Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2018] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[xAsum0x]

Haikyuu, MHA, HxH 2011 might as well be perfect adaptations

 

[cody]

Haikyuu, MHA, HxH 2011 might as well hbe e perfect adaptations

And Gintama, at least what I've seen of it. I don't even need perfect adaptations or anything, but I would like an adaptation that is at least watchable and not complete shit, but we usually don't even get that watchable adaptation, sadly enough . Gotta love the anime industry. It hasn't been that bad for Jump lately though.

 

[101nemesis]

Last time I say this: THere is no such thing as a perfect anime/manga adaption and No such thing as perfect writing with that said its time to give up on perfection and be thankful for what we got. I am happy with any studio to adapt Jump Manga, but if you choose this see it as a negative then its a YOU problem not the studio's fault, Its YOU remember you can ignore this advice and carry on but Just remember if you are expecting a perfect adaption then you are in for a sad future. I hated Black Clover because I was stupid and Listened to other people talking how "Generic" and "Awful" it was but I saw Sharkbait was the only person who like it. There is no such thing as Blindly Liking something it's call being Positive. I don't post much I just Observe each of your comments and seeing a pattern. There is only constant Improvements not Perfection. Enjoy Life and don't take it seriously.

Actually it's based on facts from previous examples and adaptations that a studio does. It's not a YOU problem, its a STUDIO problem. Yeah, we should be happy for an anime adaptation but we are also allowed to be critical about which studio gets to do it especially when you have past blunders in abundance. It's like people getting skeptical about a director for upcoming movies. If the past movies directed by the person are horrible or just meh at best, then people will be skeptical about his new work.
Anyway, no matter what people say about the studio, most will watch it and give it a go.
I agree on the "Enjoy Life and don't take it seriously" comment.

Even the "no blindly liking something" bit is something I sort of agree on. But that category of people do exist.
It is a fact that those who do like a series tend to be more supportive or defensive about said series than a 3rd person who has not particular interest in the series.
And then there are those who like a series solely because of the good looking characters or their favorite actors. It's there in manga/anime, it's there in music, it's there in movies and basically all forms of media. I'm not making this up. I come from India where the top few movie actors are considered Gods (as frustrating as it is). No matter how horrible the movie and the acting is, a movie by the top actor will always do well and fans will always gush about the movie. The category of blindly liking something (movie, anime, manga, character) and thereby supporting the franchise does exist.

 

[TheEnhancedExe]

And Gintama, at least what I've seen of it. I don't even need perfect adaptations or anything, but I would like an adaptation that is at least watchable and not complete shit, but we usually don't even get that watchable adaptation, sadly enough . Gotta love the anime industry. It hasn't been that bad for Jump lately though.

Sadly, what you're saying is true. The first season of Souma for example was really well adapted imo, but season 2 and 3 (apart from the moon festival arc) were really terrible adaptations.

Tbh, I don't get why J.C. Staff decides to adapt the moon festival arc with 3 chapters per episode and then suddenly goes to like 5 chapters per episode if I remember right. I don't even get why they didn't keep the pacing of season 1 in the first place.

I feel like Jump adaptations are either really great, borderline unwatchable or unwatchable. The only thing that imo was somewhere in between was actually Naruto Shippuuden, because for the most part the canon episodes had good pacing and were well animated. There were obviously a few exceptions, for example the first arc was slow paced and the final war had some parts with terrible animation. But apart from that, it was actually watchable imo.

 

[cody]

Sadly, what you're saying is true. The first season of Souma for example was really well adapted imo, but season 2 and 3 (apart from the moon festival arc) were really terrible adaptations.

Tbh, I don't get why J.C. Staff decides to adapt the moon festival arc with 3 chapters per episode and then suddenly goes to like 5 chapters per episode if I remember right. I don't even get why they didn't keep the pacing of season 1 in the first place.

I feel like Jump adaptations are either really great, borderline unwatchable or unwatchable. The only thing that imo was somewhere in between was actually Naruto Shippuuden, because for the most part the canon episodes had good pacing and were well animated. There were obviously a few exceptions, for example the first arc was slow paced and the final war had some parts with terrible animation. But apart from that, it was actually watchable imo.

