Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2018] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Avok]

Gintama as big as Naruto?

 

[WyldViolet]

You people keep missing the point...

 

[ChocoBar9]

Gintama as big as Naruto?

I think he means that Gintama will end at over 70 volumes so its "as big" as Naruto.

You people keep missing the point...

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Gintama is as impactful as Slam Dunk and Kochikame.

 

[shoyoboyo]

I don't have much to say on the topic. Just that no one is down playing Gintama, it's more like people are giving it a little too much credit.

 

[ChocoBar9]

^I admit I was. But then again any manga that can last for over a decade is an achievement in itself.

 

[Heiji]

Cut the nonsense people. Gintama was last recorded at 51 million worldwide on 69 volumes. It's not even breathing on a mil a volume.

For Gintama its 53 millions (print) for the 70th first volumes in Japan.

 

[TyVip]

For a gag manga in general, couldn't an author time the chapter so the final chapter collide with your turn for a cover page? We know they receive these information about CPs, Covers, etc.. way in advance.

I know it is harder to do for a battle manga.

 

[Nemesis]

Holy fuck.... Netflix just announced they're partnering with BONES, Production I.G. and Studio Wit. I always thought this was just a daydream of mine, but to think it would actually happen....

If rumors and speculations are true about Netflix trying to cut out the production committee and pumping a godawful amount of money into their Anime projects that Studios never thought would happen, then I can totally see Netflix going

Netflix: Hey, we want to distribute MHA on our platform too.
Wakana: And your asking price is?
Netflix: 5 billion Yen. And half of that will go to the AM vs AFO fight alone.
Wakana: *Jawdrops*

*Wakana and Kenji meets*
Kenji: So, how did the meeting go?
Wakana: *hands the cheque and agreement*
Kenji: *has exact same reaction*
Wakana: *takes out her strongest Sake* A toast, Kenji-san?
Kenji: Fuck, thanks *swigs down cup*

*Meeting with Yuta-pon*

Yuta-pon: You want to pay me how MUCH!!?
Kenji: Here, the big boss told me to share with you, you're gonna need it. *shares sake*

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ne...-with-production-i.g-bones-wit-studio/.127164

I don't think that Netflix is going to destroy the production committee. Even the titles distributed by them still have the committee like Devilman that is produced by Aniplex and Dynamic Planning. The future titles probably will be in the same vein but using netflix as a platform.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 1, 2018 ---

No, they won't be on TV. These are going to be legit Netflix original productions from now on and they'll only be on Netflix.


I don't care about weekly discussions as long as we get a good anime. I doubt they will get involved with any WSJ adaptation.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 31, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 31, 2018 ---

I don't think so, because I'm sure the Japanese side would also want this to air on TV for as much exposure as possible.

People said the same about Devilman and Netflix isn't listed as a producer, just Aniplex and Dynamic Productions which are part of the committee. And Devilman just like B: The Beginning are from this new batch of anime that they got the exclusive rights as distributors. So yeah, it's not really original besides marketing reasons. The same is true for most of their catalogue, including their series.

 

[101nemesis]

That doesn't make any sense. Its IMPACT is that its among the longest running manga seriesin Japan with the highest volume count and the 3rd best selling series to run in the manga. I'm going to end this conversation with a simple answer which you have failed to answer WHAT HAS GINTAMA DONE TO EARN THE HONOR OF BEING ON THE COVER FOR ITS FINAL CHAPTER OVER NARUTO. I'm downplaying Gintama much like you are downplaying Naruto and Kochikame the only difference is that I actually have evidence to support their impact for WSJ while you haven't done any for Gintama.

Wait, when did I even downplay Kochikame? My comments were clearly emphasizing how Kochikame's role is far above Naruto. If anything, I was using your logic in assessing what criteria defines "impact" which is probably what made it feel like I was downplaying it. So I guess in a sense, your thinking that I'm downplaying Kochikame for throwing its recent low sales into the discussion, as a valid point, proves how flawed your own logic is for throwing around Gintama's low sales in comparison to battle manga? *shrugs*

Anyway, I'll play your game for a bit.
Gintama is WSJ's most successful comedy series since Kinnikuman (1979). Considering Kochikame and Kinnikuman as both comedy series, Gintama is the 3rd most selling comedy series in WSJ history. Arguably, one of the top 2 or 3 most successful media franchies of WSJ in recent years (anime DVD/BD sales, movie box office and movie BD/dvd sales with TV ratings). And possibly the most successful comedy anime series from WSJ since Kinnikuman*.
*Note - I don't know how well Kinnikuman did because I don't have any data and too lazy to search but lets just assume it did well, ok?

