Discussion Elizabeth

[T25]

It’s not stupid though. I can’t think of a single person that wouldn’t want to make their life easier by just getting some help and saving time and energy. Plus this has already happened beforehand in the past. It was confirmed that individually the sins could’ve handled gray demon Hendrickson 1 on 1, yet they still relied on each other. I mean even if you could beat two indura, who wants to do it by themselves?

Yup can’t say it’s stupid. It bears reason but um why isn’t your explanations for Eli this beneficially simple?

 

[MrSchmitty7]

Yup can’t say it’s stupid. It bears reason but um why isn’t your explanations for Eli this beneficially simple?

Well the problem really is that Eli has actually ascended to a whole new realm when it comes to debates. Things used to be simple, but then as more walls and walls of texts came up we had to keep digging deeper and deeper for more details. Basically it’s just come to a point where we have to over explain ourselves these days. At least that’s my theory

 

[T25]

Well the problem really is that Eli has actually ascended to a whole new realm when it comes to debates. Things used to be simple, but then as more walls and walls of texts came up we had to keep digging deeper and deeper for more details. Basically it’s just come to a point where we have to over explain ourselves these days. At least that’s my theory

You know I actually pretty much agree with you. The thing is opinions come in different degrees and with that perception becomes skewered. For instance, there are those that could hate a character so much that they regard anything the character does as pathetic or the like. And when you have all of these varying degrees of perception being put together to talk....you get a very inconclusive conversation. And quite a bit of insults. Any and all characters are subject to that. It’s just at some places it’s more obvious for this character instead of that. That’s what I think at least.

Eli is one of the obvious ones here. It seems to me that it is a lot of the time the less actiony more moral and emotion driven female characters that take the heat. For no real good reason

 

[MrSchmitty7]

You know I actually pretty much agree with you. The thing is opinions come in different degrees and with that perception becomes skewered. For instance, there are those that could hate a character so much that they regard anything the character does as pathetic or the like. And when you have all of these varying degrees of perception being put together to talk....you get a very inconclusive conversation. And quite a bit of insults. Any and all characters are subject to that. It’s just at some places it’s more obvious for this character instead of that. That’s what I think at least.

Eli is one of the obvious ones here. It seems to me that it is a lot of the time the less actiony more moral and emotion driven female characters that take the heat.

The varying perceptions as you said probably also have to do with the fact that she’s just never given much screen time to show off. A lot of her scenes are often cut short or something else pops up, so if she would just get more feats things would probably be better. I’d like to see her build up more consistency with her power instead of just using it on one or two occasions.

 

[T25]

The varying perceptions as you said probably also have to do with the fact that she’s just never given much screen time to show off. A lot of her scenes are often cut short or something else pops up, so if she would just get more feats things would probably be better. I’d like to see her build up more consistency with her power instead of just using it on one or two occasions.

I almost completely agree. With her current state and it’s progression I really want to see where it goes and how it is maintained as their is a lot unknown about her and her clan in particular which has piqued my interest and that is something I have always looked forward to. While I do believe that her potential has always since the start of the manga been hinted at, it is true that there is little, at the very least by comparison, to make conclusive claims as fact. I don’t like to make claims, I like to establish a realm of possibility, no need to argue for it, and see if it goes above or stays below what I would hope for based on my perception of what I read. Which by the way may change the more times you reread something.

There is only one thing I do not believe I agree with. I do not believe that things will get significantly better should she get more feats. And it would be precisely because of those varying perceptions. Claims of deus ex machina, stupid or boring will always persist. It is impossible to please everyone nor should that ever be what someone tries to do. Heh it’s been years but Naruto comes to mind. Oh well

 

[Inuhanyou123]

^ While true, it will make those voices much more of the minority. The more actions Nakaba gives her, the more evidence and hard fact just comes into play.

The varying perceptions as you said probably also have to do with the fact that she’s just never given much screen time to show off. A lot of her scenes are often cut short or something else pops up, so if she would just get more feats things would probably be better. I’d like to see her build up more consistency with her power instead of just using it on one or two occasions.

I agree. And i apologize if i've been acting aggressive towards people here, i just get really frustrated because it seems like Elie gets no slack regardless of what she's done so far(which i would argue is pretty significant, especially compared to tons of other shounen female leads i could name)

 

[TarXan]

Her ark did nothing to Mael (or Estarossa) because it was non-lethal.

She only intended to displace him, there was no intention or an attempt to hurt him.

The only hint that maybe Elizabeth's ark should've hurt Estarossa is through the AA's comment, but considering how they only saw him escape the ark, and not witness the entire situation, means their comment isn't that credit worthy.