I very much agree with your statement about Jump adaptations being either really great, borderline unwatchable or unwatchable, because that's how it is. I couldn't possibly watch an episode of early One Piece today for example. But a lot of people would be willing to do that because of nostalgia and they probably let themselves to be blinded by it.

I mean, for example, almost every adaptation from the 90's or the early to mid 2000's for WSJ manga have atrocious/unwatchable anime, with bad pacing, hundreds of episodes of filler, subpar animation and subpar presentation, incomplete stories and the list goes on. From the late 90's and after that It was a time where the transition to digital was taking place and the technology wasn't there yet and neither was the experience, things didn't look quite right or something was really off. Even now when digital has had time to develop, most studios still can't do a proper job because of lack of talent and resources or because of how badly run the anime industry is with problems like scheduling hell and the over solicitation of studios. I'd consider something like Naruto Shippuden unwatchable because of all the fillers and flashbacks, but each person has their own tolerance and standards I guess.

 

[shoyoboyo]

Well we're getting the anime visual tonight so let's wait for that.

The anime will most likely be bad but there's still a possibility that it can still help out the manga a lot. Like TG did.

TG at least had a reputable studio behind it. Gonzo is a dead man walking.

Last time I say this: THere is no such thing as a perfect anime/manga adaption and No such thing as perfect writing with that said its time to give up on perfection and be thankful for what we got. I am happy with any studio to adapt Jump Manga, but if you choose this see it as a negative then its a YOU problem not the studio's fault, Its YOU remember you can ignore this advice and carry on but Just remember if you are expecting a perfect adaption then you are in for a sad future. I hated Black Clover because I was stupid and Listened to other people talking how "Generic" and "Awful" it was but I saw Sharkbait was the only person who like it. There is no such thing as Blindly Liking something it's call being Positive. I don't post much I just Observe each of your comments and seeing a pattern. There is only constant Improvements not Perfection. Enjoy Life and don't take it seriously.

Lmao dude your whole comment is a mess. No one is complaining about not getting a “perfect adaptation”, they’re complaining because a half dead studio is in charge of adapting a well received manga.

Haikyuu, MHA, HxH 2011 might as well be perfect adaptations

I agree on that except 1st season of MHA. Pacing was too slow.

 

[iceemperor]

I very much agree with your statement about Jump adaptations being either really great, borderline unwatchable or unwatchable, because that's how it is. I couldn't possibly watch an episode of early One Piece today for example. But a lot of people would be willing to do that because of nostalgia and they probably let themselves to be blinded by it.

I mean, for example, almost every adaptation from the 90's or the early to mid 2000's for WSJ manga have atrocious/unwatchable anime, with bad pacing, hundreds of episodes of filler, subpar animation and subpar presentation, incomplete stories and the list goes on. From the late 90's and after that It was a time where the transition to digital was taking place and the technology wasn't there yet and neither was the experience, things didn't look quite right or something was really off. Even now when digital has had time to develop, most studios still can't do a proper job because of lack of talent and resources or because of how badly run the anime industry is with problems like scheduling hell and the over solicitation of studios. I'd consider something like Naruto Shippuden unwatchable because of all the fillers and flashbacks, but each person has their own tolerance and standards I guess.

I'd say you're missing out by not watching early OP. I got fully into the series because of the anime, not the other way around. Sure its wacky, but its no where near as bad, or even bad at all, like you're saying, though as you said its probably you. OP actually goes at a decent pace. By episode 45, you're already at Logue Town, which is in the 90s range in terms of chapter count. That actually puts it right on par with Heroaca. It also has limited filler. There is one arc after Logue Town and before Little Garden and it might contradict some future plot points if you're picky but overall it goes by quick. The actual animation is also good. People complain about Toei but the problems actually really start around Marineford or if you're more tolerant, post-skip. Up till then, everything is actually well animated. Stock footage is actually kept to a minimum, there is character animation and climaxes are properly done. Luffy vs. Crocodile was excellent especially with the build up with the music. There were definitely times when you got annoyed but that was more the actual story than overall production. They really made its spirit shine through in the beginning. Stuff was also on point most of the time and even if it was off-model, you couldn't tell unless you purposefully went to find it.