Some quick facts from quick research incoming;
Gintama's last animated movie
- grossed USD15.7 million in Japan Boxoffice.
- It sold 61k copies in limited pressing and 24k in regular edition in BD/DVD. That's a total of 85k copies.
- It got a rating of 2.4% when it came on TV.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-08-25/japanese-box-office-august-17-18 (read)
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-02-18/japan-animation-dvd-ranking-february-10-16 (13 and 19)
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ne...ation-tv-ranking-december-29-january-4/.83367 (Check the opening para of the article)

Not comparing. I've never compared Naruto to Gintama. To re-iterate, I was just supporting the fact that Gintama is a big fucking thing in Japan. You guys did the comparing. But since we are comparing now;

Boruto -Naruto the Movie (the most successful movie from Naruto's franchise)
- sold 86k copies in BD/DVD sales (limited and normal editions combined).
- Made USD 22 million in boxoffice.
- It aired on TV and got a paltry 0.9% rating.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ne...domestic-japanese-films-of-2015-listed/.98019 (Number 11)
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ne...tion-tv-ranking-december-26-january-1/.110955(Check the opening para of the article)
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ne...an-on-blu-ray-disc-dvd-by-series-2016/.110415 (Number 15 is Boruto)

Aside from the obvious thing that BD/DVD sales for these 2 were pretty much same. Box office wise, Boruto movie sold more (USD 7 million) but ratings wise on TV, Gintama did way better (by 1.5%).

Then comes the comparison on usual anime rating and DVD/BD sales.
I'm not gonna do this research for you because I'm tired af but I'm sure those who know anime data can tell you that while Naruto has had better TV ratings, Gintama has had way superior BD/DVD sales for seasons. Heck, stop waiting for anyone to tell you. Go to animenewsnetwork.com and check it out for yourself. You can get enough data from there if you wanted to.

Edit - I'll make it even easier for you to do your own research
Naruto Shippuden anime
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=7293
Gintama
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=6236
For BD/DVD sales for both Gintama and Naruto - Press Ctrl + f and type "DVD Ranking". Click on the links and check the data
For TV ratings in Naruto's case - Press Ctrl + f and type "TV Ranking". Click on the links and check the data. You'll notice Naruto's ratings disappeared after a certain date because the ratings fell down due to constant fillers.
Note - Gintama seasons are split. So click on each season on the top and then search. Naruto's is one thing.

Going by my above posts, and not taking into consideration the genre of the original series, any layman would say that Naruto and Gintama are pretty similar to each other. One upping the other in one field but losing in another field. Throw in the genre and you start to realize how impressive Gintama's stats truly are.

But then you throw in sales for manga.
This is when it gets tricky because essentially you're comparing a wide reaching battle manga to a comedy manga which has way less readers. Going by battle manga standards,Naruto is in the top tier. Going by comedy manga, Gintama is top tier. You don't evaluate them together under one microscope. You evaluate the two separately under their specific genre. It's literally like comparing two movies of different genre together. Do comedy movies earn more or do action movies? But when comedy movies break the comedy records, why does it make the headline? Because it broke the record in that specific genre.

There are many manga above Gintama in sales. But THAT IS NOT THE POINT. It's what Gintama brought into the comedy genre in a shounen magazine. It's how successful it was as a comedy manga and how long it has been since something so significant came into WSJ in the comedy genre.
Tell me again that I'm not using facts to support my answer.

I NEVER compared Naruto or Gintama. Even in all my previous statements, I said I'd put these 2 series together.
Rica or someone believed Gintama might get Cover for it's end. It was a logical assumption with nothing wrong with it. It was YOU guys who felt threatened by the fact that a series, in your opinion, which is not as big as Naruto can get cover for its end when Naruto didn't. You are the ones who brought in Naruto and started comparing the two without understanding the reason why some feel Gintama might get it.

Anyway, I'm done with this. I have other things to do and I just wasted about an hour on this comment finding some quick figures. Cheers.

 

[SharkBait]

Id just hope Haikyuu!! s4 and Owari no Serafu continuation isnt Netflix exklusive.

