Games Mafia Game 66 - Hunter x Hunter: End game

[Copy Panda]

Player Roles
~

 

[Arjuna]

Vandred suspected Seraph right,did he pinpoint anyone else.Or maybe the Janitor wants to frame Seraph

 

[James Rye]

Why confuse Townies later if you can confuse them on day 1 making all role claims being "you killed that role in night 1 and now act like it!!!" for day 1?

 

[shinobi]

[USER=57068]@shinobi If he really put in a 3rd BK then Panda is bloody insane. Can you imagine the chaos of 3 redirects every night if all 3 happened to get that action? xD[/USER]

Yeah I can, good luck trying to make sense of anything
And you're kind of super lucky, still being alive, using your role and having results too.

 

[James Rye]

Vandred suspected Seraph right,did he pinpoint anyone else.Or maybe the Janitor wants to frame Seraph

Maybe Vandred was also a Traitor, whenever naive or real, and was told he had to contact Seraph? After all if you think about it... it is really strange that kato said to keep an eye ONLY on Gry. Normally a traitor gets a whole bunch of names, either random as naive or real as real traitor. But kato told us of only one single name instead of a bunch of people. I think that could be a clue that we really got a bunch of traitors in this game and each traitor was told only one name instead of a bunch of.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Aug 15, 2018 ---

Yeah I can, good luck trying to make sense of anything
And you're kind of super lucky, still being alive, using your role and having results too.

Well, if we got 2 small Mafias or a medium big mafia and a 3rd role then it isn't that unlikely. Aka killing me would be risky if a bodyguard guarded me or a doc protected me which might be what happeend last night and the ??? was a bodyguard. There is also the possibility of no escorts, so they had no chance to block me. And ofc the crazy possibility of a 3rd BK who redirected or blocked a block or kill on me. Or ofc Mafias/3rd role believing me to be a trap to waste their kill action on so they didn't targeted me at all. Those are the only explanations I have for why I wasn't blocked last night.

As for luck: With 4 dead townies the number of players Mafia can hide with is getting smaller by the day. Sooner or later they will accidentally kill each other as well. Maybe the ??? even was a Mafia from the not-Janitor faction for all we know. I guess I just got really lucky with my targets.

 

[Arjuna]

Maybe Vandred was also a Traitor, whenever naive or real, and was told he had to contact Seraph? After all if you think about it... it is really strange that kato said to keep an eye ONLY on Gry. Normally a traitor gets a whole bunch of names, either random as naive or real as real traitor. But kato told us of only one single name instead of a bunch of people. I think that could be a clue that we really got a bunch of traitors in this game and each traitor was told only one name instead of a bunch of.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Aug 15, 2018 ---

Well, if we got 2 small Mafias or a medium big mafia and a 3rd role then it isn't that unlikely. Aka killing me would be risky if a bodyguard guarded me or a doc protected me which might be what happeend last night and the ??? was a bodyguard. There is also the possibility of no escorts, so they had no chance to block me. And ofc the crazy possibility of a 3rd BK who redirected or blocked a block or kill on me. Or ofc Mafias/3rd role believing me to be a trap to waste their kill action on so they didn't targeted me at all. Those are the only explanations I have for why I wasn't blocked last night.

As for luck: With 4 dead townies the number of players Mafia can hide with is getting smaller by the day. Sooner or later they will accidentally kill each other as well. Maybe the ??? even was a Mafia from the not-Janitor faction for all we know. I guess I just got really lucky with my targets.

Well that's difficult.

 

[Demonspeed]

Why confuse Townies later if you can confuse them on day 1 making all role claims being "you killed that role in night 1 and now act like it!!!" for day 1?

Town is already in the dark D1. I think hiding a Janitor can help. Especially if he is with a Det. When someone is killed by a Janitor Mafia can't learn his role as well. But with a Det who did his job N1, it can be used for rather safe claims.

 

[GrySun]

If we go by that mass Traitor theory, hardy could still be innocent himself. Depending on how you define it.