You talk about Shippuden but Naruto Part 1 in the anime was actually fine up till episode 136, its mostly canon with one filler arc and some filler episodes to buy some time. Again, music, character animation, buildup, all of it was great. Ironically, some of the filler was also good though that depends on your tastes.

There's more with series like PoT, which actually had quite a change in character design but its nothing drastic. There is bank but its minimal. Its slightly more limited in comparison to OP and Naruto but that's more due to the fact that the animators didn't know tennis. OP and Naruto had straight fight scenes and so they didn't have to worry too much about form. Crazy form actually works in those series but with tennis, the form is crucial and the animators didn't have that "training". Even then its fine up till the end of the Kanto Tournament.

 

[Tamil]

You can't mention perfect adaptations without mentioning JJBA. JJBA is the best adaptation I've seen. The amount of care that's put into it is remarkable. I'm also a big of the OP's that Kamikaze Douga did for parts 1-3, riddled with great references. Even DiU's OP done by David Pro was excellent and all OP's really caters to the hardcore fans when they add little details that only they would pick up on. Let's not start on the OP changes near the finale for like Za Warudo & Bites Za Dusto.

I like MHA/Haikyuu/HxH 2011 but JJBA is on another league when it comes to adaptation. (I'm not even a huge fan of S1 MHA, so it's like HxH 2011 > Haikyuu > MHA for adaptations.)


Also, where's part 5 at? I'm craving it so badly.

 

[savethecat]

Last time I say this: THere is no such thing as a perfect anime/manga adaption and No such thing as perfect writing with that said its time to give up on perfection and be thankful for what we got. I am happy with any studio to adapt Jump Manga, but if you choose this see it as a negative then its a YOU problem not the studio's fault, Its YOU remember you can ignore this advice and carry on but Just remember if you are expecting a perfect adaption then you are in for a sad future. I hated Black Clover because I was stupid and Listened to other people talking how "Generic" and "Awful" it was but I saw Sharkbait was the only person who like it. There is no such thing as Blindly Liking something it's call being Positive. I don't post much I just Observe each of your comments and seeing a pattern. There is only constant Improvements not Perfection. Enjoy Life and don't take it seriously.

I disagree. Although nothing’s perfect, there are definitely some anime out there where fans widely agree that the anime improves upon the manga

 

[cody]

I'd say you're missing out by not watching early OP. I got fully into the series because of the anime, not the other way around. Sure its wacky, but its no where near as bad, or even bad at all, like you're saying, though as you said its probably you. OP actually goes at a decent pace. By episode 45, you're already at Logue Town, which is in the 90s range in terms of chapter count. That actually puts it right on par with Heroaca. It also has limited filler. There is one arc after Logue Town and before Little Garden and it might contradict some future plot points if you're picky but overall it goes by quick. The actual animation is also good. People complain about Toei but the problems actually really start around Marineford or if you're more tolerant, post-skip. Up till then, everything is actually well animated. Stock footage is actually kept to a minimum, there is character animation and climaxes are properly done. Luffy vs. Crocodile was excellent especially with the build up with the music. There were definitely times when you got annoyed but that was more the actual story than overall production. They really made its spirit shine through in the beginning. Stuff was also on point most of the time and even if it was off-model, you couldn't tell unless you purposefully went to find it.

You talk about Shippuden but Naruto Part 1 in the anime was actually fine up till episode 136, its mostly canon with one filler arc and some filler episodes to buy some time. Again, music, character animation, buildup, all of it was great. Ironically, some of the filler was also good though that depends on your tastes.

There's more with series like PoT, which actually had quite a change in character design but its nothing drastic. There is bank but its minimal. Its slightly more limited in comparison to OP and Naruto but that's more due to the fact that the animators didn't know tennis. OP and Naruto had straight fight scenes and so they didn't have to worry too much about form. Crazy form actually works in those series but with tennis, the form is crucial and the animators didn't have that "training". Even then its fine up till the end of the Kanto Tournament.