As for the AM slap. I believe Elizabeth does have the power to hurt Meliodas, but it would never work in battle because he would just outspeed her, dodge it, block it even, or full counter.

But still, a weakened Elizabeth minimally hurting a 142k passive demon is something to consider before you go ''lol 30k Elizabeth''.



You mean how Derriere ''cheap shotted Elizabeth''?

But yet everyone is quick to agree with that feat and acknowledge it as proof of Elizabeth being ''weak''.

Stop with the exceptions

No Elizabeth cheap shorted Meliodas as well, he wasn’t expecting her to attack

I mean she has 0 feats that gives people incentive to call her strong

Nobody think she’s weak, we’re just against the idea of her being Commandment or AA level until further notice

 

[T25]

No Elizabeth cheap shorted Meliodas as well, he wasn’t expecting her to attack

I mean she has 0 feats that gives people incentive to call her strong

Nobody think she’s weak, we’re just against the idea of her being Commandment or AA level until further notice

“There is no incentive to call her strong.”
.....Why?

 

[Gojo Satoru]

I grew up watching mainly shounen manga/anime and I've noticed the strong lack of attention from writers the females get.Also I've noticed that the "White Mages/Bards" Role always go to the females especially the main or one of the main females.

Elizabeth is an example of a female character given the role of a healer in a shounen so right away I expected her to be written poorly based on previous experiences in shounen but surprisingly she's grown quite differently than I expected.

Looking at Sakura and Orhime from Naruto and Bleach respectively they share many simliarities with Elizabeth but in 273 chapters and counting versus 700/683 chapters she's done more than both those characters combined.

She is the female healer I've always wanted plus she's the lead female making it even sweeter.So as a result she's easily my favourite character no matter what happens latter on in the series.

So whether or not she's top tier or fodder (well no) put some respect on my girls name please

 

[Inuhanyou123]

No Elizabeth cheap shorted Meliodas as well, he wasn’t expecting her to attack

I mean she has 0 feats that gives people incentive to call her strong

Nobody think she’s weak, we’re just against the idea of her being Commandment or AA level until further notice

That doesnt make any sense. "Im not saying she's weak im saying she's not strong!"

We've seen plenty of her magical feats to imply that she is on par with commandments at the very least(and many of them show she is actually stronger)

For starters, you have the terms confused.

Unlike elizabeth who has been implied to have weak defense and durability(hence why the term "cheap shot" even became relevant in this conversation, because she can be easily hurt without putting up a magical defense) Meliodas has never shown that. EVER. Infact most of his power comes from being a tank and simply slicing through whatever is in his way regardless of what it is(including the Ark that he was hit with by Jelamet which did almost nothing to him even when he was at 30k, he simply let it happen)

Why do you think i keep calling Elizabeth a "glass canon" almost exclusively? Because her magic has been shown quite clearly as insanely OP far more than any of her other stats

There is no evidence for what you claim about there not being evidence of her being strong. Its simply the case that you are ignoring it.

 

[T25]

I wonder how much this hypothetical would be mocked insulted and ridiculed but ever since around the first time I saw this

I’ve wondered if there was a possibility that the apparent extra four wings were in someway related to the four graces. For instance: abilities of her original magic power that had been stripped from her by her mother to give to four who she deemed would use it the way she wanted. Idle imagination but a very interesting thing I have thought of for a pretty long while now. Seems cool I think.

 

[ShadowHeart]

I wonder how much this hypothetical would be mocked insulted and ridiculed but ever since around the first time I saw this

I’ve wondered if there was a possibility that the apparent extra four wings were in someway related to the four graces. For instance: abilities of her original magic power that had been stripped from her by her mother to give to four who she deemed would use it the way she wanted. Idle imagination but a very interesting thing I have thought of for a pretty long while now. Seems cool I think.

No the Graces clearly came from the SD herself. Or are you saying Elizabeth is originally far stronger than any non God character?

 

[T25]

No the Graces clearly came from the SD herself. Or are you saying Elizabeth is originally far stronger than any non God character?

Did I? Is it not an interesting thought? Furthermore we have neither seen nor read anything said from her at all. What is so clear about that I ask you?

 

[ShadowHeart]

Did I? Is it not an interesting thought? Furthermore we have neither seen nor read anything said from her at all. What is so clear about that I ask you?

Yes if you think Elizabeth had 8 Wings and the 4 Grace as powers. The fact Elizabeth hasn't shown anything resembling 4 Graces like powers. She doesn't even seem to know about the Graces lol. How about the SD appearance? Or Ludociel mention the Graces are like the Commandments?