The Traitor counts as a non-Townie for Detective investigations, as well as for Mason/Mentee recruitment.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Aug 15, 2018 ---

Maybe Vandred was also a Traitor, whenever naive or real, and was told he had to contact Seraph? After all if you think about it... it is really strange that kato said to keep an eye ONLY on Gry. Normally a traitor gets a whole bunch of names, either random as naive or real as real traitor. But kato told us of only one single name instead of a bunch of people. I think that could be a clue that we really got a bunch of traitors in this game and each traitor was told only one name instead of a bunch of.

Was wondering the same, if he had a list why only say me? Maybe he didn't want to ruin the game by sharing them all, thinking he was a real traitor? I don't think everyone would get a single name, that'd be hard to work with, especially if that name dies very early. And even if that person died as mafia they still wouldn't know if they are naive or not because it's a randomized name. Have to be more names. I'm sure almost everyone is hiding having a secondary role.

 

[Demonspeed]

Never realized the Traitor role could be so annoying...

 

[Holt]

Whichever way I see it, there's no benefit to not using janitor especially considering this was a special game starting with a night phase. But then, not like we can completely rule out that possibility. Atm though, I'm not sure we can get too far on that line of thought. We have 2 BKs dead already without revealing targets afaik, thinking of two major possiblities
1- Mafia decided not to use Janitor N1 for whatever reason. Odd though. Would either be some sophisticated plot or perhaps an oversight?
2- Mafia did used Janitor but got blocked...but there were still two kills regardless. Though tbh, the possibilities here are much. Could've been an insane doc, could've been a PGO, or could be 3 killing parties. But only 2 deaths tonight so perhaps not 3 killers.

Going off both nights though, I think the more probable option is that they simply didn't use the Janitor. Wonder why

 

[James Rye]

For the rule not to share 2nd roles if killed at night tehre does need to be a lot of 2nd roles to justify such a role.

What were your hints, @GrySun and do you want to give more hints or outright tell us your role? Same for you @Hardy

 

[Farfalla]

Ok, so here's what we have:
- 2 kills per night;
- 1 kill by mafia for sure (Janitor);
- A dead traitor telling us to be aware of GrySun;
- A claimed detective getting innocent on GrySun;
- A claimed detective getting guilty on Hardy.

So, before N2, James alrdy claimed to be detective, the result he got on Gry and that he would investigate Hardy. Both Gry and Hardy voted for Kato instead, indicating they weren't really alarmed by this. Not only that, but nothing happened to James at night. Those are the things I'm considering right now:
- If James is a real deal, Kato could be a naive traitor and had Gry (among other names) in his list. That would make Hardy either mafia or sane traitor. The sane traitor option is more likely, 'cause I don't think that Hardy would let James freely investigate him, trusting that he could discredit him later (some people always feel discouraged to lynch a det).
- If James is a real deal, Kato could be a sane traitor and had Gry (among other names) in his list, which makes Gry mafia for sure. That would make Hardy mafia boss, townie or naive traitor - if he's one. I wonder if Gry would be overconfident to let James take his chances of investigating another mafia now (so both would look like townies), considering that Kato already incriminated him as well.
- If James isn't a real deal, he's setting one of those two up (or both), but I wonder what he'd have to gain with that. If we'd lynch both Gry and Hardy and not find a mafia, James would have 2 days top to live as a liar. On the other hand, he already mentioned the "everybody is a traitor" hypothesis, maybe to later explain why both could die as townies and could still claim to be a real townie det.
In my opinion, the best we could do now is to squeeze Gry and Hardy to get from them what are they, if they are traitors, what are their lists and then make a decision on how to vote, 'cause imo we still have too little to make a call. I guess we can even ask James a bit more. Since he came up with this multiple traitors theory, he might be one as well - and that could be what he's basing his investigations on. If he's a real deal, that's relevant for us.
So, @GrySun @JamesRye @Hardy care to share to us more about your roles and traitor lists, if you have one?
Also, I wonder why Aizen and Vandred were killed... Gonna look for Erin's list and check their claim.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Aug 15, 2018 ---

@James Rye

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 15, 2018 ---

Well it's at least something to go in. For now just gonna keep an open mind. I don't get why the janitor wasn't used N1? Doesn't fit. There's also a possibility that he was used but blocked? that's makes things rather complicated if so...as I can't get why he wasn't used

What happened to us again when you were Janitor? I recall we have you hidden for a while, don't recall what led us to that.