Maybe one day I'll give the OP anime another try, at least the earlier parts, but for now I'm fine with manga. I got into OP through the manga and I just adore it so much I'd rather re-read parts of it. I probably got into it much later than you, the thing is, most manga tend to age well but the same can't be said about the anime, it's not like I dislike older anime, I love a lot of older shows, but I guess they need to meet certain requirements for me to justify watching them, especially when there are so many things that I want to watch and read. A lot of times I consider my options, like, is it worth watching the anime when the manga offers a much better experience? Naruto is a weird case, even if the adaptation was fine or even quite good, I can't look past over a ton of filler, it's still a part of the anime, even if I skip it and it tarnishes the anime overall, almost half of the original Naruto anime was filler and almost half of the Shippuden anime was filler as well.

 

[SharkBait]

Sadly, what you're saying is true. The first season of Souma for example was really well adapted imo, but season 2 and 3 (apart from the moon festival arc) were really terrible adaptations.

Tbh, I don't get why J.C. Staff decides to adapt the moon festival arc with 3 chapters per episode and then suddenly goes to like 5 chapters per episode if I remember right. I don't even get why they didn't keep the pacing of season 1 in the first place.

I think people are just using the word terrible wrong at times. I mean, I dont understand how Food Wars is considered terrible. Id rather just say Food Wars s2 and so on are just average with some moments of excitement (well all those panning shots that someone mentioned, cant ever unsee). Just because something is average and unremarkable doesnt make it terrible.

I dont think every single anime possibly can be noteworthy, remarkable, and whatever ones definition of perfect adaptation is. At the end of the day, people will just have to accept that anime can be average and still watching and entertaining enough to follow.

People say HxH2011 is a perfect adaptation, but then you have a segment of people that say the previous anime was better. Or even in the same thing, people saying HxH2011 ruins the Chimera Arc because the narration talks too much (im not kidding do a google search and see how many threads pop up)

People say JJBA is a perfect adaptation, yet you get a whole list of complaints (censoring ruins scenes, voice cast was subpar, literary problems, bad fight animation, sound effects are distracting).

 

[Doughboy]

Yeah, that sounds about right. If you have an eye for flaws or search for them it could hinder your enjoyment of a favorite of yours. You always would want the best animation and art but who knows what allocations for different series receive for their budget. It’s easy to imagine the more profitable and popular the better the budget but probably a lot more than that. Long runners like Naruto you should expect long stretches of bad animation especially in filler arcs but if it’s watchable then I would be content. This era is moving to seasonal but if I think of the big picture when it comes to anime adaptions of manga series I’m always more impressed with the franchises that were either adapted faithfully, had girth regarding the amount of episodes (past 25 episode count), or both.

 

[ChocoBar9]

You can't mention perfect adaptations without mentioning JJBA. JJBA is the best adaptation I've seen. The amount of care that's put into it is remarkable. I'm also a big of the OP's that Kamikaze Douga did for parts 1-3, riddled with great references. Even DiU's OP done by David Pro was excellent and all OP's really caters to the hardcore fans when they add little details that only they would pick up on. Let's not start on the OP changes near the finale for like Za Warudo & Bites Za Dusto.

I like MHA/Haikyuu/HxH 2011 but JJBA is on another league when it comes to adaptation. (I'm not even a huge fan of S1 MHA, so it's like HxH 2011 > Haikyuu > MHA for adaptations.)


Also, where's part 5 at? I'm craving it so badly.

Ironically enough the adaptation for Part 1 and Part 2 main strength comes from he fact that they aren't perfect adaptations since they do edit out the useless bits and highlighting the strongest parts (though the Chariot fight sucked) while Part 3's weakness is that its too faithful so it comes with the same flaws as the manga and of course DiU omits far too much and looks considerably worse due to the higher episode count and no break in between. I'll always love the first season of Jojo for the sheer fact that you know that David Productions, who just so happen to be composed of Gonzo alumni, did not have the talent or the budget for the series but somehow they made it work thanks to strong direction and the aesthetics they added to make the adaptation stand out its another reason why I prefer the 99 adaptation of HxH over the 2011 one because it showcases the difference between an adaptation that makes its source of material stronger versus an adaptation that's only good because the source of material is good.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 15, 2018 ---

I agree on that except 1st season of MHA. Pacing was too slow.