 

[Shutensatsu]

I wonder how much this hypothetical would be mocked insulted and ridiculed but ever since around the first time I saw this

I’ve wondered if there was a possibility that the apparent extra four wings were in someway related to the four graces. For instance: abilities of her original magic power that had been stripped from her by her mother to give to four who she deemed would use it the way she wanted. Idle imagination but a very interesting thing I have thought of for a pretty long while now. Seems cool I think.

Did I? Is it not an interesting thought?

Nope not at all.

It’s 1000% complete and utter nonsense not even worth talking about.

That’s even worse than the stuff Otaku writes about Eli.

We’ve sunk to the point that members of the Eli squad are arguing that the 4 graces are actually Eli’s powers now so she can be strong?

Really?

Congrats.

You’ve surpassed him.

 

[T25]

Nope not at all.

It’s 1000% complete and utter nonsense not even worth talking about.

That’s even worse than the stuff Otaku writes about Eli.

We’ve sunk to the point that members of the Eli squad are arguing that the 4 graces are actually Eli’s powers now so she can be strong?

Really?

Congrats.

You’ve surpassed him.

So you are the first huh. Very well. I made no such argument. I wrote what I wrote. I used words. Read them. And respond with more “proper” critique and analysis not insult. It helps alleviate arguments I believe. That is all.

Yes if you think Elizabeth had 8 Wings and the 4 Grace as powers. The fact Elizabeth hasn't shown anything resembling 4 Graces like powers. She doesn't even seem to know about the Graces lol. How about the SD appearance? Or Ludociel mention the Graces are like the Commandments?

I presented a hypothetical I thought was interesting. I am in no way defending it. There is no point to that and I see no way to justify it. And I do not wish for anyone to do so. Pure speculative imagination. I did not say Eli was anything here. The 8 wings were there. It is not a matter of what you or anyone “thinks”. Wether that depiction had or had no meaning is yet to be seen. Because of that, I wonder.

Eli, I believe, has not made a single comment on the graces. What she does and doesn’t know about them is not something we know. So your comment in that regard was illogical and of a more insulting nature towards the character. Am I wrong? She also has a notable amount of magic power that we have seen very little of. As a character that interests me, that breeds speculation of what sort and degree of magic she has. That’s it: curiosity. The same curiosity everyone has for mael, zeldris, Merlin, any character.

We know very little about their side so I do not understand how most rebuttals to me are assumptions presented as fact? Not once has it been stated that the graces were half of the SDs power yet because there military equivalent was of that nature it is an undisputed “fact” presented on this forumn and used as a fact of justification. It doesn’t matter if it turns out true, the fact that it is used as fact does not seem right. Is that wrong? Because it hasn’t been depicted yet, I merely wonder.

 

[Inuhanyou123]

I wonder how much this hypothetical would be mocked insulted and ridiculed but ever since around the first time I saw this

I’ve wondered if there was a possibility that the apparent extra four wings were in someway related to the four graces. For instance: abilities of her original magic power that had been stripped from her by her mother to give to four who she deemed would use it the way she wanted. Idle imagination but a very interesting thing I have thought of for a pretty long while now. Seems cool I think.

I actually forgot about those extra 6 wings when she activated her power, but it makes way more sense that they symbolize her power left untapped in line with her mother's number

Just that panel alone...do people really think Elie is weak when with just with her activation alone she is able to knock pretty much everyone in the area back?

 

[T25]

I actually forgot about those extra 6 wings when she activated her power, but it makes way more sense that they symbolize her power left untapped in line with her mother's number

Just that panel alone...do people really think Elie is weak when with just with her activation alone she is able to knock pretty much everyone in the area back?

That panel is either downplayed or ignored. I do not use it to say that she is at “this level.” I use it to say that there may very well be something more to and a degree of power she has that we are as of yet unaware. That’s it. To me, she is a very interesting character to think about. So I do.

 

[Inuhanyou123]

That panel is either downplayed or ignored. I do not use it to say that she is at “this level.” I use it to say that there may very well be something more to and a degree of power she has that we are as of yet unaware. That’s it. To me, she is a very interesting character to think about. So I do.

Well, for my part, i do think she is on that level. there's nothing else to take from her being able to affect beings "of that level" unless she is "on that level" IMO

 

[Tragicdeath]

Well, for my part, i do think she is on that level. there's nothing else to take from her being able to affect beings "of that level" unless she is "on that level" IMO

Oh yeah youre right those wings. Its so gigantic no way shes just an average jane those wings are huge. Do you honestly believe the bigger their wings are the stronger they are? Could you please explain the logic behind those wings, Im curious how in the world you guys came up with that idea.