do the feat himself not piggyback off Natsu's feat, and say lol since he can do it I can do it. That's not how it works. Gray has shown no counter to timestop only END has and that's because he is anti-hax.

show a feat where human Irene could passed thru dimaria time seal

 

[Jko]

Yes I do end feats was causally stop by erza. so u also Believe erza>gray=>END>dimaria>gildartz

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2017 ---

show a feat where human Irene could passed thru dimaria time seal

Dragon Resistance or enchantments. Her power has negated hax like mass manipulation, and she can use practically any spell via enchantment. There's also the fact DiMaria can't hurt Irene w/o DS magic. Plus Irene's enchantment has reality warping properties.

August counter (Nullifies and Copies Magic)
Zeref counter (Has timestop)
Acno counter (Dragon of Magic)
END (Anti-Hax as he negated MM and TS w/o even using MP or CP)
Obviously Irene will have a counter as well or DiMaria would be second.

 

[LaGOAT]

Dragon Resistance or enchantments. Her power has negated hax like mass manipulation, and she can use practically any spell via enchantment. There's also the fact DiMaria can't hurt Irene w/o DS magic. Plus Irene's enchantment has reality warping properties.

August counter (Nullifies and Copies Magic)
Zeref counter (Has timestop)
Acno counter (Dragon of Magic)
END (Anti-Hax as he negated MM and TS w/o even using MP or CP)
Obviously Irene will have a counter as well or DiMaria would be second.

Clicking her teeth is faster than her dragon transformation so again show me a feat that human Irene can break thru time stop

 

[Jko]

Gray was fighting egually against Natsu and people here is saying that Dimaria has higher Magic power than Gray is this joke

again and again all spriggans is not egual

August/Irene magic power---->Gildarts/Laxus/GodSerena/Wahl----->Dimaria/Brandish/Ajeel

Fairytail mages improved during the time-skip

Gray along with Wall, Laxus, and Gray were time stopped in Hargeon. There's actual proof. Second it was Pseudo END not real END. Gray would've got curbed by real END.

 

[LaGOAT]

Gray along with Wall, Laxus, and Gray were time stopped in Hargeon. There's actual proof. Second it was Pseudo END not real END. Gray would've got curbed by real END.

Ur assuming without proof show me proof that gray and laxus was affected and shown me proof that wasn't the real END

 

[Jko]

Clicking her teeth is faster than her dragon transformation so again show me a feat that human Irene can break thru time stop

Irene is a Dragon. You do know that human physique is just a skin which means that she is still a Dragon underneath it. There's no such thing as "Human" Irene as she is and always was a Dragon. Reality Warping > Timestop. You just ignored the rest of my post as well.

 

[LaGOAT]

Ur not

Irene is a Dragon. You do know that human physique is just a skin which means that she is still a Dragon underneath it. There's no such thing as "Human" Irene as she is and always was a Dragon. Reality Warping > Timestop. You just ignored the rest of my post as well.

ur not getting the point dimaria solos be4 she transforms by ur logic idc if she is a dragon r not she gets solo be4 transformation. No if that's the case erza wouldn't need Wendy to enchant her sword to damage her ur just speculating without any proof i need proof show me proof

 

[Jko]

Ur assuming without proof show me proof that gray and laxus was affected and shown me proof that wasn't the real END

Not assuming anything. I've shown on panel facts that Hargeon was affected by TS. DiMaria would've seen Wall's nuke and Laxus L bolt and would've been shocked otherwise. Even Ultear, who was last seen near Crocus, was in TS as well; it's the reason her youthful thought projection appeared. END's book has been sealed the entire time or have you missed the entire Tartarus arc? END's full power can't come out until he's unsealed. Full power END would curbstomp the entire guild with the hype he has. And you think Gray has chance at fighting the actual END? Lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2017 ---

Ur not

ur not getting the point dimaria solos be4 she transforms by ur logic idc if she is a dragon r not she gets solo be4 transformation. No if that's the case erza wouldn't need Wendy to enchant her sword to damage her ur just speculation without any proof in need proof show me proof

You are not getting it the transformation is just coming out of a skin. It's just a change in appearance. There's no such thing as "Human" Irene because she is a D R A G O N therefore DiMaria can't harm her. Wendy needed to enchant Erza in order for Erza to hurt Irene as Erza can't hurt Irene w/o DS. What are you not understanding? Her enchantments again have Reality Warping properties. RW > TS. You're clearly ignoring other things I've clearly stated in my initial post.