I honestly don't feel the pacing isn't any slower than the average Jump adaptation. The problem with the first season is that it felt a tad too restrained and kinda hinged on how much you cared about Deku as a character.

 

[Nemesis]

About the studios, I had other visions in the past but today I consider a bunch of those most known studios really good, which these different staff can do different works in those anime. Even Toei and Pierrot which are the most criticized in the internet for right and wrong reasons (and a bunch of misinformation sometimes), I began to like because I see talent in their different productions.

With Toei I began to watch Hugtto! Precure and I'm loving so far with it's artstyle, creative expressions and it's animation. From what I saw in the past seasons, it's really great too. Same thing for Kyosou Giga that had the same Izumi Todo team of Precure and that was great. With the DBS and One Piece staff there's also a bunch of talented person working in there and you can see it in different times. With DBS it was the problem of pre-production and One Piece because well, it's a product of 98 just like many other long-running anime in that time.

So, just giving examples, It's more fair to judge an anime by it's staff (and hoping that the planning for the production is good) than to judge just by the studio itself since those productions are pretty different from each other and with different persons working on it. Well, that's just my vision at least.

 

[ChocoBar9]

@cody Before the move to High Definition the OP anime was actually really well done and was without a doubt Toei's best looking Jump adaptation next to Saint Seiya, its really around Thriller Bark did the pacing and production quality took a major nosedive and is where I stopped following it weekly outside a few special episodes.

@Nemesis You should always follow animators instead of studios. Toei is world renowned for a reason and is current productions is largely due to a huge shift in internal staff and shipping all their work to the studio in the Philippines.

 

[Nemesis]

And Gintama, at least what I've seen of it. I don't even need perfect adaptations or anything, but I would like an adaptation that is at least watchable and not complete shit, but we usually don't even get that watchable adaptation, sadly enough . Gotta love the anime industry. It hasn't been that bad for Jump lately though.

Well, Shueisha has to agree with everything be it with them contracting or being contacted for a adaptation so I wouldn't say that it's the anime industry fault since they supervise it and at most of the times, are even part of the committee from their IP. They are definitely the ones with more choice here.

 

[iceemperor]

Haikyuu, MHA, HxH 2011 might as well be perfect adaptations

Its also probably due to that that HxH 2011 really dragged for me during the Chimera Ant arc. There was a stretch of around 9 episodes where the narrator had more lines than the characters. They would narrate everything the character was feeling, even though I could see that on the screen and almost got to a point where it was testing my intelligence. Up till then it was fantastic but once that narrator came in, he would narrate everything. I don't need to be told the minute details of what Welfin is feeling when I can see it in front of me. Overall it was great but it really took away from the experience.

 

[cody]

@ChocoBar9 As I said, maybe I'll consider watching the earlier OP anime some day, but not right now.

@Nemesis I like to look at both studios and staff. Maybe one is lackluster, but the other is more promising, maybe they balance each other out or both are straight up promising. With certain studios I feel like I have higher chances of knowing what to expect because of overall output.

And about the anime industry, it is at fault in my opinion, because of the way it is poorly run and that includes production committees.

Edit: Let's just turn this into a HxH which anime is better debate

 

[Doughboy]

Up till then it was fantastic but once that narrator came in, he would narrate everything. I don't need to be told the minute details of what Welfin is feeling when I can see it in front of me. Overall it was great but it really took away from the experience.

It was hella slow, stuff with Welfin around this part was only real good when it came to his conflict with Bro too. But this was a point among others why I thought yorknew was better. I more wonder if the author will ever touch back on gyro stuff but that’s a topic for another thread.

 

[101nemesis]

I honestly don't feel the pacing isn't any slower than the average Jump adaptation. The problem with the first season is that it felt a tad too restrained and kinda hinged on how much you cared about Deku as a character.

I think the only bit that felt slower in MHA first season is the fact they split the first chapter into 2 episodes.