Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Tarot]

 

[Nemesis]

Shonen magazine has never invested in either Battle shonen or jump, so much so that the best known are just fairy tail and rave that are from mashima and nanatsu from taizai. Even the sunday has more successful battle shonen than the magazine even though it also does not invest as much.

I didn't say it does, just that magazine is more varied in genre in comparison.

 

[Halloween]

Are you incapable of reading or did you quote the wrong post? My entire point is the big 3 is a western invention and that bleach''s Japanese legacy is exaggerated by western fandom.

I'm responding to your initial post on the subject. I hadn't read your follow-up posts, since I read oldest to newest, in that order.

Still, you're debating against arguments nobody was making. Bleach was never the big 3 in Japan, but no one ever said that, because it's literally just a title for western popularity.

 

[WyldViolet]

I'm responding to your initial post on the subject. I hadn't read your follow-up posts, since I read oldest to newest, in that order.

Still, you're debating against arguments nobody was making. Bleach was never the big 3 in Japan, but no one ever said that, because it's literally just a title for western popularity.

Stivie did. I was correcting him.
Also clearly you misread my initial post because I've never argued in favor of the existence of the "big 3".

 

[Avok]

I feel we have this debate like once a month.

 

[TyVip]

Ziga was part of the Shibuya promotion too, along with its batch

 

[Stivie]

Stivie did. I was correcting him.
Also clearly you misread my initial post because I've never argued in favor of the existence of the "big 3".

regardless of who invented the term "big 3", or his personal taste, there is no denying that there was a time when bleach was a hit in the jump, along with naruto and one piece (not the same proportion of them of course).

 

[101nemesis]

Ziga was part of the Shibuya promotion too, along with its batch

Wow. That looks pretty neat tho.

regardless of who invented the term "big 3", or his personal taste, there is no denying that there was a time when bleach was a hit in the jump, along with naruto and one piece (not the same proportion of them of course).

TBH, while "big 3" is a western term which doesn't apply to japanese market, there is now a strong reason to stick to it because lets face it, in the span of 6 years (1997 for OP, 99 for Naruto and 2001 for Bleach), Jump got 3 series that would eventually become their 1st, 3rd and 6th best selling series of all time worldwide.

Yeah, everyone can conclude that Bleach was not close to OP or Naruto in terms of popularity. But there's no denying the commercial reception it got and the popularity explosion it experienced. It maintained it's level of popularity far longer than Prince of Tennis (its closest rival when it comes to initial print numbers) especially when taking into account how long it lasted. It's initial 3 movies sold more DVD/BR than Naruto. It got massive amounts of games, anime that lasted 360 episodes and after its end even got a live action movie (albeit it one that flopped despite being decent).

Also ranks don't really tell the whole story. Everyone can easily conclude that MHA is more important to WSJ in this era of Jump than BC or KNY (both important but not nearly as important) but those latter 2 have ranked consistently better than MHA even during MHA's growth sprout. So rankings don't really mean much as long as it stays in the top.

 

[Xzone]

Also ranks don't really tell the whole story. Everyone can easily conclude that MHA is more important to WSJ in this era of Jump than BC or KNY (both important but not nearly as important) but those latter 2 have ranked consistently better than MHA even during MHA's growth sprout. So rankings don't really mean much as long as it stays in the top.

Yeah, I was thinking the same.
Using "other series ranked better than bleach so you are overestimating their popularity in japan" seems like a lame argument.

 

[Tamil]

Top 3 manga in WSJ "History" that spans from 1968-2007 (top 3 manga of every half year)



Would be cool if it was updated.

And while we're at it I think I posted this before in another thread but here is the Top 20 Shonen Jump Anime TV Rating Ranking (more like top 8 b/c I think his other video got taken down)

Other Shonen Jump Anime Rating
Tottemo!! Luckyman (best) 14.0% (average) 10.0%
Yu-Gi-Oh (best) 8.7% (average) 5.7%
Saint Seiya (best)13.2% (average) 9.4%
Hunter × Hunter (best) 12.9%
The Prince of Tennis (best) 12.5% (average) 6.9%
Hikaru no Go (best) 12.1%
BLEACH (average) 5.3%
NARUTO (average) 8.0%
Jungle King Tar-chan (best) 13.4% (average) 10.9%
Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo (average) 7.0%
Eyeshield 21 (average) 8.1%

A complete & updated list would be nice if EasyLove (I don't rmbr your username here in MH) can do a video on WSJ TV Anime rankings of all time one day like you did with the top 61 Best Selling Anime.