I cant believe so many people love centralized monopolies in media.

 

[ChocoBar9]

stuff

You do realize that you've literally proved my point by showcasing that Gintama's claim to fame was entirely the anime and NOT the manga right? You can't even say Gintama's manga sales are impressive for a comedy manga because there's already a plethora of comedy manga that sell better than it. Also good job omitting Naruto's merchandise sales which is the bread and butter of it more so than its DVD/BD sales. And even your assertion of it being the best selling comedy since Kinikuman is incorrect because Assassination Classroom sold more than it per volume in its 4 year stint than Gintama did in 14 years. Despite all your efforts you still have not proven Gintama's impact only proving that it would have just died if the anime wasn't a hit.

 

[savethecat]

Did a ToC not come out yet?

 

[TyVip]

Did a ToC not come out yet?

it did, yonkou posted it.

 

[Tamil]

What are the top selling comedy series in WSJ anyway? Like a top 10...

 

[SharkBait]

Did a ToC not come out yet?

i saw one floating around the youtube sphere, but i dont know if its a reliable source.

 

[OfficialHxH]

i saw one floating around the youtube sphere, but i dont know if its a reliable source.

Check back in the thread

 

[iceemperor]

Dr. Stone came in fourth in the ranking of "Comics/Manga that store employees all over Japan recommend". Its a voting system with a total of 1312 store employees voting.

http://www.nippan.co.jp/news/osusume_comic2018_0201/

 

[101nemesis]

Some more stuff

Sigh. On a manga forum but apparently this is new information. Okay, let me ask you this.
Isn't EVERY manga's claim to fame via the anime? Isn't this what every mangaka(or most) joining magazines like WSJ hope for? Because that's the best way to reach the gold mine of creating a franchise?
The merchandise which you're bringing up saying it is the bread and butter for Naruto obviously came into existence because of the anime because of the popularity of said anime and because that popularity helped create a bankable franchise. So doesn't that also mean that Naruto would've died if not for the anime? Like 99% of popular manga out there?
SnK blew up because of the anime. Bleach blew up because of the anime. Every series out there is popular because anime helps spread it. If not for anime, manga would reach their peak sales and just decline either slowly or quickly. Very few would remain stagnant and maintain their sales and there is absolutely no way to predict which.

Now since you've mentioned the plethora of comedy manga in WSJ selling more than Gintama, name 5 of them running in WSJ or has run in WSJ from when Gintama came in. I shall wait. If you want, name the ones that sold more per volume even before Gintama came in. Shouldn't be hard since you stated plethora.
AC is a million plus seller. Sure, but why aren't you bringing in longevity argument now, you know, like how Gintama had already lasted a decade by then? Or is that something you pick out only when you think is suitable? Also, with that comparison, Death Note is bigger than Naruto because it has sold over 30 million with 12 volumes which means it has volume sales of more than 2 million each. Naruto has only 130 million in Japan from 72 volumes meaning less than 2 million per volume. So, I guess we should just assume Death Note was more popular and had a bigger impact?

 

[ruggia]

SnK blew up because of the anime

SnK was already selling 700-800k prior to the anime.

name the ones that sold more per volume even before Gintama came in

Dr. Slump?

 

[TyVip]

Now since you've mentioned the plethora of comedy manga in WSJ selling more than Gintama, name 5 of them running in WSJ or has run in WSJ from when Gintama came in. I shall wait. If you want, name the ones that sold more per volume even before Gintama came in.

Not picking side here but there are a few. Also depends on your definition of comedy. I just put out a few here. I also don't know what's Gintama peak is xD

Kochikame
Magical Taluluto (12.6 mil 21 volumes)
Dr Slump ( 35 millions 18 vols)
Pyuu to Fuku! Jaguar (8.5 million 20 vols)
Midori no Makibao (9 million 16 vols)
Chinyuuki (4 million 6 vols)
****** Kamen ( 6 million 6 vols)
Sexy Commando Masaru-san ( 8.5 millions 7 vols)
If you count early Dragonball as comedy...

RomCom(?)
Kimagure Orange Road (20 mil 18 vols)
Shape Up Ran ( 5.5 mil 14 vols)
High School! Kimengumi (10 mil 20 vols)
--------

I do think at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Just a fact that Naruto received a cover page on its chapter 695, which is the final climax of the entire manga. Which i think is way cooler than the closing cover (ending)