Maybe Vandred was also a Traitor, whenever naive or real, and was told he had to contact Seraph? After all if you think about it... it is really strange that kato said to keep an eye ONLY on Gry. Normally a traitor gets a whole bunch of names, either random as naive or real as real traitor. But kato told us of only one single name instead of a bunch of people. I think that could be a clue that we really got a bunch of traitors in this game and each traitor was told only one name instead of a bunch of.

If Kato had only one name in his list, that doesn't tell us much about Gry's aligment either. Panda alrdy had a lone mafia in a game of his.
Plus, Kato refused to share his targets and result. Could have kept the rest of his list to himself as well, not meaning that Gry was alone there.

 

[GrySun]

Whichever way I see it, there's no benefit to not using janitor especially considering this was a special game starting with a night phase. But then, not like we can completely rule out that possibility. Atm though, I'm not sure we can get too far on that line of thought. We have 2 BKs dead already without revealing targets afaik, thinking of two major possiblities
1- Mafia decided not to use Janitor N1 for whatever reason. Odd though. Would either be some sophisticated plot or perhaps an oversight?
2- Mafia did used Janitor but got blocked...but there were still two kills regardless. Though tbh, the possibilities here are much. Could've been an insane doc, could've been a PGO, or could be 3 killing parties. But only 2 deaths tonight so perhaps not 3 killers.

Going off both nights though, I think the more probable option is that they simply didn't use the Janitor. Wonder why

No that's the least likely option. At N0 you would use your Janitor, it's even more perfect than doing it N1 for usual games. This to me is confirmation we have 3 killers, and the one with the Janitor didn't fail this time. I'm calling either a block or a doctor protected the right target.

Would say 2 mafia groups and one third party SK, maybe with special powers on that one.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Aug 15, 2018 ---

For the rule not to share 2nd roles if killed at night tehre does need to be a lot of 2nd roles to justify such a role.

What were your hints, @GrySun and do you want to give more hints or outright tell us your role? Same for you @Hardy

There's quite a lot I could say actually But I don't know if it's a good idea to do it. Should wait for others to come first and say what they think.

 

[Holt]

If we go by that mass Traitor theory, hardy could still be innocent himself. Depending on how you define it.

No Gry

• Traitor (Mafia): The Traitor can only be assigned to a Townie role, but he can only win with the Mafia team. This secondary role lets the player know the names of all mafias at the start of the game, and if the player is targeted by the mafia with a successful killing action he gets recruited and becomes a normal Mafia Member. The Traitor counts as a non-Townie for Detective investigations, as well as for Mason/Mentee recruitment. NEW

• Naive Traitor (Townie): The Naive Traitor can only be assigned to a Townie role. This secondary role lets the player get the names of random players at the start of the game and is told that's the Mafia. He is also told that he can only win with the Mafia and that he can be recruited by them. However the Mafia can't recruit him(unless his primary role allows it) and his win condition depends on his primary role. The Naive Traitor otherwise counts as a Townie for Detective investigations, as well as for Mason/Mentee recruitment. NEW

 

[GrySun]

So, before N2, James alrdy claimed to be detective, the result he got on Gry and that he would investigate Hardy. Both Gry and Hardy voted for Kato instead, indicating they weren't really alarmed by this.

This is the same reasoning why I'm not jumping on hardy right away. He was going hard on James all day, then went to Kato despite a Det claim, and despite James calling out he's targetting him next night he was still left untouched(or so it would appear, is James the type of person to fake a result if he were blocked?).

On the other hand, he already mentioned the "everybody is a traitor" hypothesis, maybe to later explain why both could die as townies and could still claim to be a real townie det.