 

[LaGOAT]

Not assuming anything. I've shown on panel facts that Hargeon was affected by TS. DiMaria would've seen Wall's nuke and Laxus L bolt and would've been shocked otherwise. Third even Ultear who was last seen near Crocus was in TS as well it's the reason her youthful thought projection appeared. END's book has been sealed the entire time or have you missed the entire Tartarus arc? END's full power can't come out until he's unsealed. Full power END would curbstomp the entire guild with the hype he has. And you think Gray has cance at fighting the actual END? Lol.

See keyword hype hype doesn't always translation to power idc about tartrous because he wasnt END the end we saw fought gray and ur assuming that wasn't real END without proof bro I can keep going on until u show me proof. When she use TS we didn't see the whole town froze only the area they were. Just like when we saw ajeel use sand world we saw it effected the whole town what ur saying is all speculation.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2017 ---

Not assuming anything. I've shown on panel facts that Hargeon was affected by TS. DiMaria would've seen Wall's nuke and Laxus L bolt and would've been shocked otherwise. Even Ultear, who was last seen near Crocus, was in TS as well; it's the reason her youthful thought projection appeared. END's book has been sealed the entire time or have you missed the entire Tartarus arc? END's full power can't come out until he's unsealed. Full power END would curbstomp the entire guild with the hype he has. And you think Gray has cance at fighting the actual END? Lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2017 ---

You are not getting it the transformation is just coming out of a skin. It's just a change in appearance. There's no such thing as "Human" Irene because she is a D R A G O N therefore DiMaria can't harm her. Wendy needed to enchant Erza in order for Erza to hurt Irene as Erza can't hurt Irene w/o DS. What are you not understanding? Her enchantments again have Reality Warping properties. RW > TS. You're clearly ignoring other things I've clearly stated in my initial post.

Erza was able to put damage on Irene in her human form what r u talking about? dimaria TS is faster than Irene performing an attack

 

[Jko]

See keyword hype hype doesn't always translation to power idc about tartrous because he wasnt END the end we saw fought gray and ur assuming that wasn't real END without proof bro I can keep going on until u show me proof. When she use TS we didn't see the whole town froze only the area they were. Just like when we saw ajeel use sand world we saw it effected the whole town what ur saying is all speculation.

Key word Acno fears END. Acno with his eyes close and two hands behind his back would curbstomp the guild so him actually thinking END is a threat puts END above the entire guild. Tartarus arc is literally about unsealing END's book. It's the reason they were enacting the face spell. Currently the book is still sealed. Yes we saw the town frozen there's literally a clock tower in the town that shows it. It's not speculation as she would've noted Laxus v Wall otherwise.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2017 ---

See keyword hype hype doesn't always translation to power idc about tartrous because he wasnt END the end we saw fought gray and ur assuming that wasn't real END without proof bro I can keep going on until u show me proof. When she use TS we didn't see the whole town froze only the area they were. Just like when we saw ajeel use sand world we saw it effected the whole town what ur saying is all speculation.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2017 ---

Erza was able to put damage on Irene in her human form what r u talking about? dimaria TS is faster than Irene performing an attack

No she didn't. Wendy hurt Irene w/DS magic, Erza never hurt Irene she just made the "Human" skin bleed but never actually made Irene's real body bleed nor hurt her. She was unharmed as seen when she unsheathe her skin and went her Dragon form. Irene can perform enchantments with a thought, and has better speed feats than DiMaria.

 

[Tirl]

You are not getting it the transformation is just coming out of a skin. It's just a change in appearance. There's no such thing as "Human" Irene because she is a D R A G O N therefore DiMaria can't harm her. Wendy needed to enchant Erza in order for Erza to hurt Irene as Erza can't hurt Irene w/o DS. What are you not understanding? Her enchantments again have Reality Warping properties. RW > TS. You're clearly ignoring other things I've clearly stated in my initial post.

I agree with you, but Erza harm Irene with her own sword

Spoiler

When she use TS we didn't see the whole town froze only the area they were.

Ultear was able to walk in TS so that means that TS was on whole world. Ultear wasn't in town in that moment to be affected by TS if it had too small area.

 

[LaGOAT]

Key word Acno fears END. Acno ith his eyes close and two hands behind his back would curbstomp the guild so him actually thinking END is a threat puts END above the entire guild. Tartarus arc is literally about unsealing END's book. It's the reason they were enacting the face spell. Currently the book is still sealed. Yes we saw the town frozen there's literally a clock tower in the town that shows it. It's not speculation as she would've noted Laxus v Wall otherwise.

he also think ds are a threat that why he killing them does that mean ds>acno?? Again assumption ingeel said that doesn't mean anco himself think so if that the case zeref wouldn't think the END can't kill him and let him kill ancologia. The clock in the town doesn't show the whole time is frozen in time it's could be a AOE attack. I need proof bro