 

[Rain Spectre]

To throw my hand into this debate, I think Big 3 is a valid term since, from a cultural perspective, nothing really touches the trinity of discussion that OP, Naruto and Bleach formed together.

Also, seriously? Luckyman was that successful?

 

[Nemesis]

Yeah, I was thinking the same.
Using "other series ranked better than bleach so you are overestimating their popularity in japan" seems like a lame argument.

Yup, the TOC argument is bullshit for the most part considering that it's more a promotional thing from the editorial. Bleach was in lower rankings because the editorial wasn't promoting it like it did before but the series still was one of the best-selling manga on the magazine at it's time.

Same can be true for Toriko which was up there on the TOC, being along Naruto and OP on covers and having crossovers but it wasn't bigger than Bleach.

Which is why I can't fathom when people make the argument about Dr Stone being bigger than MHA because it's up there on the TOC. When in reality, it's only selling better than Hinomaru, Chainsaw Man and Yuna.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Yup, the TOC argument is bullshit for the most part considering that it's more a promotional thing from the editorial. Bleach was in lower rankings because the editorial wasn't promoting it like it did before but the series still was one of the best-selling manga on the magazine at it's time.

Same can be true for Toriko which was up there on the TOC, being along Naruto and OP on covers and having crossovers but it wasn't bigger than Bleach.

Which is why I can't fathom when people make the argument about Dr Stone being bigger than MHA because it's up there on the TOC. When in reality, it's only selling better than Hinomaru, Chainsaw Man and Yuna.

The fact that people is still believe that "TOC = Popularity" myth is flat out unbelievable to me.

 

[101nemesis]

Yup, the TOC argument is bullshit for the most part considering that it's more a promotional thing from the editorial. Bleach was in lower rankings because the editorial wasn't promoting it like it did before but the series still was one of the best-selling manga on the magazine at it's time.

Same can be true for Toriko which was up there on the TOC, being along Naruto and OP on covers and having crossovers but it wasn't bigger than Bleach.

Which is why I can't fathom when people make the argument about Dr Stone being bigger than MHA because it's up there on the TOC. When in reality, it's only selling better than Hinomaru, Chainsaw Man and Yuna.

I agree about Toriko and I had no idea some considered Dr. Stone to be bigger than MHA, which honestly is just stupid.

That said, here's the thing. Bleach's popularity did go down tho when it's rank was down. Fullbring arc was poorly received and it showed with how the ranks and sales fell. I'm the biggest Bleach fan (even have a tattoo on my entire left forearm) but it's true. So I'd say the ranks themselves don't matter but I do believe their general placement probably signifies how much of buzz that series is bringing to the magazine. Although should be taken with a grain of salt and is not a documentary, Bakuman referenced this as well in many instances, the bit about the placements in the TOC.

When Bleach's final arc became really interesting somewhere between the range of chapters 490-520 (the chapters were so much shit happened that the fandom was going CRAZY), the ranks went back up again and was averaging a lot better. I remember this because I used to track the ranks of series back then (instead of studying for my masters but that's besides the point). Even the sales of the volume around those chapters went up 10-20k week on week when compared to the previous volumes in that arc. And I believe it's because the buzz around the series shot up around those chapters with better reception overall.

Again, with THAT said, it's very easy for the editors to give false impressions of something doing well by placing it on top. It's why ranks are not a great source of popularity measure.
I'm not denying what you're saying or anything. I'm just saying that there is a certain truth to the TOC placements themselves and not the ranks but also agree that it can be easily manipulated to give false impressions.

 

[anime64]

this is getting boring guys
let's talk about the new big 3 MHA BC and samurai 8

 

[101nemesis]

this is getting boring guys
let's talk about the new big 3 MHA BC and samurai 8

Nah mate. It's Dr. Stone, WNL and Samurai 8

 

[Rain Spectre]

Nah mate. It's Dr. Stone, WNL and Samurai 8

Nah mate. It's Soma, Hinomaru and Yuuna.

 

[savethecat]

New Big 3 is

Ole Golazo
Ne0;lation

Final spot is up in the air between U19 and Red Sprite

 

[SharkBait]

Ziga was part of the Shibuya promotion too, along with its batch

Im glad our beloved Ziga is so well remembered here.

 

[Rain Spectre]

A question I have, is it standard for Jump to launch a new batch of series after the last series in the prior batch hit 8 chapters?