And this is concerning me as well. If it's really the kinda game we're in, Dets would be largely useless, or it'd even be easy to fake claim it. Since James was suspected the day before he may have thought he needs to come with a Guilty next day, regardless if he's real det, real det who got blocked, or a fake det.

So, @GrySun @JamesRye @Hardy care to share to us more about your roles and traitor lists, if you have one?
Also, I wonder why Aizen and Vandred were killed... Gonna look for Erin's list and check their claim.

I'll say more later, but still thinking about it. Best when more people have come and given us their "shocked reaction" to the night deaths and their comments.

As for those two.. Vand only went hard on Seraph I think. I don't remember another person he went for nearly as much. And he got the Janitor treatment too. Aizen played a very normal game, and very unremarkable. Just checked Erin's list, he claimed a passive role. Which is confusing that they'd go for him instead of all the night active claimed roles.

 

[Erinyes]

Good we can lynch him.

theres a various reasons one could be revealed as guilty or not (sanity things). also being a traitor or a miller can give wrong results results when investigated. Also dont take someone's claim being a det and who survived the night after such a claim as a face value, im not saying hes lying, though, i dont know but its a game of deception.

 

[GrySun]

No Gry

?

If he's naive traitor we wouldn't even have this result, unless they put naive traitor on a miller

 

[Holt]

What happened to us again when you were Janitor? I recall we have you hidden for a while, don't recall what led us to that.

I actually can't recall but it wasn't by choice iirc. Think got blocked initially? Or we suspected I would be blocked I think.

No that's the least likely option. At N0 you would use your Janitor, it's even more perfect than doing it N1 for usual games. This to me is confirmation we have 3 killers, and the one with the Janitor didn't fail this time. I'm calling either a block or a doctor protected the right target.

Would say 2 mafia groups and one third party SK, maybe with special powers on that one.

Indeed the setup is perfect for that. And yeah tbh, the mafia would have nothing to gain from not using the janitor early. Still though, can't exactly rule it out. But not sure the benefits are sufficient. At most, there's a little chaos trying to figure out why a janitor didn't kill. Or there could be some other plan to frame someone eventually? Those are far-fetched though.

If we're assuming 3 parties, 2 successful night blocks is much too optimistic for me

 

[Erinyes]

well actually if katos and gry s theory about traitor is true, that might ruin the whole investigation system

 

[Farfalla]

If James isn't bs'ing and he found a traitor instead of a mafia, that one has to be put down as well, since the person is doomed to join the mafia sooner or later, specially after being exposed to them like that. The thing is... if we have at least 2 killing parties, would the hosts allow the traitors to join the "wrong" group?

So here are the hints people gave:
- Aizen as Phinks -> passive role.
- Vandred as Leorio -> Something related to a meme role in a game he hosted.
- GrySun as Killua -> never had this role before, but used it in some of the games he hosted.
- Hardy as Kurapika -> Active role, pretty sure its the 1st time he got it, not a doctor.

We have 5 active claims in that list, including Hardy and James. Why would the non townies go for 2 passive claims? Why wondering what Van could be, someone mentioned witch here. Why would they go for those? I rly don't think their killers were trying to get rid or their roles - unless they had a detective (in this case, the team with the janitor) and found out Van's role was something relevant. Why risk killing Aizen though which could be a freeman but also a bomb, bp, jesus or wtv? Those targets look super off to me, specially Aizen. Maybe they wanted to setup Seraph with Van's kill (which seems to be a bomb), but maybe the mafia also saw the second rule the same way James did and wondered if Van was a traitor that had Seraph in his list and tried to recruit him...

 

[Holt]

?

If he's naive traitor we wouldn't even have this result, unless they put naive traitor on a miller

?

If he's naive traitor we wouldn't even have this result, unless they put naive traitor on a miller

I was replying to you saying he could possibly be innocent with the mass traitor thing. James got guilty on him, him being traitor will not change dets result on him unless he was a real traitor. I thought you were implying traitors show as guilty. Was just clarifying that it won't show guilty if he's not a real traitor